WesternRacing

The goal was to restore the design of the course, specifically the green complexes, which had been changed over time. It wasn’t to replicate the turf conditions of years gone by.

Yes, and my contribution to it is reminding everyone that the PIF doesn’t care about the economics of LIV, so trying to dissect said economics and search for a strategy or a method to the madness is is a fools errand.

Except they’re making less money in the U.S. than they are internationally. Their best attended event has been Adelaide. I continue to contend that talking about economics related to LIV is meaningless, as they don’t care about the economics of their league. I’d say the same about strategy, as the purpose of a business strategy is typically to maximize profitability. LIV failed at its initial business plan. What it’s doing now is less about pivots or strategy and more about simply continued existence and filling space on their calendar. If their decision to enter the South African market was about ‘strategy’, they should fire whoever came up with said ‘strategy’.

I like the thin prong but it’s a bit heavy and I agree about the ball marker. No need for that. I love the simple black plastic ones with the thin prong. Unfortunately, they’re impossible to find except at courses that buy them wholesale. The ones available to consumers seem to always have the prong that widens near the base, which does way too much damage to the green. Our club switched to the crappy ones and it’s had a definite negative effect on the greens. I’ve mentioned it to our pros but nobody seems to care.

The problem is there’s no money in serving most of the rest of the world. The U.S. is far and away the largest golf market in the world. If you can’t make it here, you’re going to be a small player at best, essentially something akin to the DPWT or the AsiaTour, neither of which is a highly valuable professional tour. Is LIV’s brilliant pivot from trying to be the premier golf tour worldwide to instead being a massively money losing international tour targeting primarily the Asia Pacific region? Is that really a winning strategy, in any use of the word ‘winning’ other than when it was uttered by a drunken Charlie Sheen?

A rapidly growing business selling 400k units at an average sale price of over $500 and you can’t squarely get back to a $200 million valuation? You don’t think a rapidly growing business with strong margins would be worth more than 1x forward revenue? Again, just based on what the founder said, they sold their equity for what appears to be a king’s ransom. It’s laughable for people to speculate that things don’t add up and that the deal is less valuable than what’s been quoted. There’s no way I would have advised LAB founders to take anything close to only 1x revenue. I was a partner in a similar margin, lower growth business that we sold for 3x revenue to private equity three years ago. Given LAB’s growth, I’d be looking at north of 3x revenue. Even Acushnet trades at 2x revenue and while it has good margins, its revenue growth is minimal to negative. LAB is the hottest product in golf; no way the founders just gave it away.

And you made a comment about whether he’ll be engaged in the business. His perception of control and his newfound wealth are relevant to that discussion. But thanks for the volunteer forum moderation. Always a gift.

Hmmm, from a cost and range perspective, yes. From an overall design perspective, no. Have you seen the interiors on some of the Chinese EVs? It’s an oversimplification to assume China is making vastly superior, or inferior, products. What they are doing is subsidizing manufacturing so that they can flood the market with cheaper cars.

Agreed, but that’s production, not product. There is still often a difference between the average Western designed and spec’d product that is manufactured in China and a product that is fully designed and built in China. Design and build quality still varies dramatically depending upon the product you’re talking about.

Do you honestly think that any of those companies other than ARAMCO are paying them serious money? Outside of ARAMCO, that entire list of customers is likely less than $100 million in annual revenue collectively. Most likely, way less. And irrelevant to the success of the business, because the big money in sports lies in the broadcast rights, which LIV can’t garner because they don’t have any fans to speak of at this point. ’ Honestly, any discussion of the economics of LIV is a waste of time, as they’re never going to be profitable under their current business model and they obviously don’t care. So debating the money side of things is moot. The only thing worthy of debate is whether their product is entertaining and whether their players are playing world class golf. For the most part the answer to those questions for most fans is no and no. Essentially, most of the LIV ‘stars’ are the golf equivalent of the folks Meta pays millions to sit around the office doing nothing other than not working for a competitor.

Great customer service. But 55 lbs?! Were ya smugglin’ somethin in there?

He’s just cognizant of the fact that he is no longer in control. But they’ve got 200 million reasons not to be overly concerned…

2.3 miles from the coast, but about 150 feet above sea level. Gonna keep an eye on things this evening….

What’s 10x Freddy’s Frozen Custard?

Agree, the founders didn’t get $100 million in cash. They likely sold some of their shares in the deal and the remainder was new equity capital into the business. So they probably got millions in cash out of the business and kept a minority interest in the business that ensures they remain engaged for at least a significant transition period. [EDIT: just read the founder’s post and actually it sounds like they did sell a large majority share, so they likely did get over $100 million is cash out of the sale…] I heard from somebody close to one of the founders a while back that the company was shipping over 10k putters a month over a year ago, so I could easily see 160k putters going out the door in 2025. Given their product pricing and their obviously large profit margins, their valuation should absolutely be over $200 million. My guess would be well over. All I’ve read is that it is ‘over $200 million’. The data may be out on CapIQ, but I don’t have access anymore since I retired.

Spent my entire career doing this, and I agree with a lot of what you said, but not all. The challenge with extrapolating company valuation from a partial investment lies always in the terms and structure of the deal. Based on the numbers quoted, if the buyer did take a majority ownership position (I.e, if by control they mean 51%+, not minority with controlling rights), then the valuation number is likely simply a gross up of that number and is a fair indication of value for the company. There’s no way they paid $20-25 for 51% and then disclosed it at $200 million. It would make no sense. Where the public disclosure gets stupid is when a VC buys a minority preferred equity position with all sorts of rights and preferences that adds value to their shares over and above the other classes, and then that transaction is extrapolated over the entire equity pool. That is almost always wildly inaccurate, unless the company is very close to a transaction. As regards selling controlling interest, I’ve had numerous clients sell controlling interests in their private company when they were ready to at least partially exit. In doing so, they demanded/commanded a much better valuation than they would have otherwise gotten. It’s not only a valuation issue for many of these entrepreneurs, it’s derisking their financial future, which is very important to a lot of people.

And when that moron gets out of jail, he’ll probably have a process server waiting to hand him the pleadings for the lawsuit filed by the victim in this case. So not only will Mr. Wizard have a criminal record and be out thousands in court costs and restitution, he’ll probably lose his Ram truck and the double wide he shares with his mom in the lawsuit.

It’s frowned upon on our course and will quickly get you suspended if someone sees you do it. But our course a) has very few good spots to do it unnoticed and b) has a restroom every 3-5 holes. I don’t have a problem if someone does it, but you have to find a spot that nobody can see you. If a woman saw you, you weren’t in such a spot.

A lot of good bags out there, but if you’re considering a Players 4, skip it and go for the Carbon version. Club space is identical and the Carbon is half a pound lighter. Just remember that a lot of the small/lightweight carry bags have some challenges staying put on some trolleys.

We’re talking about professional golf, I.e., people that play for money, big money. So business and entertainment is the single most important element to this discussion. If you want to talk about what’s good for ‘golf’, you should look to the USGA and the PGA of America. And once you start talking about international expansion, what’s ’good for golf’ in one region might not be ‘good for golf’ in another region. IMO, there is zero value to the game of golf in the U.S. or to me as a fan by having the best players in the world playing internationally. It’s a negative due to the time zone difference. And few of the players have any interest whatsoever in playing internationally and have said as much. The PGA Tour was very smart in not playing much overseas, as they knew that their market is largely here in the U.S. and the U.S. fanbase sees no value in waking up at 2 in the morning to watch golf in Singapore. And let’s get real, LIV was not created to be some altruistic entity designed to grow the game of golf, internationally or otherwise. It was designed with an expectation that they would be able to poach most of the most prized assets of the PGA Tour and quickly have the top professional golf tour in the world. And they’ve failed miserably for so many reasons, which have been discussed here ad nauseum. They’re expanding internationally because it’s their only choice; they’re a failed entity in the U.S. LIV is the equivalent of a rich oil sheik paying for The Rolling Stones to play a private concert for him every weekend. That’s all it is. The fact that LIV survives is evidence of nothing other than the fact that said sheik is fine throwing money away.

Making no money. YT channels are great for fans with ADD to spend time scrolling through all day, but they make diddly squat compared to even a minor professional league like the PGA Tour. If you want to attract a broad, highly profitable fan base that stays connected through dozens of ad impressions, you need something compelling. LIV has nothing compelling, which is the biggest reason that they have no fans and minimal sponsors.

I was about to start watching it last night and then I remembered, Happy Gilmore was one of the stupidest movies I’ve ever watched. Why would I expect the sequel 20 years later to be any different?

Agree that they’re here to stay, but totally disagree with the last part. What top 50 player have they lured in the last 12 months just with purses? Why would you expect them to be able to do it now? The only way they’re luring anyone is with big, big money and that’s just lighting money on fire, as they proved with Rahm.

That’s what I’m talking about when I say regional leagues. There are all kinds of leagues, the common thread being they often involve non-members playing at private (or semi private) courses. I’ve played in city run leagues (Thursday night league in Houston, Texas), GA leagues, and private club leagues. All the same general idea and I often played at clubs where I wasn’t a member. Honestly, the only issues I ever had with members behaving like basshats were a few of the guys that I was playing against from the club at which we were playing…

Bumping a five year old thread?