Recent WRX article on graphite iron shafts. Is it time?

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[quote name='SeekonkHolen1' timestamp='1392488198' post='8674343']
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I don't think you'll see a mass exodus until the prices of graphite shafts come down measurably.

Irons shafts: $20-30/each. Set of 8: $160-240
Recoils or Steelfibres: $40-50/each. Set of 8: $320-400
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I can see your point here, but most of us don't really think too hard about spending $300 on a single shaft for a driver, so when you can buy a set of 8 for the irons it doesn't seem quite so bad.
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Never spent more than $120 on a shaft and probably never will.

That aside, if you step up to the heavier Recoils (ie. prototypes), you're now in $125/shaft territory which most certainly is a deal breaker for most.
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Absolutely!! At $125 each there would be a very limited market

Although golfsmith has the 125g Recoils priced at 44.95
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Big difference between the Recoil 125 ($45) and Recoil Proto 125 ($125) though in terms of $$ and performance.

[matchavez]

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[quote name='SeekonkHolen1' timestamp='1392488198' post='8674343']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392487554' post='8674291']
[quote name='SeekonkHolen1' timestamp='1392487138' post='8674247']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392484624' post='8674029']
I don't think you'll see a mass exodus until the prices of graphite shafts come down measurably.

Irons shafts: $20-30/each. Set of 8: $160-240
Recoils or Steelfibres: $40-50/each. Set of 8: $320-400
[/quote]

I can see your point here, but most of us don't really think too hard about spending $300 on a single shaft for a driver, so when you can buy a set of 8 for the irons it doesn't seem quite so bad.
[/quote]

Never spent more than $120 on a shaft and probably never will.

That aside, if you step up to the heavier Recoils (ie. prototypes), you're now in $125/shaft territory which most certainly is a deal breaker for most.
[/quote]

Absolutely!! At $125 each there would be a very limited market

Although golfsmith has the 125g Recoils priced at 44.95
[/quote]

Big difference between the Recoil 125 ($45) and Recoil Proto 125 ($125) though in terms of $$ and performance.
[/quote]

I'm lucky that since I have a "natural fade", I want the higher torque. That's $560 saved. High five, fade!

[dave s 316]

Price aside, the recoil proto 125 is by far the best iron shaft on the market. This is for me mind you, but I tested every iron shaft I could find on my Trackman. The Recoil proto 125 f5 flex gave me the exact ball flight and spin of my c-taper s +. Just a touch more yards, but nothing more than a couple. Not a clubs worth or anything. What blows me away is as others have said, the shaft feels like it reacts to you swing. Don't know how to explain it other than if you go after one, it doesn't lose control, and if you half or 3/4 swing it doesn't feel like a board. I don't know how they achive this, but it is a great feeling. The biggest thing is dispersion. Tightest groups ever!!! No shock is also a huge plus. 125.00 a shaft? For me, worth every penny!!

[Sean2]

I had serious elbow problems. Since switching to graphite they went away.

[DC300]

I see the same arguments on this all the time.

Cost: Steel fiber is $40 a shaft, Recoils $45, project x or KBS are $35 to $40 anyway. So I call b.s. to that.

Feel: Sorry fan boys, steel cannot compete.

Performance: I find it to be better than steel, but I will flat out guarantee a properly fit graphite is going to be as good or better than steel.

I'm reminded of the commercial which shows the old guard holding on to their old ways. Remember when 300cc was a HUGE driver? People who wait are only hurting themselves.

[tdelam]

I've never had joint pain or issues but I just swapped out heavy DG S300 (130g shafts) because they are too heavy for KBS C-taper LITE S (110g), I like a little lighter shaft. I never considered graphite but it might be an option one day as well.

[James Ng]

I started playing with Matrix Ozik Program 95 5 months ago and immediately I hit farther and straighter and it always feel better with this shaft. I will never change this shaft again.

[lumberman2462]

[quote name='DC300' timestamp='1392492259' post='8674693']
I see the same arguments on this all the time.

Cost: Steel fiber is $40 a shaft, Recoils $45, project x or KBS are $35 to $40 anyway. So I call b.s. to that.

Feel: Sorry fan boys, steel cannot compete.

Performance: I find it to be better than steel, but I will flat out guarantee a properly fit graphite is going to be as good or better than steel.

I'm reminded of the commercial which shows the old guard holding on to their old ways. Remember when 300cc was a HUGE driver? People who wait are only hurting themselves.
[/quote]

My KBS were $35. I wasn't sticker shocked but noticed it. $125 per shaft is high. Not saying it might not be worth it.....3-W (or 2-W if you're a moron like me) is $1000 worth of shafts. That's pretty pricey.

[RainShadow]

I'm very close to going to the Recoils after playing light weight steel for the past 6 years. I got a case of golfers elbow this year, and I noticed when recent demoing the Cally Apex iron that after 30 balls off mats I had no elbow pain.
I'm just trying to decide which weight and flex to go with, and whether to buy a new set of irons or reshaft my CB3s.
I'll be selling some i20s to help finance my set, as I'm convinced graphite is the way to go for me. 10 handicap. 52yo.

[DavePelz4]

It was time for some of us to move to graphite 15 years ago...and never look back.

[pafill]

I'm older and have bad hands. Finally went to graphite in irons and wedges (TP90s in irons and GAT95 in wedges). Like night and day. No struggle to control and the butter feel has returned. Aches in hands have really subsided. Can't recommend it enough.

[InspiredTP]

[quote name='matchavez' timestamp='1392491158' post='8674597']
I am switching. The performance of my C-Tapers is excellent, with the exception that a human being has to load the shafts and receive the vibrations in return. Someone else called them "joint destroyers" and I absolutely must agree.

I want to like and enjoy golf! I don't want to feel like I was in a car wreck when I come home from the range!

Probably Recoils, probably in Apex Pros simply because it is a stock option. I had played graphite for a long time, and my fitter said I hit way too far to be messing with graphite. I agreed because I had splitting shafts on my G15s. Those TFCs were garbage -- at least my batch. Broke the 4, 5, p, and u. But having done the steel thing, I would MUCH rather deal with the occasional sheering issue than ending up with this kind of pain time after time.

I'm not saying C-Tapers aren't great - they are. However, my body doesn't like it, and I'm going to listen to it.

BUT I am sticking to steel forever... in my putter!
[/quote]

Agree about the c tapers. I loved the flight, feel and dispersion, but the reverb on missed shots was doing a number on my hands and wrists. (Few breaks in each, both sides). Went back to KBS tours and find them highly playable, but would really like to try out some Steelfibers. I guess I'm just another guy waiting for the price to come down. Doubtful I suspect...

[gsrjc]

I got fitted by club champion in DC and the graphite shafts didn't work for me. Still went with kbs steel. Went from kbs tour stiff to kbs tour 90 stiff.

[PingDrv00]

I have true both the Recoils Protos, and Accuflex and if they were in the upcharge range of the KBS Tour; it would be a no brainer. When the prices come down, then I figure I would give them a shot as well.

[UST Mamiya TPS]

This is a very interesting topic and one that will be a continuing discussion for years to come. In my honest opinion, everyone will play graphite in their irons within 8-10 years. Steel was the shaft option of choice forever in woods. It took technology and material advances to catch up in order for graphite to not only outperform steel but also be just as consistent. Once this became feasible, the entire shaft industry was transformed. We are rapidly approaching the same phenomenon in iron shafts. The beauty with graphite iron shafts is that you are starting with a blank canvas. You can design a graphite iron shaft to do whatever you want where as steel is limited in design as the metal is melted and then drawn. Obviously steps and wall thickness can be altered to affect trajectory/spin profiles but you are limited. Carbon fiber is a much much more dynamic material in terms of strength to weight ratio along with energy transfer dynamics. Obviously cost is the biggest deterrent but in my opinion there is a massive misconception Within the industry. For example, many don't mind paying $250-$350 for a driver shaft, but can't fathom spending $500-$800 for a set of iron shafts. This is a very exciting aspect of the industry as it is one of the few true advancements that are taking place in regards to research and development. Thanks.

[PingDrv00]

I will say I am one of the few on WRx don't through me out that has issue paying $250-$300 for any driver shaft. In my experience quality of strike has more impact than any shaft has made in my own testing. I would have a hard time justifying such a high price for a set of iron shafts.

[UST Mamiya TPS]

[quote name='PingDrv00' timestamp='1392527935' post='8677839']
I will say I am one of the few on WRx don't through me out that has issue paying $250-$300 for any driver shaft. In my experience quality of strike has more impact than any shaft has made in my own testing. I would have a hard time justifying such a high price for a set of iron shafts.
[/quote]

I was speaking in generalities of the golfing community. Price of a shaft doesn't have a direct correlation to solidness of a strike. It's all about finding the correct fit and profile for your swing.

[bell812]

[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392491369' post='8674609']
[quote name='SeekonkHolen1' timestamp='1392488198' post='8674343']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392487554' post='8674291']
[quote name='SeekonkHolen1' timestamp='1392487138' post='8674247']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1392484624' post='8674029']
I don't think you'll see a mass exodus until the prices of graphite shafts come down measurably.

Irons shafts: $20-30/each. Set of 8: $160-240
Recoils or Steelfibres: $40-50/each. Set of 8: $320-400
[/quote]

I can see your point here, but most of us don't really think too hard about spending $300 on a single shaft for a driver, so when you can buy a set of 8 for the irons it doesn't seem quite so bad.
[/quote]

Never spent more than $120 on a shaft and probably never will.

That aside, if you step up to the heavier Recoils (ie. prototypes), you're now in $125/shaft territory which most certainly is a deal breaker for most.
[/quote]

Absolutely!! At $125 each there would be a very limited market

Although golfsmith has the 125g Recoils priced at 44.95
[/quote]

Big difference between the Recoil 125 ($45) and Recoil Proto 125 ($125) though in terms of $$ and performance.
[/quote]
Since UST is in the thread they can add to this, but I emailed them and was told the only difference in the standard vs prototype Recoils was the standard version was slightly higher torque.

[saasgolfer]

I am very very tempted. I just have to try them for my next set and have the funds...

[Yellow Jacket]

[quote name='UST Mamiya TPS' timestamp='1392526796' post='8677783']
This is a very interesting topic and one that will be a continuing discussion for years to come. In my honest opinion, everyone will play graphite in their irons within 8-10 years. Steel was the shaft option of choice forever in woods. It took technology and material advances to catch up in order for graphite to not only outperform steel but also be just as consistent. Once this became feasible, the entire shaft industry was transformed. We are rapidly approaching the same phenomenon in iron shafts. The beauty with graphite iron shafts is that you are starting with a blank canvas. You can design a graphite iron shaft to do whatever you want where as steel is limited in design as the metal is melted and then drawn. Obviously steps and wall thickness can be altered to affect trajectory/spin profiles but you are limited. Carbon fiber is a much much more dynamic material in terms of strength to weight ratio along with energy transfer dynamics. Obviously cost is the biggest deterrent but in my opinion there is a massive misconception Within the industry. For example, many don't mind paying $250-$350 for a driver shaft, but can't fathom spending $500-$800 for a set of iron shafts. This is a very exciting aspect of the industry as it is one of the few true advancements that are taking place in regards to research and development. Thanks.
[/quote]
I agree with your technical argument, but I think you're overstating people's appetite for expensive equipment. Most people have trouble paying more than $299 for the whole driver, and even most WRXers wouldn't spend $250 on a single shaft, so $500-$800 for iron shafts is completely out of the question for 99% of the golfing public.

[lumberman2462]

UST's prediction of 8-10 years is probably true....but the timing is really dependent upon prices coming down.

I haven't really looked into graphite shaft prices and am going off of numbers in this thread (and a few others) and it looks like $500 to more than $1000.00 to have your irons reshafted with graphite.

When the top-of-the-line graphit shafts get to the sub $500 range for a set then there will be a big move....until then I suppose we'll all just keep banged away with steel.

I play with pretty wide variety of good players. Some with deep pockets and some without. 2 guys using Steelfibers is all I can recall and apparently that shaft isn't at the top end price wise.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1392552664' post='8678443']
I haven't really looked into graphite shaft prices and am going off of numbers in this thread (and a few others) and it looks like $500 to more than $1000.00 to have your irons reshafted with graphite.

When the top-of-the-line graphit shafts get to the sub $500 range for a set then there will be a big move....until then I suppose we'll all just keep banged away with steel.
[/quote]

Actually they are many options already available under $500. For a set of 8 (not including labor for install) most steel fiber's are ~$390, the recoils (not proto's) are ~$360, and rip tour's ~$320.

[Falang_Golfer]

I think we will see the switch start to occur once OEMs start offering their normal "graphite" option with something like the RIP tour or steelfiber. Those would probably be an upcharge similar to the stock graphite shaft but at something the better golfer would look at. Currently all you have in stock is the OEM graphite which is lightweight and usually not comparable to the steel. I think this just adds to the impression that graphite is "not for me".

I do think price will be a major factor for many years. Sets starting at $1000+ are hard to swallow for most.

[EMgolf]

[quote name='Falang_Golfer' timestamp='1392559900' post='8678793']
I think we will see the switch start to occur once OEMs start offering their normal "graphite" option with something like the RIP tour or steelfiber. Those would probably be an upcharge similar to the stock graphite shaft but at something the better golfer would look at. Currently all you have in stock is the OEM graphite which is lightweight and usually not comparable to the steel. I think this just adds to the impression that graphite is "not for me".

I do think price will be a major factor for many years. Sets starting at $1000+ are hard to swallow for most.
[/quote]

Very good point. I think the change has to come from the OEMs because the majority of golfers just look at what's on the rack.

[BigHook25]

[quote name='Falang_Golfer' timestamp='1392559900' post='8678793']
I think we will see the switch start to occur once OEMs start offering their normal "graphite" option with something like the RIP tour or steelfiber. Those would probably be an upcharge similar to the stock graphite shaft but at something the better golfer would look at. Currently all you have in stock is the OEM graphite which is lightweight and usually not comparable to the steel. I think this just adds to the impression that graphite is "not for me".

I do think price will be a major factor for many years. Sets starting at $1000+ are hard to swallow for most.
[/quote]

Yup, going to be difficult for most to pay the extra money for minimal to no difference in performance. Eventually graphite shaft prices might come down, or maybe steel makes better and better feeling irons shafts that are more like graphite in terms of vibration.

[matchavez]

We'll see graphite become normal as soon as the "players" irons at the store are up there with graphite as the stock shaft. When the manufacturers deem that the graphite quality is good enough to be demo'd as their main technology, people will accept it in the same sense as woods.

It's not conventional wisdom as to why we change; it's when the manufacturers' bean counters believe that they'll have a better margin by selling graphite.

#followthemoney

[BidenTP]

After reading the article about graphite shafts it has me considering looking into them for my new iron purchase for this year.

Right now I've been looking at getting the Nippon 950s with a set of the new TM CBs.

I've never really considered going with graphite but it makes me wonder if I should also look at the Steelfiber i95s (they are the only graphite option available right now through TM).

I don't know much about the Steelfiber shafts and I wonder if anyone could fill me in on how they compare to the Nippon 950s?

[Boogs2]

I'm 30 and have tried using the Recoils. I believe I tried the 110g f4's and they felt just as stiff, if not stiffer than steel shafts. Just wasnt my cup of tea so ended up selling them. I have no problems going with graphite again though, but I would need to test them out extensively. I believe I can benefit from the technology and may help me hit the ball a bit higher since I feel I hit the ball pretty low with my irons. Back pains and weight gain have slowed down my swing considerably and I plan on getting back to a healthier eating habit, but I may pick up a set of graphite shafted irons to try out. Plus I prefer lighter weight shafts on all my clubs.

[rbhan12]

A lot of people talk about steel vs graphite in terms of feel. At impact, in my opinion as well, graphite dampens vibrations and feels much "softer". However a major reason why i took the plunge into Recoil Prototypes wasn't just the feel at impact, but the feel throughout the swing. Previously I was playing the same heads except with DG TI X100s. They were simply too heavy and way too stiff for my iron swing. I understand that the dynamics of it affect ball flight marginally, however the feel throughout the swing was awful for me. I do not have the swing speed nor the aggression to handle that level of stiffness.

When I switched to Recoil Prototype 110 F4, my swing and ball striking took an immediate turnaround, without exaggeration in the first range session. The feel throughout the swing and at impact is absolutely phenomenal. I can really step on it and the shafts always feel consistent and never behind me. They really know how much to work, it's incredible. For me, I'm never going to go back to steel in my irons. While the argument is extremely valid that if I played S300s, S400, KBS Tour Stiff, PX 5.5/6.0, perhaps my swing and results would have been similar. I personally see the argument and think that way as well.

I guess I've found myself some dumb luck, and you know what they say, it's better to be lucky than good. I cannot speak highly or well enough of how graphite shafts in my irons transformed my golf game. What I can say is a thank you to UST Mamiya, you fine ladies and gentlemen over there kept me from quitting the game at a young age. Best decision I've made in my young lifetime as a golfer.

[animalgolfs]

Graphite in everything except putter......

Switch now....steel is going the way of the Dodo