Made for shafts VS "real" ones... difference?

[bladehunter]

Like the title says ...Are their any numbers , or has a study been done to confirm an actual difference between "made for" shafts VS aftermarket? Specifically the Mitsubishi for titleist . I have a made for Ahina in a 910 D3 and hit it well. But cant help but wonder what all the "made for" fuss is about. Surely a head to head test has been done?? No? Ive searched and cant find one.

[MtlJeff]

the difference between shafts is only going to matter to the person swinging the club. Any kind of robot test, or test done by a person, may not be relevant to you. I don't think anyone doubts there are differences (often the basic specs are listed and you can clearly tell they are different), but in some cases the made for may suit you better then the "real deal", or at least be just as good for you

i don't think there's a fuss about made-for anywhere except on the internet. I've never even heard the term mentioned in real life

I've used drivers with stock aftermarket shafts or made-fors....i've never really noticed a performance difference but my swing isn't a crazy outlier (107-110 ss)

[Jc0]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1393382888' post='8746374']
Like the title says ...Are their any numbers , or has a study been done to confirm an actual difference between "made for" shafts VS aftermarket? Specifically the Mitsubishi for titleist . I have a made for Ahina in a 910 D3 and hit it well. But cant help but wonder what all the "made for" fuss is about. Surely a head to head test has been done?? No? Ive searched and cant find one.
[/quote]

Dig a little deeper in the club making section and you will find a ton on it. It really depends on the "made for" shaft you are using. In the case of the shaft you are using the major difference is the shaft is softer in the tip so it has slightly higher launch and spin than the actual shaft, which Titleist actually says. There are also some corners cut graphically to make it cheaper to produce, but the materials are the same as the after market version. Now some shafts, such as nike's made for shafts, seem to be no where near the after market version.

In reality though if the shaft fits you it really doesn't matter. There were some pga tour members playing the made for Ahina because it fit them best.

[Hot Rod 71]

Watch all three of these videos for answers to your questions.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xAQ3mjHiI[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJiuGtBElo8[/media]

[Hot Rod 71]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3OjYpVZXCc

[bladehunter]

hmm...makes sense... The shaft im using actually does fit me pretty well..I hit the ball 280-320 depending on roll out ( uphill ,down hill etc) I play it in a 8.5 910 d3 . My question was based on threads ive been reading about $300 shafts and how everyone is crazy for not trying one... I just cant get my head around what more I could get the shaft to "do" . Not trying to be a smart arse...I really want to know what all the fuss is about. id buy a $300 shaft if I thought for one second it would gain me 20 plus yards but I just have my doubts...

[Hot Rod 71]

If you have a proprietary (stock) shaft that fits your game then you are set.

Most stock shafts are made to fit a wide range of golfers. Aftermarket shafts allow you to pick and choose (butt soft/stiff, tip soft/stiff, high launch, mid launch, low launch, weight, etc.) characteristics based on your swing and the launch profile you are looking for.

I think most aftermarket shafts are more true to flex within their own specification range. Stock shafts can be all over the map when it comes to flex. They are also generally higher launching shafts. And as you can see in the first video, very cheaply made.

A friend had a stock stiff flex shaft in his TM driver and kept hitting wicked hooks with it. Put it on the frequency machine and it measured just below regular. It was a "made for" Matrix Ozik. The guy in the third video explains why there is such a large variance when it comes to stock shafts.

[bladehunter]

hmm.. watched videos and makes me still question what or of im missing out on something...Im a self taught player and am very bad about "adapting " to whatever I have in my hand... most of time that's a good thing but makes me wonder now if I might be missing some control or workability with a well fitted shaft... Ive never been fitted for anything except a putter which I recently changed and enjoyed immediate results ( was playing 33 inch fitted for 35)..I guess the only way ill know for "me" is to investigate further by getting a proper fitting....
The thing that makes me wonder the most are the head to head quality comparisons....how does this effect consistency in actual shaft performance?

[rbhan12]

You'll see a lot of people complaining, and rightfully so, about manufacturing tolerances, particularly with loft, lie, and face angle. A similar argument could be made for the heads with respect to the materials and strength. That's why people buy into your issue equipment, for the tight tolerances and sometimes better materials.

I personally believe that shafts are important when you have a solid swing and can make a difference on your game. Just because you hit it far (much farther than me) does not mean that the shaft fits you well. Having a real manufacturer quality shaft is very important in my opinion.

As far as the videos the only thing I will say is that more companies are putting real aftermarket versions of shafts in their woods, namely Callaway. So when the guy says if you buy it together it's not aftermarket he's wrong, more companies are doing it. That's one reason I put Callaway in the woods, because of the shafts. Adams I believe also used real shafts in their super ls range of woods, as did Nike with their original covert and new covert lines. I would love to play some TaylorMade woods but the shafts are such garbage and I don't want to pay more for a better shaft through the TP option when I can find a comparable head with a legitimate shaft. It really makes a world of a difference when you get your swing honed in.

Some companies however will have entire lines of shafts made for them. I believe that's how the Kuro Kage shafts came to be; nike ordered them to be made and to be high quality real aftermarket shafts. I'm pretty positive that Titleist also created the S+ and D+ series specifically for the 913 line and Mitsubishi made it part of their offering because of the quality. Somebody can correct me on either of those examples.

GO WITH AFTERMARKET!!!

[simple36]

95% of golfers can't tell the difference between a $400 shaft and the stock shaft from whatever club they are playing. Aftermarket shafts really do target the rest of the people that either need the tighter tolerences in flex and or weight, better materials, or need different launch characteristic than what they get with stock shaft.

Would we all love to see real deal aftermarket shafts come stock? Sure but we are the small percentage of people that care. The larger percent of people isn't going to notice the difference and is not going to want to pay $600 for their new driver. IMO a company can never sell the "real" aftermarket shafts stock in all their clubs simply due to the fact that it would drive the prices up higher than most people are willing to pay.

[shortstop20]

So the stock Kuro Kage in my Covert Tour 1.0 driver is a real aftermarket shaft?

I have a Nickent 4DX that I hit for a long time(until I bought the Covert) because I love the UST Proforce V2 in it. After reading this it makes sense why I don't like the feel of most off the rack drivers out there.

[cliffhanger]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1393384384' post='8746580']
Watch all three of these videos for answers to your questions.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xAQ3mjHiI[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJiuGtBElo8[/media]
[/quote]the second video does make sense with the quality comparison with regards to torque and deformation of the shaft. Thanks for the video.

[cliffhanger]

Where do Ping shafts fit into the equation? Are we talking poor quality "made for shafts" or better made shafts with their name on them?

[scottycollector]

the best way to answer your question is to go for a club fitting session with a trackman. at worst, you walk away with your stock shaft and a set of trackman data.

[minteq]

Both aftermarket and made for shafts are good, depends on what fits your swing. I have had success with the stock shafts and been fit for aftermarket shafts. Most stock shafts are made for the general public, easier to handle. Best thing to do is try a few shafts, both kinds and see what gives you the best results.

[bladehunter]

[quote name='scottycollector' timestamp='1393398580' post='8747658']
the best way to answer your question is to go for a club fitting session with a trackman. at worst, you walk away with your stock shaft and a set of trackman data.
[/quote]


I agree..thats what I have decided...I hope the shaft I have is what comes out on top..but cant help but wonder so ill have to satisfy the curiousity... I would have never fooled with it before as I always fought a huge slice etc and it didn't matter what shaft etc. .But I have taken my 1st swing lessons ever in the last 3 weeks and my coach straightend it right out. Im even able to move the ball right to left with the driver which I had never done before... .Now im wondering what else im leaving on the table by doing it all "myself". So far he has fit me for a putter that's dropping them in the hole,(did not buy new putter, lengthed old one) straightened my driver out , and shortened my long backswing which has eleviated some elbow pain I used to get sometimes. Im on the bangwagon now I guess lol and as long as I see positive results I cant get off! Im going to call him today and schedule a driver shaft fitting. Ill post results as soon as I get them.

[misplacedtexan83]

The biggest difference I notice is when I bought a Made for Titleist Aldila RIP and used for my driver... the specs were different for the made for then the real deal on the respective website. Now, I have always heard Titleist has made the shafts for the drivers because it is the best set up, etc. for the head

[Jc0]

[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393422605' post='8748506']
The biggest difference I notice is when I bought a Made for Titleist Aldila RIP and used for my driver... the specs were different for the made for then the real deal on the respective website. Now, I have always heard Titleist has made the shafts for the drivers because it is the best set up, etc. for the head
[/quote]

All the Aldila shafts Titleists uses are real. The reason for the difference in specs are how the shafts specs are measured. There is no standard for measuring torque. Go look around the various OEM websites. You'll see the same shaft can have different specs for each OEM even though it is the same shaft.

[rbhan12]

The made for Aldila RIP shafts that TaylorMade used with their R11s in my opinion were awful. I really wish TM would put some real shafts in their clubs at a stock price. Cleveland, Callaway(more recently), Nike (more recently), Adams, and Titleist (sort of) put real shafts in their clubs.

To the people that say they can't buy them and are still fake regardless need to remember that they're buying these shafts in bulk, by the tens of thousands.

[misplacedtexan83]

[quote name='Jc0' timestamp='1393424857' post='8748734']
[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393422605' post='8748506']
The biggest difference I notice is when I bought a Made for Titleist Aldila RIP and used for my driver... the specs were different for the made for then the real deal on the respective website. Now, I have always heard Titleist has made the shafts for the drivers because it is the best set up, etc. for the head
[/quote]

All the Aldila shafts Titleists uses are real. The reason for the difference in specs are how the shafts specs are measured. There is no standard for measuring torque. Go look around the various OEM websites. You'll see the same shaft can have different specs for each OEM even though it is the same shaft.
[/quote]

There is no standard for measuring Torque? So they just produce shafts with having a standard? Kind of doesn't make sense to me but Im just average golfer so..

[rbhan12]

[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393425353' post='8748786']
[quote name='Jc0' timestamp='1393424857' post='8748734']
[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393422605' post='8748506']
The biggest difference I notice is when I bought a Made for Titleist Aldila RIP and used for my driver... the specs were different for the made for then the real deal on the respective website. Now, I have always heard Titleist has made the shafts for the drivers because it is the best set up, etc. for the head
[/quote]

All the Aldila shafts Titleists uses are real. The reason for the difference in specs are how the shafts specs are measured. There is no standard for measuring torque. Go look around the various OEM websites. You'll see the same shaft can have different specs for each OEM even though it is the same shaft.
[/quote]

There is no standard for measuring Torque? So they just produce shafts with having a standard? Kind of doesn't make sense to me but Im just average golfer so..
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Ping measures torque differently too. Maybe it depends on how far up or down the shaft they start twisting, who knows.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393425353' post='8748786']
There is no standard for measuring Torque? So they just produce shafts with having a standard?
[/quote]

Correct. No common standard used by different companies. Just like flex.

[Hot Rod 71]

As someone else said above, many manufacturers are now offering "the real deal" shafts in many of their offerings. For example, the Diamanas in Titleist's 913 series, the Kuro Kages in the Nikes, all of Callaway's new models, etc. I for one am glad to see this. Who wants to pay $400 for a driver and get a shaft that's worth $20 and plays like it?

The "made for" or stock shafts will generally be fine for the weekend golfer. Most of them don't play enough to notice differences in shaft performance. Those who play more frequently and are perhaps more serious about their game may prefer the tighter tolerances, better construction, and available options of an aftermarket shaft.

[w6racing]

so is the shaft in the new big bertha definitely real?

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393425353' post='8748786']
[quote name='Jc0' timestamp='1393424857' post='8748734']
[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393422605' post='8748506']
The biggest difference I notice is when I bought a Made for Titleist Aldila RIP and used for my driver... the specs were different for the made for then the real deal on the respective website. Now, I have always heard Titleist has made the shafts for the drivers because it is the best set up, etc. for the head
[/quote]

All the Aldila shafts Titleists uses are real. The reason for the difference in specs are how the shafts specs are measured. There is no standard for measuring torque. Go look around the various OEM websites. You'll see the same shaft can have different specs for each OEM even though it is the same shaft.
[/quote]

[b]There is no standard for measuring Torque? [/b]So they just produce shafts with having a standard? Kind of doesn't make sense to me but Im just average golfer so..
[/quote]

Correct. Each manufacturer has its own torque standards for their own shafts.

The same can be said of flex designations. While a stiff flex from Aldila and a stiff flex from Fujikura may fall into the same acceptable range, one may be on the soft side of stiff and one may be on the stiffer side of stiff.

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='w6racing' timestamp='1393426630' post='8748920']
so is the shaft in the new big bertha definitely real?
[/quote]

Correct.

[rbhan12]

[quote name='w6racing' timestamp='1393426630' post='8748920']
so is the shaft in the new big bertha definitely real?
[/quote]

Yeah that's a real fubuki zt shaft. Same thing with the previous RFX model. The Trinity was a real shaft as well as the Black Tie (an excellent shaft if it fits you).

[misplacedtexan83]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1393426107' post='8748858']
[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393425353' post='8748786']
There is no standard for measuring Torque? So they just produce shafts with having a standard?
[/quote]

Correct. No common standard used by different companies. Just like flex.
[/quote]

Wow that is crazy!!

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393429267' post='8749222']
[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1393426107' post='8748858']
[quote name='misplacedtexan83' timestamp='1393425353' post='8748786']
There is no standard for measuring Torque? So they just produce shafts with having a standard?
[/quote]

Correct. No common standard used by different companies. Just like flex.
[/quote]

Wow that is crazy!!
[/quote]

Sad, but not really crazy. And add measuring club length to that as well along with almost all aspects of determining club specs. Standards require some independent oversite group or effort on the part of the 'participants'- and from the business standpoint, there is no real incentive to put the money into such effort that would provide virtually no returns on that investment.

[saasgolfer]

Although with a "made for shat" You are not getting the real thing you still will be getting a good shaft...