Who's the best mid-amateur or senior at your club, and have you ever played with him?

[Obee]

First of all, I'm assuming that the best amateur player at your club is a male, but if it's a female, good for her. More interested in the male players, though, because that's who we compare ourselves to.

 

I'd like to know:

 

1) What is your current index

2) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school?

3) What is his index (or a guesstimate)?

4) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume?

5) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds?

6) What have you learned from playing with him?

7) If you haven't played with him, why have you not?

8) If you thought he would say yes to playing with you, would that make a difference in you asking to play with him?

 

I have a hunch about the answers to these questions, and I'm asking them with something in mind, which I'll get to later....

[TomMorgan51]

Too many questions to answer but I have played with a guy that is around a +3 at my local course. He plays in a lot of statewide am events. Nice guy, great golfer.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

There are a handful of guys at my club who are at a pretty similar level. Some of them have won City or State level tournaments over the years, at least one of them (maybe two) have gotten in a Tour event at some point in their life. But there's about six or so of them who can beat each other on any given day and mostly they play together in a daily money game.

Never had a chance to play with any of those guys. As a high handicapper who is not what they would consider "serious" about the game it's not really my scene anyway. There's one other guy in our club who used to play at that level but is in his 70's now and no longer plays in big-money game or enters tournaments.

I ought to take to heart what I observe when I play with this guy. The most worked up I've ever seen him over a bad hole or a couple of bad shots in a row is to shake his head and say "Hmmpf". And of course when he makes three birdies in a row he acts like it was perfectly expected for those putts to go in, nothing to get excited about. I guess he's been making birdies, making bogeys, winning tournaments and losing bets since before I was born and at some point you either quit the game or you learn to take it all in stride.

[mjb2013]

1) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school? Not about to name people.
2) What is his index (or a guesstimate)? Plus four.
3) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume? A fair few in national amateur events UK.
4) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds? Loads, grew up playing with his brother.
5) What have you learned from playing with him? That he is a lazy sod with a lot of talent.
6) If you haven't played with him, why have you not? na
7) If you thought he would say yes to playing with you, would that make a difference in you asking to play with him? na

[lumberman2462]

I'm a member at two clubs. One is the club I grew up playing and is just your average run-of-the-mill small town country club. The other is fancy....I'm a national member there.

Home Club: Best Player is a 26 year old kid that played 4 years of college golf and won the State Am. Best over 40 year old is a guy that is 52 and has won probably 20 amateur events over the last 25 years. Never played college golf but actually still managed to win our Club Championship in 2011....beating the above mentioned best player at the club.

Fancy Club: Best Player is a Champions Tour Player. Best young am is either a Junior in college girl that plays D1 or another college kid that graduates this spring and is planning on turning pro and giving the Hooters Tour a try....Best Senior is a guy that won our State Am & Open back in the day. He runs around all over the place playing USGA events and is tough. He top 10'd in the Senior British Am two years ago. The Most impressive player is a 7th grade kid that won the high school regional tournament this year. Shot 72....in the 7th GRADE!!! Kid is awesome.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1394091252' post='8809667']
First of all, I'm assuming that the best amateur player at your club is a male, but if it's a female, good for her. More interested in the male players, though, because that's who we compare ourselves to.

I'd like to know:

1) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school?
2) What is his index (or a guesstimate)?
3) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume?
4) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds?
5) What have you learned from playing with him?
6) If you haven't played with him, why have you not?
7) If you thought he would say yes to playing with you, would that make a difference in you asking to play with him?

I have a hunch about the answers to these questions, and I'm asking them with something in mind, which I'll get to later....
[/quote]

I'm not sure where you're going with this Obee, but I'll offer a couple of comments.

I have a friend who's no longer at my club. He's the same guy I put in a word for along with you, when you were both auditioning for the same BB a couple of years ago (a lot of good that did . He played #1 at Notre Dame, was a legit +4 at the club, played the Asian Tour for a bit, won some stuff. Absolutely pleasure to play with and will play with anyone and offer any advice or help he's asked for.

The Club I play at in Florida, does the Tour Pre-Qual & Qualifying for Innisbrook & the former Outback, so I've played with a few Tour guys that are there for practice rounds. The ones I've played with, have been a pleasure, Alex Cejka and Grant Waite being the most fun. (I didn't actually play with Alex, just spent some time on the practice green with him.)


The Club has a skins game on Fridays. Occasionally some former Touring Pros (John Huston, Tim Petrovich, a few others) & a bunch of very good Ams, Mini-Tour guys, etc. Anyone who wants to play with them, is more than welcome. I haven't played with them, because I can't handle the course from 7200 yards, but know some of the guys and most of them are a pleasure.

I belong to 3 clubs and one dynamic I've notice at all 3, is a some of the 1-3 HC guys are the worst to play with. Way too many of them seem to have a chip on their shoulder, think they're way better than everyone else and always have an excuse why they're only a month's worth of practice away, from winning the U.S. Open. Every club I've ever belonged to, seemed to have a clique of these sorts of guys.

In an gross over-generalization, I find the guys I'm least likely to enjoy playing with, are 12-18 HC's who are convinced they're one quick lesson away from being Scratch and the very low single digit guys, who think they're a month of solid practice, from the PGA Tour.

Not within the scope of your question, but the other group I almost always refuse to play with, are high school golfers. Almost without exception, the ones I've played with in Florida are rude, inconsiderate, self-infatuated and way too impressed with their game (or lack of, in some cases).

[Hawkeye77]

Too many questions, no way I'll give names, thread says mid-am but post wants best am so not sure what you are after.

Having said that, I play with a variety of players, some really, really good, but all players I enjoy. I play with friends. If a player is touting the names of players, won't play with certain handicaps, etc., that player is not seeing the forest because of the trees of pomposity.

Personality has everything to do with who I play with, whether someone is the best player at the course has nothing to do with it. You can "learn" almost anything from observing ALL levels of players.

I don't think seeking out the best player at a club and trying to "learn" from that person is something that needs to be a relevant question for 99% of golfers.

[lumberman2462]

Many young high school golfers have some punkish tendencies.....it ain't just Florida. Fortunately most will grow out of it.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1394110006' post='8810087']
Many young high school golfers have some punkish tendencies.....it ain't just Florida. Fortunately most will grow out of it.
[/quote]

One can only hope! :-)

[animalgolfs]

3 time state am champ
Future ncaa champ
1 time major winner
Guy who shot 59 on tour

All four are different but I enjoyed playing against them.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Players from the local high school that our club has "adopted" seem to be pretty scrupulously considerate of the members when they're out there. I don't know if it's just the particular kids or their coach or if maybe they're just real grateful to have use of such a nice course (some of the high schools in the area play their home matches on very so-so public tracks). But they step aside and let people play through when they're practicing, they periodically come out and spend an afternoon filling divots and they seem at least as courteous as my fellow members when I encounter them on the course or around the clubhouse.

Probably varies a lot in different parts of the country or just from high school to high school. We're way out in the far 'burbs and it's an area that not all that long ago was a small town. May just be remnants of the old small-town Southern manners thing.

[blaird]

1) He is not a member at my club but plays there fairly regularly, he won the USGA mid am in 09 I think so if you want to know his name just look up the winners and find the guy from MS

2)No clue what his index is I would guess +3ish

3) Won the USGA Mid Am, MC at the Masters, won 2 state ams, and has been player of the year a couple times in our state

4) Yes. Couldnt tell you how many times but if hes at the course me and him usually have some big swings against each other

5) Havent learned anything I didnt know. He hits his tee shot very straight and fairly long, hits his irons good, and while he will tell you he is a terrible putter I have yet to see it. I think he is a decent putter who can get very hot. He just doesnt make many bogeys or mistakes.

[Upgrayedd]

I have played with a couple of good golfers both of whom won tournaments you probably never heard of. From one I learned that I am not a long hitter which previously I thought I was. From the other I learned that one does not have to be a long hitter to play decent golf.

[Obee]

Good stuff so far. Keep 'em coming. I'd also like to know what your index is currently, please. By the way, I'm NOT the best player at my club. There are two guys who are one full level (maybe even two) above me.

[Forged4ever]

Yes, to most of em, +4-5 to one of em, too many rounds to count, and as Hawkeye & MJB stated, I'm not about to start droppin names because he values his privacy, as do a few others, and yeah, you'd know him and at least one of the others, and yep, he and one other have won a bunch, as the air's very, very, very thin at the level that he plays at, lol., and he's one of the most humble Gentleman that I've met on or off the course. He's a Gentleman's Gentleman.

As the mental part of the game is the most critical part of my game, and I find it intriguing to watch the great Ams like the two that I'm speaking of, along with the Pros, and how they handle this part of the game.

What separates this individual from even the second Am, is his ability to focus, visualize and play his game, regardless of what's going on around him.

At their level, everyone has a gorgeous swing(well, most of em do, lol), can throw darts and when "hot," putt lights out.

What separates the truly great ones, and this individual falls into that category, regardless of what club he visits, is the mental game and their ability to visualize their shots and putts and focus out the "noise," both internally and externally.

He has machine like focus.

And BTW, I'm not the typical low cap that Brian describes!

I'm a solid 6-8 weeks from the Web.com, though if I could spend the winters in FLA, I'd be bangin with the John Cook and the Boyz



Have a great season


Fairways & Greens My Friend,
Richard

[knock it close]

1) My current index is right around 0 +- 0.5
2) We got two real good Am's at my club and a handful more with +hdc
3) Both are +4 or a little better, I found one of theres and they are a +4.1
4) One played on the Canadian tour for a handful a year but hasn't played any amateur events sense regaining status, probably cause they don't let you drink in tournaments, he's probably in his forties now. The other played at univ. of San Fran, he had three major injuries while he was there and didn't play competitive golf after graduating until last year which would probably have been 3-4 years. He finished 3rd at both the Alberta Am and Open.
5) I've played a handful of times with both of them
6) Their precision and ability to score.

[Golf-Junkie]

Im probably a 15 now (playing up from a 4)...

Every month our club has a skins game, big guns come out of the woodwork for that. usually 5 - 8K in the pot, so its a competitive event.

The guy who runs it is a + player. Senior. Played with him a couple of times. He qualifies regularly for the senior majors (last was British Senior, won low amateur honors)...

[Roemike99]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1394091252' post='8809667']
First of all, I'm assuming that the best amateur player at your club is a male, but if it's a female, good for her. More interested in the male players, though, because that's who we compare ourselves to.

I'd like to know:

1) What is your current index
2) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school?
3) What is his index (or a guesstimate)?
4) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume?
5) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds?
6) What have you learned from playing with him?
7) If you haven't played with him, why have you not?
8) If you thought he would say yes to playing with you, would that make a difference in you asking to play with him?

I have a hunch about the answers to these questions, and I'm asking them with something in mind, which I'll get to later....
[/quote] I play every week with a 39 year old who won 100 times as a professional. Mostly Pro Ams and some Ontario stuff. He has a gear that is unreal. He can shoot 65 on any given day from the tips. He made me better just by watching him. I learned to go with whatever you are doing well that day. And to trust your instincts and your swing. He does not care about keeping an index but I would say he is a plus 3 easy. Unfortunately he developed tournament yips and quit playing for a living.... I went from shooting in the 60's once is 2012 to 11 times last year, and it is all because I have to, or else get stomped.

[DJ Aus]

1) 2.5
2)
3) +3 (has been +5)
4) State and National Mid-Am titles
5) 6+
6) he is a nice guy that hits fairways and greens, has a 10 cent piece wear mark on his irons
7) N/A
8) He plays with anyone

[J-Rod11]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1394109813' post='8810075']
In an gross over-generalization, I find the guys I'm least likely to enjoy playing with, are 12-18 HC's who are convinced they're one quick lesson away from being Scratch
[/quote]

I'm in that range, and I'm a delight to play with! I'm not a lesson away from Scratch, but have been 1 duffed shot away from breaking 80 several times! haha

I'm not a club member either, at age 28, but it's interesting to hear you all describe such talented amateurs.

If I could add one more question to the list, it would be: What do these obviously very talented amateurs believe keeps them from the tour? Time? Age? Money? Something else?

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Two common fantasies are that

1) Being a good player is a matter of "figuring out" a series of problems in your game (i.e. that knowledge is the cure) or that

2) it is just a matter of putting in enough hours "digging it out of the dirt" (i.e. that time spent practicing is the cure)

In fact, a certain amount of knowledge is needed and becoming a good player is certainly going to take a substantial time commitment. But those things alone won't get it done or there would be +3 handicaps on every street corner.

[BenSeattle]

A buddy of mine down in Texas tells me he picked up a game with John Grace, a guy who lost to Jerry Pate in the 1974 U.S. Amateur. Now in his mid-60's Grace is about 5-feet-6, 150 pounds. My friend said he hit every fairway, nearly every green and put the ball within 10 feet a half-dozen times. Made half those for a bogey-free 6-under par 66, probably not the first 66 he's ever short. Grace is a 17-time Club Champion at Shady Oaks, Hogan's hangout.

Would you take [u]his[/u] game? Right now?

[bogeypro]

Honestly, many of the "good" players I have met through the years tend to have one thing in common....they think highly of themselves and take the game way too seriously. I fall into the the group of scratch to 5 handicaps that have a little natural abilities, could be better if I took it more serious, and had opportunity to pratice more....I just like to enjoy being outside and enjoy hanging with the guys and playing a little golf.



1) What is your current index? GHIN says 0.0, but really playing like about a 3 right now.
2) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school? We have several + handis, I think might have tried mini tours in the past but didn't make it for various reasons (money, time, family, etc...)
3) What is his index (or a guesstimate)? they are probably anywhere from +3 to scratch now.
4) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume? none that I know of
5) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds? yes, several through the years
6) What have you learned from playing with him? confidence and not playing to screw up, but focusing on a shot and committing to it.

[SurfDuffer]

I play pretty regular with a couple of the top guys at my club. +3 to 1. What I've learned is how much my short game and putting suck. Everything else I'm right there with them.

Played a few holes with the +3 this week. On one hole he makes par from being short sided in a bunker where I might have gotten up and down 1 in 10 tries and he made it look easy. I make easy par. It was as if he won the hole though.

Another hole he has tree trouble off the tee. He hits a punch to a spot 10 yards in front of the green. From there he hits a perfect pitch and makes par easily. I play the hole perfectly tee to green and 3-putt from pin high 10 feet.

Par 5 he birdies easily. I bugger up this hole off the tee and make bogey. Difference is he's not hitting it great and is still -1 while I'm hitting it pretty good and am at +2 through 6 holes.

[CowtownTexas]

[quote name='BenSeattle' timestamp='1394739193' post='8864593']
A buddy of mine down in Texas tells me he picked up a game with John Grace, a guy who lost to Jerry Pate in the 1974 U.S. Amateur. Now in his mid-60's Grace is about 5-feet-6, 150 pounds. My friend said he hit every fairway, nearly every green and put the ball within 10 feet a half-dozen times. Made half those for a bogey-free 6-under par 66, probably not the first 66 he's ever short. Grace is a 17-time Club Champion at Shady Oaks, Hogan's hangout.

Would you take [u]his[/u] game? Right now?
[/quote]

I've seen John play many times and may have been paired with him in a member-guest once several years ago. He's a very, very good player. I think he turned pro and played some senior events in Europe in his 50's.

There are many good amateur players in Fort Worth with the highest concentration likely at Mira Vista. Shady still has many as well, as do Colonial and Ridglea.

As to the original questions, that's too many to list. I play in a couple of different games at my club and we have everything from Tour players to great amateurs to guys who can't break 100, with most guys being mid to high single digit indexes. We make the tour guys play to plus 4 and everyone else just plays to their normal handicap. Everyone has fun and I don't think anyone feels ripped off. As for who I've played with, I've played with them all.

Lowest index at our club is somewhere around a plus 6. I've played with him and don't see it.

[300_yard_drives]

I was the best amateur at my club before I turned pro, but now there really isnt anyone who is a true + handicap. I had an index of +4.5 before I turned pro. the best senior is a 90+ year old man named Chester. Chester grew up caddying at the historic The Country Club in Brookside, Massachusetts. At the age of 90 he was a 15 index, but he has tied or broke his own age an estimated 2,500+ rounds. He has told me some amazing stories about caddying for Babe Zaharias and a few famous others. I actually have learned a few things from Chester, and he has one of the best wedge games from 30-60 yards that I have ever seen. Maybe not exactly what you were looking for, but he was an single digit handicap until age 87 I believe.

[MtlJeff]

I list my handicap as 1 because i don't want to change it every week LOL. But beginning and end of the season i can get up to around 2. Mid-Season i'll get down to sub 1 in a good year. Last year i was a 1....a couple of years ago i was a 0.2 or something in July...

Anyway, i've played with a lot of good players, though no PGA pros. I've played with a couple of guys who've played on the Canadian Tour (one of them i shot better then him that day! Woohooo!). I play quasi regularly with a couple of guys who've finished top 5 in our provincial mid-am. I've played with a guy who is one of the top senior amateurs in Canada. A few years back i played in an interclub against 2 guys who both shot under par and made 1 bogey combined over 15 holes...haha. Though i still scrapped 2 point out of that one somehow

I started golf later in life. The thing i learned from these guys is that your score is all that matters. It's great to say i should've done this or that, or if i'd only done this...or i drive it this far or whatever. These guys don't care at all. Just about what you shoot.....Not to say they are not great guys who will have beers with you after the round, or won't play with 15 caps or anything. Most of them are really good guys. I just mean they aren't big self promoters

[deadsolid...shank]

) What is your current index: 4.4 End of the year would probably have been around 2, the way this year is starting, probably should be 10
2) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school? Two, one former pro, one still senior pro
3) What is his index (or a guesstimate)? Probably about +3 for the former pro and scratch to +1 or 2 for the senior.
4) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume? The senior has a top ten in the Senior US Open
5) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds? Just a couple with each.
6) What have you learned from playing with him? How solid they hit it every time, and how good they are around the greens.
7) If you haven't played with him, why have you not?
8) If you thought he would say yes to playing with you, would that make a difference in you asking to play with him? N/A. Both are good guys and will play with most anyone.

[dxb]

1) What is your current index
1.3
2) Who is the best amateur at your club that isn't in college or high school?
My Scratch team and club match play partner
3) What is his index (or a guesstimate)?
+1.7 I think
4) Does he have any wins or solid amateur finishes (or professional if this is a former pro who regained his amateur status) on his resume?
Few local Am circuit wins
5) Have you ever played with him, and if so, how many rounds?
Lots
6) What have you learned from playing with him?
There are very few people I see on a course that genuinely hit shots which amaze me. He is one of those. When he goes into 'beast mode' it's impressive, Friday just gone he went out in 3 over, then birdied 4 of first 6 holes on back 9 to come back in 1 under.
7) If you haven't played with him, why have you not?
n/a
8) If you thought he would say yes to playing with you, would that make a difference in you asking to play with him?
n/a

If we look at more 'senior' guys (myself and guy I talk about above are early/mid 30's) then there is a guy who is scratch at age 60, played against him on the Friday round referenced above. He hits it 'nowhere', his driver probably goes same length as my 3 iron but he is deadly straight and the competitive fire still burns bright in him, raises his game when he needs to. I almost always assume he is going to get up and down when he has his hybrid in his hand!

[Ballgofarboy]

[color=#ff0000][size=5]I cannot believe that no one posted, ahh best golfer at my club? That would be ME. Play with myself all the time[/size][/color]!

I play at the two city muni courses. There is not a lot of tournament play and a lot of through traffic of guys passing through. The HCP system was stoneage here, you go in and record your own scores on paper, then the course computes them on a monthly basis. They are going to a computer system in a month or two. However the number of guys keeping a HCP is around 28. Not very many but then again there is not much tournament play or need for an HCP.

Why exclude HS and College players? I have met old farts that can whip the heck out of the kids playing from their tees.

The best HCP on the books is a 2.8 index, however I have never seen this guy play or even be out there. I am a 3.4 index. I am sure there are other guys out there that play at this course that are much better but they are not in the books so it is hard to make a judgement.

As for playing with guys better than me, does not happen often, however I have played with better putters or drivers of the ball and in those cases I tend to step back and look at how they approach shots, read the green or just have the guts to hit the shot without reservation. You can learn from ANYONE, regardless of their proficiency at the game.