Is Cost A Detriment To The Game! Or Is Just The Lack Of Time? * Poll Inside *

[Medic]

The trouble is that we live in a "got to have it now" and "instant gratification" world. Add to this the electronic factor and people simply don't have an interest. Why?

Because they try it after watching DJ hit a 340 yard drive making it look SO easy and figure that they can do the same. They borrow some equipment (or buy something to hit), hit the range or the course, and find out how HARD the game actually is. And when they cannot make one single par much less a decent shot they lose interest. There is no "instant gratification" for them and they recognize that it will take a long time and a lot of commitment to truly become a decent player.

Many of the people I work with have said this:
"I tried it and didn't like it. Was way too hard and just wasn't fun to me."

Sadly there is no answer to this. In our "Everyone gets a trophy" society people simply don't have the patience it will take to get better. Those raised in that type of an atmosphere aren't used to being told they are not good at something and golf tells new golfers this on its own.

[Roemike99]

[quote name='DirecTVTechGuy' timestamp='1394245881' post='8823355']
Ok, a major factor in the decline of Golf is the cost.

This is just my opinion, it's a heartfelt, solid belief that the cost of Golf... The equipment, the course fees, the accessories, all the items you need to play... Is costing the game future generations of players...

There has been a decline of fresh players..

What say you WRX...

Agree... Disagree...

Keep it civil please.

It's not hard to disagree without being disrespectful

Try it.


Edit: We're going to Edit just a touch... Looks like the Fellas disagreeing are calling it a time factor...
[/quote] I think time is an issue because courses got too tough for the recreational players. Courses popped up like crazy because of the Eldrick factor and they were trying to outdo each other. Crazy green complexes, water everywhere, and my personal fave... environmental areas!! Which is a fancy way of saying we don't want to pay kids to use a weedeater. People came to the game in a new way, not the traditional (my father taught me) way. A lot of them were awful and did not know the etiquette. I think 6 hour rounds ruin things for most players, not cost...

[snookybusby]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1394505567' post='8844633']
The trouble is that we live in a "got to have it now" and "instant gratification" world. Add to this the electronic factor and people simply don't have an interest. Why?

Because they try it after watching DJ hit a 340 yard drive making it look SO easy and figure that they can do the same. They borrow some equipment (or buy something to hit), hit the range or the course, and find out how HARD the game actually is. And when they cannot make one single par much less a decent shot they lose interest. There is no "instant gratification" for them and they recognize that it will take a long time and a lot of commitment to truly become a decent player.

Many of the people I work with have said this:
"I tried it and didn't like it. Was way too hard and just wasn't fun to me."

Sadly there is no answer to this. In our "Everyone gets a trophy" society people simply don't have the patience it will take to get better. Those raised in that type of an atmosphere aren't used to being told they are not good at something and golf tells new golfers this on its own.
[/quote]

I think this is true. There are not many sports where this is the case. I mean you can go out with a basketball your first time and make a free throw or a 3 point shot. That is not to say that you could play the game or that golf is harder than basketball...only that you can do something that you can see on tv, or at least something that you have seen other players do. I suppose in golf you could putt and have some instant gratification. But in large part, how many rounds would it take for you to even hit a 240-50 yard drive right down the center. Or 200, or whatever the case may be. The important point being a nice drive that you feel resembles something you've seen another player do. Not to mention the playing field changes every day with tee boxes and wind and grass...unlike many other sports. So, medic is really right on that it takes a long time before you can have some success. And any doubts to this will be laid to rest when you take someone to the range for the first time. First they will keep asking you if, "that was good?" And then you will try to compliment them on many shots where maybe they hit a PW 60 yards for their first time and made ok contact but it went straight right. But still they got it in the air and it resembled a pitching wedge shot. Usually he/she will say, "uh, but that stinks, I wanna hit it like you, or that guy, or like the pros." They are frustrated that they can't hit it like they have seen others hit it, and yet it is an amazing accomplishment just for them to get it up in the air. But they don't see that...they want to hit just 1 out of 100 shots like they have seen someone else do who regularly plays the game. It just isn't so easy. I mean think about taking 100 free throws and never making a single one. Probably wouldn't wanna play basketball...lol.

[TexMex36]

I think people would rather spend a lot of money towards something that isn't as hard or time consuming as golf. I am a pretty good player because I would hit balls for 3-4 hours a day after school. Not everyone gets that much time to do anything. So I guess it's a bit of both.

[geesecougar2]

If you're good enough to have fun playing, then the cost is not as big of a deal.

But it takes time and money to get good enough to have fun. And the less talent you have, the more time and money it takes.

[cmossotti]

[quote name='geesecougar2' timestamp='1394507476' post='8844857']
If you're good enough to have fun playing, then the cost is not as big of a deal.

But it takes time and money to get good enough to have fun. And the less talent you have, the more time and money it takes.
[/quote]

I agree with this statement geese. I voted for both time and money being a factor. I think the younger crowd 18-27 want to go out and blow a bunch of money at the bar on a weekend. Not only does that mean they dont have any extra money, it prolly means they wake up all hungover sleeping in until god knows when and prolly dont feel like spending 4 hours on a golf course the next day. Not judging them at all to each his own. Ill go out occasionaly, but I have a group of friends/ inlaws that are literally going out to the bars every weekend. Im sure they arent the only ones.

Its a tough sport for both time and money. I think its hard to give a definitive answer because look at it this way:

18 year old kid has all the time in the world cause he/she has no job but they dont have money to play

30 year old has a family, has the money but no time to play
;

[RainShadow]

[quote name='DirecTVTechGuy' timestamp='1394246508' post='8823409']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1394246224' post='8823381']
The price of golf is cheaper now than it has ever been.

On the other hand, people are by and large poorer than they were.

So the cost is prohibitive. But is it expensive? I don't think so.

That is my opinion anyway.
[/quote]

Pushing 300.00 for Shoes... 500.00 for a Driver... 1100.00 for a set of irons...

Not sure I can agree it's cheaper now....

And I realize buying used saves money..,

But imagine someone who knows nothing.... Says to himself... " Let's hit GG and take up a new hobby "

Good god he could be a few thousand deep before ever having struck a ball...

That's my basis for my opinion...

Thanks for participating man! Appreciate the input!
[/quote]
Well, there's plenty of inexpensive used gear out there.
Sure, equipment can be very expensive, but it generally lasts along time ( unless you're a Wrx type ho) irons are good for 4-4 years at least depending where you live.
What I really find expensive is the cost to play some muni or resort courses that are really not that great. $45 to walk for a goat ranch that doesn't mow their greens daily or have sand in the bunkers is insane !
And that's the majority of the public courses around here

[geesecougar2]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1394505567' post='8844633']
The trouble is that we live in a "got to have it now" and "instant gratification" world. Add to this the electronic factor and people simply don't have an interest. Why?

Because they try it after watching DJ hit a 340 yard drive making it look SO easy and figure that they can do the same. They borrow some equipment (or buy something to hit), hit the range or the course, and find out how HARD the game actually is. And when they cannot make one single par much less a decent shot they lose interest. There is no "instant gratification" for them and they recognize that it will take a long time and a lot of commitment to truly become a decent player.

Many of the people I work with have said this:
"I tried it and didn't like it. Was way too hard and just wasn't fun to me."

Sadly there is no answer to this. In our "Everyone gets a trophy" society people simply don't have the patience it will take to get better. Those raised in that type of an atmosphere aren't used to being told they are not good at something and golf tells new golfers this on its own.
[/quote]

I don't think it's an issue with instant gratification. Most of us here who love golf got started at a young age. New things come easier when you're young, and golf is cheaper when you're a junior. We who love golf are not more disciplined, or have more patience, or any of that stuff that we would like to pat ourselves on the back for. We simply caught the bug early when we were more susceptible to it.

Even a college aged kid is going to have a much tougher time learning golf compared to a 10 year old, someone in their late 20's or early 30's tougher still. You add the cost of lessons, range balls, clubs, greens fees, and factor in the opportunity cost of all the other entertainment options we have nowadays, I can't blame them for not sticking with it.

[dan360]

Cost is not a factor, unless you must have brand new stuff and only allow yourself to play at expensive golf courses.

Time is a big factor.

[somaplr]

[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1394247755' post='8823529']
[quote name='DirecTVTechGuy' timestamp='1394246508' post='8823409']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1394246224' post='8823381']
The price of golf is cheaper now than it has ever been.

On the other hand, people are by and large poorer than they were.

So the cost is prohibitive. But is it expensive? I don't think so.

That is my opinion anyway.
[/quote]

Pushing 300.00 for Shoes... 500.00 for a Driver... 1100.00 for a set of irons...

Not sure I can agree it's cheaper now....

And I realize buying used saves money..,

But imagine someone who knows nothing.... Says to himself... " Let's hit GG and take up a new hobby "

Good god he could be a few thousand deep before ever having struck a ball...

That's my basis for my opinion...

Thanks for participating man! Appreciate the input!
[/quote]

When I started 30 years ago, the price for 9 holes at the muni was $6. I was back about 6 years ago, and the price had increased to $9. So in 25 years the price increased 50%. Standard CPI says is should have increased much more than that.

The internet makes equipment purchasing easier and less expensive.

It is cheaper now comparatively to prior eras.

But, people truly are poorer than they were even 20 years ago when it comes to purchasing power.

I truly believe that.

I see what you are saying, but very few enter the game and buy FJ Icons and the R11s.
[/quote]

Not according to data they are not. The income gap between the wealthy and middle class has gotten wider, but 50% of Americans are more wealthy than their parents at the same age (indexed for CPI), and it could be as high as 84%.

[url="http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_report_detail.aspx?id=85899403846&WT.rss_ev=f&WT.rss_f=Expert%20Feed%20:%20Erin%20Currier&WT.rss_a=Pursuing%20the%20American%20Dream:%20Economic%20Mobility%20Across%20Generations&WT.z_contenttype=Report"]http://www.pewtrusts...tenttype=Report[/url]

[url="http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/11/84-percent-of-americans-are-richer-than"]http://reason.com/bl...are-richer-than[/url]

Golf just isn't a priority for people like it used to be - people are just spending their discretionary income on different things.

[DevilDog]

I would say it is both but cost is the driving factor. When the economy was chugging along well in the 90s, golf exploded. People weren't paying 3-4 bucks a gallon for gas. Just a dollar a gallon. Employment was full. Food prices were down. Then, somewhere along the 2000s, energy prices shot up and it drove up the cost of everything else including golf. Then unemployment set in and you had the double whammy in terms of golf participation. This same thing happened in the 70s. Golf participation dropped dramatically when oil prices went up and employment got crappy.

I also think time is a factor. Back in the 70s and 80s, a slow round was 4 hours. Now, an average round at many courses is 4.5 to 5 hours. That's insane. Part of it is the course architecture being too hard for many players and the other problem is the player. I see a lot of people walking around putts on the green when they are putting for a freaking double bogey like they are putting for the Masters win. I have seen egomaniacs that think they can bomb a ball a lot further than they can so they wait on par 5s for the green to clear from 280 yards out. I've seen people in carts all drive to one shot. Then all drive to the next shot and so on instead of dropping the closest person off first then driving on to the other ball. When it is a foursome this sort of thing gets really slow. Next, is the ridiculous number of practice swings people take now. I have no trouble shooting par and NEVER take a practice swing. If you haven't got it before you get on the course, you aren't magically going to get it on the course with a practice swing. And finally, there are a lot more jerks on the course than there used to be. Won't let people play through and get offended if you catch up to them and ask to go through even though the entire course is open ahead.

So in the end cost is a huge factor and slow play or time is becoming a larger factor.

[Petethreeput]

[quote name='RainShadow' timestamp='1394516474' post='8845633']
[quote name='DirecTVTechGuy' timestamp='1394246508' post='8823409']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1394246224' post='8823381']
The price of golf is cheaper now than it has ever been.

On the other hand, people are by and large poorer than they were.

So the cost is prohibitive. But is it expensive? I don't think so.

That is my opinion anyway.
[/quote]

Pushing 300.00 for Shoes... 500.00 for a Driver... 1100.00 for a set of irons...

Not sure I can agree it's cheaper now....

And I realize buying used saves money..,

But imagine someone who knows nothing.... Says to himself... " Let's hit GG and take up a new hobby "

Good god he could be a few thousand deep before ever having struck a ball...

That's my basis for my opinion...

Thanks for participating man! Appreciate the input!
[/quote]
Well, there's plenty of inexpensive used gear out there.
Sure, equipment can be very expensive, but it generally lasts along time ( unless you're a Wrx type ho) irons are good for 4-4 years at least depending where you live.
What I really find expensive is the cost to play some muni or resort courses that are really not that great. $45 to walk for a goat ranch that doesn't mow their greens daily or have sand in the bunkers is insane !
And that's the majority of the public courses around here
[/quote]

I cannot refute Pew statistically, but just as those figures indicate more gross income for adjusted income, there are many other studies indicating that the American (and developed world) folks by and large are actually falling back in response to prices. If someone had told me in 1993 when I first moved out of my house I would be paying $160/ month on a phone, or that my cable bill would be what it is (and I have a cruddy package), or that my house had to have internet and wifi and all the other stuff, I would have told them they were crazy.

This is why I believe that though golf is less expensive today compared to the past, it is becoming unreachable for a larger portion of the population.

I am not saying I am right and Pew is wrong (or you by proxy), but rather most other outlets are bemoaning a lack of purchasing power by the majority.

[needfasp3ed]

Honestly I would have added "culture" to the options as what turns a lot of new golfers off to the sport. Golf has the same problem as the Republican Party and baseball, they are struggling to adapt with society. Note: That isn't a shot at republicans or baseball (I vote republican). A lot of people view the stereotypical golfer as an old drunk guy yelling "get off my lawn" to the 16 year old who keeps shanking his driver. I mean jeesh, some of the threads I see on here are very similiar to that exact statement. We want to invite more people to the game, but yet we hop on WRX to complain when a father teaching his young daughter in front of you adds 20 minutes to your round.

Just something different to add to the topic.

[arnold palmtree]

[quote name='needfasp3ed' timestamp='1394578525' post='8850781']
Honestly I would have added "culture" to the options as what turns a lot of new golfers off to the sport. Golf has the same problem as the Republican Party and baseball, they are struggling to adapt with society. Note: That isn't a shot at republicans or baseball (I vote republican). A lot of people view the stereotypical golfer as an old drunk guy yelling "get off my lawn" to the 16 year old who keeps shanking his driver. I mean jeesh, some of the threads I see on here are very similiar to that exact statement. We want to invite more people to the game, but yet we hop on WRX to complain when a father teaching his young daughter in front of you adds 20 minutes to your round.

Just something different to add to the topic.
[/quote]

Great post. It appears the majority of folks on here actually want fewer players.

[SatelliteGuy]

[quote name='arnold palmtree' timestamp='1394579352' post='8850865']
[quote name='needfasp3ed' timestamp='1394578525' post='8850781']
Honestly I would have added "culture" to the options as what turns a lot of new golfers off to the sport. Golf has the same problem as the Republican Party and baseball, they are struggling to adapt with society. Note: That isn't a shot at republicans or baseball (I vote republican). A lot of people view the stereotypical golfer as an old drunk guy yelling "get off my lawn" to the 16 year old who keeps shanking his driver. I mean jeesh, some of the threads I see on here are very similiar to that exact statement. We want to invite more people to the game, but yet we hop on WRX to complain when a father teaching his young daughter in front of you adds 20 minutes to your round.

Just something different to add to the topic.
[/quote]

Great post. It appears the majority of folks on here actually want fewer players.
[/quote]

I don't actually mind 4/5 hour rounds as long as everyone is golfing.... Standing around being ridiculous is one thing.... But I like the social aspect of golf assist as much as dunking an approach on a par 4

[Agent Jim]

Its all about life choices in my opinion also. I don't have a great paying job; I net around 31k a year. I have made a life choice not to have kids though. I am also not dating anyone right now, so that means I can golf a few times a week and not worry about the costs.

[RainShadow]

Most any recreation is expensive and time consuming.
When I was a kid, you could go to the beach and surf all day for free. Surfboards were about 2-300 bucks for a new custom shape that you rode for 3-4 years,Now they're 7-800$ and are easily broken. Wetsuit was 130-200$, now 220-300$. Now they want 10-15 bucks just to park. And a good day surfing is still most of the day (time)
Try skiing or snowboarding, that's pretty pricey as well, 70-100$ lift ticket, gear(even rentals) and time makes it equal to or more than golf.
What keeps golf from being more popular is that it's hard to get good at, and most people don't continue long in activities that they struggle with.

[T NeL]

Both come into play for me. I'm always looking for hot deals or coupons before every round and on Saturdays I like playing as early as possible so the entire day isn't gone when we finish.

[resnor]

There plenty of people who also don't ski due to the cost. I live in New Hampshire, and I can tell you, the cost of both sports is prohibitive. Sure, time is a factor, but the cost is killer for people.

[jvalhalla]

I'm military and have been fortunate to have been in places with solid military courses and inexpensive memberships. If I had to pay $100 a round, I'd probably be out of the game. I've been smart with my money and could afford it...but I couldn't justify spending $200-300 in a typical week nor would I purchase a membership that cost me more than $200 a month.

I agree that the cost of equipment isn't prohibitive. you can find lots of good, new stuff (last years models) or sweet used stuff for cheap. The cost of rounds has been slowly creeping up but you can still find reasonable fees at most munis. What concerns me is the financial situations of many communities. Golf courses are expensive and it won't surprise me if we start seeing more public courses raise their rates or close. One thing that I have noticed that seems to have gone way up is the cost of a bucket of range balls. The closest range to me, a course owned by a university, charges $8.

[coffee]

I think as age goes up it switches.
At younger ages the money is a factor, I know I'm 22 and have to make sure to save so i have enough money to get gas, and to pay for 9-18 holes, even 10$ at a range can be trying.
But I feel like as you move up in age (assuming money becomes a little bit less of a factor as careers progress) time becomes more of an issue, with job responsibilities increasing, families, etc.
Right now I have 3 days off and wish I could golf every day I had off, but can't afford it. But once I have a better job, and less time off, the money won't be as much of an issue, and finding the time will be.

[cb24]

Probably depends where you are at. Here in southern cal greens fees are very expensive so that is my biggest hurdle

[Upgrayedd]

I understand the "time" people. Kids, work, whatever. But for most everyone else it is priorities. Cable television costs more than a club membership. Video games, cell phones, etc., all cost money. The problem for a bunch of people is that they don't want to put in the work that it takes to attain a certain level of proficiency. Some are just lazy. Look at who attends golf tournaments. Come on! A good half of those people never swung a club in their lives, but they have no problem forking over the money to watch someone else do it. Others merely prefer other sports. Mostly though I say it is people's priorities. For most playing golf regularly just isn't very high on their "to do" list.

[cb24]

[quote name='Upgrayedd' timestamp='1395345153' post='8912661']
I understand the "time" people. Kids, work, whatever. But for most everyone else it is priorities. Cable television costs more than a club membership. Video games, cell phones, etc., all cost money. The problem for a bunch of people is that they don't want to put in the work that it takes to attain a certain level of proficiency. Some are just lazy. Look at who attends golf tournaments. Come on! A good half of those people never swung a club in their lives, but they have no problem forking over the money to watch someone else do it. Others merely prefer other sports. Mostly though I say it is people's priorities. For most playing golf regularly just isn't very high on their "to do" list.
[/quote]

If a golf membership in SoCal was the same cost as cable I would have two

[SatelliteGuy]

There's two Muni's in my area that are a 1000.00 a year... So I definately get the point on that one...

But I would said a VAST majority of Golfers won't find a Membership for the yearly cost of cable....

You can get a decent package of programming for one/two televisions for about 500.00 a year...

[dan360]

What are the prices like in SoCal, for say an 18 hole round of golf at a "meh" golf course? Not a fancy place, just a run-of-the-mill local golf course, with possibly questionable mowing schedules and really bad 70's carpet in the pro shop.

$50? $100?

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

The OP's lack of knowledge of grammar is a detriment to the English language.

[SoCalTitleist]

[quote name='dan360' timestamp='1395370913' post='8915593']
What are the prices like in SoCal, for say an 18 hole round of golf at a "meh" golf course? Not a fancy place, just a run-of-the-mill local golf course, with possibly questionable mowing schedules and really bad 70's carpet in the pro shop.

$50? $100?
[/quote]

50-60$ weekends when most of us only have the time to play.

[Schnee]

[quote name='DirecTVTechGuy' timestamp='1395370783' post='8915569']
There's two Muni's in my area that are a 1000.00 a year... So I definately get the point on that one...

But I would said a VAST majority of Golfers won't find a Membership for the yearly cost of cable....

You can get a decent package of programming for one/two televisions for about 500.00 a year...
[/quote]


I'm definitely spoiled by my home course. Semi-private and was able to get in as a member last year. The wait list was just purged and that's how I got in but normally it's a 10+ year wait, only about 150 members. I'm the youngest full member at 22. I camped out at 1am for an 8:00 registration time. When I got there, I was the 13th guy in line. They only took 14 new members last year. Whew! For $~600 a year you can't go wrong. Unlimited golf on a pristine Donald Ross design in the Adirondacks. Can't beat it with a 1 iron.

[SatelliteGuy]

[quote name='Rock Chalk Jayhawk' timestamp='1395371438' post='8915645']
The OP's lack of knowledge of grammar is a detriment to the English language.
[/quote]

Fantastic Contribution to the Topic!!

It must be lonely over there.

Have a wonderful day!

Oh...

One more thing...

And this is EXACTLY what I have to tell my wife on a regular basis....

If you understood the point of my statement and all you have to say in response is a jab at my use of the English language....

You make yourself look simple.

But by all means...

Go forth my friend! Celebrate and Rejoice!

You won the Grammar Contest...

( P.S. I didn't know we were competing. )