Heavier shaft in shortened driver to increase swingweight

[Ranchobob]

I've opined about cutting down the driver shaft length before and using lead tape to unsuccessfully get the swingweight back to where it "should" be. My experience was that putting lead tape on the bottom of the driver didn't help. Instead, it felt like there was a bowling ball at the end of the shaft.

 

My thought is that the swingweight is off because the shaft component isn't adjusted, just the head.

 

My R11S has an Aldila NVS 65 in it and I'm thinking that going to the same shaft (or a more appropriate shaft for my swing that doesn't cost $200+) but 20 grams or so heavier could be a big step in the right direction.

 

Thoughts?

 

(For the record, I did Google to no avail, though I did find a swingweight calculator. I'll need to pull the head and weigh the adapter before I can go that route, though.)

 

 

 

[sanjaygolf]

I personally wouldn't increase shaft weight just to accommodate swing weight. 20g is a big jump and will play a lot different than just altering the swing weight would.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394639747' post='8855699']
My experience was that putting lead tape on the bottom of the driver didn't help. Instead, it felt like there was a bowling ball at the end of the shaft.
[/quote]

All that means is that it's really not simply a heavier SW that you're after. Or you added more than you needed.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394639747' post='8855699']
My thought is that the swingweight is off because the shaft component isn't adjusted, just the head.
[/quote]

It's not the swing weight that's off but rather how your perception of what you want was translated to the SW scale by you.

Adding weight to the head is the most effective way to increase SW but SW is not the be-all and end-all of the 'heavyness' or 'weight' of what you feel. Static weight can also be important. If you want the feel of a heavier static weight, then going up in weight with the shaft is the most typical way to do that. Two different ways to change weight with two different results. Everybody has different levels of sensitivity to each and will have different needs when it comes to adjusting for a shorter club.

Did you try it at the shorter w/o adding any weight to the head?

Dont' assume that if a particular SW worked well for you at the longer length that you'll 'need' the same SW at the shorter length.

[snook...]

experimenting with 43 inch driver.

old ping rapture v2 9 degree with stock 63 blue board stiff.

head weighed 195, added 20 grams.

to compensate tipped shaft 1 inch. for every 2.5 grams tipped 1/8 inch. (old Howard Jones thread is where i got that)

so far so good, has been in the bag for the past 3 weeks.

next will be ping anser 10.5 head with phenom 50 shaft...what the hell.

[jah7838]

You could always add one of these to the tip of the shaft when you install. I just cut down my driver in my r11s as well, and one of these worked great. I didn't want to add a bunch of weight to the head, and this was the simpler option for me. [url="http://www.golfworks.com/productnew.asp_Q_pn_E_GW0121"]http://www.golfworks.com/productnew.asp_Q_pn_E_GW0121[/url]

[canonlbp430]

Different shaft lengths at the same swing weight will feel different in your hands. As you change the length of the same club it will need to be at a lighter swing weight to feel the same.

[Ranchobob]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1394640540' post='8855825']
[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394639747' post='8855699']
My experience was that putting lead tape on the bottom of the driver didn't help. Instead, it felt like there was a bowling ball at the end of the shaft.
[/quote]

All that means is that it's really not simply a heavier SW that you're after. Or you added more than you needed.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394639747' post='8855699']
My thought is that the swingweight is off because the shaft component isn't adjusted, just the head.
[/quote]

It's not the swing weight that's off but rather how your perception of what you want was translated to the SW scale by you.

Adding weight to the head is the most effective way to increase SW but SW is not the be-all and end-all of the 'heavyness' or 'weight' of what you feel. Static weight can also be important. If you want the feel of a heavier static weight, then going up in weight with the shaft is the most typical way to do that. Two different ways to change weight with two different results. Everybody has different levels of sensitivity to each and will have different needs when it comes to adjusting for a shorter club.

Did you try it at the shorter w/o adding any weight to the head?

Dont' assume that if a particular SW worked well for you at the longer length that you'll 'need' the same SW at the shorter length.
[/quote]

I tried a few different things. At first I tried it with no added weight at all. Felt really light--and it was; about C8 or so. Then I added some lead tape and some more lead tape and even went to heavier TM weights in the head. I wasn't able to get it all the weigh...errrr, way to D2 which is where it started.

Really I suppose I should be thinking about this as an MOI equation rather than a swingweight equation. And maybe 20 grams is too much, but I'm not sure.

I had Ron Burleson with Corona Custom Golf check the MOI on a few of my clubs. He got:

Driver- 2652
3 wood- 2782
5 wood- 2784

The 3 wood is a Wishon, the 5 wood a TM and the driver is my shortened R11s.

I think I'll spend some time with Tutelman's page ([url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swingwt2.php"]http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swingwt2.php[/url]), my scale and a calculator tonight.

[spires1020]

If you try adding all of that weight back via lead tape/tip weights, the club will not only feel off, but the effective stiffness of the shaft will be weakened as well.

I'm a staunch proponent of heavy shafts, since whatever distance a golfer *might* gain swinging a lighter club is going to decrease accuracy. A heavier shaft promotes a stable swing, a lighter shaft does not.

My suggestion is to find a heavier shaft, somewhere between 75-85 grams depending on how much you plan on shortening the shaft. Another thing to keep in mind is the balance point of the shaft, as that will also significantly affect the swing weight.

[dcr147]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1394640540' post='8855825']
[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394639747' post='8855699']
My experience was that putting lead tape on the bottom of the driver didn't help. Instead, it felt like there was a bowling ball at the end of the shaft.
[/quote]

All that means is that it's really not simply a heavier SW that you're after. Or you added more than you needed.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394639747' post='8855699']
My thought is that the swingweight is off because the shaft component isn't adjusted, just the head.
[/quote]

It's not the swing weight that's off but rather how your perception of what you want was translated to the SW scale by you.

Adding weight to the head is the most effective way to increase SW but SW is not the be-all and end-all of the 'heavyness' or 'weight' of what you feel. Static weight can also be important. If you want the feel of a heavier static weight, then going up in weight with the shaft is the most typical way to do that. Two different ways to change weight with two different results. Everybody has different levels of sensitivity to each and will have different needs when it comes to adjusting for a shorter club.

Did you try it at the shorter w/o adding any weight to the head?

Dont' assume that if a particular SW worked well for you at the longer length that you'll 'need' the same SW at the shorter length.
[/quote]That's a great point. Not all SW's do work with different total weights.

[rybo]

Within most shaft lines simply going up to a heavier shaft will not change the swingweight very much if at all. There is usually a corresponding change in the balance point of the shafts for the given weights. This is why a 60g shaft and a 90g shaft cut to the same playing length will have pretty close swingweights. Feel totally different. D3 with a 60 gram shaft feels nothing like D3 with a 90 gram shaft.

Overall weight, shaft weight and swingweight are independent fitting parameters and each has a different effect on a golfers swing and ball flight.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394649519' post='8856857']
I tried a few different things. At first I tried it with no added weight at all. Felt really light--and it was; about C8 or so. Then I added some lead tape and some more lead tape and even went to heavier TM weights in the head. I wasn't able to get it all the weigh...errrr, way to D2 which is where it started.
[/quote]

Did you actually hit balls as you were adding weight or just checking it against a SW scale? If it was too light to start before you added and then felt like a bowling ball after you added all the weight, chances are there was some point inbetween that should have felt pretty decent.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394649519' post='8856857']
Really I suppose I should be thinking about this as an MOI equation rather than a swingweight equation. And maybe 20 grams is too much, but I'm not sure.
[/quote]

MOI is one possible way to look at it but even MOI numbers don't always translate well across length changes. My advice is [u]don't think of it as an equation at all[/u]. Just try it and react to what you feel and the results of the ball flight. That's going to be much more trustworthy than anything else. If it feels too light, add weight. If it feels like a bowling ball, take weight off. It does take some time to find the right amount but it's not all that difficult.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394649519' post='8856857']
I think I'll spend some time with Tutelman's page ([url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swingwt2.php"]http://www.tutelman....gn/swingwt2.php[/url]), my scale and a calculator tonight.
[/quote]

Go ahead If you want (I go there a lot myself), but keep all that in the right context. There really is no equation that accurately represents feel for everyone. People are different and have different sensitivities to different changes and different needs.

[Upgrayedd]

I am toying with using a longer grip and choking up instead of cutting it down. It seems to help with the balance on my steel shafted driver.

[rocker40]

I have two shafts that i went to 44.5 inches

Ust vts silver 67g D3
Diamana Blueboard 73 D3

Feel great. Just had to go up on color on 913 weights.

[Ranchobob]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1394654801' post='8857489']
[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394649519' post='8856857']
I tried a few different things. At first I tried it with no added weight at all. Felt really light--and it was; about C8 or so. Then I added some lead tape and some more lead tape and even went to heavier TM weights in the head. I wasn't able to get it all the weigh...errrr, way to D2 which is where it started.
[/quote]

Did you actually hit balls as you were adding weight or just checking it against a SW scale? If it was too light to start before you added and then felt like a bowling ball after you added all the weight, chances are there was some point inbetween that should have felt pretty decent.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394649519' post='8856857']
Really I suppose I should be thinking about this as an MOI equation rather than a swingweight equation. And maybe 20 grams is too much, but I'm not sure.
[/quote]

MOI is one possible way to look at it but even MOI numbers don't always translate well across length changes. My advice is [u]don't think of it as an equation at all[/u]. Just try it and react to what you feel and the results of the ball flight. That's going to be much more trustworthy than anything else. If it feels too light, add weight. If it feels like a bowling ball, take weight off. It does take some time to find the right amount but it's not all that difficult.

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394649519' post='8856857']
I think I'll spend some time with Tutelman's page ([url="http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/swingwt2.php"]http://www.tutelman....gn/swingwt2.php[/url]), my scale and a calculator tonight.
[/quote]

Go ahead If you want (I go there a lot myself), but keep all that in the right context. There really is no equation that accurately represents feel for everyone. People are different and have different sensitivities to different changes and different needs.
[/quote]

Oh, definitely hit balls. Lots of them.

I' not a huge fan of the uber light swingweight, but the lead tape didn't work either.

You're right that it's a feel thing, but the comments about swingweight and shaft weight not going hand in hand surprises me.

Maybe a hand picked Wishon head is in my future. Dunno.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's an interesting dilemma.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394677564' post='8860085']

Oh, definitely hit balls. Lots of them.

I' not a huge fan of the uber light swingweight, but the lead tape didn't work either.

You're right that it's a feel thing, but the comments about swingweight and shaft weight not going hand in hand surprises me.

Maybe a hand picked Wishon head is in my future. Dunno.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's an interesting dilemma.
[/quote]

Well, if you couldn't get the 'right' feel by manipulating head weight, then it's possible that increasing static weight with a heavier shaft might help. You can actually test out that idea before buying a new shaft by adding lead tape to the shaft itself to simulate a heavier shaft. Just wrap it around the shaft about 14" from the butt end of the club. I'd start w/ about 10 grams. This will increase the static weight w/o an increase in SW. You would still need to go through the process of finding the right head weight as well in this new configuration.

[Ri_Redneck]

I like heavier shafts in my shorter drivers. 75-85gms seem ideal to me. YMMV

BT

[Ranchobob]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1394698025' post='8861231']
[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1394677564' post='8860085']

Oh, definitely hit balls. Lots of them.

I' not a huge fan of the uber light swingweight, but the lead tape didn't work either.

You're right that it's a feel thing, but the comments about swingweight and shaft weight not going hand in hand surprises me.

Maybe a hand picked Wishon head is in my future. Dunno.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's an interesting dilemma.
[/quote]

Well, if you couldn't get the 'right' feel by manipulating head weight, then it's possible that increasing static weight with a heavier shaft might help. You can actually test out that idea before buying a new shaft by adding lead tape to the shaft itself to simulate a heavier shaft. Just wrap it around the shaft about 14" from the butt end of the club. I'd start w/ about 10 grams. This will increase the static weight w/o an increase in SW. You would still need to go through the process of finding the right head weight as well in this new configuration.
[/quote]

That is a neat idea. Didn't even occur to me.

Thanks!

[5hort5tuff]

Another easy way yo tip the swing weight scales is by lightening the grip. Throwing on a winn lite can get you back something like 6 swingweight points. Simple and effective.

[Ranchobob]

Thought y'all might find this interesting.

Or not.

I have an old R7 Quad laying around and cut it down last night.

Before: 45", 256CPM, D2
After: 44", 263CPM, C7

I added about 2.5" of lead tape to the sole.

After after: 44", 262CPM, C9

Might spend some range time with both of them. Kind of prefer the look of the Quad to the R11.

[DL4Golf]

I just reshafted a light-headed 9 degree Yonex Nanospeed with a stiff Steelfiber SS85 tipped 3/8 inch. Working very well for me. Eliminates the left, and gives a nice boring flight.
Yes, a little different feel than a 65gram shaft, but all that matters is the result. This Nanospeed is a very straight hitting club also.