3 hour front nine?

[Bingo1976]

Seems like they only penalise teenage asian amateurs, and don't have the cahones to take on actual Pros.

[jons1]

The pga tour is slow, but does it really impact the average weekend warrior? And I get the whole modeling aspect, but how many weekend warriors are really trying to play or act like a pro? The average golfer[size=4] is slow for totally different reasons, like skill and knowledge of the game, not from a long pre-shot routine or testing the wind 5 times.[/size]

[size=4]As far as fixing the issue, it's difficult. The thing is, it's not just hitting shots out on tour. There's external factors like controlling the gallery and similar that slows things down with all the popular groups. There are also slow and painful rulings on almost everything, because players are too afraid of being caught up in a rule implementation mistake. Also, the courses seemed to be getting longer and longer, and it just takes more time overall. Yes, the pre-shot routines have gotten brutal on tour with some guys, but I'm just saying there are other factors. Bottom line, enforce the slow play rules.[/size]

[rockinar]

Zach Johnsons answer the the slow play problem was to "have smaller fields". LOL Hes such a D-bag. Just drop the hammer on these slow player clowns. PGA Tour wont do it. Spineless. They dont do anything about aggressive hecklers either.

[QEight]

So who played slowly if everyone was in position?

[rafal]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1396252592' post='8985015']
So who played slowly if everyone was in position?
[/quote]

"I am not slow, I am DELIBERATE"

-- Eric Cartman

[Lodestone]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1396252592' post='8985015']
So who played slowly if everyone was in position?
[/quote]

Now that's a fair question. Maybe, just maybe, knowing that hitting a good shot, vs. hitting a bad shot, may have life changing consequences makes them careful. Like, "if I hit a 6 iron here, I might win a million dollars, unless I really need to hit a 5 in which case I'm going to go in that water and finish 18th again. Hmmmm…maybe I should think about this…What's that wind doing again??"

[Lundingolfer]

[quote name='Hilldo87' timestamp='1396227804' post='8983325']
It was shocking. I stopped watching them on the 13th, infact I chose to watch Kill Bill vol 2 which I've seen so many times over the golf, that's how bad it was.

The PGA Tour really need to get their fingers out of their asses with this. Punish a couple and the rest will soon start to speed up a bit. Sure these guys are playing for big moneys but i'm sorry, taking an extra minute to wait on the wind calming is laughable!

If I waited on the wind calming down over my shots in Scotland it would take me weeks to finish a round of golf.
[/quote]

Me, I watched River City it was that bad.

In the USA so far they have punished a Chinese and Japanese kid for slow play ...easy targets.........Loupe, Na Bradley,Crane never get punished now aint that strange........................PGA Tour has no balls

[joey2aces]

I also think, and maybe I'm wrong, that the green carrying two holes can cause things to back up a bit. Not making excuses but that played a part, IMHO.

[HoffTTM]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1396247539' post='8984931']
The pga tour is slow, but does it really impact the average weekend warrior? And I get the whole modeling aspect, but how many weekend warriors are really trying to play or act like a pro? The average golfer[size=4] is slow for totally different reasons, like skill and knowledge of the game, not from a long pre-shot routine or testing the wind 5 times.[/size]

[size=4]As far as fixing the issue, it's difficult. The thing is, it's not just hitting shots out on tour. There's external factors like controlling the gallery and similar that slows things down with all the popular groups. There are also slow and painful rulings on almost everything, because players are too afraid of being caught up in a rule implementation mistake. Also, the courses seemed to be getting longer and longer, and it just takes more time overall. Yes, the pre-shot routines have gotten brutal on tour with some guys, but I'm just saying there are other factors. Bottom line, enforce the slow play rules.[/size]
[/quote]

However they also play in groups 3 or 2 and never 4s. On top of that they almost never need to search 5 minutes for a ball. They also only hit 70ish shots a round.

They do just play incredibly slowly with almost no excuse. We had an interclub match in a national competition last week and my match was played in 3h10 (was one of the slower games as well as being windy and rainy).

[NorthTexasGlfr]

[quote name='HoffTTM' timestamp='1396267408' post='8985327']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1396247539' post='8984931']
The pga tour is slow, but does it really impact the average weekend warrior? And I get the whole modeling aspect, but how many weekend warriors are really trying to play or act like a pro? The average golfer[size=4] is slow for totally different reasons, like skill and knowledge of the game, not from a long pre-shot routine or testing the wind 5 times.[/size]

[size=4]As far as fixing the issue, it's difficult. The thing is, it's not just hitting shots out on tour. There's external factors like controlling the gallery and similar that slows things down with all the popular groups. There are also slow and painful rulings on almost everything, because players are too afraid of being caught up in a rule implementation mistake. Also, the courses seemed to be getting longer and longer, and it just takes more time overall. Yes, the pre-shot routines have gotten brutal on tour with some guys, but I'm just saying there are other factors. Bottom line, enforce the slow play rules.[/size]
[/quote]

However they also play in groups 3 or 2 and never 4s. On top of that they almost never need to search 5 minutes for a ball. They also only hit 70ish shots a round.

[b]They do just play incredibly slowly with almost no excuse.[/b] We had an interclub match in a national competition last week and my match was played in 3h10 (was one of the slower games as well as being windy and rainy).
[/quote]

Nail meet head.

[Sean2]

I was watching golf on TV. My pace of watching was just fine. :-)

[Matt97GT]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1396218854' post='8982359']
It is clear that the PGA TOUR is not overly concerned about "slow play." Certainly not as concerned as many golf board posters and writers.

We had a three hour front nine, and zero penalty shots. Five guys were put on the clock.

I read that since 1980 something like 1,200 guys have been put on the clock, but only five or so have actually received penalty strokes for slow play. Are we to believe that nearly 100% of the guys put on the clock actually speed up their play?
[/quote]


last one being what? The rich old white guys penalizing the 14 year old asian kid on the biggest stage of his life?

Yeah, terrible.

[highdraw69]

really does make the whole "While We're Young" program look astonishingly silly

[Sean2]

And, don't forget the network get's to show more commercials, which generates more revenue. :-)

[tembolo1284]

I'm happy I skipped this coverage from the looks of it!

[jones137]

[quote name='Lodestone' timestamp='1396260469' post='8985109']
[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1396252592' post='8985015']
So who played slowly if everyone was in position?
[/quote]

Now that's a fair question. Maybe, just maybe, knowing that hitting a good shot, vs. hitting a bad shot, may have life changing consequences makes them careful. Like, "if I hit a 6 iron here, I might win a million dollars, unless I really need to hit a 5 in which case I'm going to go in that water and finish 18th again. Hmmmm…maybe I should think about this…What's that wind doing again??"
[/quote]

They keep playing that slow and viewership declines they won't have to worry about having millions on the line.............

[gators78]

[quote name='Matt97GT' timestamp='1396272941' post='8985807']
[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1396218854' post='8982359']
It is clear that the PGA TOUR is not overly concerned about "slow play." Certainly not as concerned as many golf board posters and writers.

We had a three hour front nine, and zero penalty shots. Five guys were put on the clock.

I read that since 1980 something like 1,200 guys have been put on the clock, but only five or so have actually received penalty strokes for slow play. Are we to believe that nearly 100% of the guys put on the clock actually speed up their play?
[/quote]


last one being what? The rich old white guys penalizing the 14 year old asian kid on the biggest stage of his life?

Yeah, terrible.
[/quote]

I think that wasn't the PGA Tour officials, that was the Masters officials.

Mark it now those dudes better SPEED up at Augusta because I have a feeling these officials aren't going to let slowpokes ruin their coverage.

[bub72ck]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1396225642' post='8983043']
PGA Tour is a self-serving outfit and your pleas will fall on deaf ears. There are so many things wrong with how that outfit is run, but as long as the cash rolls in they will keep the racket going.
[/quote]

This

Doesn't anyone remember when Happy Gilmore punched Bob Barker and didn't get kicked off the tour because "the ratings were the highest they've ever been"? It's the same situation here except we've replaced Happy Gilmore with real golfers and instead punching people in the face it's just slow play.

[PooN]

I guess I'm on the other side of the fence. Yeah, slow play, 10 practice swings/stepaways, and 6 hour tournaments can be brutal to watch, but these guys play for so much money... the difference by [b]one stroke[/b] for this and many tournaments is [b]$570,400[/b]. The difference by two strokes for this and many is [b]$843,200[/b]. Each additional stroke has got to weigh on the minds of these guys more than you or I can even imagine - especially guys that haven't been in final group positions before.

Also, for almost the entire round, even the slow group that got put on the clock was still directly behind the group ahead. So if they have to wait in the fairway for 5 minutes for the green to clear, then take an extra minute and a half to address and hit their ball, once they get to the next teebox they still have to wait... what is the issue?

Plus, these guys are friggin good. When they take practice swings they have a purpose far superior to yours and mine. They visualize the shot in a different way than us mere mortals. Not only that, but they have the skill to make that visualization a reality.[indent]
“I never hit a shot, not even in practice, without having a very sharp, in-focus picture of it in my head. First I see the ball where I want it to finish, nice and white and sitting up high on the bright green grass. Then the scene quickly changes, and I see the ball going there; its path, trajectory, and shape, even its behavior on landing. Then there is a sort of fade-out, and the next scene shows me making the kind of swing that will turn the previous images into reality.”
Source: Jack Nicklaus[/indent]

So let's put all this into perspective... you ever had a $570,400 putt or felt the pain of hitting it in the water on 18 knowing you just lost the [opportunity cost of a] house?
Probably not. Let's not pretend we play anything close to the same game. 6 hours to make sure every shot is as good as it can be for 79 players over 18 holes is not so outragous.

[Lodestone]

[quote name='PooN' timestamp='1396276491' post='8986249']
I guess I'm on the other side of the fence. Yeah, slow play, 10 practice swings/stepaways, and 6 hour tournaments can be brutal to watch, but these guys play for so much money... the difference by [b]one stroke[/b] for this and many tournaments is [b]$570,400[/b]. The difference by two strokes for this and many is [b]$843,200[/b]. Each additional stroke has got to weigh on the minds of these guys more than you or I can even imagine - especially guys that haven't been in final group positions before.

Also, for almost the entire round, even the slow group that got put on the clock was still directly behind the group ahead. So if they have to wait in the fairway for 5 minutes for the green to clear, then take an extra minute and a half to address and hit their ball, once they get to the next teebox they still have to wait... what is the issue?

Plus, these guys are friggin good. When they take practice swings they have a purpose far superior to yours and mine. They visualize the shot in a different way than us mere mortals. Not only that, but they have the skill to make that visualization a reality.
[indent=1]
“I never hit a shot, not even in practice, without having a very sharp, in-focus picture of it in my head. First I see the ball where I want it to finish, nice and white and sitting up high on the bright green grass. Then the scene quickly changes, and I see the ball going there; its path, trajectory, and shape, even its behavior on landing. Then there is a sort of fade-out, and the next scene shows me making the kind of swing that will turn the previous images into reality.”
Source: Jack Nicklaus[/indent]

So let's put all this into perspective... you ever had a $570,400 putt or felt the pain of hitting it in the water on 18 knowing you just lost the [opportunity cost of a] house?
Probably not. Let's not pretend we play anything close to the same game. 6 hours to make sure every shot is as good as it can be for 79 players over 18 holes is not so outragous.
[/quote]
This is, after all, their work day. I've been known to spend 8 hours at work, in a single day.
Maybe it's silly to try to put it into the perspective of the recreational golfer who wants to get home, drink a beer, take a nap, maybe mow his lawn…….

[jons1]

Again, PGA Tour event is NOT your local club championship. It takes almost a minute just to get the crowds to stop moving for a shot to be played for each player. It's just a different animal, so comparing time to your time is ridiculous.

The primary issue is they haven't figured out how to enforce the slow play rules consistently. If they could enforce them consistently, the problem would be resolved. As it is, they just need to enforce the rules for golfers that get out of position. With that said, if only 1 ruling is required, you just added 10-15 minutes to the round. The PGA Tour needs a rules official with EVERY group, that enforces the rules, and enforces slow play. Period. Otherwise it will never change.

[marmooskapaul]

It was beautiful out yesterday!! You guys actually staid inside to watch the Valero??? tournament?? Get out and play!!
All done
Paul

[ironcat]

The fans have to start doing something if the PGA Tour won't. WE should boo players who take excessive amounts of time. Why not? They are killing the game for everyone in more ways than one.

[ironcat]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1396278497' post='8986495']
Again, PGA Tour event is NOT your local club championship. It takes almost a minute just to get the crowds to stop moving for a shot to be played for each player. It's just a different animal, so comparing time to your time is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Not in Europe it doesn't. Even in Majors, it's like 10 seconds maximum. Spectators are respectful in the main over here.

[PooN]

[quote name='marmooskapaul' timestamp='1396279003' post='8986555']
It was beautiful out yesterday!! You guys actually staid inside to watch the Valereo??? tournament?? Get out and play!!
All done
Paul
[/quote]

You're absolutely right. 1st round of the season. Walking 18 with some soft muddy ground and slow as molasses greens was a much needed change from the drab of winter. We're getting back to cold weather for like a week though.

DVR is a beautiful thing.

[Prof3ssor]

I'm amazed that most players will not blame it on slow play. Really Zach?? The size of the field is the main issue? Watch the video to hear what Zach has to stay.

[url="http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/3/30/video-zach-johnson-others-on-valeros-tepid-pace-of-play.html"]http://www.geoffshac...ce-of-play.html[/url]

[size=4]"Johnson, says the issues are course setup, spacing of tee times, ripple effects, more daylight (!?) and the issue of putting the rules officials in a predicament in who to enforce the rules on and when. But the main solution he suggests entails reducing the size of fields. An oldie and not a very goodie, especially when Sunday proved that even a reduced field just can't get around a tough course quickly." [/size]

[NorthTexasGlfr]

[quote name='PooN' timestamp='1396276491' post='8986249']
I guess I'm on the other side of the fence. Yeah, slow play, 10 practice swings/stepaways, and 6 hour tournaments can be brutal to watch, but these guys play for so much money... the difference by [b]one stroke[/b] for this and many tournaments is [b]$570,400[/b]. The difference by two strokes for this and many is [b]$843,200[/b]. Each additional stroke has got to weigh on the minds of these guys more than you or I can even imagine - especially guys that haven't been in final group positions before.

Also, for almost the entire round, even the slow group that got put on the clock was still directly behind the group ahead. So if they have to wait in the fairway for 5 minutes for the green to clear, then take an extra minute and a half to address and hit their ball, once they get to the next teebox they still have to wait... what is the issue?

Plus, these guys are friggin good. When they take practice swings they have a purpose far superior to yours and mine. They visualize the shot in a different way than us mere mortals. Not only that, but they have the skill to make that visualization a reality.
[indent=1]
“I never hit a shot, not even in practice, without having a very sharp, in-focus picture of it in my head. First I see the ball where I want it to finish, nice and white and sitting up high on the bright green grass. Then the scene quickly changes, and I see the ball going there; its path, trajectory, and shape, even its behavior on landing. Then there is a sort of fade-out, and the next scene shows me making the kind of swing that will turn the previous images into reality.”
Source: Jack Nicklaus[/indent]

So let's put all this into perspective... you ever had a $570,400 putt or felt the pain of hitting it in the water on 18 knowing you just lost the [opportunity cost of a] house?
Probably not. Let's not pretend we play anything close to the same game. 6 hours to make sure every shot is as good as it can be for 79 players over 18 holes is not so outragous.
[/quote]

So the pace of play should have a direct correlation to the amount of money that is at stake. Following this logic that means that if prize money continues to increase that 7 hours will not be outrageous at some point and eventually 8 hours. The biggest problem with saying that 6 hours is not so outrageous is that if 6 hours is the "norm" you will never finish the first two rounds of a tournament if it is taking 6 hours.

[jons1]

[quote name='pinkie' timestamp='1396279088' post='8986573']
The fans have to start doing something if the PGA Tour won't. WE should boo players who take excessive amounts of time. Why not? They are killing the game for everyone in more ways than one.
[/quote]

I've read this several times. Not to single you out with this opinion, but why is it killing the game for everyone? Why would anything in pro golf tournaments prevent me from enjoying the game at the club level? To me, it's like saying what happens in the NBA is killing me from playing pick up basketball games at the local park. I just really don't see the connection.

[bucky316]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1396234063' post='8984079']
[quote name='Greenie' timestamp='1396231355' post='8983743']
"these guys are good" If these guys really are why not add a shot clock to the game? Would make the game more interesting. You have so many minutes per hole. More for a par 5 and less for a par3. Time outs for rulings and bathroom breaks.
[/quote]

Sounds like a terrible idea.
[/quote]
technology is invading the team sports and even tennis so why not the PGA tour? ....off the top of my head why not use Shot Tracker to police pace of play?

[PooN]

[quote name='North Texas' timestamp='1396281079' post='8986855']
So the pace of play should have a direct correlation to the amount of money that is at stake. Following this logic that means that if prize money continues to increase that 7 hours will not be outrageous at some point and eventually 8 hours. The biggest problem with saying that 6 hours is not so outrageous is that if 6 hours is the "norm" you will never finish the first two rounds of a tournament if it is taking 6 hours.
[/quote]

I disagree. It would be a fallacy to argue that there is a "direct correlation" in regards to the amount of time vs the amount of money. That is to say, it would not mean a $10 prize pool should take 1 hour, a $100 prize pool should take 2 hours, a $1000 prize pool should take 3 hours, etc. It is simply a matter of an amount of money so huge that extra time is taken. I'm sure statistical analysis could come up with a number to quantify just how much time is taken on average at certain dollar amounts, but I would assume it would be based in seconds (if any difference at all), not minutes when going from say, 1st place being 1 million dollars or 1.6 million dollars.

Even still, 6 hour rounds are not the norm.

Note: even though I am arguing that players are taking their time because of the amount of money at stake, I still agree with the consensus that the PGA does need to create a better atmosphere to ensure that 6 hour rounds are not commonplace. I believe there could be changes that may help: (ie. rules officials on every hole, an allotted time frame for each player's shot (or some such), etc.)