Tiger will NOT beat Jack's Record

[Dpavs]

This one has been a duh.. no brainer to me for a while. Why?
For one... the talent on the rise for some time now is incredible, the fields are deeper and more talented than ever before.

Couple the above with....

Two (and equally as important) golf is game you need to have your head on straight for.
Jack didn't have all the head issues Tiger has by far. Unless Tiger can change that I just don't think he stands a chance.

[birly-shirly]

I don't know whether I'd count myself a Tiger fan, or not. However, I do think that golf would be more interesting in the next few years if he recovers his form and makes a run at Jack's record.

I don't know what to make of the swing changes. Are they evidence of his high standards and ambitions? Butch said that he'd never seen anyone work harder at the game than Greg Norman, until he worked with Tiger. Or are they a symptom of his inability to stay the course with a particular coaching team? In tennis, Andy Murray seems to have benefitted from changing coaches more often than Tiger has, but it's hard to argue that Jack didn't do pretty well sticking with the first club pro he stumbled across.

I do think that I enjoyed watching Tiger swing the club more when he was with Butch than since. And in those years, there was a decent argument to be made that he was the best driver of the ball,the best and most versatile iron player, the best short game and the best clutch putter. I don't know that the same was ever said of Jack. Jack's longevity and the consistency of his long game through the years seems a cut above Tiger though.

I'd like to see Tiger recover and challenge. To do so, I think he'll need to recover a consistency with his driver that he's not had in years. His advantage in terms of raw length is gone and I don't think it's coming back. I think it would be fascinating to see a rejuvenated Tiger, hitting fairways and green, up against the young bombers and trying to tie and pass Jack. After all, when do you think we'll next see someone sitting on 14 majors with more to play for?

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1396373335' post='8995511']
With a microdiscectomy surgery, NFW that Tiger beats Jack's record of firsts, seconds , and third place finishes. According to Tim Rosaforte on the Golf Channel, a prominent surgeon said that Tiger was done a disservice by his physician

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]A world renowned Neurosurgeon here in town who declined an invitation to go on the GC and comment said the same thing.

I agree with Charlie, and though this is a selfish reason, obviously with my ties to Pete, I want to see Sam's record stand however I agree with Shirly that it's good for the game if Tiger can have a rebirth and make one last run.

Time will tell all...

Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1406237007' post='9778301']
Not to contradict what Haney says in his book, but I find it highly suspect that the US Navy would authorize a civilian to participate in any training exercise, let alone in the SW community. I think the glory should be left for those that earned it. The same blood, the same mud. Nuff said. My .02.
ETCS/SS USNR
[/quote]I will contradict it, because I lost a lot of respect for him that he could even entertain that Tiger could just wake up and decide that he wanted to be a SEAL.

And he was worried that Tiger would pursue this fantasy?

Paleeeeeze, LMAO

FWIW, They didn't..

Most of that was bulls*** for the press & some free PR for the Program.

They sat back and LtheirA'sOff.

Forget getting accepted into the Program-

Forget Hell Week-

Forget the approximately 8-9 months post hell week training, where another 18-20% wash out-

I happened to be there listening to my Father and a few of his former Teammates.

Running in combat boots/work boots or playing on an obstacle course do not a Warrior make

Thank You OldSchool for your Sacrifice and Service!!

Fairways & Greens My Friend,
Richard

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='tstephen' timestamp='1422677124' post='10854153']
[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1422666655' post='10853033']
EIGHTY TWO!!!!
I am not positive, but I doubt that Jack ever posted a number that poor. He had too much pride. In my opinion , he has the yips, twitches, or whatever you call a head case. Curtis Strange said that he knew "it" was gone and he would never get "it" back. How could a guy who was classed with some of the all time great short games flat chunk so many shots. I heard him interviewed. His excuse was he changed the wedge grind and the sole was not reacting the way he thought it would out of the lies he had. That makes no sense when he played 20 yard fairway shots like a hacker..

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

I am a big Jack fan. Pretty ironic that Tiger fans have always pointed to Jack's short game issues.

Jack was human though and shot 83 in the '81 British Open 1st round after Steve's DUI arrest, but made the cut with a 66 in the 2nd round. What a record at The British Open in his prime!

Also, I recall him in the lead at Pebble in final round of the clambake butchering the last 6 holes over bogey and finishing out of the top 10. I had just read Golf Digest were he had New Year Resolutions to follow and not giving up was on top of the list. If Jack ever gave up it was when he shelled his driver off the ground into The Pacific on 18 that day when he had no chance of reaching the green.

I have witnessed Jack's power through the years. His driver exhibition at The '83 PGA would have been very competitive in The National Long Drive Championship that followed immediately after Jack concluding The Past Champions' Clinic. Jack's 1 irons off the tee on some holes in The '72 US Open were also very impressive.

Maybe Tiger can look up Phil Rodgers?
[/quote]

Hey! I carried for him once! He didn't have "it" anymore in '75 @ Medinah.

[Kirasdad]

From 96/97 through the Butch years, Tiger had the best all around game in the game, and maybe ever, although personally I think it's difficult to compare Woods with RTJ or Hagen, the eras are so different, Jack maybe, but his game was very different than Tigers, less spectacular but very consistent over time. Certainly Tiger during that time was a complete package. His driving, iron play, short game, putting, Herculean trouble shots that no one would even try much less pull off were in a class that golf had never seen. Mentally he was a cut above as well, when faced with Tiger on Sunday opponents tended to curl up in a fetal position and whimper rather than give him a run, exceptions being Hal Sutton who won (the Players, I think it was) and Bob May, who lost at the PGA. Then came some injuries and the switch to Haney. Tiger was still winning but the his overall game wasn't as complete, but his short game was still magnificent and he was an incredible clutch putter. Ask Rocco, he arguably was better than Tiger tee to green, but Tiger beat him with a putter and a sand wedge. Then injuries start piling up, switch to Foley and the slow decline accelerates. He still is winning, five times in one season (even after Elin tried to emasculate him with a five iron) but he's winning on pretty much raw talent, his mental game (perhaps due to off course distractions, who knows) is going south and he can't pull it all together for the big ones like he used to. Then more injury, the back now, and he can't play at all, his head is in the dumper, the one thing he had left, his short game, is now a disaster. Has he hit bottom? Perhaps? Is there a way up and out of it. Who knows. He has almost no chance of catching Jack, maybe Snead, but I am not sure Tiger even cares about that. Who knows, perhaps one of these days, we will be on the edge of our seats, glued to the TV when a 49 year old Tiger Woods, completely humbled by this time, to the point where everyone is actually rooting for him, will sink a twenty five foot curler to win his first tournament in twelve years at the John Deere or some such lesser event.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1422743369' post='10858341']
From 96/97 through the Butch years, Tiger had the best all around game in the game, and maybe ever, although personally I think it's difficult to compare Woods with RTJ or Hagen, the eras are so different, Jack maybe, but his game was very different than Tigers, less spectacular but very consistent over time. Certainly Tiger during that time was a complete package. His driving, iron play, short game, putting, Herculean trouble shots that no one would even try much less pull off were in a class that golf had never seen. Mentally he was a cut above as well, when faced with Tiger on Sunday opponents tended to curl up in a fetal position and whimper rather than give him a run, exceptions being Hal Sutton who won (the Players, I think it was) and Bob May, who lost at the PGA.
[/quote]David Duval and Vijay Sing also were not awed by the man called Tiger-

Double D, Hal and Vijay were the only Players who publicly scoffed at Ernie's comment about "When Tiger shows up, we're all playing for second.

Though DD didn't win the PGA POY in '98, I believe Mark O'Mara did, he did interrupt Tiger's run of money titles as he was the leading money winner, Vardon Trophy winner and also the recipient of the Byron Nelson Award.

Vijay would take The PGA POY honors in '04, also interrupting Tiger's string.

Nice post Kiras!

Have a nice season My Friend,
Richard

[birly-shirly]

How big a deal do people think the "intimidation factor" really was? I can't help feeling it's been overdone somewhat.

Intimidation I can understand if you're getting in the ring with Mike Tyson or facing the All Blacks. Even in non-contact sports like, say, tennis - an in-form opponent can make life directly more difficult for you. But golf?

My interpretation of what was happening in Woods' glory years was much more that he was a great front-runner, who could throttle back and play mistake free championship golf. Now, I appreciate that it can play on your mind if you have an expectation that your opponent is not going to crack - so this is a fine line we're talking. All the same, I feel that, especially in the majors, people in contention are typically making mistakes and it's the person who copes or recovers the best who wins. What seemed to change with Woods in his prime was that, with a whiff of the lead, he didn't make mistakes. Everyone else did, and he disappeared into the distance.

Obviously being paired anywhere near Woods brought a hoopla of noise and distraction that could have been difficult to deal with, however I didn't really get the impression that people were making MORE mistakes than you would usually see in a major just because Tiger was there. When he ran clean away with the US and British Opens in 2000, wasn't the scoring by the rest of the field more or less typical?

My impression was that he wasn't necessarily intimidating the rest of the field, so much as that he was just that much better than the field (and on an awesome putting streak). Or, put another way, I can understand that the rest of the field was justifiably intimidated by how good he was - but I'm not convinced that this recognition made winning any easier for him.

Just putting some thoughts out there - and curious to hear what others think.

[Shade Ruff]

After his U.S. Open win at Torrey Pines in '08, the Golf Channel's talking heads incessantly chattered about the year, if not exact tournament, when Tiger would break Jack's record.

Nothing but radio silence now.

Shade

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422752367' post='10859119']

My interpretation of what was happening in Woods' glory years was much more that he was a great front-runner, who could throttle back and play mistake free championship golf. Now, I appreciate that it can play on your mind if you have an expectation that your opponent is not going to crack - so this is a fine line we're talking. All the same, I feel that, especially in the majors, people in contention are typically making mistakes and it's the person who copes or recovers the best who wins. What seemed to change with Woods in his prime was that, with a whiff of the lead, he didn't make mistakes. Everyone else did, and he disappeared into the distance.

Obviously being paired anywhere near Woods brought a hoopla of noise and distraction that could have been difficult to deal with, however I didn't really get the impression that people were making MORE mistakes than you would usually see in a major just because Tiger was there. When he ran clean away with the US and British Opens in 2000, wasn't the scoring by the rest of the field more or less typical?

My impression was that he wasn't necessarily intimidating the rest of the field, so much as that he was just that much better than the field (and on an awesome putting streak). Or, put another way, I can understand that the rest of the field was justifiably intimidated by how good he was - but I'm not convinced that this recognition made winning any easier for him.

Just putting some thoughts out there - and curious to hear what others think.
[/quote]

Well said. Yes, Tiger was a front runner par excellence and I think the intimidation factor kicked in when he had the lead, especially in a major, and the rest of the field KNEW he wasn't coming back to them, and in fact Woods frequently put his foot on the gas, and as a result, no one seemed capable of making any sort of charge.

[pdgolferman]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1422743369' post='10858341']
....Certainly Tiger during that time was a complete package.....
[/quote]

Was he? Maybe he (and Jack) just happened to be a tad better at managing bogeys compared with the rest of the field.

[quote]
....He still is winning, five times in one season (even after Elin tried to emasculate him with a five iron) but he's winning....

[/quote]
On a lighter note, can you imagine if she'd have done this with a brand spanking new 25 degree (not a 5i) Hogan iron with a custom 39 inch shaft?

[BIG STU]

I would not dare say this on the other side of the board because I would get flamed and completely burned up! I was watching MD yesterday at my club waiting on the frost to go away. They had Brendall's comments from the day before. Now Brendall like him or hate him is one of the best analyziers in the game today IMHO. He was talking about Tiger smothering the ball on his chipping and iron game. They showed pics and he was absolutely correct. In fact it made me realize I had been doing the same thing myself. In all seriousness Tiger should put his petty differences aside and hire Brendall. I am as serious as a heart attack on this!! He also stood up for Tiger in saying that he is having problems and when you get into the public eye like he is you may not practice shots that you are screwing up because of embarrassment.He further stated that there were more people watching Tiger in the short game practice area than there was watching other players teeing off on #1. Tiger may have done some disagreeable things to some in life but inside he is after all a human being like all of us. I am saying all this and I never have been a big Tiger fan but don't have anything against him either.
On the Feherty show the other night Rocco said Tiger should get him a coach that can actually play the game and has "done something" in the game. He actually suggested Trevino and that is a great idea.

I also feel for Tiger the pressure is on with every so called guru and the press analyzing his every flaw and adding their fixes and ideas. Personally it would drive me nuts and like I said before inside he is a human like all of us. I am not going to jump on the wagon and say he is done yet he may win a major or two but at this stage I do not think he will break Jack's major record. It is coming down to father time and injuries catching up with him. He does need to find the right coach or guru for him though

[BIG STU]

[quote name='pdgolferman' timestamp='1422783724' post='10860931']
[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1422743369' post='10858341']
....Certainly Tiger during that time was a complete package.....
[/quote]

Was he? Maybe he (and Jack) just happened to be a tad better at managing bogeys compared with the rest of the field.

[quote]
....He still is winning, five times in one season (even after Elin tried to emasculate him with a five iron) but he's winning....

[/quote]
On a lighter note, can you imagine if she'd have done this with a brand spanking new 25 degree (not a 5i) Hogan iron with a custom 39 inch shaft?
[/quote]LOL can see her yelling as she makes contact "be the right club today"

[oldschoolrocker]

Stu,
That "be the right club..." comment is priceless. Well played my friend.

[dbuck47]

Who said:

"The thing about Jack was, he knew he was going to beat you. And you knew that he knew he was going to beat you. And he knew that you knew that he knew he was going to beat you"

I think it was Weiskopf, but can't remember for sure.

That my friends, is intimidation.

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='dbuck47' timestamp='1422893741' post='10868429']
Who said:

"The thing about Jack was, he knew he was going to beat you. And you knew that he knew he was going to beat you. And he knew that you knew that he knew he was going to beat you"

I think it was Weiskopf, but can't remember for sure.

That my friends, is intimidation.
[/quote]

You are correct. It was Weiskopf.

[stevemcgee99]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422725608' post='10856755']
I'd like to see Tiger recover and challenge. To do so, I think he'll need to recover a consistency with his driver that he's not had in years. His advantage in terms of raw length is gone and I don't think it's coming back. I think it would be fascinating to see a [b]rejuvenated Tiger, hitting fairways and green, up against the young bombers[/b] and trying to tie and pass Jack.[/quote]I think it would be especially cool if he did it with his original clubs.

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='stevemcgee99' timestamp='1422904826' post='10869605']
[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422725608' post='10856755']
I'd like to see Tiger recover and challenge. To do so, I think he'll need to recover a consistency with his driver that he's not had in years. His advantage in terms of raw length is gone and I don't think it's coming back. I think it would be fascinating to see a [b]rejuvenated Tiger, hitting fairways and green, up against the young bombers[/b] and trying to tie and pass Jack.[/quote]I think it would be especially cool if he did it with his original clubs.
[/quote]

Yeah, probably not a major, but any tournament will do, limping down 18 with a Cobra 43.5" steel shafted driver, a battered old set of MP 14s and a Ping Anser for the clinching putt. Hell, I'd root for him then, and I am not a big fan of El Tigre.

[jonnygrouville]

I like my swing theory and it always annoyed me how they would bang on about Woods' swing being "perfect" and other sycophantic bullsp!t, including a kind of Emperor's new clothes type blindness to his wild drives. He starts playing badly and all of a sudden his method is flawed. Arguably, his non-Haney swing when he hasn't been winning is, in some ways (and this could be debated until Hell freezes over and becomes a tourist destination for the Euro-trash jet-set), technically superior.

Also arguably, there is no such thing as a perfect swing. What Woods could do is make his swing work well when it needed to. I know that sounds facile and not sure what to call this. Is this the mental game? Probably. There are people on driving-ranges all over the world finding picture-perfect text-book positions but not making a living from the game. There are longer hitters, there are better ball-strikers, there are people with better short games (a few) and better putters (although not many when he was in his prime). Woods could get this all together under extreme pressure. If this is the mental game, this is where he was streets ahead of everyone else.

Not sure about the intimidation factor. It isn't as if Nicklaus didn't have the same thing, it isn't as if the rest of the field were doing this as a hobby.

So what has happened now? We might just be seeing exactly how fragile good golf really is. We all know this. Miss a couple more fairways, a couple more approach shots that might finish ten feet further away and the chance of holing those putts drops off quick. All adds up, two shots a round is eight shots a tournament and soon you're back in the pack. And it isn't as if he has disappeared disappeared. Not in the same way we have seen so many over the years, including multiple major winners la Harrington.

Do I hope he wins any more? Not really. I much prefer watching Bubba, Rory, Jordan, Ricky et al and want to see these guys win.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='jonnygrouville' timestamp='1422911415' post='10870325']
I like my swing theory and it always annoyed me how they would bang on about Woods' swing being "perfect" and other sycophantic bullsp!t, including a kind of Emperor's new clothes type blindness to his wild drives. He starts playing badly and all of a sudden his method is flawed. Arguably, his non-Haney swing when he hasn't been winning is, in some ways (and this could be debated until Hell freezes over and becomes a tourist destination for the Euro-trash jet-set), technically superior.

Also arguably, there is no such thing as a perfect swing. What Woods could do is make his swing work well when it needed to. I know that sounds facile and not sure what to call this. Is this the mental game? Probably. There are people on driving-ranges all over the world finding picture-perfect text-book positions but not making a living from the game. There are longer hitters, there are better ball-strikers, there are people with better short games (a few) and better putters (although not many when he was in his prime). Woods could get this all together under extreme pressure. If this is the mental game, this is where he was streets ahead of everyone else.

Not sure about the intimidation factor. It isn't as if Nicklaus didn't have the same thing, it isn't as if the rest of the field were doing this as a hobby.

So what has happened now? We might just be seeing exactly how fragile good golf really is. We all know this. Miss a couple more fairways, a couple more approach shots that might finish ten feet further away and the chance of holing those putts drops off quick. All adds up, two shots a round is eight shots a tournament and soon you're back in the pack. And it isn't as if he has disappeared disappeared. Not in the same way we have seen so many over the years, including multiple major winners la Harrington.

Do I hope he wins any more? Not really. I much prefer watching Bubba, Rory, Jordan, Ricky et al and want to see these guys win.
[/quote]I agree with your "golf philosophy" 110%. There is no "correct etched in stone" proper way to hit a golf ball. Actually I have heard Tiger himself say it. I know guys on the range that have beautiful swings and ohhh and ahhhh the range rats. Get them on the course and they cant break 90. Look at the PGA tour one of the ugliest swings is Tommy Gainey but he has qualified for the tour to begin with and has won 1 time but he keeps his card and makes a living doing it. Look at Furyk he makes most golf gurus cringe but how much money and how many tournaments has he won? People like those 2 have what we call game they get it done however. There is a lot of difference between the range , golf and then there is tournament golf. I have a lot of swing flaws myself and some are by design I have my own swing right or wrong. I do it my own way right or wrong. I got on that mechanical bandwagon back in 05 when I was going back to the minis and got where I could not play a lick. After 2 years I went back to doing it my way along with a few things my old man taught me and got back somewhat competitive but father time has caught up with me some now

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='jonnygrouville' timestamp='1422911415' post='10870325']

So what has happened now? We might just be seeing exactly how fragile good golf really is. We all know this. Miss a couple more fairways, a couple more approach shots that might finish ten feet further away and the chance of holing those putts drops off quick. All adds up, two shots a round is eight shots a tournament and soon you're back in the pack. And it isn't as if he has disappeared disappeared. Not in the same way we have seen so many over the years, including multiple major winners la Harrington.

[/quote]

I like this. For years, between the end of Jack's really prolific period in the '70s and the early noughties, the best golfers in the world compiled records somewhere between Sandy Lyle and Tom Watson. Multiple majors, but no-one threatening double figures. Faldo, Norman and Seve were perennial favourites the week before each championship, and hardly ever came through. Compared to other sports, golf is just stupidly difficult to dominate. Like him or not, for a few years Tiger encouraged us to forget that basic fact and golf was a wee bit more predictable. A double-edged sword, in my book.

Longevity is tough too. I remember Faldo being interviewed just after winning his first Open. He said then that he reckoned on having maybe 10 years on top of his game, after which relative decline looked historically inevitable. It's just too hard to maintain the intensity for longer. @rsehole that he is (if we can take Sam Torrance at his word) - he was pretty accurate in terms of his own career, and he's looking pretty prophetic in terms of Tiger's. Stranger things have happened than that Woods might regain some form - but it's not too hard to believe that with kids, injuries and money in the bank, he no longer wants to work as hard at his game as he once did.

[bullrambler]

The first thing I feel compelled to do is point out that all the records that Jack N has must be compiled in a list. Then all of Tiger's records must be compiled in a list. Then all the ones that match up have to be stroked off the list. Then show which records differentiate these two guys. Then it's time to propose what may be achieved and what may not be achieved. If someone has most of these stats - please start a new thread and we can make comments based on the stats.

[W C Franco]

If you threw records for hookers,cigars,alcohol and poker into the mix Tiger might have a shout.

[HoganApexBlades]

I personally feel that Tiger in his heyday was great. I think that Jack in his heyday was unbeatable. Jack's personal life never seemed to interfere with his playing ability. Tiger's personal life destroyed his playing edge. I don't think Tiger's competition matched up against him the same as Jack's did. Jack played against Palmer, Player, Watson, Miller, Weiskopf, Trevino, etc., all golfers who were major champions and they all played in the minimally technological era of the late 50s, 60s, 70s and into the 80s. I feel once metal woods and GI irons hit the scene, all hell broke loose on the tour. Jack intimidated his opponents with consistency and structure of mind and brute force. I think Tiger let his mind wander (along with other things) and truly lost his edge that his dad taught him. The money took over what he initially believed was most important, WINNING MAJOR TOURNAMENTS!

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422916752' post='10870937']
[quote name='jonnygrouville' timestamp='1422911415' post='10870325']


[/quote]



Longevity is tough too. I remember Faldo being interviewed just after winning his first Open. He said then that he reckoned on having maybe 10 years on top of his game, after which relative decline looked historically inevitable. It's just too hard to maintain the intensity for longer. @rsehole that he is (if we can take Sam Torrance at his word) - he was pretty accurate in terms of his own career, and he's looking pretty prophetic in terms of Tiger's. Stranger things have happened than that Woods might regain some form - but it's not too hard to believe that with kids, injuries and money in the bank, he no longer wants to work as hard at his game as he once did.
[/quote]

Birly, you're on fire these days, this is another spot on post. When you really step back, and look at historiography Jack is sort of an anomaly in the consistency of his top echelon play over pretty near 25 years, from 'the 62 Open to the '86 Masters. Then all those seconds, Jesus wept, that's nearly 40 majors in the top 2 spots. That is mind blowing. Gary Player was a bit of an outlier as well with his majors spread over 19 years, and of course, he takes immaculate care of himself so that certainly helped. Hogan was great for a decade, maybe even a little less, Palmer too. Bobby Jones retired at 28 and couldn't play a lick after that, The company line being he, eschewing the professional game, had no more amateur mountains to climb. True, but he was also completely burnt out. All that pressure to be "Bobby Jones" and the slam really took the starch out of him. Bryon Nelson, ten years or so, then to his ranch he went. As Jones was famous for saying,"there's golf, and then there is tournament golf". Tiger is edging up on twenty years, and he was, at least two years ago, he was still very competitive, but hasn't won a major since '08. So '97 Masters to '08 Open, hmm...11 years. And yes, there have been injuries, but he seems as healthy now as he has been in awhile, but mentally he seems fried. He has been talking about catching Jack since "hello world". That's a long run of self imposed pressure, much less the pressure applied by everyone else all the time. Could be his emotional coping skills to handle the ever increasing pressure of simply being Tiger Woods has blown a permanent gasket.

[W C Franco]

That's a rather simplistic view of Jones' and Hogan's careers,I agree with the premise that RTJ was burned out by competition play but Hogan was nearly killed in a car crash and in all likelihood would have won all four majors in 1953 but for some careful manipulation of dates by the US golf authorities.
Jones was unhealthy as was Byron Nelson and they all lived in an era when they travelled from tournament to tournament by car,not the luxury of sitting back in a private jet so it's hardly surprising that their respective careers were somewhat shorter than JN's.
Let me add that I am also a huge fan of JN not only for his skill on the course but as one of the greatest ambassadors that golf has ever had,if his record is to be broken let it be by someone worthy of assuming the mantle.
As for Tiger,like others my distaste has been replaced by a sort of sympathy,the victim of a pushy and allegedly violent parent he's been under pressure all his life and subject to other people's expectations,how long can a man cope with that?

[jonnygrouville]

[quote name='W C Franco' timestamp='1422960515' post='10874375']
As for Tiger,like others my distaste has been replaced by a sort of sympathy,the victim of a pushy and allegedly violent parent he's been under pressure all his life and subject to other people's expectations,how long can a man cope with that?
[/quote]

For every successful child of a pushy parent there are tens, hundreds or maybe even thousands of people who now hate golf (and probably their parents) as a result. Shame.

I have heard various stories about Woods and his upbringing and never known what to believe. If half of it is true, it is a stone-cold miracle that he is only addicted to sex (a concept which has always confused me somewhat, but that is a different story) and not sitting in a supermarket car-park injecting smack into his testicles or something equally horrible. That he has done what he has is probably another testament to his mental strength, and he should, as compassionate human beings, be grateful for that.

However, it is difficult to feel sorry for someone that rich. Calling his private yacht "Privacy" and things like that seems naive. Sign on the dotted line with Nike for that amount of money and we, the hard-working golf-ball buying consumers, own you. Difficult to remember that he is a man and not a commodity.

[dbuck47]

[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1422924983' post='10871903']
I personally feel that Tiger in his heyday was great. I think that Jack in his heyday was unbeatable. Jack's personal life never seemed to interfere with his playing ability. Tiger's personal life destroyed his playing edge. I don't think Tiger's competition matched up against him the same as Jack's did. Jack played against Palmer, Player, Watson, Miller, Weiskopf, Trevino, etc., all golfers who were major champions and they all played in the minimally technological era of the late 50s, 60s, 70s and into the 80s. I feel once metal woods and GI irons hit the scene, all hell broke loose on the tour. Jack intimidated his opponents with consistency and structure of mind and brute force. I think Tiger let his mind wander (along with other things) and truly lost his edge that his dad taught him. The money took over what he initially believed was most important, WINNING MAJOR TOURNAMENTS!
[/quote]

I agree with this.

Outside this forum, everyone is constantly saying "how deep the field is" "how much more competition" and so on. Jack played and stood against basically 3 generations or at least half generations. The Palmer, Player, Trevino, Casper, Weiskopf era, then the Miller, Watson, Irwin, era then the Norman,Seve, Kite era, and even somewhat overlapped into the next age group-not winning but being a factor at least in the Masters. Just look at the '86 Masters as an example.

[xgolfx]

"When you looked at Nicklaus and he looked at you,he knew that you knew that he knew he was going to beat the sh-t out of you"

That is a quote from Tom Weiskopf on page 120 of "THE MAGNIFICENT MASTERS" by Gil Caps

CHARLEY PENNA

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='dbuck47' timestamp='1422994609' post='10877839']
[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1422924983' post='10871903']
I personally feel that Tiger in his heyday was great. I think that Jack in his heyday was unbeatable. Jack's personal life never seemed to interfere with his playing ability. Tiger's personal life destroyed his playing edge. I don't think Tiger's competition matched up against him the same as Jack's did. Jack played against Palmer, Player, Watson, Miller, Weiskopf, Trevino, etc., all golfers who were major champions and they all played in the minimally technological era of the late 50s, 60s, 70s and into the 80s. I feel once metal woods and GI irons hit the scene, all hell broke loose on the tour. Jack intimidated his opponents with consistency and structure of mind and brute force. I think Tiger let his mind wander (along with other things) and truly lost his edge that his dad taught him. The money took over what he initially believed was most important, WINNING MAJOR TOURNAMENTS!
[/quote]

I agree with this.

Outside this forum, everyone is constantly saying "how deep the field is" "how much more competition" and so on. Jack played and stood against basically 3 generations or at least half generations. The Palmer, Player, Trevino, Casper, Weiskopf era, then the Miller, Watson, Irwin, era then the Norman,Seve, Kite era, and even somewhat overlapped into the next age group-not winning but being a factor at least in the Masters. Just look at the '86 Masters as an example.
[/quote]

I watched an hour long show on Nicklaus the other night called Nicklaus: The making of a Champion. He was truly ahead of his time when he turned pro. He is a husband, a father, a grandfather, a golfer, a course designer, a former golf manufacturer (NICKLAUS GOLF - after his stint with MacGregor) and a very humble person. They don't make them like that anymore and probably won't ever again. He was loyal to his golf teacher, Jack Grout and his caddie, Angelo Argea...what more can be said about him? I feel he truly was the greatest modern day golfer the game has had.