Golf and Attitude

[Exactice808]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1400714998' post='9342717']
[quote name='copperjeff' timestamp='1400688457' post='9339897']
I think that trying to hole out every shot or being so precise just puts way to much pressure on yourself. I think you pick your target and shot shape, and then just concentrate on making a good swing. For me, making sure my tempo is good on every swing keeps me level. If I keep my tempo, then I have accomplished my goal, if the ball takes a bad hop after that,its ok because my goal was tempo and I accomplished my goal. If my goal is to make the ball do something, and I get a bad bounce, then I get upset over an outcome I had no real control over.
[/quote]

Hey copper if you dont mind me using your post as an example for a moment to clarify my thoughts.

You are right as putting on more pressure on you can be more of a detriment than help let me try to explain this thought I have.

You have a 3ft putt that is completely straight, 99% of the people on this board would "expect" to make it 100% of the time right? When we walk up to this put mentally we are saying we are going to make this there is no doubt fear, or I doubt there is extra stress or anything as under normal circumstances we would all make it (example)

Now my example is you know this mental feeling, Somehow we applied it to many of our shots regardless how much more difficult it is.

So as an example, we are 20ft on the fringe to a straight in flag position, relatively easy chip, now I would say 50% of the people would say I can hole this out, 25% say I can get this really really close and the last 25% are scared or doubtful of a yip, or a skull or chunk etc. What if we told that last 25% to drop all doubt and just tell themselves they can hole this shot, do you think their outcomes would be different?

[b]Again I am applying these thoughts to shots that are relative to the persons skill and legitimate shot situations, not some random almost impossible for anyone to hit shots, Im talking about those 15ft putts or those 20ft straight chips or even 100 yards open flag stick shots[/b]

Ask yourself, is the first thing you do when you step up to that 20ft chip do you say "Im going to hole this" or "I need to get this close for that 1 putt" I know that I am saying i need to get this close, when I should be saying I can hole this out?
[/quote]
[quote name='Ian 72' timestamp='1400978483' post='9361747']
You may think all you wish, but if you are not a good player due to your technique or co-ordination, you shall remain a not-good player.
If you are a poor scorer due to choices and attitude this could help.
Cheers
[/quote]

[juliette91]

[quote name='ronstelten' timestamp='1400630024' post='9335257']
Focused concentration is very good and from what you described that is what you are experiencing.

The danger is that you may be focusing your attention on outcome and that is not what great players do.

Great players focus their concentration on the process. I call it process goals vs. outcome goals.

Great players focus their concentration on thing like, "make my best swing", "best tempo of the day", "perfect back and through stroke".

Great players do visualize or imagine the ball flying and going to the target but that is not the focus of their concentration.

Truth be know, once the ball leaves the club face the outcome of the shot is out of the golfers control. Great golfers stick to what they can control and that is the process.
[/quote]

I agree with this post, focusing on process not outcome. Now your experience is a bit different that these players you competed with expect to make the chip the putt, etc., and they succeed regularly according to you. Hard to argue with but overall it's much better if you take a less cheerleader approach and instead take a casual indifference to the result. You know you've done well before, but you know you've screwed up before too, you're not sure which one will show up with this shot but you know you're capable of a good one.

I think this kind of thought process frees you up to do your best. You don't have any self imposed pressure (which "I will make this…" actually inflicts), you have confidence you've done well before with this shot, but you've acknowledged you really don't know how it will come out. So you're free to take a whack at it with no holds barred.

The key is that you're not pressuring yourself to do anything, but freeing yourself to do something.

[jbucher]

Very interesting thread. I am going to play tomorrow at fairly tight executive course with a par of 65. I will keep in mind just to slow down and think about every shot. Hopefully putting this threads info to good use.
Jimmy B

[epixep]

"Confidence is simply playing with your eyes." - Dr. Bob Rotella

Pick a target, see the ball traveling however best fits your imagination, and go.

"Mentally tough" players can revert to the above basics when all else is astray. A positive attitude and strong self-belief are essential, but [i][b]only [/b][/i]because they make the above easier and more likely. Some players are able to freak out and focus when needed (i.e. Bubba, Perez), but it's far from easy.

Someone that stands over the ball and thinks about holing out a given shot will not perform as well as if he envisions the blade of grass on the lip of the cup. I always tell myself I'm going to hole out [i]every. single. shot[/i] around the green, but it's not what I think about over the ball. It's [b]not [/b]about thoughts over the ball, it's about the target and getting so into it that you practically zone out.

And [i][b]always[/b][/i] play to hole out. Unless you're playing a shot away from a certain pin, aim to make it! That doesn't mean try and ram it in the back of every cup; if it's a slippery 40 footer then try to have the ball fall in on it's last revolution. I've never understood aiming for a 3 foot circle or the like on chips or putts. Make the damn thing, and if you don't you'll probably be better off than not hitting your 3 foot pseudo-target.

The most influential Rotella-ism I've experienced has been setting up to every shot knowing that I'm going to execute it to perfection but not caring whatsoever about the result. It's completely contradictory, and wonderfully effective.

[ronstelten]

[quote name='epixep' timestamp='1401069321' post='9366541']
"Confidence is simply playing with your eyes." - Dr. Bob Rotella

Pick a target, see the ball traveling however best fits your imagination, and go.

"Mentally tough" players can revert to the above basics when all else is astray. A positive attitude and strong self-belief are essential, but [i][b]only [/b][/i]because they make the above easier and more likely. Some players are able to freak out and focus when needed (i.e. Bubba, Perez), but it's far from easy.

Someone that stands over the ball and thinks about holing out a given shot will not perform as well as if he envisions the blade of grass on the lip of the cup. I always tell myself I'm going to hole out [i]every. single. shot[/i] around the green, but it's not what I think about over the ball. It's [b]not [/b]about thoughts over the ball, it's about the target and getting so into it that you practically zone out.

And [i][b]always[/b][/i] play to hole out. Unless you're playing a shot away from a certain pin, aim to make it! That doesn't mean try and ram it in the back of every cup; if it's a slippery 40 footer then try to have the ball fall in on it's last revolution. I've never understood aiming for a 3 foot circle or the like on chips or putts. Make the damn thing, and if you don't you'll probably be better off than not hitting your 3 foot pseudo-target.

The most influential Rotella-ism I've experienced has been setting up to every shot knowing that I'm going to execute it to perfection but not caring whatsoever about the result. It's completely contradictory, and wonderfully effective.
[/quote]

There is no contradiction in the "Rotella-ism" although I do understand your point of view.

A hallmark of Bob Rotella's system is to control that which you can control and nothing more. Rotella wants you to care about the result that you can control namely the execution of the swing.

I break it down into process goals and outcome goals (I am sure that I am not alone in the use of those terms). The golfer is in charge of the process and should judge himself by that alone. Once the ball has left the club face things are now out of the golfers control, this is the outcome. Bad things can happen to a golfer who's focus is on outcome when it should be on process.

[jbucher]

Well my round on Monday didn't go as expected. Trying to go slow and have a PMA (positive Mental Attitude) didn't work on this round. I just had a feeling on the first tee. Shot 11 over on a par 65 short course. My wife on the other hand shot great for her on the front 9. She had her meltdown on 10 and 11 and then regained her composure.
I usually trust my gut feeling of how relaxed I feel on #1 tee. Yesterday was too tense. Next round we'll see what happens.
JB

[ronstelten]

[quote name='jbucher' timestamp='1401215548' post='9375225']
Well my round on Monday didn't go as expected. Trying to go slow and have a PMA (positive Mental Attitude) didn't work on this round. I just had a feeling on the first tee. Shot 11 over on a par 65 short course. My wife on the other hand shot great for her on the front 9. She had her meltdown on 10 and 11 and then regained her composure.
I usually trust my gut feeling of how relaxed I feel on #1 tee. Yesterday was too tense. Next round we'll see what happens.
JB
[/quote]

Everything has to be practiced. No one ever change their mental approach to the game in one day.

On the first day of change the mind is preoccupied with "did I do it right or did I do it wrong". When change stops being a test and you "own it" change is complete. How long change take is anyones guess. The question you must ask yourself is: will I stick with the change or will I retreat back to the guy I wanted to change?

[Exactice808]

So, I played another round with my bosses, it was a shamble tournament, we shot pretty well, made a natural eagle and a bunch of birdies. The funny part was the natural eagle, I truly believe was my attitude to the hole. Drive was good right in the middle, had a hybrid to the green, water on the right wind blowing from right to left. I told my partners Im going to hit a cut shot. I hit the second shot, cuts but the wind held it up. Pin high but right off on the fringe. I go up for the putt, all I am saying is Im going to make this shot. No doubt just looking at the whole and saying its going in. Roll the putt and that ball doesnt go anywhere but down the throat.

So this theory has been working for me. I feel so much more confident and I am having more fun with the game. My short game probably has taken the greatest turn for the better. Anything within 50 yards I feel much more comfortable. Even when I miss now, the misses are still close and easy kick in pars, or bogeys. No 3ft, 3putts any more or super skulls or thins over greens 10 yards from the pin.

[Exactice808]

So I kinda want to steer this thread a little as I was watching random videos and had me thinking about Tiger and Patrick Reed.

Tiger as "Arrogant" as everyone makes him out to be, makes me questions is he really that bad. Patrick Reed seems to me another questionable person.

Im not going to lie, with this thread that I started compared to my responses to the Patrick Reed indecent, I seem like a hypocrite, but I am questioning myself now if I was wrong or not.

Golf Attitude, needs to be there. As "Bob Rotella" was highlighted previously by another poster, you should be stepping up to the shot with the mindset that you will hole it out.

Tiger goes into a tournament with the mindset that he will win the tournament. With in the tournament I am sure every shot he is thinking that he will hole it . Is that arrogant, or is that what is needed to be a winner/ #1 in the world.

Now lets take Patrick Reed, He is probably doing the same, but was his statement, "that I am playing to the top 5 in the world" arrogant or attitude? I now see myself when I go to a putt or chip and I am telling myself Im going to hole this shot out, as great attitude, but if I was standing on the side watching myself it could come off as arrogant and almost narcissistic.

Is there a line between attitude and arrogance. Or is it really the same....... Damn I wonder if I look like an arrogant ***** the last couple rounds....

[ucfdad]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1401482016' post='9398347']
So I kinda want to steer this thread a little as I was watching random videos and had me thinking about Tiger and Patrick Reed.

Tiger as "Arrogant" as everyone makes him out to be, makes me questions is he really that bad. Patrick Reed seems to me another questionable person.

Im not going to lie, with this thread that I started compared to my responses to the Patrick Reed indecent, I seem like a hypocrite, but I am questioning myself now if I was wrong or not.

Golf Attitude, needs to be there. As "Bob Rotella" was highlighted previously by another poster, you should be stepping up to the shot with the mindset that you will hole it out.

Tiger goes into a tournament with the mindset that he will win the tournament. With in the tournament I am sure every shot he is thinking that he will hole it . Is that arrogant, or is that what is needed to be a winner/ #1 in the world.

Now lets take Patrick Reed, He is probably doing the same, but was his statement, "that I am playing to the top 5 in the world" arrogant or attitude? I now see myself when I go to a putt or chip and I am telling myself Im going to hole this shot out, as great attitude, but if I was standing on the side watching myself it could come off as arrogant and almost narcissistic.

Is there a line between attitude and arrogance. Or is it really the same....... Damn I wonder if I look like an arrogant ***** the last couple rounds....
[/quote]
I think there is a difference. I have no problem with Reed saying that. He at that time was playing like a top 5 player, maybe not in the official world ranking which covers 2 years, but for that stretch of time he definitely was one of the top 5. I consider Reed an example of attitude.

I am not a Tiger fan, but as it relates to golf shots, I think attitude. He knew he was going to make the shots and so did everyone else. However his demeanor screamed arrogant. I am sorry but if you can't shift out of golf mode to smile at a kid on the way to the next tee, or talk to a volunteer in the fairway that screams arrogance to me.

As far as your experiment, I have been scoring under average of course not as low as I would like, but the talking to myself and the visualizing has lowered my scores. Keep up the good playing.

[Atrayn]

Good shots breed confidence. Confidence breeds creativity.

I was practicing my short game last night and hitting really consistent pitches and chips into several different pins. Got to the point where I'm putting cut spin and over spin on the ball at will at will trying different approaches to the hole with different shots. Using cuts or draws into slopes to keep the ball relatively on line into the pin trying to make everything.

Been working the ball off the tee and into pins way more this year resulting in way more saves and birdies. I would never have even thought of it years ago when I had zero control over the ball.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1400626972' post='9334929']
But their mental approach is something out of this world. When they say they are going to make a shot, or do something. As ridiculous as it seems, they either do it, or damn near close.

.These guys are telling themselves that they "WILL" chip it in, there is no doubt in their mind. This goes the same with putts. Im looking at getting it close or getting the speed right etc.... these guys are telling themselves the ball will fall in the hole.




Do you think this mental thought if "will" is another key to golf or is it pure talent/skill

[/quote]

Its a learned skill.

[epixep]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1401482016' post='9398347']
So I kinda want to steer this thread a little as I was watching random videos and had me thinking about Tiger and Patrick Reed.

Tiger as "Arrogant" as everyone makes him out to be, makes me questions is he really that bad. Patrick Reed seems to me another questionable person.

Im not going to lie, with this thread that I started compared to my responses to the Patrick Reed indecent, I seem like a hypocrite, but I am questioning myself now if I was wrong or not.

Golf Attitude, needs to be there. As "Bob Rotella" was highlighted previously by another poster, you should be stepping up to the shot with the mindset that you will hole it out.

Tiger goes into a tournament with the mindset that he will win the tournament. With in the tournament I am sure every shot he is thinking that he will hole it . Is that arrogant, or is that what is needed to be a winner/ #1 in the world.

Now lets take Patrick Reed, He is probably doing the same, but was his statement, "that I am playing to the top 5 in the world" arrogant or attitude? I now see myself when I go to a putt or chip and I am telling myself Im going to hole this shot out, as great attitude, but if I was standing on the side watching myself it could come off as arrogant and almost narcissistic.

Is there a line between attitude and arrogance. Or is it really the same....... Damn I wonder if I look like an arrogant ***** the last couple rounds....
[/quote]

Another Rotella-ism: "inner arrogance", every player has it.

Reed should have known his comments would create a stir, which only diverts his focus away from where it should be. Tiger, and I'm sure many of the elite players on Tour, [i][u][b]know[/b][/u][/i] they are the best player to every grace us with their presence. All but one of them is wrong at any given time. Arrogance is essential, be arrogant! However, no one but you and maybe a significant other needs to know about it, it's not for them. Self-belief is for the self. Calling shots is fun, but if it's for anyone but yourself it's not going to last and you're partners might not enjoy it as much as you do.