Putting Suggestions - shoving it right mainly

[ssp]

Struggled with Putting my entire life. Always a relative term but always been my weakness. 53 now and it is getting worse. For many years I have tried to fight a true arc and done my best attempt at SBST. Not sure really why other than I wasn't very good with the arc approach either. Done all styles with very similar results.

 

The one common flaw is that I shove 75%+ of my misses 7-8 feet an under. I have a tendency to accelerate and shove my putts outside the line.

 

Going to embrace more of a natural arc for the remainder of the year and just stick with that for a while. My intentions are to use a Cameron Newport - but have never really tried a Toe Hang/Heal shafted putter.

 

2 key questions.

 

1. thoughts/drills to avoid shoving the putt outside the line.

.... a buddy says 'you need to release the toe of the putter' .... not really sure how to do that effectively.

 

2. Putter choice for this approach - Newport good as any for this style?

[Reasonability]

For a good book try Michael Breed's book -- The 3-Degree Putting Solution. He doesn't ram absolutes down your throat, discusses the advantages and disadvantages of different strokes and helps you find your own way.

For a good method (I haven't tried it but its all the rage lately)... Look into Aim - Point. It seems to have golfers feeling very confident about the way they read putts.

For a personal golfer-to-golfer tip... Here is mine: Once the putter is in the lifelines of the hands versus in the fingers, and thee eyes are over or just inside the ball at address -- the fulcrum of the swing is up by your left breast (for a right handed player). Any motion (SBST or otherwise) whereby the butt of the handle and head of the putter stop traveling TOGETHER in a straight line under that fulcrum point... then the club head's arc and the handle's arc are in conflict. Once this whole notion of where the fulcrum lives -- the stroke starts to flow through the ball and any form of the yips or confusion about the stroke eases up -- which is very freeing and reduces doubt/tension. Its gets a lot easier to feel confident and commit to the stroke that way.

If you're missing to the right... it will probably come down to that fulcrum issue... and/or alignment (including the eye line both over the ball and through the line). This is especially true once the putting grip and setup are solid,

That's the best I know to offer my friend. Hope at least something in that mess helps you out a little, Best of luck.

[golfinglarrypiersall]

Ball position...and use two sticks from 3 feet just a tad wider than the putter head...keep the putter head in between the sticks back and through with the heel just over the inside stick when your done

[ssp]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1402942216' post='9507637']
For a good book try Michael Breed's book -- The 3-Degree Putting Solution. He doesn't ram absolutes down your throat, discusses the advantages and disadvantages of different strokes and helps you find your own way.

For a good method (I haven't tried it but its all the rage lately)... Look into Aim - Point. It seems to have golfers feeling very confident about the way they read putts.

For a personal golfer-to-golfer tip... Here is mine: Once the putter is in the lifelines of the hands versus in the fingers, and thee eyes are over or just inside the ball at address -- the fulcrum of the swing is up by your left breast (for a right handed player). Any motion (SBST or otherwise) whereby the butt of the handle and head of the putter stop traveling TOGETHER in a straight line under that fulcrum point... then the club head's arc and the handle's arc are in conflict. Once this whole notion of where the fulcrum lives -- the stroke starts to flow through the ball and any form of the yips or confusion about the stroke eases up -- which is very freeing and reduces doubt/tension. Its gets a lot easier to feel confident and commit to the stroke that way.

If you're missing to the right... it will probably come down to that fulcrum issue... and/or alignment (including the eye line both over the ball and through the line). This is especially true once the putting grip and setup are solid,

That's the best I know to offer my friend. Hope at least something in that mess helps you out a little, Best of luck.
[/quote]I will look more into this. I really noticed a difference in my stroke with the belly putter. With the anchor, it was impossible to 'shove' my hands at the hole and arc'd the putter more.

Watching a Crenshaw video and found it interesting he arc'd with the forward press. In a Utley video - he talks a bit about the forearms rotating (like your golf swing). I believe this will be an area I look more into as well.

[kidkendo]

[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1402941076' post='9507497']
Struggled with Putting my entire life. Always a relative term but always been my weakness. 53 now and it is getting worse. For many years I have tried to fight a true arc and done my best attempt at SBST. Not sure really why other than I wasn't very good with the arc approach either. Done all styles with very similar results.

The one common flaw is that I shove 75%+ of my misses 7-8 feet an under. I have a tendency to accelerate and shove my putts outside the line.

Going to embrace more of a natural arc for the remainder of the year and just stick with that for a while. My intentions are to use a Cameron Newport - but have never really tried a Toe Hang/Heal shafted putter.

2 key questions.

1. thoughts/drills to avoid shoving the putt outside the line.
.... a buddy says 'you need to release the toe of the putter' .... not really sure how to do that effectively.

2. Putter choice for this approach - Newport good as any for this style?
[/quote]

One question

Would you say you are right hand dominant in putting, if you are look at that, the right being too active can cause the putter path to go right, like your are trying to push it to the hole, try and keep both hands working together.

As small drill try putting left hand dominant mite help

[ssp]

[quote name='kidkendo' timestamp='1403035301' post='9517277']
[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1402941076' post='9507497']
Struggled with Putting my entire life. Always a relative term but always been my weakness. 53 now and it is getting worse. For many years I have tried to fight a true arc and done my best attempt at SBST. Not sure really why other than I wasn't very good with the arc approach either. Done all styles with very similar results.

The one common flaw is that I shove 75%+ of my misses 7-8 feet an under. I have a tendency to accelerate and shove my putts outside the line.

Going to embrace more of a natural arc for the remainder of the year and just stick with that for a while. My intentions are to use a Cameron Newport - but have never really tried a Toe Hang/Heal shafted putter.

2 key questions.

1. thoughts/drills to avoid shoving the putt outside the line.
.... a buddy says 'you need to release the toe of the putter' .... not really sure how to do that effectively.

2. Putter choice for this approach - Newport good as any for this style?
[/quote]

One question

Would you say you are right hand dominant in putting, if you are look at that, the right being too active can cause the putter path to go right, like your are trying to push it to the hole, try and keep both hands working together.

As small drill try putting left hand dominant mite help
[/quote]too be honest not sure .... but would think I am more left handed dominant. The tendency is to block with the back of my left hand - even to the extreme at time of 'bowing' the left wrist (ie - more forward press at impact).

[brtnsbs]

My favorite drill is the "Tiger Woods" gate drill (I know he's not the only one to use it but he made it more famous). Find a straight putt on the practice green from 6-8 feet. Put two tees just wider than your putter into the ground. Since your left hand dominant, or feel that way, try and hit putts with your right hand only. Start out with a goal to make 5 in a row with your right hand only and not hitting either tee. Once you do that make 5 in a row with both hands. It will ensure a consistent stroke, get your right hand more involved, and improve ball contact on putts (you're going to hit them way more solidly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKr-8wIJEuw

[lincolnduff]

I really like the putting mirror from eyeline golf. Its discussed in this forum below. But you can put a gate (2 tees) and it really helps keep the face square.
http://www.golfwrx.com/124068/simple-aids-to-help-cut-your-handicap-do-they-work/

[ebk]

One other thing to go with the good ideas above: does your putter have too much offset?

A very highly regarded putter maker told me that he thinks too many players use too much offset. Apparently, it can cause all kinds of misses.

[FullOfBrushMan]

[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1402941076' post='9507497']
Struggled with Putting my entire life. Always a relative term but always been my weakness. 53 now and it is getting worse. For many years I have tried to fight a true arc and done my best attempt at SBST. Not sure really why other than I wasn't very good with the arc approach either. Done all styles with very similar results.

The one common flaw is that I shove 75%+ of my misses 7-8 feet an under. I have a tendency to accelerate and shove my putts outside the line.

Going to embrace more of a natural arc for the remainder of the year and just stick with that for a while. My intentions are to use a Cameron Newport - but have never really tried a Toe Hang/Heal shafted putter.

2 key questions.

1. thoughts/drills to avoid shoving the putt outside the line.
.... a buddy says 'you need to release the toe of the putter' .... not really sure how to do that effectively.

2. Putter choice for this approach - Newport good as any for this style?
[/quote]
Go see a professional. Hopefully one that has a SAM Putt Lab.

I think your stroke and setup are all over the place thus the common push miss if you are missing 75% of the time from a position that commonly misses at ~50%. Just saying.

[JHam10]

I tend to push a lot of putts as well. I recently bought a putting mirror from DSG for like $20, but it really showed me how I have a strong arc going back but no arc on the follow through. I would think this would cause my pushes to the right since I'm not releasing the putter head (I also tend to push more short putts than the longer ones).

I'm now making a conscious effort to relase the putter, but it just doesn't feel natural. Are there any drills to help with this or do I just need repetition until muscle memory takes over?

[Wasted_Talent]

I had this issue and my fix was to feel like my left bicep stayed connected to my ribs. This eliminated the block stroke at impact and the clubhead lifting quickly. It made the release of the toe a natural movement for me.

[Reasonability]

JHam,

To me your question is a yes AND no proposition that may need a little sorting out and time. YES... new swinging techniques can feel very strange on the way to being grooved -- especially when you are very purposeful in the whole picture of grip, posture, eye line, and motion. The putt being rebuilt in a focused plan feels horrible at first. (usually)

NO... no putting style is worth pursuing if you make a mechanical motion based on a tip or idea [u][b]in isolation[/b][/u]... and all it does to you is feel terrible from day one and go downhill from there.

Not sure I am answering your question exactly how you were hoping. Just wanted to offer something form a guy with a history of cross-handed and back, putter brands and back... and eventually one day decided to look at putting in terms of why and how my own eye-line, grip, stance, and putting style, etc. interrelate.

For me its just little inside to square to inside -- the fulcrum of the "pendulum" is up in the chest and toward the target side of the sternum. This keeps the hands, arms, and handle moving with the clubhead back and through and there is a bit of an arc to that swing. My eye line is just inside the ball. I set myself and grip so that the putter shaft is on and stays on that "fulcrum line" back and through.

But that's me. That thought may not work well for others. The point being, had I approached putting by (example) just adding more forward press, or just changing the grip... I would have ended up changing for the sake of change -- and the psychological benefit of convincing myself some "new" tip would dramatically change my game. For me these were all temporary Band-Aids.

Sometimes such changes based on an isolated tip or feel are powerful and lasting -- often times not so much so... different strokes for different folks as they say.

[Curlyman83]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1402942216' post='9507637']For a good book try Michael Breed's book -- The 3-Degree Putting Solution. He doesn't ram absolutes down your throat, discusses the advantages and disadvantages of different strokes and helps you find your own way.

For a good method (I haven't tried it but its all the rage lately)... Look into Aim - Point. It seems to have golfers feeling very confident about the way they read putts.

For a personal golfer-to-golfer tip... Here is mine: Once the putter is in the lifelines of the hands versus in the fingers, and thee eyes are over or just inside the ball at address -- the fulcrum of the swing is up by your left breast (for a right handed player). Any motion (SBST or otherwise) whereby the butt of the handle and head of the putter stop traveling TOGETHER in a straight line under that fulcrum point... then the club head's arc and the handle's arc are in conflict. Once this whole notion of where the fulcrum lives -- the stroke starts to flow through the ball and any form of the yips or confusion about the stroke eases up -- which is very freeing and reduces doubt/tension. Its gets a lot easier to feel confident and commit to the stroke that way.

If you're missing to the right... it will probably come down to that fulcrum issue... and/or alignment (including the eye line both over the ball and through the line). This is especially true once the putting grip and setup are solid,

That's the best I know to offer my friend. Hope at least something in that mess helps you out a little, Best of luck.[/quote]

I've seen you plug this book a few times, Reasonability, so I might have to take a look, even though my putting has improved no end recently.

The one thing that really worked for me was focussing on shortening my backswing and concentrating on accelerating through the putt (a shorter backswing decreases my tendency to twist the face causing a push/pull). It has made it much easier for me to control distance too, which has drastically reduced those 3-putt nightmares!

[Reasonability]

[quote name='Curlyman83' timestamp='1403559317' post='9561017']
[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1402942216' post='9507637']For a good book try Michael Breed's book -- The 3-Degree Putting Solution. He doesn't ram absolutes down your throat, discusses the advantages and disadvantages of different strokes and helps you find your own way.

For a good method (I haven't tried it but its all the rage lately)... Look into Aim - Point. It seems to have golfers feeling very confident about the way they read putts.

For a personal golfer-to-golfer tip... Here is mine: Once the putter is in the lifelines of the hands versus in the fingers, and thee eyes are over or just inside the ball at address -- the fulcrum of the swing is up by your left breast (for a right handed player). Any motion (SBST or otherwise) whereby the butt of the handle and head of the putter stop traveling TOGETHER in a straight line under that fulcrum point... then the club head's arc and the handle's arc are in conflict. Once this whole notion of where the fulcrum lives -- the stroke starts to flow through the ball and any form of the yips or confusion about the stroke eases up -- which is very freeing and reduces doubt/tension. Its gets a lot easier to feel confident and commit to the stroke that way.

If you're missing to the right... it will probably come down to that fulcrum issue... and/or alignment (including the eye line both over the ball and through the line). This is especially true once the putting grip and setup are solid,

That's the best I know to offer my friend. Hope at least something in that mess helps you out a little, Best of luck.[/quote]

I've seen you plug this book a few times, Reasonability, so I might have to take a look, even though my putting has improved no end recently.

The one thing that really worked for me was focussing on shortening my backswing and concentrating on accelerating through the putt (a shorter backswing decreases my tendency to twist the face causing a push/pull). It has made it much easier for me to control distance too, which has drastically reduced those 3-putt nightmares!
[/quote]

I like the way you see your stroke (Breed or no Breed -- hope I'm not over hyping it.). My nemesis is the dreaded deceleration -- falling in love with the line when we all know you need to get the speed "feels" up and running. I can picture what you're describing in your stroke very well.

[JHam10]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1403557757' post='9560847']
JHam,

To me your question is a yes AND no proposition that may need a little sorting out and time. YES... new swinging techniques can feel very strange on the way to being grooved -- especially when you are very purposeful in the whole picture of grip, posture, eye line, and motion. The putt being rebuilt in a focused plan feels horrible at first. (usually)

NO... no putting style is worth pursuing if you make a mechanical motion based on a tip or idea [u][b]in isolation[/b][/u]... and all it does to you is feel terrible from day one and go downhill from there.

Not sure I am answering your question exactly how you were hoping. Just wanted to offer something form a guy with a history of cross-handed and back, putter brands and back... and eventually one day decided to look at putting in terms of why and how my own eye-line, grip, stance, and putting style, etc. interrelate.

For me its just little inside to square to inside -- the fulcrum of the "pendulum" is up in the chest and toward the target side of the sternum. This keeps the hands, arms, and handle moving with the clubhead back and through and there is a bit of an arc to that swing. My eye line is just inside the ball. I set myself and grip so that the putter shaft is on and stays on that "fulcrum line" back and through.

But that's me. That thought may not work well for others. The point being, had I approached putting by (example) just adding more forward press, or just changing the grip... I would have ended up changing for the sake of change -- and the psychological benefit of convincing myself some "new" tip would dramatically change my game. For me these were all temporary Band-Aids.

Sometimes such changes based on an isolated tip or feel are powerful and lasting -- often times not so much so... different strokes for different folks as they say.
[/quote]

Completely understand where you're coming from. I feel like part of my putting woes come from lack of consistency and constantly changing/tweaking small variables in alignment, setup, grip, shaft lean, foot placement, etc. I'll find something that may work for a few rounds and then when it goes bad, I try something else in hopes of finding something. If I'm really struggling, I may not have a consistent putting approach from one hole to the next and just keep "trying" different things.

However, I'm currently at the point where I feel my setup is a little more consistent and the stroke feels a lot more natural, but I have a tendency to push putts to the right. I am putting slightly better than before, which I contribute to the consistency (but it was so bad before, it didn't take much to improve lol). My dilemma is what feels natural isn't getting the right results. Hopefully some time on the practice green will work out the awkwardness of the release and not be just another band aid for me

[PuttingDoctor]

[quote name='FullOfBrushMan' timestamp='1403109354' post='9524693']
[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1402941076' post='9507497']
Struggled with Putting my entire life. Always a relative term but always been my weakness. 53 now and it is getting worse. For many years I have tried to fight a true arc and done my best attempt at SBST. Not sure really why other than I wasn't very good with the arc approach either. Done all styles with very similar results.

The one common flaw is that I shove 75%+ of my misses 7-8 feet an under. I have a tendency to accelerate and shove my putts outside the line.

Going to embrace more of a natural arc for the remainder of the year and just stick with that for a while. My intentions are to use a Cameron Newport - but have never really tried a Toe Hang/Heal shafted putter.

2 key questions.

1. thoughts/drills to avoid shoving the putt outside the line.
.... a buddy says 'you need to release the toe of the putter' .... not really sure how to do that effectively.

2. Putter choice for this approach - Newport good as any for this style?
[/quote]
Go see a professional. Hopefully one that has a SAM Putt Lab.

I think your stroke and setup are all over the place thus the common push miss if you are missing 75% of the time from a position that commonly misses at ~50%. Just saying.
[/quote]

+1 FOBM!

My weekend 2 day putting school at Framingham CC had a couple of "shovers" present their issues. On my SAM PuttLab each tended to react to a mechanical / slow back stroke. Without tempo in the BS each had to create forward acceleration with more of a jerk than a stroke. The results are at best dismal.

I was in each case able to help develop tempo and pre-shot routine with sound fundamentals. In fact one 30 handicap player blew our minds the following day with SAM scores that simply where those of a low handicap player.

Putting is not rocket science, nor does it require brain surgery. It all boils down to "brain science!" With the proper fundamentals and solid focused practice you can challenge the best of the best on the putting green.

Seek professional help.

[ssp]

Thanks everybody for your ideas/suggestions!

[Reif]

I shove it right, too, but because that's where I'm lined up.

Unless I yank it left to compensate.

On a straight six footer, if I think I'm aimed in the middle, I'm lined up outside the right edge.

I've gotten my stroke straightened out, if I drop a chalkline I can make them all day.

But they won't let me take an alignment aid out on the course.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.