Aaron Baddeley - New Grant Waite Swing

[NewStart14]

Piss....piss.....piss some more.......

[AndyC]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403659593' post='9570763']No one ever said it did. It's walking the walk, as in playing to a high level and coaching people to high levels.[/quote]

I would certainly agree if he has coached people to high levels. Is there a list of golfers that Grant has elevated to high levels through his teaching?

[Just looking]

[quote name='DoctorLoomis' timestamp='1403644695' post='9569057']
BPH..... you're absolutely correct. I should have been more cordial and I apologize to anyone that was offended. As I said above I do not want to fight nor mud sling. I have no intention of doing that. My name was brought into this thread and some mean and untrue things were said. I simply should've not replied at all. That being said this will be my last post in this thread. I will not reply any further. I don't know what else I can say.
[/quote]

No need to apologize for standing up for yourself and calling out a ****** bag. Hopefully he now realizes he is one

[eightiron]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1403639323' post='9568335']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403639161' post='9568317']
Richie I don't normally disagree with you but Grant did more than "some work" with Andy and Mike after they published S&T. I mean we're talking 4+ years by my recollections. His swing was the model for stack and tilt more so than Charlie Wi's in my opinion for at least 2 years. Also his son's swing was basically the LH model(haven't seen it recently), and I doubt he was taking lessons from anyone besides his father.

Also if we're going to spend hours on the sweeping thing, lets take a step back on talk about sweeping. Like literally sweeping a floor. It's still a downward blow, it's just pretty shallow. Obviously something that's on the ground can't be hit solidly on the upstroke unless the ball is huge and the club isn't(which obviously isn't the case with golf). I have qualms about Mayo, like others, however it's silly to misrepresent someone when their wording is pretty simple to interpret.
[/quote]

you tell me to place the ball at the lowest part of my arc and sweep the ball with my irons because I will get more distance according to trackman numbers and I will be a terrible iron player, look at the best iron players, strong divots, Tiger woods.
[/quote]

I'd say this is a misconception of feel v real and could even be derived from morad patterns where there is a feel of being on top of the ball and the trail wrist increases flexion in the hitting zone , so some players especially better ones may feel they are hitting up even with short irons

[fowlerscousin]

His driver aesthetically is perfect

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403662144' post='9571147']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403659593' post='9570763']No one ever said it did. It's walking the walk, as in playing to a high level and coaching people to high levels.[/quote]

I would certainly agree if he has coached people to high levels. Is there a list of golfers that Grant has elevated to high levels through his teaching?
[/quote]

I'm not Grant's PR staff, nor does if someone coached people to high levels indicate if they actually know what they are doing. You seem to have an axe to grind so I'll just let that be.

[Mitchell]

Absolutely dreadful that instruction forum can degenerate into such immature bickering. Probably will not do any good for me to voice my criticisms here, just seem to recall a time in this particular section of site when differences of opinion/technique/method could all be discussed with civility and keeping in mind that purpose of forum was to encourage free flow of information among students of this great game to promote growth of same.

[kekoa]

Grant waite is my idol. One of the best ball strikers around

[RichieHunt]

Aaron's Earnings Per Event has increased by 65% since working with Grant. To me, that's a good investment.





RH

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1403666495' post='9571655']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1403639323' post='9568335']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403639161' post='9568317']
Richie I don't normally disagree with you but Grant did more than "some work" with Andy and Mike after they published S&T. I mean we're talking 4+ years by my recollections. His swing was the model for stack and tilt more so than Charlie Wi's in my opinion for at least 2 years. Also his son's swing was basically the LH model(haven't seen it recently), and I doubt he was taking lessons from anyone besides his father.

Also if we're going to spend hours on the sweeping thing, lets take a step back on talk about sweeping. Like literally sweeping a floor. It's still a downward blow, it's just pretty shallow. Obviously something that's on the ground can't be hit solidly on the upstroke unless the ball is huge and the club isn't(which obviously isn't the case with golf). I have qualms about Mayo, like others, however it's silly to misrepresent someone when their wording is pretty simple to interpret.
[/quote]

you tell me to place the ball at the lowest part of my arc and sweep the ball with my irons because I will get more distance according to trackman numbers and I will be a terrible iron player, look at the best iron players, strong divots, Tiger woods.
[/quote]

I'd say this is a misconception of feel v real and could even be derived from morad patterns where there is a feel of being on top of the ball and the trail wrist increases flexion in the hitting zone , so some players especially better ones may feel they are hitting up even with short irons
[/quote]

The article was directed towards players who dont have really fast swing speeds and according to trackman, hitting down on the ball and delofting will cause you to loose distance because it wont go as high as scooping at the lowest point of the arc. To me, placing the ball at the lowest part of the arc and sweeping it would be excellent for a little pitch shot where you are trying to use the bounce, not the leading edge.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Grant has studied under the best. Ben Doyle comes to mind

[justin10784]

If you look at video of the best ballstrikers, through impact, the hands are moving upwards and leftwards (for righties). Although the hands are moving in this direction, the club is still moving down as the wrists are uncocking.

[Yeballix]

Can anyone comment as to why Aaron is swinging better? What has grant Waite changed to make him better(if anything)?
Would love to hear the opinion of the forum.
Thankyou all

[pinhigh27]

Looks way less wipey to me than the swings I've seen over the last year.

[AndyC]

[quote name='Yeballix' timestamp='1403814200' post='9584993']
Can anyone comment as to why Aaron is swinging better? What has grant Waite changed to make him better(if anything)?
Would love to hear the opinion of the forum.
Thankyou all [/quote]

I can't speak to whether or not he is swinging better but here are his stats:

Driving accuracy 2014: 183 2013: 179 2012: 175

Greens in Reg 2014: 174 2013: 178 2012: 190

Ballstriking 2014: 172 2013: 178 2012: 179

Strokes Gained Putting 2014: 1 2013: 5 2012: 8


Seems to me like it's the same old Aaron only putting better.

[Yeballix]

Hi Andyc

Thank you for replying but I was hoping you or someone on here could give me technical/method reasons why he could be technically better now he is coached by Grant Waite compared to say a year ago.
His swing always looks great but as you point out his stats are always crap.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403815812' post='9585169']
[quote name='Yeballix' timestamp='1403814200' post='9584993']
Can anyone comment as to why Aaron is swinging better? What has grant Waite changed to make him better(if anything)?
Would love to hear the opinion of the forum.
Thankyou all [/quote]

I can't speak to whether or not he is swinging better but here are his stats:

Driving accuracy 2014: 183 2013: 179 2012: 175

Greens in Reg 2014: 174 2013: 178 2012: 190

Ballstriking 2014: 172 2013: 178 2012: 179

Strokes Gained Putting 2014: 1 2013: 5 2012: 8


Seems to me like it's the same old Aaron only putting better.
[/quote]

So moving up 16 spots in GIR over 2 years and the same difference in total ballstriking as his putting, isn't noticeable? Dude come back when you can be objective. Do you read the stuff you write?

[ctmason_98]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1403823167' post='9585959']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.
[/quote]

What do you mean? He can definitely hit it better than some tour pros, but as everyone knows hitting it well isn't everything in regards to scoring. Regardless, he still is an extremely good striker.

[AndyC]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403822755' post='9585903']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403815812' post='9585169']
[quote name='Yeballix' timestamp='1403814200' post='9584993']
Can anyone comment as to why Aaron is swinging better? What has grant Waite changed to make him better(if anything)?
Would love to hear the opinion of the forum.
Thankyou all [/quote]

I can't speak to whether or not he is swinging better but here are his stats:

Driving accuracy 2014: 183 2013: 179 2012: 175

Greens in Reg 2014: 174 2013: 178 2012: 190

Ballstriking 2014: 172 2013: 178 2012: 179

Strokes Gained Putting 2014: 1 2013: 5 2012: 8


Seems to me like it's the same old Aaron only putting better.
[/quote]

So moving up 16 spots in GIR over 2 years and the same difference in total ballstriking as his putting, isn't noticeable? Dude come back when you can be objective. Do you read the stuff you write?
[/quote]

You're joking, right? Statistically his "improvements" are at best a rounding error. At his rate of improvement he should be a top 150 guy in about 10 years. If not for his putting and short game he would be an also ran on the Australasian Tour.

Baddeley has been a favorite of mine since the days he won as an amateur. I would love to see him as a top player. The signs just aren't pointing in that direction.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403829077' post='9586487']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403822755' post='9585903']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403815812' post='9585169']
[quote name='Yeballix' timestamp='1403814200' post='9584993']
Can anyone comment as to why Aaron is swinging better? What has grant Waite changed to make him better(if anything)?
Would love to hear the opinion of the forum.
Thankyou all [/quote]

I can't speak to whether or not he is swinging better but here are his stats:

Driving accuracy 2014: 183 2013: 179 2012: 175

Greens in Reg 2014: 174 2013: 178 2012: 190

Ballstriking 2014: 172 2013: 178 2012: 179

Strokes Gained Putting 2014: 1 2013: 5 2012: 8


Seems to me like it's the same old Aaron only putting better.
[/quote]

So moving up 16 spots in GIR over 2 years and the same difference in total ballstriking as his putting, isn't noticeable? Dude come back when you can be objective. Do you read the stuff you write?
[/quote]

You're joking, right? Statistically his "improvements" are at best a rounding error. At his rate of improvement he should be a top 150 guy in about 10 years. If not for his putting and short game he would be an also ran on the Australasian Tour.

Baddeley has been a favorite of mine since the days he won as an amateur. I would love to see him as a top player. The signs just aren't pointing in that direction.
[/quote]

These changes aren't exactly instant. he's been working with them for what, 6-8 months at most? Also seeing as you want to make Grant look bad, I'm sure you cherry-picked the stats to do so.

[AndyC]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403825004' post='9586147']
[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1403823167' post='9585959']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.
[/quote]

What do you mean? He can definitely hit it better than some tour pros, but as everyone knows hitting it well isn't everything in regards to scoring. Regardless, he still is an extremely good striker.
[/quote]

According Mark Broadie and his study ballstriking means quite a bit. I find it ironic that Grant had his best ballstriking years in the mid 90s before he was educated by all of the golf gurus that he spent time with.

[AndyC]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403829398' post='9586529']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403829077' post='9586487']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403822755' post='9585903']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403815812' post='9585169']
[quote name='Yeballix' timestamp='1403814200' post='9584993']
Can anyone comment as to why Aaron is swinging better? What has grant Waite changed to make him better(if anything)?
Would love to hear the opinion of the forum.
Thankyou all [/quote]

I can't speak to whether or not he is swinging better but here are his stats:

Driving accuracy 2014: 183 2013: 179 2012: 175

Greens in Reg 2014: 174 2013: 178 2012: 190

Ballstriking 2014: 172 2013: 178 2012: 179

Strokes Gained Putting 2014: 1 2013: 5 2012: 8


Seems to me like it's the same old Aaron only putting better.
[/quote]

So moving up 16 spots in GIR over 2 years and the same difference in total ballstriking as his putting, isn't noticeable? Dude come back when you can be objective. Do you read the stuff you write?
[/quote]

You're joking, right? Statistically his "improvements" are at best a rounding error. At his rate of improvement he should be a top 150 guy in about 10 years. If not for his putting and short game he would be an also ran on the Australasian Tour.

Baddeley has been a favorite of mine since the days he won as an amateur. I would love to see him as a top player. The signs just aren't pointing in that direction.
[/quote]

These changes aren't exactly instant. he's been working with them for what, 6-8 months at most? Also seeing as you want to make Grant look bad, I'm sure you cherry-picked the stats to do so.
[/quote]

I have no agenda to make Grant look bad. I sincerely hope he has a great career as a teacher. By all accounts he seems like a great guy. The fact is he has been an official teacher for just over 2 years. I am not ready to anoint him one of the top teachers based on what he has done so far and because he as a good swing.

[eightiron]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403829446' post='9586535']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403825004' post='9586147']
[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1403823167' post='9585959']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.
[/quote]

What do you mean? He can definitely hit it better than some tour pros, but as everyone knows hitting it well isn't everything in regards to scoring. Regardless, he still is an extremely good striker.
[/quote]

According Mark Broadie and his study ballstriking means quite a bit. I find it ironic that Grant had his best ballstriking years in the mid 90s before he was educated by all of the golf gurus that he spent time with.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure Waite was seeing Mac Ogrady from early 90 ies could even have been earlier . Someone around here would know the exact timeline

[AndyC]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1403830455' post='9586629']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403829446' post='9586535']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403825004' post='9586147']
[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1403823167' post='9585959']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.
[/quote]

What do you mean? He can definitely hit it better than some tour pros, but as everyone knows hitting it well isn't everything in regards to scoring. Regardless, he still is an extremely good striker.
[/quote]

According Mark Broadie and his study ballstriking means quite a bit. I find it ironic that Grant had his best ballstriking years in the mid 90s before he was educated by all of the golf gurus that he spent time with.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure Waite was seeing Mac Ogrady from early 90 ies could even have been earlier . Someone around here would know the exact timeline
[/quote]

I think he was working with Dean Reinmuth when he won his only tournament.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

The timing looks odd on the downswing. Like his hands/club makes the first move down.

[bossdog]

[quote name='DoctorLoomis' timestamp='1403641260' post='9568643']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1403640416' post='9568499']
Wow a bit defensive there Joe? I've made no lies about you chief and I don't know you other than the impressions you've given to me based on your actions over time. You've been dodging me for years so yes, there's a reason I don't 'know' you.. maybe you saw me as competition or maybe you're just pissed because I called you out when you represent yourself as an expert here and blast members on other outlets. Glad you've had success with your Trackman but nothing I've said isn't exactly what many others are thinking ... difference is I'm not afraid to speak out loud Mr. Mayo.

Notice the post and split... wonder why he doesn't actively post here either anymore?
[/quote]

Damon, defensive??? Not at all. And the comment that Im dodging you???? I dodge you because I want nothing to do with you. And your comment that I see you as competition.....you must be crazy. You literally are insane if you think I see you as competition. And lastly, I refuse to get into a mudslinging contest with you. I want nothing to do with your games nor you personally. Im headed back to the range now to teach golf. Enough typing on a computer for me. We will be chatting soon.....I assure you.
[/quote]

Hahahah I'm literally LOLing, who does this guy think he is? "We will be chatting soon.....I assure you." Wow dude you must be big time

[Mitchell]

So other than fact that several supposed "professionals" seem to insist on conducting themselves as anything but, is there analysis or information that could be of benefit to others here?

[planeshifts]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1403830455' post='9586629']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403829446' post='9586535']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403825004' post='9586147']
[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1403823167' post='9585959']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.
[/quote]

What do you mean? He can definitely hit it better than some tour pros, but as everyone knows hitting it well isn't everything in regards to scoring. Regardless, he still is an extremely good striker.
[/quote]

According Mark Broadie and his study ballstriking means quite a bit. I find it ironic that Grant had his best ballstriking years in the mid 90s before he was educated by all of the golf gurus that he spent time with.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure Waite was seeing Mac Ogrady from early 90 ies could even have been earlier . Someone around here would know the exact timeline
[/quote]

Yes to this.

Plus, he must know everyone's deal, given he has been to so many on his journey !.

Someone once said that golf is the only sport where the number of teachers equals the number of players. Ultimately everyone is self taught, but having more information at hand helps to do that surely.

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1403830455' post='9586629']
[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1403829446' post='9586535']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403825004' post='9586147']
[quote name='ctmason_98' timestamp='1403823167' post='9585959']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1403583674' post='9563903']
Look at waite's swing now and how he hits it and tell me you wouldn't die for it. Yeah that's what I thought. [b]There are many PGA pros that would make a ton more money if they could hit it like that[/b].
[/quote]

Biggest fallacy in golf, right there in bold.
[/quote]

What do you mean? He can definitely hit it better than some tour pros, but as everyone knows hitting it well isn't everything in regards to scoring. Regardless, he still is an extremely good striker.
[/quote]

According Mark Broadie and his study ballstriking means quite a bit. I find it ironic that Grant had his best ballstriking years in the mid 90s before he was educated by all of the golf gurus that he spent time with.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure Waite was seeing Mac Ogrady from early 90 ies could even have been earlier . Someone around here would know the exact timeline
[/quote]

Yes, he was working with Mac for most of the 90's. I'm thinking '92 to '98-ish.

As a fellow statistician that works with Tour players, you can be a phenomenal ballstriker and still struggle to be successful on Tour if your putting and short game are bad enough.

Kevin Chappell's ballstriking is good enough to make him a top-10 player...in the world....but, his inability to putt well makes him a moderately successful Tour player.

Boo Weekley has been one of the premier ballstrikers in the world. The data backs this up. But, his putting and short game have been so bad that he almost lost his card a couple of years ago from it.

Charles Warren is arguably the best driver of the ball, pound-for-pound, in the world. And is great from the key distance on Tour (175-225 yards). But, can't keep his card because his putting is so awful.

Again, this isn't a subjective opinion, the pertinent metrics in the game bear this out.

One great point Broadie makes is that for a single tournament, putting has a larger influence on a player's success but over the longhaul, putting has less influence. For the most part, if you're going to win an event on Tour you had better finish with +0.5 putts gained per round or better (2 strokes gained for the entire 4 rounds). If you can't do that, your odds of winning dramatically drop-off because there is a point where you can only strike it so well. And that's why it's hard for guys like Chappell, Weekley, Warren and Waite to win...they can't reach that minimal threshold of putting performance. But, they keep their card because their ballstriking is so strong and like Broadie has written, over the longhaul putting has less influence on a Tour player's success.







RH