What separates extremely good putters from average putters? Mind or mechanics?

[27x10.5]

I'll start with why I'm asking:

 

Heard stories of a guy at our course that just has a lights out short game, well golf game overall. Always see him around but never played with him but finally did. He doesn't practice but grew up playing. The extent of his golf is sometimes playing once every two weeks, sometimes plays both weekend days but probably hasn't seen a range in years and the extent of his practice is about 5 minutes on the practice green before the round. Yet he is the best player there and virtually unbeatable when he's on.

 

What got me about this guy was his putting. We played a match and he literally made every single putt but 2 when he needed them. Not 3 footers, but like 5,10,12 foot putts. Just lining them up and rolling them in making birdies and saving par. Never seen anything like it other than on my TV, and off the tee he was playing poorly for how he usually plays.

 

So I'm wondering like what is this guy doing so different? Is it just a perfectly grooved stroke? Is his mind taking over? I feel like I have a pretty decent putting stroke and have actually been complimented on it in the past but I can't even hold a candle to this guys putting skills. And I practice. Everyone says you need to practice putting to be any decent at it but this guy just proves otherwise. I'm not saying I'm against practicing but I have no idea what to work on anymore. Do you just continue to work on the stroke or is that really going to help? There aren't too many ways to get the ball rolling so its hard for me to believe that there is a correct or incorrect method....it seems like it just shouldn't be hard at all. But it is.

 

I do my best to let my brain do the thinking and just let go and make a decent putt and I've improved a great deal but I still struggle with it. Now that I'm hitting the ball better the putting has really shown its face and how its holding me back. I really thought I was putting much better but when you run into a reality check like the above scenario...not so much.

 

Back to the main question, what are VERY good putters doing so differently that just the average putter isn't doing?

[MadGolfer76]

Why didn't you ask him this question?

[27x10.5]

Someday I will...but when he's having a bad day and my partner and I are trying to beat him and his in a match to move on to win a bunch of money it didn't feel like an opportune time to share golf tips. I'm just curious what the masses think that separates the good from the bad.

[Reasonability]

27,

MadGolfer is among the best on this board for asking a question rather than responding in absolute dos and don'ts. His talent for this provokes others to sort of revisit their question and help them think things through a little. Its an enviable quality. All you have to do is sit with his replies for a minute and sure enough he seems to have nailed it.

I am less talented than he on this front! My take is that we don't know what he (your playing partner) works on and when. Fred Couples, Bruce Lietzke, and any number of golfers are reported to be natural golfers who really don't practice too much and when they do, there isn't much mechanical stuff going on... these are the consummate "feel" golfers.

What we don't know is where your playing partner lands on this spectrum... and he may not be forthcoming and honest about it if asked. Everyone "probably" putts at home between rounds. There is likely some reasonable "stimp" on some area rug or carpeting that allows "good" putters to practice. As to it being a matter of feel versus mechanics???? I honestly don't know how it works for that individual. For me there has to be a healthy dose of both. I for one am NOT the guy who can show up once/week having not touched the putter and expect to drop less than 35 putts.... doesn't work that way for me, but I suppose there are those who can putt blindfolded very well without any practice at all.

[MrJones]

I'd say confidence. Confidence in your read, your stroke, and your speed. When you have confidence the 5 footers look as easy as the 2 footers.

I love it when I get behind a putt and it's just "there". I know exactly where and how hard to hit it and it drops.

[JPGolf FL]

A strong mind and focus can easily overcome bad mechanics. The best mechanics in the world will not overcome a weak mind and focus.

[HawkeyeDan]

Has he belonged there long? He may know the greens better than anyone else too.

[bpark1210]

Did you watch his routine?

I have a single digit handi PGA apprentice friend who is very similar to your guy and he consistently sticks to the same routine. First off he is a good greens reader, sees the breaks pretty much on point within a ball or two of the cup. He's rarely off line. Then he runs the same routine everytime, goes behind the ball, lines up, no practice stroke and just putts. If you have played the game long enough a consisten stroke comes naturally and it's really just up to reading greens.

[CactusGolf]

How did he get to the green? How was his iron play?

I would argue that good putting starts before you mark the ball. For example, leaving the ball on the green in the correct spot (uphill putt, flat spot, not excessive break).

[atlanta golfer]

I think the very best putters have natural god given talent, just like the very best ball strikers. if you read Tim Stockton's putting book, he basically says that he seldom practices putting himself / doesn't see the sense in spending more than 20 minutes or so on the green.

For example, you might ask the best hitters in major league baseball how they do what they do. And they could certainly explain the fundamentals to you which could help you some. But you could never do what they do, not matter how hard you worked at it.

The rest of us who may be good, average, or below average, just have to keep working to get better tomorrow than we were today which means lots of practice and a search for improved mental game and mechanics both. A continual journey.

[ronstelten]

I have been lucky enough to talk with many of the best putters of the last 50 years and I can tell you that there are many ways to to being a great putter but what they all have in common is confidence and a strong belief in their system.

Years ago I spent a great deal of time with George Archer. I once asked him why he putted so well. He said he putted well because he practiced one hour every day and one and one half hours when he was putting badly. Archer derived his confidence through practice.

Ben Crenshaw believes he makes a perfect stroke every time. When the ball doesn't go in the hole, it is not his fault, something out of his control kept the ball out of the hole. Crenshaw's confidence comes in large part from selective memory.

Carol Mann told me that she became a great putter through training. She said," I started doing everything the way I thought a great putter would do it, I even held my fork the way I though a great putter would hold a fork". Mann manufactured confidence through mental training

One trait that almost all great putters share is that they don't talk about bad putting. They may say that they didn't make putts today but they don't say that they putted badly.

I myself say this as part of my putting lessons, "Don't under any circumstances have dinner with bad putter. They are certain to talk about bad putting and you don't need to hear about it".

My advice is this; build your own system, do what you think you need to to be a be a great putter. Believing in yourself and your system is what will make you a great putter.

[27x10.5]

Yes he's been playing the course for years so definitely knows the breaks.

Additionally as much as I was trying to focus on my own game I was trying to take in the details. Very consistent and quick routine. Make a read, couple strokes, not much time over the ball and go.

I'm not like trying to decode this one guys putting DNA really just taking my observation of seeing an incredible putter and wondering how one gets there. I spent years working on the wrong things on my full swing until recently, I'd like to skip that on putting and maybe just uncover what the best direction to go with it would be.

[27x10.5]

Ronstelten didn't see the above post, very insightful. Thanks all for taking the time to post some good answers

[Ri_Redneck]

If the guy has been playing there for years, odds are he KNOWS THE GREENS really well. This is a huge edge in putting. It allows you to have much more confidence when approaching the putt. I would suspect he has developed a high level of "feel" over the years also. These two traits can give a golfer vast advantages on the course. You can talk mechanics and technique all you want, but course knowledge and short game "feel" can trump those in a heartbeat.

BT

[kellygreen]

Putting is 90% mental.

Good putters have:

1. [i]A putting stroke that REPEATS.[/i]

2. [i]A good feel for the SPEED of green[/i]s

3. [i]The ability to shut out distractions, and focus on what they WANT to happen...rather than what they are afraid might happen.[/i]

4. [i]The ability to accept missed putts. [/i]

OTOH, neurotic putters.


1. [i]Make stiff, mechanical strokes[/i]

2. [i]Focus on "line" without regard to the speed needed to get the ball to the hole.[/i]

3. [i]Struggle to shut out the mental noise of fear and doubt[/i].

4. [i]Are unable to accept that they have no real control over the outcome of a putt than the ability to roll the ball on the correct line, at the correct speed. [/i] [b]So they struggle on and on in an effort to exert some measure of control over the uncontrollable. [/b]

[b]Blind to the fact that if you roll the ball on the line you've chosen, at the speed you want...YOU'VE MADE A GOOD PUTT. End of story. If it fails to go in...then you simply MIS-READ that putt. [/b]

[Mob]

I played with a friend of mine last week who is a 6 handicap and seems to "show up" in any tournament play. In tournaments, he typically shoots in the mid 70's. He may be a sand bagger, but that is not the point. We were on a green and he had a 15 foot side hill putt. He missed the putt by an inch or so. He then tried two more times to make the putt, and missed narrowly each time. As he walked off the green he turned to me and said, "that putt is not makeable". The confidence in that statement made me realize why he plays so well. In his mind, he didn't miss the putt at all, it just wasn't a makeable putt.

[Reasonability]

[quote name='Mob' timestamp='1403809929' post='9584513']
I played with a friend of mine last week who is a 6 handicap and seems to "show up" in any tournament play. In tournaments, he typically shoots in the mid 70's. He may be a sand bagger, but that is not the point. We were on a green and he had a 15 foot side hill putt. He missed the putt by an inch or so. He then tried two more times to make the putt, and missed narrowly each time. As he walked off the green he turned to me and said, "that putt is not makeable". The confidence in that statement made me realize why he plays so well. In his mind, he didn't miss the putt at all, it just wasn't a makeable putt.
[/quote]

Very powerful on your part to observe that. Clearly, your playing partner commits to his stroke. In doing so, and as others have pointed out... once the ball is rolling and gone, he has given it all he can and lets any miss become the province of the spike marks, golf gods, the wind... whatever. His confidence and commitment to the next stroke will remain unflappable. Its not being cocky -- its just refusing to constantly doubt and demoralize yourself into oblivion... big difference. Sometimes outward verbalizations from such golfers can be a little annoying... but it's their way of staying in command of their ability to commit. Played with one partner for over two years who spoke out loud all the way to the next tee box about every putt. I knew what he was doing (for himself) and why -- but finally had to suggest one day that sometimes the inward thought is more powerful than the audible voice. I felt bad for suggesting and he took the hint. Fortunately we are friends and have joked about that day several times since. He was filling my head with so much of his putting process I could barely play my own game! We still joke about that day.

[larrybud]

I play with a guy on occasion on my league that is lights out the best putter I've ever seen. He has a great stroke, and can clearly read greens, and makes a ton of 10-15 footers. I never even thought about to ask him what goes through his mind, but we've always commented that he gets p~ssed when he misses a 12 footer, as if he clearly expects to make *everything*.

But I think all three, good stroke, good green reading, and high confidence must go in together, and all three are dependent upon each other.

[Huddy76]

Distance control and good visualisation

[Bobalu]

[quote name='Mob' timestamp='1403809929' post='9584513']
I played with a friend of mine last week who is a 6 handicap and seems to "show up" in any tournament play. In tournaments, he typically shoots in the mid 70's. He may be a sand bagger, but that is not the point. We were on a green and he had a 15 foot side hill putt. He missed the putt by an inch or so. He then tried two more times to make the putt, and missed narrowly each time. As he walked off the green he turned to me and said, "that putt is not makeable". The confidence in that statement made me realize why he plays so well. In his mind, he didn't miss the putt at all, it just wasn't a makeable putt.
[/quote]

[color=#333333][size=3][size=4]From Andrew Fogg's website/DVD:[/size][/size][/color]

[color=#333333][size=3][size=4]Jack Nicklaus is arguably the greatest living golfer and a good putter. However in his mind, he remembers that he is an even greater putter… I’m sure that you’ve heard the story of him telling an audience that he has never three putted the last hole of a tournament or missed from inside of three feet. As Jack opens the floor to take questions, a man puts up his hand and says to Nicklaus:[/size][/size][/color]

[color=#333333][size=3][size=4]“Jack you say you have never missed from inside of three feet on the last hole of a tournament, but I was watching you last month in a major tournament and that’s exactly what you did.” Jack looked at the man with those piercing blue eyes and repeated that he had never missed from inside of three feet on the last hole of a tournament. “But Mr Nicklaus”, the man insisted, “I saw it, I have it on film, I can send it to you if you like”. “No need”, Jack replied, “I have never missed from inside of three feet on the last hole of a tournament. Are there any more questions?”[/size][/size][/color]

[pmcuk]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1403809345' post='9584431']
Putting is 90% mental.

Good putters have:

1. [i]A putting stroke that REPEATS.[/i]

2. [i]A good feel for the SPEED of green[/i]s

3. [i]The ability to shut out distractions, and focus on what they WANT to happen...rather than what they are afraid might happen.[/i]

4. [i]The ability to accept missed putts. [/i]

[/quote]

That's definitely me - recognise all of that. I'm not a great putter because I need more practice in reading greens - that's where I'd miss a putt. But the rest is spot on.

[jptruck]

[quote name='MrJones' timestamp='1403804985' post='9583919']
I'd say confidence. Confidence in your read, your stroke, and your speed. When you have confidence the 5 footers look as easy as the 2 footers.

I love it when I get behind a putt and it's just "there". I know exactly where and how hard to hit it and it drops.
[/quote]

I'll second this. I'm an average ball striker, but a very good putter of the golf ball. When I'm confident in the speed of the greens, everything drops. It's not something that can be taught. If you have faith that the putt will drop, it's amazing what can happen. I don't really practice putting except to get green speeds, I don't switch putters (have the same one for 10 years) and I don't think about mechanics. Just line it up and hit it in the hole.

It also helps to play for money. When a putt means the difference between going out to dinner or eating Rammen, you tend to focus.

One last point, one of the best putters I know has a horrible stroke but very good memory. He's more likely to miss a 2-footer than a 10-footer. Reason being, when he knows the break and speed (which he has a good memory for), he'll hit a good putt. When he thinks about mechanics on short putts, he misses. It's odd, but I can't argue with results.

[rybo]

In all of my years of playing two people have really stuck out with their putting ability. Ted Potter Jr, currently on the PGA Tour, and Jeff Corr, a minitour legend. Played with both during my Hooter days and their ability to get the ball in the hole was insane. I think the biggest thing for these two was the desire to make the next putt. If they missed a putt they just moved on. I'm sure when they missed a putt they were not happy but it did not stick with them. They just made the next putt. Teddy would putt so aggressively that it seemed like he dented the back of the hole at times, never saw anybody have so many 5-6' come back putts, and saw Jeff shoot 63 barely lining up any putt inside of 5'.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1403875569' post='9589373']
[quote name='MrJones' timestamp='1403804985' post='9583919']
I'd say confidence. Confidence in your read, your stroke, and your speed. When you have confidence the 5 footers look as easy as the 2 footers.

I love it when I get behind a putt and it's just "there". I know exactly where and how hard to hit it and it drops.
[/quote]

I'll second this. I'm an average ball striker, but a very good putter of the golf ball. When I'm confident in the speed of the greens, everything drops. [i][b]It's not something that can be taught.[/b][/i] If you have faith that the putt will drop, it's amazing what can happen. I don't really practice putting except to get green speeds, I don't switch putters (have the same one for 10 years) and I don't think about mechanics. Just line it up and hit it in the hole.

It also helps to play for money. When a putt means the difference between going out to dinner or eating Rammen, you tend to focus.

One last point, one of the best putters I know has a horrible stroke but very good memory. He's more likely to miss a 2-footer than a 10-footer. Reason being, when he knows the break and speed (which he has a good memory for), he'll hit a good putt. When he thinks about mechanics on short putts, he misses. It's odd, but I can't argue with results.
[/quote]

Disagree.

It CAN be taught. It's just that most instruction focuses on the wrong things.

Most instruction focuses on the mechanics of putting. But all you need is a stroke that will roll the ball where you want it...at the speed you want it. Everything else is background noise (at best)...counterproductive at worst.

Where most people need help is in focusing their minds and TRUSTING the intuitive/feeling part of their brain to get the job done. The problem is that most people don't know HOW to teach that. Not that it cannot be taught.

Most people who know how to do this...have picked it up unconsciously...and can't put into words how they did it.

People who don't know how to do it...usually don't know how vital it is to good putting....and hitting:


[i]"Mr. Berra, what do you think about when you're in the batters box about to hit?"[/i]

[i]"[b]You can think and hit at the same time???"[/b][/i]

[jptruck]

True, but most people teach mechanics instead of psychology. I'll say that it can be taught, but it's much harder to teach and retain.

[Hoot151]

I agree that confidence is key, but what do you do when you've missed so many putts that your confidence is gone? I'm talking about constantly burning the edge and lip outs, they just won't fall. This is where I have been for a long time and eventually you start to think "I'm cursed".

[double_d]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1403803402' post='9583751']
I'll start with why I'm asking:

Heard stories of a guy at our course that just has a lights out short game, well golf game overall. Always see him around but never played with him but finally did. He doesn't practice but grew up playing. The extent of his golf is sometimes playing once every two weeks, sometimes plays both weekend days but probably hasn't seen a range in years and the extent of his practice is about 5 minutes on the practice green before the round. Yet he is the best player there and virtually unbeatable when he's on.

What got me about this guy was his putting. We played a match and he literally made every single putt but 2 when he needed them. Not 3 footers, but like 5,10,12 foot putts. Just lining them up and rolling them in making birdies and saving par. Never seen anything like it other than on my TV, and off the tee he was playing poorly for how he usually plays.

So I'm wondering like what is this guy doing so different? Is it just a perfectly grooved stroke? Is his mind taking over? I feel like I have a pretty decent putting stroke and have actually been complimented on it in the past but I can't even hold a candle to this guys putting skills. And I practice. Everyone says you need to practice putting to be any decent at it but this guy just proves otherwise. I'm not saying I'm against practicing but I have no idea what to work on anymore. Do you just continue to work on the stroke or is that really going to help? There aren't too many ways to get the ball rolling so its hard for me to believe that there is a correct or incorrect method....it seems like it just shouldn't be hard at all. But it is.

I do my best to let my brain do the thinking and just let go and make a decent putt and I've improved a great deal but I still struggle with it. Now that I'm hitting the ball better the putting has really shown its face and how its holding me back. I really thought I was putting much better but when you run into a reality check like the above scenario...not so much.

Back to the main question, what are VERY good putters doing so differently that just the average putter isn't doing?
[/quote]

1) He obviously can read greens. This takes exposure and practice.
2) I guarantee he is never thinking about his stroke or mechanics. He is thinking about the target and the target only.
3) This is the most important one. (Rotella and Faxon both have said this) He BELIEVES he is a good putter. He expects to make the putt and when he doesn't he can easily forget it and not dwell on it. So the next putt he once again believes he can't miss.

That's it. If you ask him he will either say the same or he will say, "I have no idea how I do it" Which means he does 1, 2, 3 but he is not even aware he is doing it. Which is actually what I would expect he would say and it is where you want to be to putt like a Brad Faxon or a Bobby Locke, etc...

[ronstelten]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1403878064' post='9589687']
I agree that confidence is key, but what do you do when you've missed so many putts that your confidence is gone? I'm talking about constantly burning the edge and lip outs, they just won't fall. This is where I have been for a long time and eventually you start to think "I'm cursed".
[/quote]

Every golfer misses more putts than they make. It's the putts that you remember that makes you a good or bad putter.

As I said earlier, selective memory is an important ingredient shared by the best putters. No matter how many putts they miss, they are confident that they will make the next one.

For golfers to improve their putting and join the ranks of good putters the first thing they must change is their thinking.

[jptruck]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1403878064' post='9589687']
I agree that confidence is key, but what do you do when you've missed so many putts that your confidence is gone? I'm talking about constantly burning the edge and lip outs, they just won't fall. This is where I have been for a long time and eventually you start to think "I'm cursed".
[/quote]

Putting is not 100%. If I'm burning edges, I'm doing something right and feel the next one will go in the hole.

[TheCityGame]

Putting is weird.

You need to be able to hit the line and the speed you intend. You need to learn this through practice on a practice green. You need to be able to stroll up to any 3 footer and be pretty sure you're making it. You should be able to roll in a dead-straight 8 footer pretty consistently. If you can't do that, then there's something wrong with your stroke. You need to practice.

But when you get that down, you need to start worrying about reading greens. Ability to read greens just seems experiential. You've been on 1000's of greens in your life. If you're really surprised by something, you need to pay more attention.

But, I don't know if putting is an art or a science. It dawned on me a long time ago that when I thought a putt was "right edge" (for example), I'd roll a putt right over the right edge. Or if I picked a "mark" on the green to roll the ball over on the way to the hole, I'd hit that mark every time. At some point, I just started thinking "make it" on every putt. I pick a place that I think the putt has to enter the hole, but very subconscious things happen. I might hit a putt with a foot of break and just kind of think that I played it straight at the hole because I was just thinking about the hole and all my experience put the foot of break on it. I don't even like to intellectualize it as much as I've done here.

I don't know if I'm good or not, but I NEVER think I putted poorly. I always just think that on some days, you hit 5/7 of your 50-50's and some days you hit 2/7 of your 50-50's and that's the way it goes. Oh, occasionally I make a bad stroke at a putt, but that doesn't really mean anything.

I missed a few short ones in a tournament last weekend, but I made some long ones, and the short ones were sort of difficult short ones. Just one of them would have made a difference in tournament results, but I also had a chip-in from a long way out and a 50 foot putt.

Does it sound like I'm rationalizing away bad putts? That's probably a good thing. You can't dwell on them. Sorry for the train of consciousness.

I'll tell ya one thing, though. I never change putters. I've had 2 putters in the last 30 years (well, 3, but one was stolen and I replaced it with same). I think changing putters is the worst kind of equipment change you can make.