Butch Harmon on why Tiger left him...

[ppjn348]

Found this to be interesting considering everyone said he left Butch to conserve his knee...

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2008-08/gd0608_harmontiger

[MonteScheinblum]

"If you told him he had to swing with a couple of loops in his backswing, Tiger would figure out a way to get it done and win. "

I've heard this somewhere before. :-)

[aliikane]

It is a really good article because it was written by Butch Harmon himself. I agree with Butch and think that a flatter swing plane can lead to more dispersion of shots as it is harder to control the direction of the clubface.

[tembolo1284]

All for more distance. Sad if true.

[FullOfBrushMan]

[quote]Ben Hogan taught that lesson to my father, and my father taught it to me: You can control your approach from the fairway, even if you're a little farther away from the hole. [/quote]

This alone has gotten me my lowest score in years.

[Daniel Eason]

The winner on Sunday just gone proves why he needs accurate distance......

[nova6868]

I'm all for hitting fairways, but I'm not sure if the stats back that up. Higher chance of birdie from like 150 in the rough compared to 200 in the fairway.

Also, Ben Hogan had one of the flattest swing planes of all time.

Just trying to spark some conversation.

[J13]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1406263111' post='9780805']
"If you told him he had to swing with a couple of loops in his backswing, Tiger would figure out a way to get it done and win. "

I've heard this somewhere before. :-)
[/quote]

People everywhere have been saying this for 15 years. He is so golf coordinated it's scary and the world new it in 1997

[gators78]

[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406299483' post='9782803']
Also, Ben Hogan had one of the flattest swing planes of all time.
[/quote]

And from all reports spent a ton of time trying to groove it.

[joey2aces]

[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406299483' post='9782803']
I'm all for hitting fairways, but I'm not sure if the stats back that up. Higher chance of birdie from like 150 in the rough compared to 200 in the fairway.

Also, Ben Hogan had one of the flattest swing planes of all time.

Just trying to spark some conversation.
[/quote]

I think (most of) these guys are hitting 6-7 irons in from 200 yards and, for me, I would rather have a 6-7 iron in from the fairway than a 9 iron from the rough... fliers, grabbing the club face etc. Tiger has proven he is stronger than most and able to hit the ball from those lies. I don't see how, other than ego, he can claim he would rather be in the rough than in the fairway. Then again, I am a mortal and he is Tiger.

[station2station]

This article is ancient. 2006. I don't think Butch's opinions would be the same today regarding Tiger's driving.

[nova6868]

I would have to dig around, but I thought there were PGA Tour stats showing higher birdie chances from closer range in the rough vs. 200+ from fairway.

[Ewmcdade]

[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406301891' post='9783121']
I would have to dig around, but I thought there were PGA Tour stats showing higher birdie chances from closer range in the rough vs. 200+ from fairway.
[/quote]

I believe you are correct, but I'd be interested to see that stats in Major Championship rough singled out. His goal is not to build a swing that wins the John Deere classic every year.

[joey2aces]

[quote name='Ewmcdade' timestamp='1406303409' post='9783317']
[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406301891' post='9783121']
I would have to dig around, but I thought there were PGA Tour stats showing higher birdie chances from closer range in the rough vs. 200+ from fairway.
[/quote]

I believe you are correct, but I'd be interested to see that stats in Major Championship rough singled out. His goal is not to build a swing that wins the John Deere classic every year.
[/quote]

this is what I was thinking and should have posted in my post.

[drewtaylor21]

[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406301891' post='9783121']
I would have to dig around, but I thought there were PGA Tour stats showing higher birdie chances from closer range in the rough vs. 200+ from fairway.
[/quote]

[attachment=2340843:Picture 4.png]

[Mike_C]

[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1406303996' post='9783409']
[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406301891' post='9783121']
I would have to dig around, but I thought there were PGA Tour stats showing higher birdie chances from closer range in the rough vs. 200+ from fairway.
[/quote]

[attachment=2340843:Picture 4.png]
[/quote]

Very interesting.

[mcputter]

I would have sworn that I'd heard that Butch wanted Tiger to stay with the shorter steel shafted driver and Tiger was the one who was eager to make the switch to a longer graphite-shafted bigger headed driver. This article implies the opposite.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

Butch is saying pretty much the same thing Haney said. Tiger with Haney hit a not so good looking tee ball but he could fade it and on bad days it just went a little more right, never left. When he went to Foley he change to a stronger grip so he could generate more power, which he does. So now with a stronger grip and a faster move to the ball he makes it a timing issue. He now tries to time it, if he doesn't and gets quick,,, snap hook. What happens after u snap it off the tee on the next tee box? You try to slow rotation,,, whamo slice, now the big miss takes over. There is no way to play good golf let alone great golf with a 2 way miss. Please tiger go back to Haney or Harmon.

[Dead Solid Perfect]

[quote name='joey2aces' timestamp='1406303785' post='9783367'][quote name='Ewmcdade' timestamp='1406303409' post='9783317']
[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1406301891' post='9783121']
I would have to dig around, but I thought there were PGA Tour stats showing higher birdie chances from closer range in the rough vs. 200+ from fairway.
[/quote]

I believe you are correct, but I'd be interested to see that stats in Major Championship rough singled out. His goal is not to build a swing that wins the John Deere classic every year.
[/quote]

this is what I was thinking and should have posted in my post.[/quote] you are correct I wrote an article for this site about that. There are a couple of big buts in there though. That is only comparing balls in rough not trees for one ( tiger is hitting way right and way left) the other is a Major course set up. If it's a major fairways matter more because the rough is more punishing. .... The quote I wanted was from Drew.

[Jaylasvegas]

Does anyone remember many years ago when Tiger was paired with Kenny Perry and Kenny was blowing it past Tiger, thats when Tiger started to look for more distance, he went thru a few different graphite shafts when he made the switch. I think Kenny Perry was the one to open Tigers eyes that the pack has caught him and hitting it further and much more accurate

[Will Par]

Why post a link to an article written 8 years ago? Nothing written then is relevant today. Mods, lock this one up. It was dead on arrival.

[middie8]

wait a minute? i thought butch always said he was the one that didnt want Tiger to go to the longer, graphite shafts. in that article its the opposite. i thought i read that in his book. i have to go look that up.

[middie8]

[quote name='mcputter' timestamp='1406311855' post='9784623']
I would have sworn that I'd heard that Butch wanted Tiger to stay with the shorter steel shafted driver and Tiger was the one who was eager to make the switch to a longer graphite-shafted bigger headed driver. This article implies the opposite.
[/quote]

whoa, didnt read this post but i said the same thing...

[ppjn348]

I don't quite get the distance need... he doesn't swing his driver in majors. He can still boom it though and his swing won him 5 tourneys last year.

[Nuggets]

A very good read and I do agree Tigers old swing was definitely nicer than his new one and the driver change would have been a better option

[ethanlculver]

Yeah, I read this a few weeks ago too.

I never believed Tiger left Harmon because of his left knee. Hank Haney said in his book that Tiger left Butch because Butch had a habit of bringing crowds of people around the range to watch practice sessions and Tiger grew tired of it. Not sure that that was really accurate, either.

However, I find it odd that Harmon says in there that "today" (when Tiger was with Haney), Tiger's swing is more horizontal and longer. It was much flatter, yes, but longer? Tiger's swing with Haney looked shorter than his swing with Harmon. Tiger used to get very close to going "across the line" with Harmon. With Haney, he was always laid off.

[pinhigh27]

Don't really understand the topic about accuracy from the rough of majors.. Tiger isn't exactly hitting a lot of drivers in the 3 majors that have penal rough, and so far, neither of those first 2 would have been penal at all. Somehow the usga didn't learn that pro golfers don't really struggle out of hitting it out of sparsely grassed waste areas... It's not like Tiger hits 10 drivers a round in the avg US open.

This year has not been a good year to advocate for the majors having punishing rough for scoring. Neither the US open or british had any severe penalties for missing the fairway and obviously Augusta doesn't even really have rough from a professional golf standpoint. The US open was a joke in that respect in my opinion. It was basically just like hitting off bare dirt, not exactly challenging, especially for full shots.

[MadGolfer76]

Technically, if we wanted the stats to be relevant, we would need to know how TW's scoring is reflected hitting from the rough...two holes over.

[DRGJR72]

[quote name='MrElculver2424' timestamp='1406329663' post='9786589']
Yeah, I read this a few weeks ago too.

I never believed Tiger left Harmon because of his left knee. [b]Hank Haney said in his book that Tiger left Butch because Butch had a habit of bringing crowds of people around the range to watch practice sessions and Tiger grew tired of it.[/b] Not sure that that was really accurate, either.

[/quote]

I worked with a fellow pro in South Florida for 8 years who is good friends with a few guys on tour. One of those guys gave him the reason behind the Tiger/Butch split. He was told that he witnessed a minor blow up just prior to the split. The blow up dealt with something similar to the exact thing mentioned above and some other issues. The last occasion happened during preparation for the Open Championship. Tiger felt Butch was holding court with his buddies and not taking his role of preparing Tiger for the major seriously. Needless to say some words were exchanged and it did not go over well and, the rest is history. Essentially Butchy was getting a little too big for his britches and Tiger was getting fed up with it.

I won't name the pro who told my friend for several reasons. But I can say with 100% confidence that this is what he was told by this player.

[ppjn348]

Foley said in an interview his goal was to get Tiger to hit the ball similar to what he was doing with Butch. A big difference I see is his upper right a glued to his chest. Not sure if that's too natural.