Trackman Numbers - Help please

[leric90]

So after a session at the range, I decided to get trackman numbers for my 7 iron (tour preferred cb's) with KBS Tour stiff flex

 

Avg

Distance - 190 yards

Carry - 186

Clubhead Speed - 89mph

Ball Speed - 121mph

Vert Angle 16.4 - Horizontal Angle .5Deg L

Spinrate 5145 RPM - LOW

Max Height 34 Yards

Draw/Fade (-)3 yards

 

First off, these were the first time I played the tp cb's and they felt a little hot off the face, normally I play 690.cb's and only hit my 7 iron about 178 carry. However, one thing I was worried about is the very low spinrate. Can somebody interpret these numbers and even help me understand what I'm doing wrong?

 

I'm 5'8", and about 160 lbs. I dont have long arms or anything, but I went to high school with a recent pga rookie of the year - so I played somewhat competitive amateur golf.

 

Thanks for anyone helping - ps i've uploaded videos of my swing on prior threads.

[crapula]

Angle of attack? Probably hit down too much.

[leric90]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1406433997' post='9793431']
Angle of attack? Probably hit down too much.
[/quote]

I'm actually not sure, should have gotten that data as well. Are you saying that I'm hitting down on it too much and not creating enough spin? Also it says my horizontal angle is .5d L, so I guess I'm coming over the top slightly.

[leric90]

bump

[jay65]

[quote name='leric90' timestamp='1406426028' post='9792777']
So after a session at the range, I decided to get trackman numbers for my 7 iron (tour preferred cb's) with KBS Tour stiff flex

Avg
Distance - 190 yards
Carry - 186
Clubhead Speed - 89mph
Ball Speed - 121mph
Vert Angle 16.4 - Horizontal Angle .5Deg L
Spinrate 5145 RPM - LOW
Max Height 34 Yards
Draw/Fade (-)3 yards

First off, these were the first time I played the tp cb's and they felt a little hot off the face, normally I play 690.cb's and only hit my 7 iron about 178 carry. However, one thing I was worried about is the very low spinrate. Can somebody interpret these numbers and even help me understand what I'm doing wrong?

I'm 5'8", and about 160 lbs. I dont have long arms or anything, but I went to high school with a recent pga rookie of the year - so I played somewhat competitive amateur golf.

Thanks for anyone helping - ps i've uploaded videos of my swing on prior threads.
[/quote]

I wouldn't be too worried about the spin rates to be honest. It can easily be addressed, as it's not that bad anyhow. Sure, for the purest, the spin rates and launch angles are a touch low, but these lower spin rates are typical of many irons nowadays, primarily because of the current obsession with distance, and the OEM's desire to achieve this is often to simply strengthen lofts. It's pretty irrelevant what the number says on the bottom nowadays, especially when comparing them to your current set up of the 690CB's. The lofts on the TM TP CB's will almost certainly be a good couple of degrees stronger than your 690 CB's which go some way to explain the numbers you posted. By simply having the TM Tour Preferred CB's a couple of Degrees weaker loft, it will raise the launch angle a touch and the spin rates too, within the parameters of acceptability.

Just for your info, I have to do the same with many of the newer Irons nowadays as my numbers are fairly similar to yours in terms of LA and spin, so specifying a couple of degrees weaker loft will sort out the very slight concerns you may have.

Hope that helps a bit.

[GeoffDickson]

[quote name='leric90' timestamp='1406434886' post='9793461']
[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1406433997' post='9793431']
Angle of attack? Probably hit down too much.
[/quote]

I'm actually not sure, should have gotten that data as well. Are you saying that I'm hitting down on it too much and not creating enough spin? Also it says my horizontal angle is .5d L, so I guess I'm coming over the top slightly.
[/quote]

Angle of attack will not affect spin rate....because dynamic loft tends to change when AoA increases.

[GeoffDickson]

Your swing speEd is about average by PGA standards....but your carry Is about 14yds greater...the lower spin rate would account for some of the discrepancies between PGA distances and your 690 distances.

A horizontal launch angle of 0.5* is very small...and doesn't necessarily mean you are OTT.

[leric90]

[quote name='GeoffDickson' timestamp='1406449898' post='9793863']
Your swing speEd is about average by PGA standards....but your carry Is about 14yds greater...the lower spin rate would account for some of the discrepancies between PGA distances and your 690 distances.

A horizontal launch angle of 0.5* is very small...and doesn't necessarily mean you are OTT.
[/quote]
[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1406449436' post='9793849']
[quote name='leric90' timestamp='1406426028' post='9792777']
So after a session at the range, I decided to get trackman numbers for my 7 iron (tour preferred cb's) with KBS Tour stiff flex

Avg
Distance - 190 yards
Carry - 186
Clubhead Speed - 89mph
Ball Speed - 121mph
Vert Angle 16.4 - Horizontal Angle .5Deg L
Spinrate 5145 RPM - LOW
Max Height 34 Yards
Draw/Fade (-)3 yards

First off, these were the first time I played the tp cb's and they felt a little hot off the face, normally I play 690.cb's and only hit my 7 iron about 178 carry. However, one thing I was worried about is the very low spinrate. Can somebody interpret these numbers and even help me understand what I'm doing wrong?

I'm 5'8", and about 160 lbs. I dont have long arms or anything, but I went to high school with a recent pga rookie of the year - so I played somewhat competitive amateur golf.

Thanks for anyone helping - ps i've uploaded videos of my swing on prior threads.
[/quote]

I wouldn't be too worried about the spin rates to be honest. It can easily be addressed, as it's not that bad anyhow. Sure, for the purest, the spin rates and launch angles are a touch low, but these lower spin rates are typical of many irons nowadays, primarily because of the current obsession with distance, and the OEM's desire to achieve this is often to simply strengthen lofts. It's pretty irrelevant what the number says on the bottom nowadays, especially when comparing them to your current set up of the 690CB's. The lofts on the TM TP CB's will almost certainly be a good couple of degrees stronger than your 690 CB's which go some way to explain the numbers you posted. By simply having the TM Tour Preferred CB's a couple of Degrees weaker loft, it will raise the launch angle a touch and the spin rates too, within the parameters of acceptability.

Just for your info, I have to do the same with many of the newer Irons nowadays as my numbers are fairly similar to yours in terms of LA and spin, so specifying a couple of degrees weaker loft will sort out the very slight concerns you may have.

Hope that helps a bit.
[/quote]

Wow thanks guys - I'm glad I don't have to worry about my spin rate. I think another thing is, I play s400 in my 690.cb's but the tp cb's had kbs tour which are a little bit lighter.

btw what does OTT mean?

[AlexCzervic]

Indoor or outdoor? What balls did you use?

AC

[leric90]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406461746' post='9794143'] Indoor or outdoor? What balls did you use? AC [/quote]

They were indoor, not range balls but not prov1 balls - from the feeling, they could be regular compression balls, maybe bridgestones or taylormades... nothing clicky

[AlexCzervic]

I'll make a leap and say that the KBS tip is too soft and/or the CG of those heads is too rearward for your release [size=6][b]IF[/b][/size] you desire more control/shaping/holding.

AC

[Fade to Black]

Alex, if the tip was too soft, wouldn't you expect to see higher spin rates?

[jay65]

[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1406489307' post='9796031']
Alex, if the tip was too soft, wouldn't you expect to see higher spin rates?
[/quote]

I would agree with that.

[leric90]

yeah like i was saying i went from dgs400 to kbs tour - stiff... so it definitely felt lighter. Also the clubhead just felt like a bigger sweetspot than the 690.cb's.

I'm not really sure, I got really good height on the ball tho and with the low spin, it had some good carry.... just really confused, and kind of a newb

[jay65]

[quote name='leric90' timestamp='1406491687' post='9796229']
yeah like i was saying i went from dgs400 to kbs tour - stiff... so it definitely felt lighter. Also the clubhead just felt like a bigger sweetspot than the 690.cb's.

I'm not really sure, I got really good height on the ball tho and with the low spin, it had some good carry.... just really confused, and kind of a newb
[/quote]

Well what may look high to you, may in fact not be for optimization purposes, particularly if hitting indoors. The first thing I would hope that you could do, is to try and find a good Pro with a Demo kit that you can go and hit outside, so that you can see the ball flight for yourself, but bear in mind the aforementioned point I made about perception. As I said in my first post though, the best way to increase LA and increase spin, is to simply increase loft. So specifying them 2* weak, would be the best way to go, if you so wanted to raise those parameters. But first things first. Try and go hit them outside in the first instance and go from there.

[AlexCzervic]

[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1406489559' post='9796049']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1406489307' post='9796031']
Alex, if the tip was too soft, wouldn't you expect to see higher spin rates?
[/quote]

I would agree with that.
[/quote]

Not if he is playing the ball back with a late release.

AC

[jay65]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406493129' post='9796335']
[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1406489559' post='9796049']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1406489307' post='9796031']
Alex, if the tip was too soft, wouldn't you expect to see higher spin rates?
[/quote]

I would agree with that.
[/quote]

Not if he is playing the ball back with a late release.

AC
[/quote]

Wherever the ball sits in his stance and whatever release he has, if he want to raise LA and spin rates, the best way is still to specify weaker lofts.

[AlexCzervic]

[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1406493600' post='9796383']
[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406493129' post='9796335']
[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1406489559' post='9796049']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1406489307' post='9796031']
Alex, if the tip was too soft, wouldn't you expect to see higher spin rates?
[/quote]

I would agree with that.
[/quote]

Not if he is playing the ball back with a late release.

AC
[/quote]

Wherever the ball sits in his stance and whatever release he has, if he want to raise LA and spin rates, the best way is still to specify weaker lofts.
[/quote]

I don't think [u]higher and shorter[/u] is of much interest.

AC

[leric90]

Yea I actually have the ball in the first quadrant from my inner heal - I'm actually working on my swing to hit a push hook like mcilroy, obviously not by these numbers tho

[leric90]

[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1406492403' post='9796281']
[quote name='leric90' timestamp='1406491687' post='9796229']
yeah like i was saying i went from dgs400 to kbs tour - stiff... so it definitely felt lighter. Also the clubhead just felt like a bigger sweetspot than the 690.cb's.

I'm not really sure, I got really good height on the ball tho and with the low spin, it had some good carry.... just really confused, and kind of a newb
[/quote]

Well what may look high to you, may in fact not be for optimization purposes, particularly if hitting indoors. The first thing I would hope that you could do, is to try and find a good Pro with a Demo kit that you can go and hit outside, so that you can see the ball flight for yourself, but bear in mind the aforementioned point I made about perception. As I said in my first post though, the best way to increase LA and increase spin, is to simply increase loft. So specifying them 2* weak, would be the best way to go, if you so wanted to raise those parameters. But first things first. Try and go hit them outside in the first instance and go from there.
[/quote]

Definitely will, and yeah that's definitely an option. I'm actually hoping my friend, certain tm tour pro can hook me up with a set of these sticks.

Normally my ball flight is very penetrating with anything, medium ball flight and a very flighted trajectory. I'm not really far or anything, because I swing the driver only around 105mph - something I need to work on, but with the shorter clubs, my compression is definitely a little better.

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406487808' post='9795893']
I'll make a leap and say that the KBS tip is too soft and/or the CG of those heads is too rearward for your release [size=6][b]IF[/b][/size] you desire more control/shaping/holding.

AC
[/quote]


You are all kinds of backwards on this going off what you are saying in your post.

Rearward CG will increase dynamic loft, but in terms of irons, it's almost non-existand anyway....

A tip that is too soft would make that even worse and would procude a higher launch angle and more spin. The lack of spin is what he is addressing.



To the OP:

I am assuming this was off of mats, natually, since it was indoors. I would not be too terribly concerned with what you are seeing as far as spin. Mats can change lost of numbers depending on the person/type of mat. See what exactly the on-course results are and go from there, or get a chance to hit them outside. Knowing what your ball descent angle and AoA was would be a bonus, but I would not lose sleep over it.

[leric90]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406522228' post='9799163']
I know exactly how all this works but I have to guess at what he's is doing without info. If this 135# kid is sweeping a 7 iron 90mph off his left heel then [b]I GUESSED WROng , [/b]iF he is snap releasing near his right heel then I guessed right and I know exactly what is going on and where his spin went.

AC
[/quote]

what do you mean snap releasing - do you mean like flipping the club? i don't mean any disrespect, just trying to figure out what your saying so I can improve!

[jay65]

[quote name='leric90' timestamp='1406525097' post='9799323']
[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406522228' post='9799163']
I know exactly how all this works but I have to guess at what he's is doing without info. If this 135# kid is sweeping a 7 iron 90mph off his left heel then [b]I GUESSED WROng , [/b]iF he is snap releasing near his right heel then I guessed right and I know exactly what is going on and where his spin went.

AC
[/quote]

what do you mean snap releasing - do you mean like flipping the club? i don't mean any disrespect, just trying to figure out what your saying so I can improve!
[/quote]

I wouldn't be getting too 'bogged down' with making this too complicated at the moment. Because, although we all have that desire to improved, it could easily get into an issue of swing dynamics rather than addressing the very slight issue with your ball flight, which was your original question. I fully accept that the way we swing the Club, and the dynamics involved have a direct influence on the ball flight we get. However, this wasn't the question really. I'm sure any fitter could easily get into Swing dynamics with the person he is fitting in 99% of cases, when he fits people, as he hasn't the time to do swing dynamic lessons. But that's not really why he is there. He isn't a swing coach, he is a fitter. And there are some assumptions being made about your swing on here without even seeing your swing. They may be right, but they may also be wrong. And without seeing your swing and breaking the components down, it's something I would prefer not to get into, because without seeing your swing, I feel that would be inappropriate.

At the end of the day, your numbers are pretty good on the surface, there may or may not be other swing issues going on, but I cannot speculate on that, hope you appreciate that. As I said, the numbers you posted are quite good on the surface, and as I also said, finding a good Pro with a demo kit and hitting them outside may help you a little more. If you still want to raise that LA and raise that spin rate a touch. You can go weaker loft, or change your swing. Either way may work, but I can't suggest the latter option without seeing your swing, that would be a little fool hardy.

Keep it simply, go play and enjoy.

[leric90]

Thanks so much! I will post a video of my recent swings with those numbers soon - on an outdoor range!

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406522228' post='9799163']
I know exactly how all this works but I have to guess at what he's is doing without info. If this 135# kid is sweeping a 7 iron 90mph off his left heel then [b]I GUESSED WROng , [/b]iF he is snap releasing near his right heel then I guessed right and I know exactly what is going on and where his spin went.

AC
[/quote]

Okay,

So ball position has what to do with head CG and tip frequency?

You are tap dancing between equipment and swing charactoristics....so which is it? It does not sound to me like you have very much figured out.

[GwrxMod]

Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks and fighting amongst yourselves.

[AlexCzervic]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1406553021' post='9800229']
[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406522228' post='9799163']
I know exactly how all this works but I have to guess at what he's is doing without info. If this 135# kid is sweeping a 7 iron 90mph off his left heel then [b]I GUESSED WROng , [/b]iF he is snap releasing near his right heel then I guessed right and I know exactly what is going on and where his spin went.

AC
[/quote]

Okay,

So ball position has what to do with head CG and tip frequency?

[color=#0000cd]No idea, what?[/color]

You are tap dancing between equipment and swing charactoristics....so which is it? It does not sound to me like you have very much figured out.
[/quote]

[color="#0000cd"]Release and cg influence shaft bend. Ball position influences vertical angle for non-hacks.[/color]

[color=#0000CD]Do you have a theory about his missing 1850 rpm's?[/color]

AC

[jay65]

I would prefer not to have theories, or at least not publish them without seeing somebodys' swing first, and seeing some delivery data. Until then, It would be nothing more than that, a theory. In this particular case, having a 'theory' could well end up screwing up a guys swing. Sure, it could help, but I wouldn't want to be responsible for it going the other way and playing on a guys mind during his swing. It may be something as simple as that he has a relatively shallow AoA but has his hands forward at impact which lowers the dynamic loft for example, who knows, it may not be that at all. But alot of these new irons nowadays are deliberately designed with lower lofts and made with design aspects that promote lower spin rates than would have been acceptable a few years ago. It's how the OEM's make claims of greater distance. 5145rpm with a 7 iron would not be a disaster to actually play with anyhow in my opinion. Even a change of ball can increase spin rates a little too, that together with a little more loft on his irons will sort the 'problem' without worrying the guy into an early grave. The rest is conjecture, and in this particular case is doing nothing more than worrying the poor guy.

[AlexCzervic]

Ok...........How do two fictional characters with the same equipment, vertical angle, speed and spin loft, generate different spin numbers.

AC

[jay65]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1406569391' post='9802273']
Ok...........How do two fictional characters with the same equipment, vertical angle, speed and spin loft, generate different spin numbers.

AC
[/quote]

Sorry, not relevant to the OP's topic.