the difference between tournament golf and recreational golf

[Dan Drake]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1407109589' post='9848753']
I like the magic circle concept. I've been doing that for years too. I've always laughed at the idea of "a lot of green to work with". If I have a lot of green, it means I've really missed the hell out of a shot. If I short side myself but have no green, I'm thinking easiest up and down ever because I'm likely 18 feet from the hole.

I played a round last year where I hit 7 greens and shot 67. I hardly missed an iron all day. Every up and down was from inside 25 feet and I was trying to make every single one of them. The pins were almost on the fringe on every hole.

That's another example of misleading stats. I've had all kinds of rounds where I hit 16 greens and hit it poorly. 40 footers all day. Couldn't shoot 67 on a round like that unless I putted like Crenshaw.

A lot of my buddies think I hit the ball a lot worse with my irons then I do. They say I only shoot under par all of the time because of my short game. Well, up and down is pretty much auto from 25 feet. When they miss the green, they're 40 yards away a lot of the time. The point is that not all missed greens are the same and more importantly, not all hit greens are good. I'd rather miss the green on the right side and have a simple pitch then hit the green on the wrong tier and have a 45 footer up a hill, over a ridge.

Great tournament players prepare well enough to know where it's ok to miss the green.
[/quote]

This is a huge post.

Getting really good at simple little short game shots is crucial to playing high level golf. Go to the practice green and find the easiest shot you can find and practice until you make more than you would 2 putt. Basically, be under par for however many balls you choose to hit. Not only will you get lethal at those shots, but your comfort level on harder shots will improve as well. Your ball striking will "improve" as well, for the reasons isaac mentioned, and your putting will see an improvement, although perhaps minimal, because you will get used to having a lot of tap ins for par as opposed to 4 foot knee knockers from having to lag 50 footers multiple times during the round.

[cardoustie]

For me tourney golf is all about confidence. And I feel you get that confidence from achieving success in events.

First year, of college golf, first alternate on the team as the 6th man, was awesome at shooting 76-82 in events, complete pressure gags
Last year, win first event of the season, stand on first tee thinking I am going to kick everyone's arse's again today. BIG difference

I haven't been very confident in events for 20 years now ! Mostly because of what IsaacBM says, I get one or two or three big events a year (to qualify for Am's and Mid-Am's and the Club C) and if you don't play well for 18 holes it is sayonara baby.

Even when I qualify for the provincial and national stuff, I throw away making the cut with 3 or bad holes per day. I firmly believe that I just need to play well in one big event, and I will get my tourney mojo back. And you have to realize at the big levels you have 50 guys that don't need to qualify and play 20 big tournaments per summer - they are battle tested

I can throw down 72's in practice rounds, but once the event starts I find ways of throwing it away. I have so many stories of being 1 under thru 10 (once in 30mph winds) and shooting 79 .... that it is sickening. I also have lots of stories of being 7 to 9 over after 6 holes, and coming in with a 75 once I stopped giving a crap

Hard course conditions don't bother me. It is the nervous, tentative, steer job swings that lead to disasters at times.

[Mcaesq]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1407133984' post='9851297']
Wow! I wish some of the guys that played in the PGA Tour Canada event in Calgary would come on here and post.

I know Ron has talked about 280 being the magic number. As in, if you can regularly shoot 280 in tournaments, then you have a good starting point to give professional golf a go.

Well today, 280 at Sirocco in Calgary finished tied for 48th place which was good for a check of about $900

I've played that course 50 times in the past 5 years and I have no idea of how they are shooting those scores. It's rated 74.4/141 slope and is 7200 yards.

Riley Flemming was 3 over through 7 holes today. What did he shoot?? 64!! He went 11 under for the last 11 holes!

Any of you guys from Calgary know what I'm talking about. It was blowing 15-20 miles per hour in Calgary the past 2 days. The greens were baked out and rolling 12.5 on the stimp. And they are crazy undulating at this course.

I would really like to get into the heads of some of these guys.

Someone also shot 59 on day 2. This guy went 29,30,31 for 3 straight nines. WTF??!!

When I was playing, the scores were not like this. A lot has changed in the past 15 years in professional golf. It's complete pedal to the metal on the minis now. In the old days, shooting 1 under per day would get you paid in most events and 3-4 under per day could contend. Now it's 2 under per day to make the cut and 6 under per day to contend.

It would drive me nuts to shoot 10 under and not crack the top 40!

20 under the course rating for 4 days got you a tie for 40th and a net loss of about $500 for the week... Something to mull over if you're planning on giving the pipe dream a go....
[/quote]

Funny you mention that, my dad mentioned something similar the other day. He played golf for Illinois in the early 80s, and he said the goal back then was to just go out and beat "old man par" and that you did well just to go out and shoot 2 or 3 under. Now, 2-3 under a day is nothing.

I had a really good 9 (for me) the other day: shot 34 on a 9 playing about 3500, and this old guy I was playing with asked if I thought about going pro. I involuntarily laughed. I've played with guys who couldn't cut it on the lower level tours and my best day would make them throw their clubs in a lake. I just don't think people understand the magnitude of difference between your average scratch/low single, a competitive tournament player, and a legit professional golfer.

[quote name='Dan Drake' timestamp='1407261131' post='9863289']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1407109589' post='9848753']
I like the magic circle concept. I've been doing that for years too. I've always laughed at the idea of "a lot of green to work with". If I have a lot of green, it means I've really missed the hell out of a shot. If I short side myself but have no green, I'm thinking easiest up and down ever because I'm likely 18 feet from the hole.

I played a round last year where I hit 7 greens and shot 67. I hardly missed an iron all day. Every up and down was from inside 25 feet and I was trying to make every single one of them. The pins were almost on the fringe on every hole.

That's another example of misleading stats. I've had all kinds of rounds where I hit 16 greens and hit it poorly. 40 footers all day. Couldn't shoot 67 on a round like that unless I putted like Crenshaw.

A lot of my buddies think I hit the ball a lot worse with my irons then I do. They say I only shoot under par all of the time because of my short game. Well, up and down is pretty much auto from 25 feet. When they miss the green, they're 40 yards away a lot of the time. The point is that not all missed greens are the same and more importantly, not all hit greens are good. I'd rather miss the green on the right side and have a simple pitch then hit the green on the wrong tier and have a 45 footer up a hill, over a ridge.

Great tournament players prepare well enough to know where it's ok to miss the green.
[/quote]
Getting really good at simple little short game shots is crucial to playing high level golf.
[/quote]
And this more than anything. I thought I had a great short game until I played a few rounds with LPGA players. They would get up and down from everywhere and regularly buzzed the edge or chipped in. It was absurd.

[Hoot151]

The average person doesn't understand how good an elite performer is any profession, whether it's music, golf, or any other sport. Golf is not special in that regard.

[Aviador Naval]

[quote name='Mcaesq' timestamp='1407263185' post='9863551']
And this more than anything. I thought I had a great short game until I played a few rounds with LPGA players. They would get up and down from everywhere and regularly buzzed the edge or chipped in. It was absurd.
[/quote]

Funny you mention this...

I spent two full days at the Kingsmill Championship this year and came away with the opposite reaction (soft of...). I was very surprised how pedestrian the chipping and pitching appeared from even solid lies. Clearly they weren't laying sod over the ball but I saw very few that threatened the cup or resulted in non-chalant brush ins.

On the other hand, the utter regularity with which they poured in the resulting 5 to 8 foot putts was astonishing. They didn't seem the least bit disappointed when a simple 25 yd chip ended up 6 feet from the cup. They just walked up and confidently drilled it into the center of the cup.

My take-away based on observation that weekend was that the key to scrambling was rock solid putting in the 4' - 8' range rather than leaving the ball inside of 3 feet when chipping or pitching.

[avrag]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1407263691' post='9863619']
The average person doesn't understand how good an elite performer is any profession, whether it's music, golf, or any other sport. Golf is not special in that regard.
[/quote]

This is where I have to quote myself from about 15 months ago:

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1367093182' post='6928293']

I was something like a "club champ" in tennis in my youth. At 14, I did not know anybody in my area who could beat me more often than I could beat him. My instructor made me enter in a national junior tournament. First round was ok, I won, although I felt that the opponent was better than anybody I had ever played against. Second round, I lost in straight sets and I knew that no matter how hard I practiced, I would never win against this player, I would probably never even have a sniff of winning more than two games per set against him. In the next round, this guy lost to another guy without a sliver of a chance. This other guy then lost in the final. He did not have any chance at all against a scrawny, thin, pale, blond boy who was 1 1/2 to two years younger than most other participants. This boy's name was Thomas Muster and he later became World No 1 for a short time. And mind you, everybody always thought that he was "not talented at all, just a hard worker". I can't even imagine how the "talented" guys like Sampras or Becker or Agassi played when they were 13 or 14.
[/quote]

[cardoustie]

[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1407261578' post='9863341']
For me tourney golf is all about confidence. And I feel you get that confidence from achieving success in events.

First year, of college golf, first alternate on the team as the 6th man, was awesome at shooting 76-82 in events, complete pressure gags
Last year, win first event of the season, stand on first tee thinking I am going to kick everyone's arse's again today. BIG difference

I haven't been very confident in events for 20 years now ! Mostly because of what IsaacBM says, I get one or two or three big events a year (to qualify for Am's and Mid-Am's and the Club C) and if you don't play well for 18 holes it is sayonara baby.

Even when I qualify for the provincial and national stuff, I throw away making the cut with 3 or bad holes per day. I firmly believe that I just need to play well in one big event, and I will get my tourney mojo back. And you have to realize at the big levels you have 50 guys that don't need to qualify and play 20 big tournaments per summer - they are battle tested

I can throw down 72's in practice rounds, but once the event starts I find ways of throwing it away. I have so many stories of being 1 under thru 10 (once in 30mph winds) and shooting 79 .... that it is sickening. I also have lots of stories of being 7 to 9 over after 6 holes, and coming in with a 75 once I stopped giving a crap

Hard course conditions don't bother me. It is the nervous, tentative, steer job swings that lead to disasters at times.
[/quote]

Let me add, to further back up Isaac that I have played with many top level am's, tour players, seniors, etc. I KNOW how good they are .. it is mindblowing. Up and downs from garbage cans, birdies on every par 5, 3 iron to 15 feet from 230 etc etc. Seem to hit it pretty good, "yah, I left some out there with my 66" .... groooooooan. Meanwhile, I went balls to the wall to shoot 73.

[spider]

This is a great topic with so many gems in here I can't believe. Thx to all who posted. However, it has caused me to skip my club championship. I say that sort of in jest. My current fear to compete or trust my game and knowing that at a 7.2 index that will not cut it to win in a scratch event made me skip it the qualifying rounds this past weekend.

Anyway not much for me to add to this discussion. Thanks and keep posting it is very helpful to read how pros and good ams deal with competing.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='Mcaesq' timestamp='1407263185' post='9863551']
I just don't think people understand the magnitude of difference between your average scratch/low single, a competitive tournament player, and a legit professional golfer.
[/quote]THIS IS THE MOST ACCURATE STATEMENT IN THIS THREAD & ONE OF THE GREATEST UNDERSTATEMENTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME, ON EITHER SIDE OF THE POND!!

And no, I'm not yelling, I just got excited and forgot to take the caps off

Welcome to the board MC!!

Great overall post, though I had to highlight this-

Well, I wish ya the best MC, and thanks for droppin in

Fairways & Greens My friend,
Richard

[QMany]

[quote name='spider' timestamp='1407270426' post='9864547']
My current fear to compete or trust my game and knowing that at a 7.2 index that will not cut it to win in a scratch event made me skip it the qualifying rounds this past weekend.
[/quote]
You have to try, you will never know how you stack up and how to improve if you don't. Tournament golf is the biggest spotlight showing holes in your game, but regular golf will be dull after.

[ej002]

I got my a** handed to me on a dirty platter today. Quesey stomach, swing stepped out on me - misses I never had before... Hitting the ball 15 yards longer than normal. But I fought the good battle. Shortgame was light out. But in the end - pure embarrassment. I am mentally exhausted - and was totally unprepared - defeated any way you look at it. But in my defense - it was only my 16th round of the year. But still - ouch.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='spider' timestamp='1407270426' post='9864547']
This is a great topic with so many gems in here I can't believe. Thx to all who posted. However, it has caused me to skip my club championship. I say that sort of in jest. My current fear to compete or trust my game and knowing that at a 7.2 index that will not cut it to win in a scratch event made me skip it the qualifying rounds this past weekend.

Anyway not much for me to add to this discussion. Thanks and keep posting it is very helpful to read how pros and good ams deal with competing.
[/quote]Bro, You gotta play!!

In 1994, I won my fourth club championship and less than two weeks later got my *ss handed to me by a future Walker Cupper, 8&7.

Worst beating I've ever takin in ANY sport that I've ever played.

It got so bad that I was lookin at him from across the fairway on #9 thinkin, "Yea, but if we were on a football field, I'd own his *ss," LMAO

I kid you not.

300-350 people walking and following us and watching me get humiliated.

And you want to know the p*sser?

The front nine I had 7 pars to his 6 birdies.

Yep, a 29.

I lost ten with a par to his eagle and I bogied 11 to his par.

I remember every single hole.

You tend to remember the worst beatings

My point is, you gotta play Bro!!

Even if you get your *ss kicked, seriously, who cares?

You'll get over it, trust me.

You just show up at the next tournament and plant the tee.

Not to throw a cliche out, though cliches are nothing more than truisms that have withstood the test of time, and this one is, the only way to get past the fear is to confront it.

Show up and plant the tee.

As a 7, are ya gonna win the Championship flight?

Maybe not, but who gives a s***?

You're the dog goin in, no one expects you to do anything, so there's no pressure.

You just play, no expectations, and next thing ya know, you're throwing some darts and sinkin a few putts.

And the chips start fallin your way

Believe me, you're not facing Isaac, Ron or Jay(Fireblade) at your club.

I've seen first hand +3 club players wilt like a flower on a 120* summer day.

That's how I got that trophy in my avatar.

No way in hell that I should have won it, though match play has a way of doin funny things to people.

Did I get lucky?

LOL, you bet your *ss that I did!

But I had to show up.

Win or lose, you gotta show up.

The best to you Spider!!

Fairways & Greens My Friend,
Richard

[spider]

Good stuff Forged and Q. Just got gun shy.

Last tourney I played was low handi with high random pairing. First tee is 3 wood for me I cold topped it 50 yards. Tee is 25 feet raised so pretty horrible. That is not something I can recall ever doing even when I started....a hook or block yes but never top the ball. Everyone else in the group hit their driver in the fairway. Anyway my partner looked at me like I shot his dog. Maybe he didn't but I felt that way. 430 yard par 4 water in play off tee 290 out and down the left side of the approach fairway. I laid up..hit the green sank the put for par. Everyone else went to !@#$ with no lower than a 6 between them.

Anyway I just didn't like the way i reacted to that feeling on the first tee and realized my game is smoke and mirrors right now.

You are both right I should have just tried the two day stroke play qualifying rounds to get to match play. Just to get the feeling for next time. I'm usually a better athlete in organized competitions because it allows me to have an excuse to be competitive. Even in golf I don't compete against the others I'm playing. Always compete against the course not some dollar skin I might win. I would think I'd be more into the tourney for golf since I am better playing than on the range.

You guys are inspiring me

[cardoustie]

Spider, I hear you

Would you believe the uni tourney I won was with a hungover cold top on the first? Had to make a 20 footer for bogey!

Last weekend .. For fun I played in our hdcp club c as a 3 capper, low gross for two days with no chance of winning ... but still 36 competitive holes. Ironically, on 10, our diabolical 380 yard 2 ranked hole, I topped a 3 wood to 210 out ... Uphill. I have never had that shot in 10 years as a member. I was perplexed but lazered a 4h to 8 feet. ....

I laughed and then embraced the challenge ... Remember that.

How can you succeed if you don't even give it a whirl.

Also, there is a good quote in The Rock from Sean Connery about the prom queen

[larrybud]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1406906322' post='9832543']

I've been reinstated as an amateur and my biggest observation is that players are constantly assuming that they should be shooting a lot lower then they do. To me however, I feel that if you're a 2, you should be shooting about 4-6 over the course rating in a tournament and that's if you have a little experience.
[/quote]

I'm a little late to the discussion, so this may have already been covered, but since handicap is based on your potential, I would say a 2 index is already shooting 4-6 over the course rating in casual rounds on average. Factor in tournament pressure, course setup, it doesn't surprise me to see scoring the way we do in am tournaments, especially for those relatively inexperienced in tournament golf.

[raduray]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1406938412' post='9836911']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1406926557' post='9835521']
There's little doubt that stuff like confidence is important, I just think the confidence comes from knowing you can do what needs to be done.

Imagine having to give a presentation on a topic to a potential client. What's more important: having the content down or having the confidence to deliver the presentation? Well both are, but if you are clueless and unprepared with the content, no amount of confidence is going to make the presentation work. You might be confident, but you will just sound like an overconfident clown with nothing worthwhile to say.

I think it's similar when comparing the physical and mental parts of golf. Sure, you'd love to be strong mentally, but if you can't hit the ball well enough, who cares? Also, if you know you can't hit the shots based on your non tourney rounds, why would you ever have confidence in yourself at the tourney?

I will also admit that at the very highest levels of golf, the stuff you guys are discussing is more important relatively, because everyone's physical skills are closer and more refined. But if we are talking about amateur events, most peoples principle problem is going to be a way too steep move that is inherently inconsistent. No amount of confidence or mental prep can overcome inherent inconsistencies that poor swing mechanics can
introduce
[/quote]

I think the point I'm trying to make that isn't getting across to you is that it's proven that at all levels, all players play worse in tournaments. Yes a player needs to improve their swing to get from a 13 to an 11 but the point is why can't that person stay within their own current proven range in tournaments when they can do it casually.

A guy that averages 77-84 might be a 8 handicap. His current swing produces that 7 shot range day in and day out. That's where he's at. I'm saying what is it that makes his range suddenly go from 82-95 in tournaments? He's already a proven 8. Why can't he maintain that range?

Obviously to get to a lower range of say 72-79 he'd need to improve his physical technique(among other things) but why can't he keep his current range in tournaments.

Seans post above is a good example of some reasons....

And for the record, I'm not saying "you're wrong and you must agree with me." I like a good debate and exchange of ideas.

If I knew all the answers I'd be out there on tour and not running a construction business! LOL!
[/quote]

For the same reason that you can make a three foot putt backhanded after you're out of a hole, but can't sink the same putt when it counts. It's the monster in your head.

[isaacbm]

Here's a story that I was a part of this past winter in a tournament. I realize I may be looked at as a bit of an a$$ but I'll relate it anyway because theres a good message in it.

I was playing with a 15 year old junior on the final day of a 3 round tourney. I wasn't in contention but I did finish just out of the top 10 so I was still trying to focus and do my absolute best. Well this kid has a melt down out there. He'd shot 41 or so on the front so he was back near 35th place. Now for me, if i'm that far out of it, I'm pretty much just trying to stay out of the way of the guys that might still be in the hunt.

This is what happened. He misses a putt on one hole and does the whole:" come on!!!! How can that break right?!!" Then he quick hits the tap in and misses and then it gets bad. He throws his putted on the ground on my line and walks off to the side of the green and sits down with his head between his hands. His ball is still sitting on the lip and his putter is still on my line. I look over at his mom who is following us and she is not the least bit embarrassed by his behavior. So I make a throat clearing noise and nothing. He's sitting there still for about 45 seconds now.

So I say:" Hey!! Lets go here! There's other people to play still." He just glares at me. So I grab his putter and toss it towards him lightly and go to mark his ball. Now he gets up and starts coming at me. The other guy in my group gets between us and I just start laughing out loud. I say " what are you going to do? start a fight with a 40 year old man? Does that make a lot of sense to you buddy?" After telling me "you're not my f ing buddy", He remarks his ball, throws my coin in the pond, makes his putt and storms off to the next tee. I just started laughing. So did the other guy. Not his mom though. She was mad at me!

So no one says anything for the last few holes and we get in to the scorers tent and he starts telling the scorer how I mistreated him. Then he started telling the Head pro about his terrible round shot by shot.

The head pro sees the look on my face and has seen this kids act before. He proceeds to say the best words of wisdom I'd heard in years.

"You know what kid? For every 100 people you tell the details of your 83, 90 of them don't give a sh!t and the other 10 wish you shot 84!"

That stopped him dead in his tracks and he just wondered away.


I'm not relating all of this to make fun of a young player. But there is a lot to be learned from this. I don't care how crazy it gets for you out there, you can't let your garbage affect the other players in you group. Take your medicine like a man. And for God's sake, don't take yourself too seriously out there. Like the head pro said, no one is really all that focused on you. They're too busy doing their own thing and battling their own demons. The best players to have in my group are not necessarily the guys that shoot the best. They're the guys that are easy going, know the rules, know the etiquette, and are generally the sort of person that would be fun to have a beer with afterwards.

Strive to be one of those guys and tournament golf will be a lot more fun.

Our ego makes us think that all anyone is thinking about is us. Trust me, no one thinks less of you or more of you. And if you find someone that truly judges you by the score you shoot and not the person you are, lose them as fast as you can.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1407300638' post='9868085']
Here's a story that I was a part of this past winter in a tournament. I realize I may be looked at as a bit of an a$$ but I'll relate it anyway because theres a good message in it.

I was playing with a 15 year old junior on the final day of a 3 round tourney. I wasn't in contention but I did finish just out of the top 10 so I was still trying to focus and do my absolute best. Well this kid has a melt down out there. He'd shot 41 or so on the front so he was back near 35th place. Now for me, if i'm that far out of it, I'm pretty much just trying to stay out of the way of the guys that might still be in the hunt.

This is what happened. He misses a putt on one hole and does the whole:" come on!!!! How can that break right?!!" Then he quick hits the tap in and misses and then it gets bad. He throws his putted on the ground on my line and walks off to the side of the green and sits down with his head between his hands. His ball is still sitting on the lip and his putter is still on my line. I look over at his mom who is following us and she is not the least bit embarrassed by his behavior. So I make a throat clearing noise and nothing. He's sitting there still for about 45 seconds now.

So I say:" Hey!! Lets go here! There's other people to play still." He just glares at me. So I grab his putter and toss it towards him lightly and go to mark his ball. Now he gets up and starts coming at me. The other guy in my group gets between us and I just start laughing out loud. I say " what are you going to do? start a fight with a 40 year old man? Does that make a lot of sense to you buddy?" After telling me "you're not my f ing buddy", He remarks his ball, throws my coin in the pond, makes his putt and storms off to the next tee. I just started laughing. So did the other guy. Not his mom though. She was mad at me!

So no one says anything for the last few holes and we get in to the scorers tent and he starts telling the scorer how I mistreated him. Then he started telling the Head pro about his terrible round shot by shot.

The head pro sees the look on my face and has seen this kids act before. He proceeds to say the best words of wisdom I'd heard in years.

"You know what kid? For every 100 people you tell the details of your 83, 90 of them don't give a sh!t and the other 10 wish you shot 84!"

That stopped him dead in his tracks and he just wondered away.


I'm not relating all of this to make fun of a young player. But there is a lot to be learned from this. I don't care how crazy it gets for you out there, you can't let your garbage affect the other players in you group. Take your medicine like a man. And for God's sake, don't take yourself too seriously out there. Like the head pro said, no one is really all that focused on you. They're too busy doing their own thing and battling their own demons. The best players to have in my group are not necessarily the guys that shoot the best. They're the guys that are easy going, know the rules, know the etiquette, and are generally the sort of person that would be fun to have a beer with afterwards.

Strive to be one of those guys and tournament golf will be a lot more fun.

Our ego makes us think that all anyone is thinking about is us. Trust me, no one thinks less of you or more of you. And if you find someone that truly judges you by the score you shoot and not the person you are, lose them as fast as you can.
[/quote]An *ss?

You handled yourself like a Gentleman!

You handled yourself like a Pro!!

The kid?

As I've said all over this board-

The 4M+ who have left this game?

Not nearly enough, and not nearly fast enough!!

It's the trash that you played with, talent level aside, that have missed the whole foundation on which this game was founded-

Etiquette & Sportsmanship-

Again, regarding the kid, guaranteed, before he hits 21yo, if he continues in the game, he's going to get his *ss handed to him, and not on the score card-

There will be another kid, who does not handle themselves like a Gentleman and a Pro, who will deliver the message that this piece of trash deserves!

Now that story?

I'd pay to read that in the board!!

Very well played Isaac!

Take care my Friend,
Richard

**Later Ed: 08/06/14, 11:15AM-> LMAO, Oh Isaac, I just about blew my morning jello out of my nose, LMAO

I missed the part about this little b**** "charging" you, LMAO.

I understand that obviously because of the current laws, you could do nothing but "defend" yourself if necessary.

I don't care what his size, however a little 15yo golfer charging anyone is comical, LMAO.

This goes to something that I believe should be looked at, though since I have a pseudo-image to maintain( ) at my club, I can't really talk about this except with close friends, and that is with regards to all of this talk of trying to "expand" the game with foot golf, 15" holes, etc.

I really believe that "contact" golf has a place in the game.

Discreetly, and with discretion, though since it seems that many have left the gutters in favor of the fairways and ranges and practice tees across this great land, it's time has come.

Now before someone with an agenda chirps in about elitism, bla, bla, bla, let me say that socio-economic level, academic level, professional status or handicap level has absolutely nothing to do with whom I am speaking. And I don't care if ya roll the ball and take 5'ers all day. Cuz if you do, we're not going to be playing each other, so it's no biggie.

I am speaking of behavior, etiquette and how one carries themselves.

I can live with you bending rules as long as you play only for s**** & giggles with your Buds.

What I can't live with is you, regardless of your age, acting like this trash from Isaac's story or acting like you're at a football tail gate party.

If these jerk-offs are what the game needs to sustain itself, count me out.

I can go to my bar and sit and watch *ssholes & rude clowns all nite, and they pay me for the privilege of me tolerating them for a while

I don't have to pay MY money to spend 4-5 hours with them.

But back to contact golf-

#1, you get two "contacts" per nine, unless a FC commits over three "fouls," such as cheating or just acting like a jerk-off. for these four "contacts," you must first yell "contact," much as your yell "fore," so as to alert him of the impending hit. And it must be from the front, so he can see you coming. If he runs or avoids the contact, then your playing partners or FC's may join you, much like our old "Oklahoma" drills(Bull in the Ring). He may be "contacted" blind side in this format, though for the regular four contacts, no rope or clothes line hits, you must launch with your body. If he refuses, automatic DQ, and with the DQ comes an automatic drug test for said jerk-off, with results posted on the board, whether it be a public venue or private club, and regardless of outcome, positive or negative. I want his wife, significant other, mother, etc., to walk by with her friends, family and hopefully jerk-off and have him chem profile up there for all to see

#2, if said player does not modify his behavior, and you have used your allotment of 4 "contacts," you may call "Game On" and all this means is from that point in the round until he either doesn't get up or ya hole out on 18, you can "contact" him at your leisure, with no other voice warnings, infraction or not. Now, where the "contacts" change here is that #1, after the first "GO" warning, you may contact him repeatedly and the only rule is that he must be at least to his knees before you "re-contact." #2, ropes and clothes-lines are permitted, and between you and I, as when I last played these were psuedo-legal if you at least launched with your body, I would highly recommend this style of "contact."

Extremely effective!!

Also, regarding tactical advice, since no warning is needed for the "GO" contacts, say the infraction occurs on #15 FW, I would suggest ignoring it, and even speaking in a contrite, friendly manner to said jerk-off, and then, when walking off of #16, green, let him go first, say at about 12-15', and when he walks beside the green side bunker, sprint from behind, and BOOM BABY, knock his a** into the bunker.

Have you ever tried to remove sand from the inside of your shirt on a 90+* day?

Oh yea, he loses honors if he should have them!

Now, if you are smaller than your FC or this is not really in your personality, no problem, you may designate a "contacter" from your playing partners.

I believe that this will not only let those of us that are a tad tightly wired to vent in an acceptable manner, it will serve en even better purpose of "thinning the herd."

Please accept my apologies for deviating from the thread topic, however, #1, I took my meds about 30 minutes ago so they're in full throttle and #2, I am much more creative after I take them, though my inhibitions do tend to drop

Again Isaac, you handled yourself like the Pro that your were.

Very well played Bro!!

Fairways, Greens & Contact 4ever,
Richard

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1407300638' post='9868085']
Here's a story that I was a part of this past winter in a tournament. I realize I may be looked at as a bit of an a$$ but I'll relate it anyway because theres a good message in it.

I was playing with a 15 year old junior on the final day of a 3 round tourney. I wasn't in contention but I did finish just out of the top 10 so I was still trying to focus and do my absolute best. Well this kid has a melt down out there. He'd shot 41 or so on the front so he was back near 35th place. Now for me, if i'm that far out of it, I'm pretty much just trying to stay out of the way of the guys that might still be in the hunt.

This is what happened. He misses a putt on one hole and does the whole:" come on!!!! How can that break right?!!" Then he quick hits the tap in and misses and then it gets bad. He throws his putted on the ground on my line and walks off to the side of the green and sits down with his head between his hands. His ball is still sitting on the lip and his putter is still on my line. I look over at his mom who is following us and she is not the least bit embarrassed by his behavior. So I make a throat clearing noise and nothing. He's sitting there still for about 45 seconds now.

So I say:" Hey!! Lets go here! There's other people to play still." He just glares at me. So I grab his putter and toss it towards him lightly and go to mark his ball. Now he gets up and starts coming at me. The other guy in my group gets between us and I just start laughing out loud. I say " what are you going to do? start a fight with a 40 year old man? Does that make a lot of sense to you buddy?" After telling me "you're not my f ing buddy", He remarks his ball, throws my coin in the pond, makes his putt and storms off to the next tee. I just started laughing. So did the other guy. Not his mom though. She was mad at me!

So no one says anything for the last few holes and we get in to the scorers tent and he starts telling the scorer how I mistreated him. Then he started telling the Head pro about his terrible round shot by shot.

The head pro sees the look on my face and has seen this kids act before. He proceeds to say the best words of wisdom I'd heard in years.

"You know what kid? For every 100 people you tell the details of your 83, 90 of them don't give a sh!t and the other 10 wish you shot 84!"

That stopped him dead in his tracks and he just wondered away.


I'm not relating all of this to make fun of a young player. But there is a lot to be learned from this. I don't care how crazy it gets for you out there, you can't let your garbage affect the other players in you group. Take your medicine like a man. And for God's sake, don't take yourself too seriously out there. Like the head pro said, no one is really all that focused on you. They're too busy doing their own thing and battling their own demons. The best players to have in my group are not necessarily the guys that shoot the best. They're the guys that are easy going, know the rules, know the etiquette, and are generally the sort of person that would be fun to have a beer with afterwards.

Strive to be one of those guys and tournament golf will be a lot more fun.

Our ego makes us think that all anyone is thinking about is us. Trust me, no one thinks less of you or more of you. And if you find someone that truly judges you by the score you shoot and not the person you are, lose them as fast as you can.
[/quote]

That's why I just don't see the point in playing tournaments anymore really. Those kids are 90 % of the field in any event honestly. It sucks when you play in events where there are a lot of 0 - +2 players, because that's the range where people have some game, but obviously nowhere near really good and they think they're the sh*t. When someone goes wrong, they b*tch up a storm and it's just a giant pain. I just don't play enough to get upset about playing bad myself, let alone deal with someone else getting upset about playing bad.

Also huge lol @ junior going to charge you.

[jdailey03]

[quote name='spider' timestamp='1407270426' post='9864547']
This is a great topic with so many gems in here I can't believe. Thx to all who posted. However, it has caused me to skip my club championship. I say that sort of in jest. My current fear to compete or trust my game and knowing that at a 7.2 index that will not cut it to win in a scratch event made me skip it the qualifying rounds this past weekend.

Anyway not much for me to add to this discussion. Thanks and keep posting it is very helpful to read how pros and good ams deal with competing.
[/quote]

I'm with the other fellas on this one. I definitely feel like you should play. The club championship is always a great tournament. All it takes is a couple good rounds and you never know what could happen. Plus it's fun to compete against friends and/or peers. I really enjoyed running them and watching the guys and gals go out and play. The more people that play, the better the event as well.
It's also something I've never been able to be a part of, and since I'm no longer working as a club pro, I really want to participate in one. But the pro at my club I'm a member now (who I'm very good friends with) politely asked me to not participate in theirs because he knows it would hurt the participation. It's a bummer, but I totally respect and understand that. So please go out and play and compete, if not for you, do it for me!!! Lol.

[TheCityGame]

My stories concern club tournament golf. Stuff with 60 golfers, flighted, club-championships, that kind of thing, maybe even member-guests (my member guest used to have a big skins pool, so every birdie putt was conceivably a $200-$400 putt.)

[b]Main thing is that you just need to play in more of them[/b]. Learn how to sleep at night. Learn how to warm up. Learn how to REMEMBER to do your pre-shot routine on hole 1. Can't tell you how many times I hit a crappy approach on hole 1 and then said to myself, "why didn't you get behind that ball and pick a line like you ALWAYS DO?"

[b]Odd things happen:[/b] We get a lecture from the pro every year on the first tee box during the first tournament about slow play. It means nothing to me now; he just has to feel like he's doing his job. But, what happens the first year I join the club and I get out there and just get that lecture? It's all I can think of the first 4 holes, hurrying. There's a lot of activity around the first tee in tournaments. You need to get used to it.

[b]Ego: [/b]This is sort of a chicken & egg issue, but I never felt relaxed in a tournament until I finally played well in one of them. I wanted the guys in the club to think I had game, that I didn't have a vanity cap. Once I won a closest to pin, or took a third, I finally felt like I could just go golf.

[b]Never forget you're playing against the field: [/b]Yeah, you need to play your game, but you're also playing against the field. That impossible pin position? It's the same for everyone. The wind? Same for everyone. I'm not saying focus on other player's game, but if you start thinking the course is playing tough and it's killing your score, just remember it's relative.

[b]Don't think that there are sleeping giants out there: [/b]Kind of related to the last issue, but I remember my first two-day club tournament -- I tripled hole 1 and a guy I was matched with in handicap birdied it. I was like, "oh, man, what did I get myself in to? This guy is a bagger who is going to shoot par. I'm dead." There were 35 holes left!!!! I think I made up a few of the strokes by the end of 9 holes, and had him by a couple after 18. You're not playing pros. Everyone is going to have bad stretches. Some guys come apart on the back. Some guys miss short putts. Some guys have their bad habits show up when they feel they're playing well. Everyone else has the same mental issues we're talking about in this thread. [b]Just keep grinding. [/b]


[b]Most of all, you just gotta play. [/b]Your body is going to react differently when there's pressure on. Like others have said, all of a sudden, you can't feel the green speed, or you can't remember what you like to look at when you're chipping. It's crazy. You need to play so that that stuff becomes more routine, but you also need to know how to hit the shot when you feel like that. Mostly, my tournaments are routine for me these days, but when it gets to club championship, or another big tournament, those feelings will come back. You're not just thinking, "hit a good chip". You're thinking, "I need to get up and down for the halve because he's at 20 feet for bird".

[b]One big thing, golf-wise[/b]: So, all of that is just kind of mental stuff and that's really where the difference lies between a round with your buds and a tournament, but there's one big thing, golf-wise. . .when you're playing with your buds: [b]play it down, and putt 'em out. [/b]It's kind of easy to identify the guys who roll 'em in the fairway when they play on the weekends -- they're usually complaining about their lie on the first hole. It's REALLY easy to see the guys who take every 2 footer. These are the guys who never shoot within 5 of their handicap in any tournament.

[avrag]

[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1407333376' post='9869757']
Your body is going to react differently when there's pressure on.
[/quote]

It is always amazing for me, how thirsty I can get, when I am on the 15th hole or so and have played really well up until then. Usually, I had about 2 litres of water and two or three isotonic drinks, yet when I know that I am net 3 or 4 under par at that point, it feels like I have been hiking in the desert for 3 hrs without a drop of fluid.

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='spider' timestamp='1407270426' post='9864547']
This is a great topic with so many gems in here I can't believe. Thx to all who posted. However, it has caused me to skip my club championship. I say that sort of in jest. My current fear to compete or trust my game and knowing that at a 7.2 index that will not cut it to win in a scratch event made me skip it the qualifying rounds this past weekend.

Anyway not much for me to add to this discussion. Thanks and keep posting it is very helpful to read how pros and good ams deal with competing.
[/quote]As others have said, you should have played. When you do get your handicap down lower, you're going to be glad you got the experience.

I mean. . .if it's $200 to play, and you don't feel like tossing that away on a tournament you're unlikely to win, fine. But, part of the benefit of getting down to single digits is playing in the championship flight in the club championship (FTR, our CC weekend. . .we have flights, and they're net, but the Championship flight is gross and the winner is the official club champ).

Plan on playing next year. It's also very instructive, even if you've played a lot of golf to play a match against really good players.

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1407265377' post='9863859']
[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1407263691' post='9863619']
The average person doesn't understand how good an elite performer is any profession, whether it's music, golf, or any other sport. Golf is not special in that regard.
[/quote]

This is where I have to quote myself from about 15 months ago:

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1367093182' post='6928293']
I was something like a "club champ" in tennis in my youth. At 14, I did not know anybody in my area who could beat me more often than I could beat him. My instructor made me enter in a national junior tournament. First round was ok, I won, although I felt that the opponent was better than anybody I had ever played against. Second round, I lost in straight sets and I knew that no matter how hard I practiced, I would never win against this player, I would probably never even have a sniff of winning more than two games per set against him. In the next round, this guy lost to another guy without a sliver of a chance. This other guy then lost in the final. He did not have any chance at all against a scrawny, thin, pale, blond boy who was 1 1/2 to two years younger than most other participants. This boy's name was Thomas Muster and he later became World No 1 for a short time. And mind you, everybody always thought that he was "not talented at all, just a hard worker". I can't even imagine how the "talented" guys like Sampras or Becker or Agassi played when they were 13 or 14.
[/quote]
[/quote]

This reminds me of a similar story, though not about me. A guy I used to work with was a very good squash player. Equivalent level of a club champion type at golf I think. He played a match against Peter Nicol, who was world number 1 at the time. Nicol beat him 9-3 9-1 9-0. When I heard this I was quite surprised, because I knew he was good, but not that good. Then he mentioned the kicker. Nicol was wearing flip flops.

[Ty_Webb]

On to the main topic. I have a couple of thoughts and then a question for people.

Some great thoughts in this thread. One I have is that it's not always true that people score worse in tournaments than in regular play. My two lowest rounds in the past 12 months were both in tournaments. The best stroke play rounds I've played in my life were in tournaments (sadly quite a long time ago). I should also add that the two worst rounds I've shot in the last 12 months were also in tournaments. I've also shot some pretty wacky ranges of scores in tournaments. Two consecutive years playing in Open regional qualifying, I shot 90, where I just felt like I had two left hands, couldn't do anything right and then the following year made double on 18 to shoot 72 and finish 2 shots out of a playoff. I had heard on the 18th tee that there were about 10 people playing off for 2 spots at 70 at the moment, so I figured I needed to make birdie on 18 and went for a couple of things I shouldn't have and wound up making 6. Oh well.

For me, I find that tournaments make me concentrate better and the nerves actually tighten up my game. The most pressure that I typically play under is a team match play tournament I play in every April. That has also been the scene of the best golf that I've played in a long time. In regular play, my mind wanders and I make dumb decisions and my scores go up.

The other thing is that I have found that there is a huge part of this game that is being comfortable where you are. The first time that you find yourself under par during a round, there's a good chance you'll be out of your comfort zone and your subconscious will pull you back. The more chances you get to shoot a good score, the more likely you are to get through that. Getting used to being 3, 4, 5 under par is a huge step and will likely free up your scoring significantly. That's going to also be an issue in tournament play, even if you've done it in regular play before. Any thoughts on that one?

Lastly is a question. I quite frequently stand on a tee and I'll make my aim point based on what I feel is my typical shot shape for the day. If there's OB left and trees right, I might well make my target a little further right than if it were the other way around. Especially if my miss that day is going left. I played in a qualifier a couple of months ago and was starting on the 10th, which was a par 5, with OB left and bunkers and trees right. The range was irons only, so I wasn't sure how I was going to be hitting it, but had been missing it left the previous week (granted that doesn't help that that was my previous round). There was a bunker up the right that was about 260 to reach and 270 to clear. I can't make that carry, but to have a chance of making the green in two and get a good start to my round, I had to hit driver. I was also nervous and so I wound up aiming it at that bunker. I then hit it a little right of where I was aiming and wound up in the rough to the right of it from whence I had to lay up. I think I won't be aiming at somewhere where a good shot would put me in trouble. Anyway, given my state of mind, maybe I should have hit something smaller than driver and laid up to the bunker, but that's giving away a good scoring opportunity for that hole. Any hints or tips about what to do in that situation?

[jdailey03]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1407340716' post='9870777']

The other thing is that I have found that there is a huge part of this game that is being comfortable where you are. The first time that you find yourself under par during a round, there's a good chance you'll be out of your comfort zone and your subconscious will pull you back. The more chances you get to shoot a good score, the more likely you are to get through that. Getting used to being 3, 4, 5 under par is a huge step and will likely free up your scoring significantly. That's going to also be an issue in tournament play, even if you've done it in regular play before. Any thoughts on that one?

Lastly is a question. I quite frequently stand on a tee and I'll make my aim point based on what I feel is my typical shot shape for the day. If there's OB left and trees right, I might well make my target a little further right than if it were the other way around. Especially if my miss that day is going left. I played in a qualifier a couple of months ago and was starting on the 10th, which was a par 5, with OB left and bunkers and trees right. The range was irons only, so I wasn't sure how I was going to be hitting it, but had been missing it left the previous week (granted that doesn't help that that was my previous round). There was a bunker up the right that was about 260 to reach and 270 to clear. I can't make that carry, but to have a chance of making the green in two and get a good start to my round, I had to hit driver. I was also nervous and so I wound up aiming it at that bunker. I then hit it a little right of where I was aiming and wound up in the rough to the right of it from whence I had to lay up. I think I won't be aiming at somewhere where a good shot would put me in trouble. Anyway, given my state of mind, maybe I should have hit something smaller than driver and laid up to the bunker, but that's giving away a good scoring opportunity for that hole. Any hints or tips about what to do in that situation?
[/quote]

1. Love what you said about getting used to being under the par. I was always a "par shooter" growing up, and when I got better, it did take me a while to change my mindset from "you're under par, don't screw it up" to "let's get further under par". Very, very good piece of information there.

2. If that were me, I would have taken a club that put me just short of the bunker and tried to make birdie the old fashioned way. Anytime trouble or even when the narrowest part of the fairway is in my "reach it range", I will just play short of it, unless I NEED to make birdie or eagle. Being the first tee and only swinging irons, I don't see any reason to press your luck with a driver. Pick a club short of 260, take a confident swing, and put it in the short grass.

[markponi]

Tee it low and try to hit it on the heel!

[Millbrook]

Returned to golf after 30 years out and entered the club championship after 9 months of playing - came last with 2 rounds much higher than I'd been scoring. Nerves - no just c**p golf. Got the championship coming again in 3 weeks. Will I compete? dead right I will - couldn't have more room for improvement could I.

You'll appreciate that I am in no position to give advice based on golfing ability but I will suggest something for folks to try.

Monitor your internal dialogue, thats the voice in your head. Just become aware of a number of things. Firstly is it your own voice (some folks may have, for example, a critical parent voice. Is it judgemental - 'you're playing sh**e today, why did you enter'. Is it directive - 'right you have to birdie the next 2 holes' .

If any of this is going on then you are battling an internal enemy and you will not win.

[pinhigh27]

I never understand the people that get flustered when they play with really good players in tournaments, like say someone 4-5 shots better than them. I look at it myself, the same way I tell people when I caddy for them and they comment about their skill level: " You're not the best and you're not the worst I've ever caddied for, so there's no reason to try to impress anyone." If I play with a +5 in a tournament, they've played with many way worse than me, and I've played with better than them, so I don't really see the point for either person to care about it.

[tngolf22]

I'm 39 and have won a few one-day scratch tournaments and won our club's gross match play tournament a couple of years ago. I've never won our stroke play club tournament but been in the final group a few times. Most members consider me one of the top players although I have not achieved the pinnacle "club champion" status in the world of club memberships. My handicap hovers between 1-3 and as a former high school hacker I consider that a pretty good achievement over the years.

I played in my first state mid-am qualifier last spring thinking I would go out and get some more tournament exposure to help prepare me for the club tournament. Talk about a rude awakening. A cold front came in and it was windy with high in the mid-30s (not used to), got paired with extremely slow players (not used to), course was longer (not used to), set up fast and difficult (not used to), and CGA officials put us on the clock for slow play (not used to). I made a 20 footer on 18 to shoot 90. It was the first non-70s round I shot in over 8 months.

Like an earlier poster said, [b]vast difference between scratch-low handicap, a competitive tournament player and a legit professional golfer[/b].