Ping to offer Ketsch owners $30 gift, Could this really be the reason why Ping Ketsch putters come u

[Pingfitz]

I would like the correct version, not $30.00, it will be in everyone's head that they are playing with grooves that are too deep even though legal. I have a Karsten Zing TR, It putts better, closer to the hole, then the Ketsch, as posted before are the deeper grooves affecting performance?

[highergr0und]

[quote name='Pingfitz' timestamp='1408725095' post='9987591']
I would like the correct version, not $30.00, it will be in everyone's head that they are not playing with grooves that are too deep even though legal. I have a Karsten Zing TR, It putts better, closer to the hole, then the Ketsch, as posted before are the deeper grooves affecting performance?
[/quote]

Try contacting their support. As long as it's legal, if you love the head you have, I would personally keep it, at least until the updated ones hit stores so you can compare. Imagine selling the deep groove monster to find that it worked better than the new one!!!

[joey2aces]

Imagine the dismay of the people who bought these off of BST/ebay etc before this came out and the delight to those who sold it!

[Wooderson]

Why this is all foolish. If you putt fine with it now why would you need the new one? As long as the putter is consistent then what's the problem?

Is an odyssey white hot inferior to the metal x? No it's just softer. Jeez.

[pkshooter]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1408753848' post='9990619']
Why this is all foolish. If you putt fine with it now why would you need the new one? As long as the putter is consistent then what's the problem?

Is an odyssey white hot inferior to the metal x? No it's just softer. Jeez.
[/quote]

Exactly right, which is why people aren't understanding the whole $30 rebate thing.

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='joey2aces' timestamp='1408727163' post='9987821']
Imagine the dismay of the people who bought these off of BST/ebay etc before this came out and the delight to those who sold it!
[/quote]

I am that people, and I am pissed!

I feel a bit scammed, I mean I ran into a store to pick one up when I heard that production has stopped and 2 days after I have bought it for the sick list price they finally come out with this news. IMO Ping should have released this information first and then stop the orders!

I want to return my putter since now that I know the face is slow on every part of the face I do not have the confidence in the putter anymore, and putting is about confidence!

I will start to investigate what the law in my country is about in these type of situations and what does the consumer protection agency have to say about this.

Is Ping following this forum, could they comment on this situation?!

[golfnhack]

[quote name='Hedgehog' timestamp='1408948966' post='10001451']
[quote name='joey2aces' timestamp='1408727163' post='9987821']
Imagine the dismay of the people who bought these off of BST/ebay etc before this came out and the delight to those who sold it!
[/quote]

I am that people, and I am pissed!

I feel a bit scammed, I mean I ran into a store to pick one up when I heard that production has stopped and 2 days after I have bought it for the sick list price they finally come out with this news. IMO Ping should have released this information first and then stop the orders!

I want to return my putter since now that I know the face is slow on every part of the face I do not have the confidence in the putter anymore, and putting is about confidence!

I will start to investigate what the law in my country is about in these type of situations and what does the consumer protection agency have to say about this.

Is Ping following this forum, could they comment on this situation?!
[/quote]

Wow.... you Fins need some chill pills over there.

[nova6868]

Lots of people are upset. Many of us paid top dollar for a used Ketsch because they were in short supply.

Now nobody wants the original, everyone is waiting for Ketsch 2 that actually has the working TR grooves. So we're left with putters that will have low resale value. $30 ain't going to cover it.

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='golfnhack' timestamp='1408969594' post='10001919']Wow.... you Fins need some chill pills over there.
[/quote]

Sorry got a bit carried away, I appreciate the effort from Ping but this just grinds my gears when the approach to the customers is handled this way around.

Information is king and should have been shared immediately, would have saved me 300+ $...

I have personally contacted Ping and the retailer for a refund or a possibility to change to a nother TR model.

[broth518]

I don't see any issues with the grooves and haven't putted this good in a long time. Actually I think the grooves are too good

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='Hedgehog' timestamp='1408972942' post='10002149']
[quote name='golfnhack' timestamp='1408969594' post='10001919']Wow.... you Fins need some chill pills over there.
[/quote]

Sorry got a bit carried away, I appreciate the effort from Ping but this just grinds my gears when the approach to the customers is handled this way around.

Information is king and should have been shared immediately, would have saved me 300+ $...

I have personally contacted Ping and the retailer for a refund or a possibility to change to a nother TR model.
[/quote]

Just to return to this matter, I got a permission from the retailer to return the putter and got a gift certificate and we placed an order for the new one. Well I was still under the 14day return policy so this should not have been an issue anyway.

A Ping importer will pick the old putter form the store and I assume they will replace them in the store with the new model..

I had the adjustable CB version and I set it to about 36" but when I previously demoed the not adjustable 37" CB the shaft and weight felt much better, I felt like the pendulum effect is greater because in the adjustable there is weight right under the grip that didn't seem so logic to me. Also the shaft is way heavier in the adjustable. The only problem with the 37" was that it touched my belt buckle sometimes so a 36" was the longest possible version I could use and that was also the one I ordered!

Now hoping I would get to use it before winter is here..!

Anyway, good job Ping and the retailer Golf Balance Vantaa!

[BlkNGld]

As I understand it, the way the TR grooves are supposed to work is that their effect is to transfer less energy to balls struck in the center of the face.

Instead of taking the 'driver approach' where everyone strives to get off center hits to have the same ballspeed you get with a center strike, they're slowing down the perfect contact to get consistent distance across more of the face. IIRC, the grooves are deeper in the center.

All we know from the statement is that Ping found TR grooves to be deeper than intended. If they're consistently deeper across the face, then I'm inclined to think no harm, just adjust the stroke to give it a bit more oompf.

What might be happening however, is that they found the grooves were being milled too deep at certain points. They had a certain groove profile that was supposed to be a curve and it was either too flat or too curved compared to what they intended, which would mean you're not getting the TR effect as intended.

As for the $30, if a Ketsch owner were to call Ping and ask that their head be replaced with the 'correct' Ketsch head, I've got a hunch that doing it will run around $30.

[dmblanch]

I'm another one of those guys who bought the Ketsch because of its initial hype. Then I tested it myself and found that everything came up short. I noticed that Ketsch putts really grabbed the turf more (although I didn't attribute this behavior to deep grooves). My fix was to bang putts hard to imaginary points beyond the hole. It worked like a charm. And when faced with a slippery downhill slider, I just turn the overdrive off and I rarely get out of control. When the revelation of the deep grooves came out, I went, "That explains it!" I don't want the $30 or the new Ketsch, I'll stick with my turf grabber.

[Wooderson]

[quote name='rjcejka' timestamp='1411522907' post='10172371']
Here's a copy of my correspondence / reply from Ping, not impressed (loft ? WTF is that ?):

Dear Robert,

Thank you for your interest in PING. This email is being sent in response to the request you recently submitted on [url="http://www.ping.com/"]www.ping.com[/url].

[b]You asked:[/b] I purchased a new Ketsch putter at Golf and Ski in Scarborough Maine a few months ago. I've read on the internet the the grooves on the putter are milled too deep and I don't get the benefit of the variable depth grooves as advertised. I've always thought the putter put too much spin on the ball and I get a lot of turf grabbing and bouncing of my ball. Now that I've read this it confirms my issue and I have ZERO confidence with this putter. I read Ping will refund me $30. Please advise how I get this. I no longer use the putter because of this defect so I'm out $199 (minus the $30 rebate you'll send me). I'd like a full rebate or a new putter when the re-design comes out. I'm a loyal Ping customer; I've bought ISI-K irons, I-15 driver and 3 wood, G-15 5 wood, full set of G-15 irons, anser putter and I'm about to buy new Karsten irons. Purchased all of these new from Golf and Ski. Please address my concerns. thanks. bobby


[b]Our reply[/b]: Robert,

Thank you for your email. You are now entered into our data base and we will contact you with more information about the rebate for the Ketsch putter. We would like to say that you do still get the benefit of the TR grooves on the putter. They were milled deeper than our engineers wanted, but spin on a putt can also be from too much or too little loft. We are sorry to hear that you do not use your Ketsch any longer and hope in the future it could be back in your bag. Proper loft adjustment may help with that issue. We thank you very much for choosing PING.

Regards,

Your friends at PING
[/quote]

So scamming Ping is your solution. The TR grooves still work. There is zero defect with the putter why would you deserve a new one?

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1411527740' post='10172825']So scamming Ping is your solution. The TR grooves still work. There is zero defect with the putter why would you deserve a new one?
[/quote]

[size=4]Now that is a pretty poor answer from the customer service..

I remember the "50% ... 100% of the time" advert, send them a link to that one and ask how is this now "working as advertised"?

Since Ping is playing dirty you could play the same game also.. What you could do is try to defect the putter somehow that it seems like a manufacturing fault and return it.. d[/size]islodge the soleplate or loosen the head from the shaft with heat for example, and demand the new grooves model from the retailer as they send it to PIng for repairs.

I was able to return my CB Ketsch to the retailer, but my putter was still under the 14day return policy.. Been waiting a month now for my order of the "fixed grooves model" to arrive, contest season is almost over and snow is starting to stick to the ground..

[raduray]

Anyone have an idea as to when the reworked models will be available? Will they be differentiated in some manner?

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='raduray' timestamp='1411577720' post='10175731']
Anyone have an idea as to when the reworked models will be available? Will they be differentiated in some manner?
[/quote]

Only difference will be grooves that are shallower so they work as advertized.. Nothing else.

[Wooderson]

Hedgehog, I have seen zero evidence that the old grooves do not work from a tr perspective. You should reword your post. It's deceptive.

[raduray]

[quote name='Hedgehog' timestamp='1411627651' post='10180051']
[quote name='raduray' timestamp='1411577720' post='10175731']
Anyone have an idea as to when the reworked models will be available? Will they be differentiated in some manner?
[/quote]

Only difference will be grooves that are shallower so they work as advertized.. Nothing else.
[/quote]
Yeah, but when you go look at one in the store, how will you know if it's a leftover model with the wrong grooves or a new one with the correct grooves? Ditto for the resale market.

[Wooderson]

[quote name='rjcejka' timestamp='1411649600' post='10180787']
[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1411527740' post='10172825']
[quote name='rjcejka' timestamp='1411522907' post='10172371']
Here's a copy of my correspondence / reply from Ping, not impressed (loft ? WTF is that ?):

Dear Robert,

Thank you for your interest in PING. This email is being sent in response to the request you recently submitted on [url="http://www.ping.com/"]www.ping.com[/url].

[b]You asked:[/b] I purchased a new Ketsch putter at Golf and Ski in Scarborough Maine a few months ago. I've read on the internet the the grooves on the putter are milled too deep and I don't get the benefit of the variable depth grooves as advertised. I've always thought the putter put too much spin on the ball and I get a lot of turf grabbing and bouncing of my ball. Now that I've read this it confirms my issue and I have ZERO confidence with this putter. I read Ping will refund me $30. Please advise how I get this. I no longer use the putter because of this defect so I'm out $199 (minus the $30 rebate you'll send me). I'd like a full rebate or a new putter when the re-design comes out. I'm a loyal Ping customer; I've bought ISI-K irons, I-15 driver and 3 wood, G-15 5 wood, full set of G-15 irons, anser putter and I'm about to buy new Karsten irons. Purchased all of these new from Golf and Ski. Please address my concerns. thanks. bobby


[b]Our reply[/b]: Robert,

Thank you for your email. You are now entered into our data base and we will contact you with more information about the rebate for the Ketsch putter. We would like to say that you do still get the benefit of the TR grooves on the putter. They were milled deeper than our engineers wanted, but spin on a putt can also be from too much or too little loft. We are sorry to hear that you do not use your Ketsch any longer and hope in the future it could be back in your bag. Proper loft adjustment may help with that issue. We thank you very much for choosing PING.

Regards,

Your friends at PING
[/quote]

So scamming Ping is your solution. The TR grooves still work. There is zero defect with the putter why would you deserve a new one?
[/quote]Scamming ? I don't scam anyone and I take offense to that. Asking for a refund on a product sold that didn't match the advertised production specs isn't scamming. It's what happens in business everyday.
[/quote]


What advertised production specs? There is nothing wrong with your putter. When you tried the putter was it coming up short then? If so why did you buy it? Do you consider a urethane insert putter defective compared to a metal insert putter because it comes up short? Ping has stated that the TR grooves are intact and work as designed. I'm simply amazed.

[Wooderson]

[quote name='raduray' timestamp='1411667111' post='10182693']
[quote name='Hedgehog' timestamp='1411627651' post='10180051']
[quote name='raduray' timestamp='1411577720' post='10175731']
Anyone have an idea as to when the reworked models will be available? Will they be differentiated in some manner?
[/quote]

Only difference will be grooves that are shallower so they work as advertized.. Nothing else.
[/quote]
Yeah, but when you go look at one in the store, how will you know if it's a leftover model with the wrong grooves or a new one with the correct grooves? Ditto for the resale market.
[/quote]

Simple, when you putt with the defective one it will come up short.

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1411673804' post='10183425']What advertised production specs? There is nothing wrong with your putter. ... Ping has stated that the TR grooves are intact and work as designed. I'm simply amazed.
[/quote]

[color=#0000ff][size=4]Statement of Ping Chairman & CEO John A. Solheim:[/size]

"[size=4]In the highly-praised Ketsch putter, which is widely used on Tours around the world, [u][b]our internal team recently determined the grooves in the face technology are deeper than intended[/b][/u]. As a result, we suspended production and shipments of the putter"[/size][/color]

[color=#000000]What don't you understand from this? The grooves are supposed to be shallower then they where, and are on the putter made before production was stopped. So, the grooves don't do what Ping advertised: make the center slower and the corners of the face hotter.[/color]

[color=#000000]Now the face is slower ALL OVER THE FACE.[/color]

Do you understand it now?

[Wooderson]

No in the email before it clearly states that the tr grooves still work, so it is possible that there is still a variation in groove depth across the face but that the total depth is deeper.

For example let's say by specs the center is supposed to be .5 mm and the edges .3mm. From what I have read it seems that the center might be .6 mm and the edge .4 mm. Still variable groove depth but deeper overall.

Would be nice to know what exactly is the problem.

[Hedgehog]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1411730370' post='10187387']
No in the email before it clearly states that the tr grooves still work, so it is possible that there is still a variation in groove depth across the face but that the total depth is deeper.

For example let's say by specs the center is supposed to be .5 mm and the edges .3mm. From what I have read it seems that the center might be .6 mm and the edge .4 mm. Still variable groove depth but deeper overall.

Would be nice to know what exactly is the problem.
[/quote]

It is clearly stated right there by the CEO and Chariman that they are too deep for the putter to work as attended.

Let's say for example the grooves are supposed to be ,4mm on the center, if they are now ,6mm in the center and ,4mm on the sides thew do no good for any part of the face.

CEO/Chairmans word is way more significant then one sales reps email who doesn't know what he is on about or used the wrong phrase to describe hes intended meaning.

[NevinW]

I am not sure at all what the fuss is here. I have one of these putters and it is a really good putter. No real problems with distance control other than what is caused by my iffy putting stroke. No digging or excessive spin. It worked as well as any putter does for me when I didn't know about the grooves and now that I know about the problem, it seems to exactly the same as before.

[erock9174]

So did anyone ever get a refund ? I own a Ketsch and want to know how I go about getting my refund.

[pkshooter]

[quote name='erock9174' timestamp='1412378633' post='10231869']
So did anyone ever get a refund ? I own a Ketsch and want to know how I go about getting my refund.
[/quote]

I am curious too. From what I've read on here it sounds like your get a $30 Ping credit, which seems odd since you can't purchase from Ping directly. If it wasn't for posts on this site, I would have known absolutely nothing about this $30 credit.

[seadoc]

Well, just called ping customer service & they were of course quick to point out that there's nothing wrong with the putter, and that it wasn't a recall. I didn't press the issue, since I (think I) understand what's going on. He took my name & email address and said there would be a website up soon in order to register for the $30 gift. I am not holding my breath to get a change to the new head for free.

[golfho50]

And has anyone received their refund from Ping yet? If so was it a check in mail to registered owners address?

Thanks

[racmbs]

Bumping this one up, curious to see if Ping came through for anyone that had been in contact with them about the $30 rebate? I own a Ketsch and have not had a single issue with it, and personally don't give a crap about the $30 as I would not buy anything else Ping related. But for them to publicly state a rebate would be issued and to go completely radio silent on it since is very poor judgement on their part.