SLDR Driver Weight Comments in "Tour Truck Confidential"

[jwalaballa]

Posted this in equipment, but no one bit.

 

Watching the 2nd episode of TMAG's "Tour Truck Confidential" some of the Tour Reps' comments about the SLDR driver captured my attention. At 2:43 when talking to Darren Clarke one mentions that "moving the weight to the heel is going to dynamically help the spin". At 3:36 when talking to Lucas Glover one mentions that "moving the weight to the toe lowers the CG" and then "if it's too weak, it droops and it lags, and the toe never catches up" (was he talking about the shaft here?).

 

On the first comment about moving weight to the heel, I assume that he's inferring that this will lower the spin a bit. Anyone here care to expand on this?

 

When the rep tells Lucas Glover that moving the weight to the toe will lower CG, what's the point he's driving home? What effect would this have on trajectory/spin?

 

On the third comment, what do you think he is referring to? Something being too weak, drooping/lagging, and therefore leaving the face open because the toe is lagging behind. I assume he's talking about the shaft being too weak? Why is this relevant to a player like Lucas Glover who undoubtedly has his clubs fit correctly? What are your thoughts?

 

Here's the link to the video:

 

[jwalaballa]

Fixed the link... No one else found this interesting?

[cxx]

[quote name='jwalaballa' timestamp='1408766506' post='9991737']
Posted this in equipment, but no one bit.

Watching the 2nd episode of TMAG's "Tour Truck Confidential" some of the Tour Reps' comments about the SLDR driver captured my attention. At 2:43 when talking to Darren Clarke one mentions that "moving the weight to the heel is going to dynamically help the spin". At 3:36 when talking to Lucas Glover one mentions that "moving the weight to the toe lowers the CG" and then "if it's too weak, it droops and it lags, and the toe never catches up" (was he talking about the shaft here?).

On the first comment about moving weight to the heel, I assume that he's inferring that this will lower the spin a bit. Anyone here care to expand on this?

When the rep tells Lucas Glover that moving the weight to the toe will lower CG, what's the point he's driving home? What effect would this have on trajectory/spin?

On the third comment, what do you think he is referring to? Something being too weak, drooping/lagging, and therefore leaving the face open because the toe is lagging behind. I assume he's talking about the shaft being too weak? Why is this relevant to a player like Lucas Glover who undoubtedly has his clubs fit correctly? What are your thoughts?

Here's the link to the video:

[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PurtF5bIUfA"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=PurtF5bIUfA[/url]
[/quote]

The last comment is about the shaft being too weak. Although some here might disagree with the head lagging comment.

[Mob]

How much does the SLDR weight weigh? I'm talking about the stock one that comes with the club.

[Ajlepisto]

The weight is 20g.

 

So think this through with me and tell me if it makes sense. I think I got it. The "neutral" blue dash on the SLDR is actually a little on the inside of the bottom crown. If you move it like 2 clicks more to the toe, it actually goes down vertically, because it's at the top (bottom) of the curve. So it does lower it.

 

So counter that. When you go to draw, it tends to draw. Depending on the shot shape and what they're trying to do with spin...you could:

 

1. Make it more draw biased so that you reduce backspin.

 

2. Raise the CG a bit (because it's higher away from the bottom of the club, as I mentioned earlier) and also knock off spin because the CG is now higher.

 

So I think it makes sense...if you think about working the club in those terms.

 

Here's what I mean. The physical lowest point of the club is toe notches more toward the toe than where the weight comes set from the factory.

 

 

 

Basically aligned between the L and the D on the SLDR badge. That is a few MM lower when the club is soled flat than where the weight is in this picture. From face on, the weight naturally aligns more with the heel side of the sweet spot lines.

 

I've also heard that weight in the toe produces a bit more ballspeed.

 

And yes the last part was the shaft.

[jwalaballa]

Good stuff here! Thanks for your input AJ!

[TMBob]

Sorta interesting but if you own a SLDR why not just try the different locations and see what type of results come from it?

[HISPL]

The weight is 20g.

 

So think this through with me and tell me if it makes sense. I think I got it. The "neutral" blue dash on the SLDR is actually a little on the inside of the bottom crown. If you move it like 2 clicks more to the toe, it actually goes down vertically, because it's at the top (bottom) of the curve. So it does lower it.

 

So counter that. When you go to draw, it tends to draw. Depending on the shot shape and what they're trying to do with spin...you could:

 

1. Make it more draw biased so that you reduce backspin.

 

2. Raise the CG a bit (because it's higher away from the bottom of the club, as I mentioned earlier) and also knock off spin because the CG is now higher.

 

So I think it makes sense...if you think about working the club in those terms.

 

Here's what I mean. The physical lowest point of the club is toe notches more toward the toe than where the weight comes set from the factory.

 

 

 

Basically aligned between the L and the D on the SLDR badge. That is a few MM lower when the club is soled flat than where the weight is in this picture. From face on, the weight naturally aligns more with the heel side of the sweet spot lines.

 

I've also heard that weight in the toe produces a bit more ballspeed.

 

And yes the last part was the shaft.

 

Raising the CG will raise the spin not lower it.

[Ajlepisto]

The weight is 20g.

 

So think this through with me and tell me if it makes sense. I think I got it. The "neutral" blue dash on the SLDR is actually a little on the inside of the bottom crown. If you move it like 2 clicks more to the toe, it actually goes down vertically, because it's at the top (bottom) of the curve. So it does lower it.

 

So counter that. When you go to draw, it tends to draw. Depending on the shot shape and what they're trying to do with spin...you could:

 

1. Make it more draw biased so that you reduce backspin.

 

2. Raise the CG a bit (because it's higher away from the bottom of the club, as I mentioned earlier) and also knock off spin because the CG is now higher.

 

So I think it makes sense...if you think about working the club in those terms.

 

Here's what I mean. The physical lowest point of the club is toe notches more toward the toe than where the weight comes set from the factory.

 

 

 

Basically aligned between the L and the D on the SLDR badge. That is a few MM lower when the club is soled flat than where the weight is in this picture. From face on, the weight naturally aligns more with the heel side of the sweet spot lines.

 

I've also heard that weight in the toe produces a bit more ballspeed.

 

And yes the last part was the shaft.

 

Raising the CG will raise the spin not lower it.

 

How do you figure? The irons that have the weight knocked into the soles are made to hit the ball higher with more spin.

 

Hitting a driver low on the face, which is below the CG point does increase spin, but that's because of the shape of the face and gear effect.

 

If spin went up because CG gets higher, then why do they put the majority of the weight into the sole of irons, even the MBs? Mass behind the sweetspot, but it's also lower than the CG of the ball...Why else do tour pros who want to knock some spin and launch off put lead tape above the MB on their irons, up by the top? Or guys who want a little more launch and spin put tape down on the muscle?

 

Unless somehow I am missing the entire point? Never heard otherwise.

[HISPL]

The weight is 20g.

 

So think this through with me and tell me if it makes sense. I think I got it. The "neutral" blue dash on the SLDR is actually a little on the inside of the bottom crown. If you move it like 2 clicks more to the toe, it actually goes down vertically, because it's at the top (bottom) of the curve. So it does lower it.

 

So counter that. When you go to draw, it tends to draw. Depending on the shot shape and what they're trying to do with spin...you could:

 

1. Make it more draw biased so that you reduce backspin.

 

2. Raise the CG a bit (because it's higher away from the bottom of the club, as I mentioned earlier) and also knock off spin because the CG is now higher.

 

So I think it makes sense...if you think about working the club in those terms.

 

Here's what I mean. The physical lowest point of the club is toe notches more toward the toe than where the weight comes set from the factory.

 

 

 

Basically aligned between the L and the D on the SLDR badge. That is a few MM lower when the club is soled flat than where the weight is in this picture. From face on, the weight naturally aligns more with the heel side of the sweet spot lines.

 

I've also heard that weight in the toe produces a bit more ballspeed.

 

And yes the last part was the shaft.

 

Raising the CG will raise the spin not lower it.

 

How do you figure? The irons that have the weight knocked into the soles are made to hit the ball higher with more spin.

 

Hitting a driver low on the face, which is below the CG point does increase spin, but that's because of the shape of the face and gear effect.

 

If spin went up because CG gets higher, then why do they put the majority of the weight into the sole of irons, even the MBs? Mass behind the sweetspot, but it's also lower than the CG of the ball...Why else do tour pros who want to knock some spin and launch off put lead tape above the MB on their irons, up by the top? Or guys who want a little more launch and spin put tape down on the muscle?

 

Unless somehow I am missing the entire point? Never heard otherwise.

 

OK, you are right about irons with more weight in the sole launching the ball higher but they do not spin more for the same given specs elsewhere.

 

The reason why manufacturers put more weight towards the sole even in MB irons is because the COG of most irons (heck most clubs period) is actually above the equator of the ball when they are resting on a level surface.

 

Have you noticed that irons with say 30 degrees of loft when hit by a good player do not launch anywhere near that high?

 

For the sake of easy math lets say a good player hits an iron shot with an iron with 30 degrees of loft, the player strikes the ball with a negative angle of attack of 2 degrees and leans the shaft of the club forwards by 3 degrees but the launch is only 16 degrees... Why is that?

 

Well the player struck the ball below the COG of the head this caused the face of the club to rotate "under" and due loft the club at impact.

 

This is why a tour player (any excellent ball striker) can launch the ball at say 16 degrees with such a high level of spin say around 6000rpm with a mid iron.

[Ajlepisto]

Well, what I don't get is this:

that 30 degree iron is a 6i. So tour average is around 14 degrees launch angle.

In order to hit it like that, they have to lean the shaft much further than a couple degrees. From what I've heard and read, average is about 10* of forward shaft lean with mid irons.

Tour average with a 6i is also 4* down.

so 30-4=26. then minus our 10* of forward shaft lean...16. That seems a lot closer.

The reason they spin the ball more is because of the difference between their AoA and dynamic loft = spin loft. When you combine that angle with their speed, it's relatively easy to get 6000k RPM of spin. Lots of amateurs spin their irons more, or bring their AoA numbers higher because of their flipping, bumping dynamic loft and AoA...so that explains why some people hit it higher with less spin but not as far.

Trackman says the average dynamic loft for a 6i on the PGA tour is 20.*

[url="http://mytrackman.com/explore/trackman-data/trackman-club-data/dynamic-loft"]http://mytrackman.co...ta/dynamic-loft[/url]

So if I took my 30 degree, turned it into 20 at impact with forward lean and face angle, etc, then also had my average 4* AoA at impact, I get back to my 16 number. I realize there's a 2* difference between launch angle and dynamic loft + AoA, but I don't see how it's as dramatic as the first numbers?

EDIT: I realized that it might be due to gear effect on the irons. It makes sense to have a degree or two difference for vertical gear effect on irons...

So maybe you're right. Basically, moving CG changes the gear effect, which changes ballflight, is more or less what I was saying, it's not just moving mass, from what I understand...and what I think Maltby says too? But I could be wrong. I'm always learning.

[cxx]

Gear effect has more to do with the rearward distance to the COG. That's the point that the clubhead rotates around. Its the sideways translation of the impact spot due to the gear that puts spin on the ball. You don't see the effect on irons nearly as much as with woods.

The launch direction is on the d-plane, closer to the normal than the club path and is at least 5/7 of the normal (loft of the club). If it were a perfectly elastic collision the ball would travel along the normal direction but there would be no spin. The spin, caused by the friction with the clubface reduces the resulting ball speed too.

There are a bunch of posts about golf on physicsforums.com .

[Ajlepisto]

Ah....so that explains why the launch is slightly lower than the actual effective loft.

And yes gear effect is tiny on irons. So with thr SLDR...moving the cg forward reduces gear effect hence the more loft less spin mantra...yes?

[cxx]

[quote name='Ajlepisto' timestamp='1408980475' post='10003163']
Ah....so that explains why the launch is slightly lower than the actual effective loft.

And yes gear effect is tiny on irons. So with thr SLDR...moving the cg forward reduces gear effect hence the more loft less spin mantra...yes?
[/quote]


I thought there was another effect from the forward COG that they were talking about. Could have been something about effective loft at impact. I'm not sure how far forward it really is, but that and I think they say the COG is lower as well. More impacts above the COG reducing spin with the vertical gear effect.

[Ajlepisto]

Ah. Well the SLDR is supposed to have lower and further forward CG...so that alone is gonna have a big impact on gear effect. Maybe that's why they can say that the sweetspot the SLDR is lower on the face.

[HISPL]

Unfortunately moving the COG forward also it has a detrimental effect on MOI the closer the COG is to the face the lower the MOI.

Remember that there is only one COG in the head, it is a 3D concept

The closer the COG is to the axis of the shaft the easier the face angle is to rotate too

[cxx]

[quote name='HISPL' timestamp='1409059700' post='10010067']
Unfortunately moving the COG forward also it has a detrimental effect on MOI the closer the COG is to the face the lower the MOI.

Remember that there is only one COG in the head, it is a 3D concept

The closer the COG is to the axis of the shaft the easier the face angle is to rotate too
[/quote]

Hmm, not sure the location of the COG is the main factor in the MOI. MOI is the resistance to rotation about an axis, and is the sum of squared distance to the axis times the mass at that location. I has more to do with the distribution of weight. The axis that we normally talk about is the vertical through the COG for sideways gear effect and horizontal through the COG for the vertical gear effect. Moving the COG closer to the hosel with a moveable weight does reduce the MOI about the shaft making it easier to rotate. Adding weight to move the COG only increases the MOI.