Super Open Stance. I have FOUND it!!!!

[Obee]

 

So this discovery is in conjunction with my thread on the "super low right shoulder." I was messing around recently (I'm a golf tinkerer), and I hit back on something that I read in another thread: The SUPER open stance at address.

 

Background: I'm a self-taught player. I learned from reading books and watching tour pros on television. I was a baseball player in college, and I kind of just "found my own way." 7 - 10 years ago, I was a very good player. During the competitive season I lived in the +2.0 to +3.5 index range and shot lots of low scores (for an amateur) in competitive rounds. I had a 2.5 year layoff due to several surgeries, and after I came back from the layoff, I haven't been anywhere close to the player I was. I can still play decent golf, but with nagging back and side issues, I just can't get consistent.

 

At least I thought it was the back and side only. I think I discovered another reason today. When I was at my best, I always played from a very open stance. It felt like I was "throwing" or "pushing" the ball at my target with my torso from the inside out (a la Trevino's "push fade"). The move was simple, repeatable, and deadly accurate (especially with LW - 7-iron).

 

The wide open set up (for me) resulted in a very low ball-flight with lots of spin. I could work the ball both ways from that set-up, too. The only thing that changed was ball position (farther back for draws), and release (later and "under" for fades and released and "over" for draws).

 

I think I gave up on this way of playing because, soon after returning to golf after my layoff, I also switched to another country club: Bear Creek in Murrieta, California. My old club was 6560, with soft greens. I hit lots of wedges there, and I was deadly. The course fit that swing perfectly.

 

Fast forward to Bear Creek, and the course is 7,157 with elevated greens and half of the year we play off dormant bermuda fairways. It's a completely different course. I (unknowingly) completely changed my swing in order to hit a "higher" ball, and it just destroyed my consistency.

 

And that's just the full swing. I realized that I used to play all of my short game shots that way. Similarly, I used to fully trust my short game. There was no shot around the greens that scared me. Now, since I've "squared up" more, I just have no consistency. I used to get up and down from everywhere. It felt like I just lined up left, turned my torso back and through, and that was it. I just varied ball position depending on what I wanted to do with the ball. If I wanted to stop it fast, I played it half a ball forward and put cut spin on it. If I wanted it to "go," I played it half a ball (or more) back, and put "go" spin on it (where the right hand released slightly, like in a full-swing draw).

 

For the last 30 minutes, golf felt "simple" again. It almost always used to feel that way for me, and I want to get that feeling again. I'm 47 and I know I can still play better golf than I'm playing right now. I want to contend again, not just shoot 74, 78, 73 and get a crappy "T-17."

 

This is the key for me, I'm certain. I will update my progress and post some videos. First round with it will be today. Final round of the Inland Empire Amateur at Victoria Club: 6500ish/71.3/130(?).

 

Thanks for reading, and happy golfing. :-)

 

 

[LittleLeftToRight]

I can't relate to your open stance in the full swing, although I tend to gravitate to an open stance if I don't check it. Everything close to the green though is played with a wide open stance, as much as 45º for chip shots. I think it is a great way to go. I have always had a stellar short game like you. If I could just get my driver to behave, I could probably get my scores back south of the border again (20 year layoff).

Good luck with your tournament.

[LaggingBehind]

Thank you for sharing this, I believe this is what I need to staighten my spine tilt post impact. I hit my driver with an open stance and also play my wedges open, and they are always more consistent than my irons and put less strain on my back. I never realized this before your post. Can't wait to try it out on the course later today.

By the way, how do you aim with an open stance?

[Cicero]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1409590152' post='10044893']
So this discovery is in conjunction with my thread on the "super low right shoulder." I was messing around recently (I'm a golf tinkerer), and I hit back on something that I read in another thread: The SUPER open stance at address.

Background: I'm a self-taught player. I learned from reading books and watching tour pros on television. I was a baseball player in college, and I kind of just "found my own way." 7 - 10 years ago, I was a very good player. During the competitive season I lived in the +2.0 to +3.5 index range and shot lots of low scores (for an amateur) in competitive rounds. I had a 2.5 year layoff due to several surgeries, and after I came back from the layoff, I haven't been anywhere close to the player I was. I can still play decent golf, but with nagging back and side issues, I just can't get consistent.

At least I thought it was the back and side only. I think I discovered another reason today. When I was at my best, I always played from a very open stance. It felt like I was "throwing" or "pushing" the ball at my target with my torso from the inside out (a la Trevino's "push fade"). The move was simple, repeatable, and deadly accurate (especially with LW - 7-iron).

The wide open set up (for me) resulted in a very low ball-flight with lots of spin. I could work the ball both ways from that set-up, too. The only thing that changed was ball position (farther back for draws), and release (later and "under" for fades and released and "over" for draws).

I think I gave up on this way of playing because, soon after returning to golf after my layoff, I also switched to another country club: Bear Creek in Murrieta, California. My old club was 6560, with soft greens. I hit lots of wedges there, and I was deadly. The course fit that swing perfectly.

Fast forward to Bear Creek, and the course is 7,157 with elevated greens and half of the year we play off dormant bermuda fairways. It's a completely different course. I (unknowingly) completely changed my swing in order to hit a "higher" ball, and it just destroyed my consistency.

And that's just the full swing. I realized that I used to play all of my short game shots that way. Similarly, I used to fully trust my short game. There was no shot around the greens that scared me. Now, since I've "squared up" more, I just have no consistency. I used to get up and down from everywhere. It felt like I just lined up left, turned my torso back and through, and that was it. I just varied ball position depending on what I wanted to do with the ball. If I wanted to stop it fast, I played it half a ball forward and put cut spin on it. If I wanted it to "go," I played it half a ball (or more) back, and put "go" spin on it (where the right hand released slightly, like in a full-swing draw).

For the last 30 minutes, golf felt "simple" again. It almost always used to feel that way for me, and I want to get that feeling again. I'm 47 and I know I can still play better golf than I'm playing right now. I want to contend again, not just shoot 74, 78, 73 and get a crappy "T-17."

This is the key for me, I'm certain. I will update my progress and post some videos. First round with it will be today. Final round of the Inland Empire Amateur at Victoria Club: 6500ish/71.3/130(?).

Thanks for reading, and happy golfing. :-)[/quote]

Not the player you are, but I hit the ball straightest from an open stance, and I also got away from it. Thanks for the reminder

[High Plains Driver]

I have said it a couple of times on different threads. When my swing gets out of sync during a round, I aim 30° left and hit pushes the remainder of the round.
It is uber consistent and reliable. I don't do it all the time as it feels like it is harder on my back.

[Tanner25]

You must like watching Bubba Watson.

[dan360]

Jack Nicklaus, Lee Trevino, and others...approve of this message.

[The Pearl]

Obee,

How open are you for the various clubs? An open stance has always felt more natural to me than the conventional stance, however, I have never fully adopted it other than merely screwing around.

[MadGolfer76]

Open is way better for me too, as opposed to square or closed.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

Great Track you play out of Obee. I find it enlightening to hear a story about solid golf played from a non-fundamentally perfect position. You stick with what works,play your game and forget about positions and number chasing.

One of my best buddies plays very similar from an open set up and plays primarily low cuts. The number freaks short circuit at his radar data but he's a stick and posts scores. A lot of ways to skin the cat.

[Sean2]

I think the gentleman who just won the D-Bank has an open stance as well.

[CBJ]

I'm glad you started this thread. Years ago I played with a open stance with a lot of success, it's something I'm going to give a try again as I have been struggling w/ inconsistency. When I played w/ a open stance I was able to take the left side out of play, no hooks, no draws.

[Pure745]

Obee - you playing in the Bob Hope?

[Obee]

Yes, with Gooch.

[Obee]

You playing?

[Pure745]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1409625840' post='10047819']
You playing?
[/quote]

Nope, probably next year. I played in The Jewel instead.. cheaper and less time off work Play well, you guys are hosting the next scratch skins game at BC, we shut down for a few weeks after the member/member this weekend.

[Obee]

Absolutely, bud!!

[Wardell Stone]

Update on your open stance?

[SixtySomePing]

Obee, how about the timing of your hips clearing, do you hold back a little so they don't get ahead of the rest of you and throw off your tempo? Funny, I tried this last year when I couldn't hit a thing, and started hitting it long and consistent but with a fade. I usually hit a draw which I prefer. So I found my original swing by slowing down and went back to it, but I was surprised how what you say worked so well. Besides playing it back farther for a draw, anything else different?

[Biomateur]

Trevino once said his super consistent pattern is not suitable for all courses.

[stryper]

Couple of questions...

How open are you guys?

And are your hips open at address, or are they square to the target line like your shoulders?

[jurr80]

I just returned from a lesson, and after setting up, my coach said "open your stance....keep going...keeeeep going.
I felt so open. He says, "oh, look. Now you're actually square to the target line!"

He stated that a lot of guys set up super closed because they misinterpret "parallel left" and actually set the shoulders to the target. This sets up a bad contradiction for the path of the swing.

Setting up "normal" for a lot of guys is actually setting up way closed.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='jurr80' timestamp='1434461419' post='11760918']
He stated that a lot of guys set up super closed because they misinterpret "parallel left" and actually set the shoulders to the target. This sets up a bad contradiction for the path of the swing.
[/quote]

If someone's shoulders are truly aligned to the target, he won't appear closed. There is no functional (measurable) difference between shoulders aligned at a distant target or aligned to 2 feet left of the distant target.

Folks make the error of setting up closed because we stand next to the ball, rather than behind it. Parallax error.

( edit )
several old threads revived the last few days...

[GaryRead]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1434466211' post='11761540']
[quote name='jurr80' timestamp='1434461419' post='11760918']
He stated that a lot of guys set up super closed because they misinterpret "parallel left" and actually set the shoulders to the target. This sets up a bad contradiction for the path of the swing.
[/quote]

If someone's shoulders are truly aligned to the target, he won't appear closed. There is no functional (measurable) difference between shoulders aligned at a distant target or aligned to 2 feet left of the distant target.

Folks make the error of setting up closed because we stand next to the ball, rather than behind it. Parallax error.

( edit )
several old threads revived the last few days...
[/quote]

Exactly. I hate when ppl harp on about being parallel left of the target. The typical train tracks analogy means that over 200 yards the ball and target are still only a few feet apart, can you tell from that distance what is parallel left? over that distance any meaningful adjustment is negligible. the lines just basically blend into one another into the distance!