Tour Pros vs. "Scratch" Players

[Obee]

In IsaacBM's "tournament versus recreation golf" thread, Ron Stelton mentioned the "magic circle," which he talks about being a 20 foot circle around the hole in regulation. He says that the pros hit it in the "magic circle" far more often than good amateurs, and I agree 100%.

 

The magic circle is truly what it's all about. There are many factors that go into what separates each level of player from the next, but that one is the most important on a long term basis. Over one round (which I will show below), it can be overcome by short game or better putting by the amateur, or mediocre putting by the pro, but there is simply no substitute for "hitting the pocket," to borrow a bowling analogy. Not every ball thrown in the pocket in bowling results in a strike, just like not every ball hit in the "magic circle" results in a birdie. Keep hitting the pocket, though, and you're going to make a lot of strikes. Keep hitting it in the magic circle, and you're going to make a lot of birdies on a regular basis--the key to competing at elite amateur or professional golf.

 

Just yesterday I played a Saturday round at the club with a top Champions Tour player. I've played dozens of rounds with this guy. After playing with him over and over and over, I can tell you some pretty indisputable things about a below-scratch amateur versus a tour pro.

 

As many of you on the site already know, I'm a competitive amateur. I'm a +0.8 right now, and my low index is usually in the +2 range. Years ago, I was more like a +2.5 to +3.5 for much of the year, but those days are gone. I'm 47 now, and I just hit the ball too short and am constantly battling lingering back and side issues. I was never "long," but I was always "long enough." Now I'm not even "long enough." I can't take advantage of any par 5's if they are over 510 or so, and I just don't have the club head speed anymore to access truly tough pins in true tournament conditions (firm greens).

 

I can still play this game at a reasonable competitive level, and if you put me inside 140 yards, there isn't a lot that separates my game from a pro’s when I'm healthy and can release through impact.. When I was longer, I could take advantage of that strength (my solid play from inside 140), and would be hitting wedge into quite a few holes every round. Because of that, I was able to hit the ball into the “magic circle” quite frequently. Now, on a longer course, I'm lucky to be inside 140 on any holes except the shortest par 4’s and the par 5’s, which greatly reduces my ability to put it in that magic circle.

 

I only mention my game for comparison's sake when I play with a Tour Pro. And by the way, I'm comparing myself to a Champions Tour player, and not a regular tour player because I'm 47. If I were 32, I'd use a regular Tour Pro as an example. So let’s get into it!

 

Here's yesterday's round at Bear Creek Golf Club (7,157 75.7/146). We played all tees back except for two par 4's that were up one tee due to some tee maintenance. Played about 7,100 yards and longer than that, actually, due to how soft and wet the fairways are in the morning in the Inland Empire due to temperatures reaching 100 degrees-plus and them having to water so heavily over-night and in the morning.

 

I'm going to give a hole-by-hole breakdown of how our round went so that you can see what it's really like to play a Tour Pro. Greens yesterday were running at 10.5ish, but on the bumpy side due to recent top-dressing/punching. All the holes have been filled in with grass, but they are still soft and not the truest.

 

One other thing before I get into details: We gamble when we play. Yesterday we were a fivesome, and there were multiple team bets and individual bets, including the Champions Tour player playing a Web.com player for some $$$. This particular Champions Tour pro is a grinder. He plays golf. That's what he does. He grinds over 3-foot putts with us and HATES to lose to any of us!! LOL

 

1) 421 par 4, Very little wind at this time. Course soaking wet. Very little roll.

 

OBEE: Drive down the middle. 174 to a back left pin. Hit 7-hybrid (32 degrees) to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 155 to back left pin. Hits 9-iron to 8 feet. BIRDIE. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 1/1, Tour Pro 1/1

 

2) 424 Par 4.

 

OBEE: Drive down the middle.168 to tucked left pin just over huge ridge. I hit 7-hybrid to 20 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

 

TOUR PRO: Tour Pro hits 3-wood down on right side of fairway. 160 to pin. Hits 8-iron to 12 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 2/2, Tour Pro 2/2

 

3) 528 par 5 (second shot is uphill and into a breeze. Plays much longer than 528.

 

OBEE: Drive down the middle. 4-wood lay-up to left side of fairway. LW from 70 yards to 12 feets. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 3-wood carries center bunker and is 20 yards short of green. Pitches to a foot. Birdie. 2-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 3/3, Tour Pro 3/3

 

4) 415 par 4. Very difficult driving hole with multiple options.

 

OBEE: Drive down the middle, but heeled a bit and short. 164 to tucked right pin. 7-hybrid to left front with big ridge in between ball and hole. Bad first putt and miss the 4-foot par putt. BOGEY. 1-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: Drives over right fairway bunker. 140 to pin. Misses green right. Chips 4-feet long and makes the par save. 2-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 3 / 4, Tour pro 3 / 4.

 

5) 472 par 4. A bit downhill on drive. Considerably downhill on approach.

 

OBEE: Drive into right rough. 207 to back pin. 4-hybrid into right long rough. Pitch out to 20 feet and 2-putt for bogey. 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. 170 to pin. 8-iron just over green in thick rough. Stubs chip a bit and leaves is short. Misses 10 foot par putt. Bogey. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 3 / 5, Tour Pro 3 / 5

 

6) 152 par 3 (playing 129 today and downwind now). Tiny green. Trouble short and long.

 

OBEE: Choke-down, cut PW to six feet. Putt has a lot of break, and I miss it low. Par. 2-OVER.

 

TOUR PRO: GW onto back fringe. 20 feet. 2-putts for par. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 6, Tour Pro 4 / 6

 

7) 400 par 4

 

OBEE: Drive barely into left rough. 9-iron from 151 to 25 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: 3-wood down middle. PW to 10 feet. Lips out birdie putt. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 7, Tour Pro 5 / 7

 

8) 177 par 3, playing 168 actual. Down-wind.

 

OBEE: 8-iron that I pull left into a deep swale. LW pitch to 6 feet. Make the par save: 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: 8-iron to 10 feet. Lips out again. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 8, Tour Pro 6 / 8

 

9) 539 par 5:

 

OBEE: Drive into left fairway bunker. 7-hybrid lay-up to 141. 9-iron short and in bunker. LW bunker shot to 4 feet. Save par. 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: Drive into left fairway bunker up. 9-iron lay-up to 140. PW to 30 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER.

 

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 9, Tour Pro 6 / 9.

 

10) 432 par 4

 

OBEE: Drive down middle. 8-iron from 165 to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: 3-wood down middle. 8-iron from 170 to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 5/ 10, Tour Pro 7 / 10

 

11) 555 par 5.

 

OBEE: Horrible drive into left rough. 320 from pin. Downhill lie, ball nestled down. Horrible 6-hybrid lay-up attempt that I only advance 100 yards. 207 to front left pin out of rough. 4-hybrid that I knock on front-right of green 30 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down right side, which shortens the hole. 3-wood that he blocks right into water hazard. Drops and pitches on to 18 feet and 2 putts for bogey. EVEN PAR

 

Magic Circle: Obee 5 / 11, Tour Pro 7 / 11

 

12) 207 par 3. Into wind and uphill with deep bunkers short.

 

OBEE: 3-hybrid just a bit short into deep bunker. LW bunker shot to 3 feet. Make the putt to save par. 2-OVER.

 

TOUR PRO: Hybrid to 8 feet. Misses the putt and settles for par. EVEN PAR

 

Magic Circle: Obee 5 / 12, Tour Pro 8 / 12

 

13) 352 par 4. Strong crosswind.

 

OBEE: 4-wood down middle. GW from 109 to 12 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER.

 

TOUR PRO: Driver down middle. LW from 50 yards to 15 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

 

Magic Circle: Obee 6 / 13, Tour Pro 9 / 13

 

14) 543 par 5 (plays uphill and into a 10 – 15 mph wind).

 

OBEE: Drive down middle. 4-wood lay-up to 107 yards. Choke-down, cut PW to 3 feet. Make the birdie. 1-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 3-wood up near green, but has an awkward stance and ball is in rough. Hits great pitch to 7 feet. Lips out the putt for birdie and settles for par. EVEN PAR

 

Magic Circle: Obee 7 / 14, Tour Pro 10 / 14

 

15) 421 par 4. Upill and into 10 – 15 mph wind.

 

OBEE: Drive down right-center of fairway, but I miss it a bit. 205 to front pin. 3-hybrid to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. Comes over the top on his approach and pulls it into left bunker with downhill lie to downhill pin. Hits an amazing shot, but he still has 10 feet for par. Misses the par and makes bogey. 1-OVER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 15, Tour Pro 10 / 15

 

16) 222 par 3 downhill, with strong wind down and left.

 

OBEE: 4-hybrid that I whiff and hit in front bunker, 30 yards short. GW to 10 feet. Miss the par save. 2-OVER

 

TOUR PRO: 5-iron misses green slightly left. Chips up and saves par. 1-OVER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 16, Tour Pro 10 / 16

 

17) 439 par 4. Wind down and across from right.

 

OBEE: Pull-hook drive into left rough. Blast 4-wood from 230 into front bunker. Knock bunker shot to 2-feet. Par. 2-OVER.

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. 9-iron from 150 to 15 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-OVER

 

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 17, Tour Pro 11 / 17

 

18) 432 par 4 downwind.

 

OBEE: Drive down middle. PW from 140 to tough front pin to 8 feet. Miss the birdie and tap in for a 2-OVER 74 on a course rated 75.7/146.

 

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. GW from 130 to 12 feet. Misses the birdie and taps in for a 1-OVER 73.

 

Final “Magic Circle” Numbers: Obee 9 / 18, Tour Pro 12 / 18.

 

So there you have it. Keep in mind that the round was pretty typical in terms of ball-striking. The Tour Pro hit the ball about like he usually does, but yesterday he maximized his score. Hit hit one ball in the water, and he made absolutely nothing in terms of birdie putts. Based upon his ball-striking yesterday, I would expect his scoring to range from 66 to 73. He scored about as poorly as he possibly could have scored. He just made nothing. He’s actually a very, very good putter, but the greens were a bit bumpy, and they weren’t falling for him.

 

Based upon my ball-striking, I would expect my score to range from a low of 69 to a high of 78 with that round yesterday. I made a couple nice par saves, but I also made zero birdie putts in the 6 to 18 foot range, and I had quite a few of them.

 

Final stats:

 

OBEE: 12/18 GIR, 9/14 fairways, 32 putts, 9 / 18 magic circle, 3 / 4 sand saves, 1 / 2 up-and-down.

 

TOUR PRO: 13 / 18 GIR, 13 / 14 Fairways, 32 putts, 12 / 18 magic circle, 0 / 1 sand saves, 2 / 3 up-and-down.

 

So make of that what you will. I play with this guy a lot. Our standard bet is that he plays from the back tees (the tees we played yesterday) at 7,157, and I play one set up from the gold tees 6,874. He gives me 2 a side when we play that way, and over the last 2.5 years in which we have played several dozen rounds, I would say that he is slightly (55/45?) ahead in the bet. If we always played the black tees together as we did yesterday, I would ask him for another shot on the front, for a total of 5 shots. I would take that bet as “fair” whether we played stroke play or match play due to my overall “steadiness” as a player and the fact that I don’t “blow-up” very often (I rarely make double-bogey or worse).

 

So that’s approximately a five shot difference in our games on a regular basis. Where do those five shots come from?

 

1) He’s both longer and (a bit) straighter than I am off the tee, and even though he’s 55 years old, he’s getting longer. He’s longer today than he was three years ago according to him. He’s fitter, stronger, and in overall amazing shape with a well-tuned driver for his swing. He hits the ball in the 270 to 290 range on a regular basis. I hit the ball 245 to 265. That’s a BIG difference.

2) He’s a much more consistent putter than I am, especially from “where it counts”: 4 – 10 feet. (I can putt well from time-to-time, but I have no consistency from week to week, month to month).

3) He’s a much better and more consistent mid to long-iron/hybrid player than I am

4) He’s a much, much better and more consistent fairway wood player than I am (he can hit the ball much higher than I can, when necessary, for instance)

5) He’s a slightly better short iron (PW GW SW LW) player than I am

6) He has a moderately better “normal” short game than I do (basic bunker shots, basic pitch and chip shots)

7) He’s significantly better at short game “specialty shots” than I am (very difficult bunker shots, very difficult lies to very difficult pins, etc). For an amateur, I am quite skilled in that area—certainly better than most “scratch” golfers. He is, though, one of the best on tour at those types of shots. This isn’t a big deal, though, due to the fact that a good player can sometimes go several rounds without ever encountering a shot that requires any type of special talent. When you do have one of those shots, though, it sure helps (and saves strokes) to be an expert.

8) He has a far more stable “mental game” and routine than I do. He simply does the same thing over and over and over. His routine is a beauty to behold, as is his demeanor and steadiness on the course.

 

So there you have it. The five(ish) strokes per round come from all of those areas combined. Sometimes he beats me by 7, 8, even 9 strokes. Sometimes he beats me be only one stroke. Sometimes (quite rarely), I beat him straight up. Overall, though, it’s about five strokes.

 

One last thing: The tougher the conditions get, the more his superior skills and length will increase the separation in our games to six, seven or even eight shots on average. Two factors play the biggest role in that separation: Green firmness and rough length, with the more important of those two being green firmness. When the greens get firm, the pros ability to stick their 7-irons close far exceeds mine (and most competitive amateurs) due to their higher club head speed and superior launch characteristics/consistency that allows them to hold greens from tough lies and attack pins that I have to play away from.

 

We can learn a lot by comparing ourselves to the pros, but we have to be realistic when doing so. Golf is made up of levels. Figure out what level you are at and figure out a way to get to the next level. If you're a "mid-capper" (10 to 15 handicap), figure out how to get to "low handicap" (4 to 9). If you're a low handicapper, figure out how to get to "around scratch" (1 to 3). If you're "around scratch," figure out how to get to club scratch (+ 1 to 1). If you're a club scratch, figure out how to get your game to local/regional tournament level (+ 1 to +3). If you're a local/regional tournament level guy, figure out how to become a true elite amateur.

 

At every level, there's something for you to work on. Somewhere for you to shave strokes. And to me, the only measuring stick to ever use that makes sense is the best players in the world. You will, of course, never get from 14 to elite amateur or pro in a short time, but why would you ever use anything other than the pros as your ideal? Watch them, dissect their games, learn from them. Understand what different conditions mean. What tournament pressure means. What true short-game mastery means. What "owning" different golf shots means.

 

There's nothing like this game. Shoot for the stars. Maybe you'll catch the moon....

 

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments!!

[teckneeklyperfect]

I might have been 20 over if I got lucky, nice post !!!!

[fore_life]

Cool read! I like that magic circle idea, I keep stats for fairways/greens/putts, but it can be misleading at times, so when I play Wed I'll keep updated stats and report back!

[RRFireblade]

Not a fan of the "Circle" concept.

Rather be 20' +/- on the right side of the hole than <10' on the wrong side any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

This is a concept (not exclusive to greens) that I think is one of the biggest differences between Pros and Ams.

[dmblanch]

That's a very good, very realistic assessment of the multiple small ways that a tour player separates himself from the pack. I normally won't read these hole by hole recaps, but in this case it was necessary and useful because it allows you to see where the differences are slowly creeping in. I'm impressed that you didn't fall further behind hitting that 7 hybrid all the time, which you must hit really well. And as you pointed out, he had a bad day, which you need him to have, to stand a chance. Very informative. I'm going to count magic circles in my round this afternoon and see what I see.

[Obee]

[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1410115872' post='10080045']Not a fan of the "Circle" concept.

Rather be 20' +/- on the right side of the hole than <10' on the wrong side any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

This is a concept (not exclusive to greens) that I think is one of the biggest differences between Pros and Ams.[/quote]

The magic circle is a "gross" concept as opposed to a "fine" one. Certainly you can drill down from there and refine it.

I would say that the circle simply moves, such that the pin is rarely in the center of it depending on green contour, trouble/rough proximity, and speed.

Bottom line: I agree with you.

[lumberman2462]

My home club has a Champions Tour Player and an elite level Senior Am. They're the two best players around.

I don't play regularly with either of them but have been lucky enough to play with both.

Here's the deal: They hit their irons close. Distance control is phenomenal.

[Callaway_Golf_Freak]

Great Thread Thanks for Sharing.......

This is what threads on WRX should be more like " NO Bull Sh*t "

Take it Easy, Mike. " Go Play "

[fanch]

awesome post - one of the best things I have read. hope for more like this.

[RRFireblade]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1410116487' post='10080077']
[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1410115872' post='10080045']Not a fan of the "Circle" concept.

Rather be 20' +/- on the right side of the hole than <10' on the wrong side any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

This is a concept (not exclusive to greens) that I think is one of the biggest differences between Pros and Ams.[/quote]

The magic circle is a "gross" concept as opposed to a "fine" one. Certainly you can drill down from there and refine it.

I would say that the circle simply moves, such that the pin is rarely in the center of it depending on green contour, trouble/rough proximity, and speed.

Bottom line: I agree with you.
[/quote]

Personally, I think of most strategic plays in terms of quadrants. That also works for me course wide and there are times when the pin and/or the fairway may not even be in the desired quadrant. Most often, 2 or three quads are no go, maybe one is an acceptable bailout and lastly, the target area.

This is where "stats" are often misleading, IMO, and lead people to believe they are closer to "Pro" than they really are. I may "Miss" half a dozen fairways on a given day and have been exactly where I wanted to be all day.

[Ole3wiggle]

you hit 160 yard 8 irons and 140 yard PWs but cant hit a driver over 260? If thats true, Get that checked out.... You should be 280 EASY if those short iron distances are accurate

[ALIF]

Awesome post. Thanks for taking the time to write it up for us. I really enjoyed reading it!

[Obee]

[quote name='Ole3wiggle' timestamp='1410134987' post='10081355']
you hit 160 yard 8 irons and 140 yard PWs but cant hit a driver over 260? If thats true, Get that checked out.... You should be 280 EASY if those short iron distances are accurate
[/quote]

It's completely true. I hit a low, flat ball with lots of spin. I de-loft my irons and hit them very well, usually. Since I de-loft them, though, that's why I hit hybrids all the way through my 7 and the longest iron I carry is an 8. The extra loft and low, back CG on hybrids fits me perfectly. Also, keep in mind that the shots you are referring to were downwind and/or downhill. With my flat ball flight, I can really hit my irons a long way downhill. Longer than players with a high ball flight, that's for sure. But the trade-off is that I[b] lose[/b] more distance on [b]uphill[/b] shots due to my flat ball flight. Also keep in mind that those iron distance for me are total distance, not carry distance. Here's another example: On our 10th hole, when the ball is in the back left, I will frequently "chase" a 7, 8, or 9-iron to that pin position with a low draw. In addition, the wind usually blows from the the right there, and It's not uncommon at all for me to hit 8-iron when I'm 180 to the back pin in the fall and winter when the greens are firm and 13 on the stimp. I'm playing to carry 8-iron 150 with a turned-down face that "chases" forward two bounces, and then puts on the brakes and goes left to the hole.

Conversely, with the driver, my launch characteristics are simply not ideal. My swing is too "pinchy" for the driver. When my timing is good and my "driver swing" is on and I'm catching the ball flat instead of with my downward attack, then I can hit the driver farther. But in conditions like yesterday, I'm just not long. I carry driver 240 to 260, and when it's wet, I just don't drive the ball long at all. In Scotland and Ireland (I just went on a 10 day trip), though, I'm plenty long. The firm fairways there were perfect for my game. I hit lots of "stinger" 3 and 4-woods off the tee and was regularly hitting them 260 to 280.

To look at it another way: The Champions Tour player I was playing with has a clubhead speed of 108 to 110. I'm about 100, and with non-ideal launch characteristics

Make sense? :-)

[Mike_C]

Nice post.

Tour pros are so good.... Most of them have no real weakness in their games, and their putting is phenomenal.

I have been thinking about this issue this week as the web.com tour is playing River Run CC in Davidson NC, I played in the NC Mid Am there back in 2011 (right when I turned 50), fairly tough course I thought, seemed like tough greens. The winning score was -4 for 54 holes, to make the "cut" (top 60 after two days) was 154. I remember hitting the ball OK, but putted very very poorly. But my claim to fame was I eagled 18 to make the cut right on the number after a day where I think I three putted like 6 times or something....

I've been watching this tournament, the winner was 18 under for 4 rounds, I'm seeing guys pretty much attack this course with little fear,and they played it about 200 yards longer than we did, with probably harder pins. Now, they are showing the leaders, some other guys obviously didn't play so well, but things pretty much like you describe it, distance, accuracy, short game, etc. They are just so good. My game at the time that I can compare, I was finding a way to hit it in play off the tee, and have been a good iron player for many years, but my short game really sucked (and still does) compares to tour level players... I have described my game as I'm a 4 handicap off the tee, a +4 from 180 to 100 yards, and a 10 handicap from 100 yards in.....my game has gone down hill even since then, but I'm working on it.....


Oh, and what Ole3wiggle said, yeah, if you hit your 8 iron 160, you should be hitting it much better off the tee that what you say...

Edit: I see your explanation on your distance, never mind...

[Jc0]

[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1410134894' post='10081345']
[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1410116487' post='10080077']
[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1410115872' post='10080045']Not a fan of the "Circle" concept.

Rather be 20' +/- on the right side of the hole than <10' on the wrong side any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

This is a concept (not exclusive to greens) that I think is one of the biggest differences between Pros and Ams.[/quote]

The magic circle is a "gross" concept as opposed to a "fine" one. Certainly you can drill down from there and refine it.

I would say that the circle simply moves, such that the pin is rarely in the center of it depending on green contour, trouble/rough proximity, and speed.

Bottom line: I agree with you.
[/quote]

Personally, I think of most strategic plays in terms of quadrants. That also works for me course wide and there are times when the pin and/or the fairway may not even be in the desired quadrant. Most often, 2 or three quads are no go, maybe one is an acceptable bailout and lastly, the target area.

This is where "stats" are often misleading, IMO, and lead people to believe they are closer to "Pro" than they really are. I may "Miss" half a dozen fairways on a given day and have been exactly where I wanted to be all day.
[/quote]

I think it more comes from putting stats than a hard rule. If you look at the tour putting stats at about 20 ft the make percentage flattens out, meaning that you essentially have the same chance of making a 20 footer as a 40 footer. Once you get inside 20 ft the make percentage starts increasing almost exponentially. You have a dramatically higher chance of making a 10 footer than a 20 footer compared the difference between a 20 and 30 footer.

[aceofclubs]

Nice post. Sounds like your bunker game is Tour Pro quality. Impressive

[fishstix94]

Very interesting stuff here and a great read! I play some money games with the pro at our club and I find it interesting to compare our rounds.

First off he's a solid golfer, not exactly a tour pro, but he has a few mini tour wins and played on the nationwide for a few years. On the other hand I am a decent golfer, my handicap has been as low as a 1.5 and as high as a 5 in the past few years. I hit the ball fairly long and I'm a pretty solid ball striker. My short game is hot and cold mostly because I don't have time to practice. Most of our matches end up with similar ball striking stats as far as fairways hit and GIR. The difference is he is in that circle more often and he makes a few more of those putts than I do.

So I agree with what you've said! Thanks for taking the time to write this obee!

[hoganswing]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1410110371' post='10079679']
In IsaacBM's "tournament versus recreation golf" thread, Ron Stelton mentioned the "magic circle," which he talks about being a 20 foot circle around the hole in regulation. He says that the pros hit it in the "magic circle" far more often than good amateurs, and I agree 100%.

The magic circle is truly what it's all about. There are many factors that go into what separates each level of player from the next, but that one is the most important on a long term basis. Over one round (which I will show below), it can be overcome by short game or better putting by the amateur, or mediocre putting by the pro, but there is simply no substitute for "hitting the pocket," to borrow a bowling analogy. Not every ball thrown in the pocket in bowling results in a strike, just like not every ball hit in the "magic circle" results in a birdie. Keep hitting the pocket, though, and you're going to make a lot of strikes. Keep hitting it in the magic circle, and you're going to make a lot of birdies on a regular basis--the key to competing at elite amateur or professional golf.

Just yesterday I played a Saturday round at the club with a top Champions Tour player. I've played dozens of rounds with this guy. After playing with him over and over and over, I can tell you some pretty indisputable things about a below-scratch amateur versus a tour pro.

As many of you on the site already know, I'm a competitive amateur. I'm a +0.8 right now, and my low index is usually in the +2 range. Years ago, I was more like a +2.5 to +3.5 for much of the year, but those days are gone. I'm 47 now, and I just hit the ball too short and am constantly battling lingering back and side issues. I was never "long," but I was always "long enough." Now I'm not even "long enough." I can't take advantage of any par 5's if they are over 510 or so, and I just don't have the club head speed anymore to access truly tough pins in true tournament conditions (firm greens).

I can still play this game at a reasonable competitive level, and if you put me inside 140 yards, there isn't a lot that separates my game from a pro’s when I'm healthy and can release through impact.. When I was longer, I could take advantage of that strength (my solid play from inside 140), and would be hitting wedge into quite a few holes every round. Because of that, I was able to hit the ball into the “magic circle” quite frequently. Now, on a longer course, I'm lucky to be inside 140 on any holes except the shortest par 4’s and the par 5’s, which greatly reduces my ability to put it in that magic circle.

I only mention my game for comparison's sake when I play with a Tour Pro. And by the way, I'm comparing myself to a Champions Tour player, and not a regular tour player because I'm 47. If I were 32, I'd use a regular Tour Pro as an example. So let’s get into it!

Here's yesterday's round at Bear Creek Golf Club (7,157 75.7/146). We played all tees back except for two par 4's that were up one tee due to some tee maintenance. Played about 7,100 yards and longer than that, actually, due to how soft and wet the fairways are in the morning in the Inland Empire due to temperatures reaching 100 degrees-plus and them having to water so heavily over-night and in the morning.

I'm going to give a hole-by-hole breakdown of how our round went so that you can see what it's really like to play a Tour Pro. Greens yesterday were running at 10.5ish, but on the bumpy side due to recent top-dressing/punching. All the holes have been filled in with grass, but they are still soft and not the truest.

One other thing before I get into details: We gamble when we play. Yesterday we were a fivesome, and there were multiple team bets and individual bets, including the Champions Tour player playing a Web.com player for some $$$. This particular Champions Tour pro is a grinder. He plays golf. That's what he does. He grinds over 3-foot putts with us and HATES to lose to any of us!! LOL

[b]1) 421 par 4, Very little wind at this time. Course soaking wet. Very little roll.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle. 174 to a back left pin. Hit 7-hybrid (32 degrees) to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 155 to back left pin. Hits 9-iron to 8 feet. BIRDIE. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 1/1, Tour Pro 1/1

[b]2) 424 Par 4.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle.168 to tucked left pin just over huge ridge. I hit 7-hybrid to 20 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

TOUR PRO: Tour Pro hits 3-wood down on right side of fairway. 160 to pin. Hits 8-iron to 12 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 2/2, Tour Pro 2/2

[b]3) 528 par 5 (second shot is uphill and into a breeze. Plays much longer than 528.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle. 4-wood lay-up to left side of fairway. LW from 70 yards to 12 feets. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 3-wood carries center bunker and is 20 yards short of green. Pitches to a foot. Birdie. 2-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 3/3, Tour Pro 3/3

[b]4) 415 par 4. Very difficult driving hole with multiple options.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle, but heeled a bit and short. 164 to tucked right pin. 7-hybrid to left front with big ridge in between ball and hole. Bad first putt and miss the 4-foot par putt. BOGEY. 1-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drives over right fairway bunker. 140 to pin. Misses green right. Chips 4-feet long and makes the par save. 2-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 3 / 4, Tour pro 3 / 4.

[b]5) 472 par 4. A bit downhill on drive. Considerably downhill on approach.[/b]

OBEE: Drive into right rough. 207 to back pin. 4-hybrid into right long rough. Pitch out to 20 feet and 2-putt for bogey. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. 170 to pin. 8-iron just over green in thick rough. Stubs chip a bit and leaves is short. Misses 10 foot par putt. Bogey. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 3 / 5, Tour Pro 3 / 5

[b]6) 152 par 3 (playing 129 today and downwind now). Tiny green. Trouble short and long.[/b]

OBEE: Choke-down, cut PW to six feet. Putt has a lot of break, and I miss it low. Par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: GW onto back fringe. 20 feet. 2-putts for par. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 6, Tour Pro 4 / 6

[b]7) 400 par 4[/b]

OBEE: Drive barely into left rough. 9-iron from 151 to 25 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 3-wood down middle. PW to 10 feet. Lips out birdie putt. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 7, Tour Pro 5 / 7

[b]8) 177 par 3, playing 168 actual. Down-wind.[/b]

OBEE: 8-iron that I pull left into a deep swale. LW pitch to 6 feet. Make the par save: 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 8-iron to 10 feet. Lips out again. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 8, Tour Pro 6 / 8

[b]9) 539 par 5:[/b]

OBEE: Drive into left fairway bunker. 7-hybrid lay-up to 141. 9-iron short and in bunker. LW bunker shot to 4 feet. Save par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive into left fairway bunker up. 9-iron lay-up to 140. PW to 30 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER.

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 9, Tour Pro 6 / 9.

[b]10) 432 par 4[/b]

OBEE: Drive down middle. 8-iron from 165 to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 3-wood down middle. 8-iron from 170 to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 5/ 10, Tour Pro 7 / 10

[b]11) 555 par 5.[/b]

OBEE: Horrible drive into left rough. 320 from pin. Downhill lie, ball nestled down. Horrible 6-hybrid lay-up attempt that I only advance 100 yards. 207 to front left pin out of rough. 4-hybrid that I knock on front-right of green 30 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down right side, which shortens the hole. 3-wood that he blocks right into water hazard. Drops and pitches on to 18 feet and 2 putts for bogey. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 5 / 11, Tour Pro 7 / 11

[b]12) 207 par 3. Into wind and uphill with deep bunkers short.[/b]

OBEE: 3-hybrid just a bit short into deep bunker. LW bunker shot to 3 feet. Make the putt to save par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: Hybrid to 8 feet. Misses the putt and settles for par. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 5 / 12, Tour Pro 8 / 12

[b]13) 352 par 4. Strong crosswind.[/b]

OBEE: 4-wood down middle. GW from 109 to 12 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: Driver down middle. LW from 50 yards to 15 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 6 / 13, Tour Pro 9 / 13

[b]14) 543 par 5 (plays uphill and into a 10 – 15 mph wind).[/b]

OBEE: Drive down middle. 4-wood lay-up to 107 yards. Choke-down, cut PW to 3 feet. Make the birdie. 1-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 3-wood up near green, but has an awkward stance and ball is in rough. Hits great pitch to 7 feet. Lips out the putt for birdie and settles for par. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 7 / 14, Tour Pro 10 / 14

[b]15) 421 par 4. Upill and into 10 – 15 mph wind.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down right-center of fairway, but I miss it a bit. 205 to front pin. 3-hybrid to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. Comes over the top on his approach and pulls it into left bunker with downhill lie to downhill pin. Hits an amazing shot, but he still has 10 feet for par. Misses the par and makes bogey. 1-OVER

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 15, Tour Pro 10 / 15

[b]16) 222 par 3 downhill, with strong wind down and left.[/b]

OBEE: 4-hybrid that I whiff and hit in front bunker, 30 yards short. GW to 10 feet. Miss the par save. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 5-iron misses green slightly left. Chips up and saves par. 1-OVER

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 16, Tour Pro 10 / 16

[b]17) 439 par 4. Wind down and across from right.[/b]

OBEE: Pull-hook drive into left rough. Blast 4-wood from 230 into front bunker. Knock bunker shot to 2-feet. Par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. 9-iron from 150 to 15 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-OVER

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 17, Tour Pro 11 / 17

[b]18) 432 par 4 downwind.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down middle. PW from 140 to tough front pin to 8 feet. Miss the birdie and tap in for a 2-OVER 74 on a course rated 75.7/146.

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. GW from 130 to 12 feet. Misses the birdie and taps in for a 1-OVER 73.

Final “Magic Circle” Numbers: Obee 9 / 18, Tour Pro 12 / 18.

So there you have it. Keep in mind that the round was pretty typical in terms of ball-striking. The Tour Pro hit the ball about like he usually does, but yesterday he maximized his score. Hit hit one ball in the water, and he made [i][b]absolutely nothing[/b][/i] in terms of birdie putts. Based upon his ball-striking yesterday, I would expect his scoring to range from 66 to 73. He scored about as poorly as he possibly could have scored. He just made nothing. He’s actually a very, very good putter, but the greens were a bit bumpy, and they weren’t falling for him.

Based upon my ball-striking, I would expect my score to range from a low of 69 to a high of 78 with that round yesterday. I made a couple nice par saves, but I also made [i][b]zero[/b][/i] birdie putts in the 6 to 18 foot range, and I had quite a few of them.

Final stats:

OBEE: 12/18 GIR, 9/14 fairways, 32 putts, 9 / 18 magic circle, 3 / 4 sand saves, 1 / 2 up-and-down.

TOUR PRO: 13 / 18 GIR, 13 / 14 Fairways, 32 putts, 12 / 18 magic circle, 0 / 1 sand saves, 2 / 3 up-and-down.

So make of that what you will. I play with this guy a lot. Our standard bet is that he plays from the back tees (the tees we played yesterday) at 7,157, and I play one set up from the gold tees 6,874. He gives me 2 a side when we play that way, and over the last 2.5 years in which we have played several dozen rounds, I would say that he is slightly (55/45?) ahead in the bet. If we always played the black tees together as we did yesterday, I would ask him for another shot on the front, for a total of 5 shots. I would take that bet as “fair” whether we played stroke play or match play due to my overall “steadiness” as a player and the fact that I don’t “blow-up” very often (I rarely make double-bogey or worse).

So that’s approximately a five shot difference in our games on a regular basis. Where do those five shots come from?

1) He’s both longer and (a bit) straighter than I am off the tee, and even though he’s 55 years old, he’s getting longer. He’s longer today than he was three years ago according to him. He’s fitter, stronger, and in overall amazing shape with a well-tuned driver for his swing. He hits the ball in the 270 to 290 range on a regular basis. I hit the ball 245 to 265. That’s a BIG difference.
2) He’s a much more consistent putter than I am, especially from “where it counts”: 4 – 10 feet. (I can putt well from time-to-time, but I have no consistency from week to week, month to month).
3) He’s a much better and more consistent mid to long-iron/hybrid player than I am
4) He’s a much, much better and more consistent fairway wood player than I am (he can hit the ball much higher than I can, when necessary, for instance)
5) He’s a slightly better short iron (PW GW SW LW) player than I am
6) He has a moderately better “normal” short game than I do (basic bunker shots, basic pitch and chip shots)
7) He’s significantly better at short game “specialty shots” than I am (very difficult bunker shots, very difficult lies to very difficult pins, etc). For an amateur, I am quite skilled in that area—certainly better than most “scratch” golfers. He is, though, one of the best on tour at those types of shots. This isn’t a big deal, though, due to the fact that a good player can sometimes go several rounds without ever encountering a shot that requires any type of special talent. When you do have one of those shots, though, it sure helps (and saves strokes) to be an expert.
8) He has a far more stable “mental game” and routine than I do. He simply does the same thing over and over and over. His routine is a beauty to behold, as is his demeanor and steadiness on the course.

So there you have it. The five(ish) strokes per round come from all of those areas combined. Sometimes he beats me by 7, 8, even 9 strokes. Sometimes he beats me be only one stroke. Sometimes (quite rarely), I beat him straight up. Overall, though, it’s about five strokes.

One last thing: The tougher the conditions get, the more his superior skills and length will increase the separation in our games to six, seven or even eight shots on average. Two factors play the biggest role in that separation: Green firmness and rough length, with the more important of those two being green firmness. When the greens get firm, the pros ability to stick their 7-irons close far exceeds mine (and most competitive amateurs) due to their higher club head speed and superior launch characteristics/consistency that allows them to hold greens from tough lies and attack pins that I have to play away from.

We can learn a lot by comparing ourselves to the pros, but we have to be realistic when doing so. Golf is made up of levels. Figure out what level you are at and figure out a way to get to the next level. If you're a "mid-capper" (10 to 15 handicap), figure out how to get to "low handicap" (4 to 9). If you're a low handicapper, figure out how to get to "around scratch" (1 to 3). If you're "around scratch," figure out how to get to club scratch (+ 1 to 1). If you're a club scratch, figure out how to get your game to local/regional tournament level (+ 1 to +3). If you're a local/regional tournament level guy, figure out how to become a true elite amateur.

At every level, there's something for you to work on. Somewhere for you to shave strokes. And to me, the only measuring stick to ever use that makes sense is the best players in the world. You will, of course, never get from 14 to elite amateur or pro in a short time, but why would you ever use anything other than the pros as your ideal? Watch them, dissect their games, learn from them. Understand what different conditions mean. What tournament pressure means. What true short-game mastery means. What "owning" different golf shots means.

There's nothing like this game. Shoot for the stars. Maybe you'll catch the moon....

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments!!
[/quote]

Thanks for sharing. And that begs the million dollar question...why are they better?

[dmblanch]

Okay Obee, I counted magic circles in my round today. First I want to say that by magic circle, folks should know that you're NOT saying this is the circle that they should somehow aim for. This is a circle that happens after the fact, it is the "makeable birdie range circle" and it is by virtue of the fact that the Pro's get in this 20 foot circle so much and so consistently that they are able to make so many birdies and keep their scores so low. Outside of 20 feet, you're simply not going to make the putts. Inside the 20 feet and you've got a shot. So it's a much better barometer than GIR for example.

I played a 6500 yard par 71 course from the tips, so it's short. I can reach all the par 5's with irons. I'm a 2.3 right now and its rating is 70.0 and a slope of 131. I shot a 71. Five birdies, three bogeys and a double on a par three. So on the surface most people would say I had a pretty good day. Wrong!

I didn't hit my scoring irons well at all and my chipping was iffy. I was not happy and this is reflected accurately by the fact that I only hit the [b]"magic circle" 7/18 times[/b] and 4 of those times were on the par 5's that I reached in 2 so I was PUTTING into the magic circle from like 30 feet away! (To my credit I guess you could say I had four eagle putts between 20 and 30 feet, but I missed them all.) So other than the fives, I had only 3 magic circle approaches on par 3's and 4's. I made one of three birdies and it was a three footer.

I would have gotten my clock cleaned by any reasonable player, the par fives only saved what should have been about a 78. It felt like a 78, my ball striking was more like a 78. Now if I look at my GIR, I was 14 of 18, which may seem impressive to some. That's not representative of the way I played. The truth,was that I was a LONG way from the pin most of the time as a result of poor ball striking and I had no chance at birdies. Magic circles are a very good way to accurately measure the health of your game tee to green.

On an unrelated note, I see you're from Riverside and I think the fastest greens I've ever played were at an otherwise unremarkable course in Riverside called Canyon Crest Country club. Is it just me or are the greens at CCCC known by others as wickedly fast?

[RedWings1]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1410116487' post='10080077']
[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1410115872' post='10080045']Not a fan of the "Circle" concept.

Rather be 20' +/- on the right side of the hole than <10' on the wrong side any day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

This is a concept (not exclusive to greens) that I think is one of the biggest differences between Pros and Ams.[/quote]

The magic circle is a "gross" concept as opposed to a "fine" one. Certainly you can drill down from there and refine it.

I would say that the circle simply moves, such that the pin is rarely in the center of it depending on green contour, trouble/rough proximity, and speed.

Bottom line: I agree with you.
[/quote]

+1+1

Both are spot on!

[RedWings1]

[quote name='Ole3wiggle' timestamp='1410134987' post='10081355']
you hit 160 yard 8 irons and 140 yard PWs but cant hit a driver over 260? If thats true, Get that checked out.... You should be 280 EASY if those short iron distances are accurate
[/quote]

I totally agree with this. I too hit my (full shot) 8 iron 160 and PW 135-140. My avaerage Driver SS is around 110-115 and usually hit it out 285-300. Mybe his driver swing is drastically different than his iron swing.

Obee, This is a great thread - Nice work!

[Strömsborg]

Excellent post.
I'm especially intrigued by your paragraph about levels of play. I've never thought about it that way. I guess it's hard for the player himself to identify the areas to improve, there's to much feelings. A coach that know your game and can look from the outside would certainly help.

Last autumn I was close to the "around scratch" category and got my index to 3.1 before the winter came. A few more competitions would have got me even lower. This season have been a disappointment and I'm now just a "low handicapper" with an index of 3.9.
My bad play through this summer and in particular my driving (only 37% of fairways hit) forced me to go back to the drawing board and take my first lessons since I was a teenager. The thing now is to close to club face at the top and get a shallower angle of attack to make it easier to hit the long clubs.
I can only hope I've correctly identified the area I need to improve and that the changes can bring me to the next level and help me stay there.

[Beastmode Broker]

great thread OBEE ... LONG .... but I hung in there
to those hug up on his distances; best quote I ever heard from a good buddy of mine (not sure where he got it, BUT) ...

when asked how far a certain club goes, the answer: 7 feet from the pin
and soooo true

yes we all have "stock yardages" from perfect lie's/conditions, but how often is the shot you face exactly this??? RARELY IMO
I can hit a PW anywhere from 60-160 yards ... and most good players can too
this weekend I played w 3 really good players (ranging from + to a 4 index)
On an island green 143 yard par 3, all 4 of us hit a different club from the tee

[spider]

Great thread Obee. I really enjoyed the account. This should be under Instruction & Academy forum as well. Keep up the great threads!

[Emthree]

Good read, just out of curiosity, how did the web.com player do?

[atkinsinc]

Fabulous post my friend. I have played many rounds [b]with[/b] people that say they are +1 that shoot in the 80's and [b]against[/b] people in friendly tournaments that say they are around 16 and shoot low-70's.

I am glad I took the time to read all of it. Thank you for your time my friend, as many can benefit from this.

[Cfd74]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1410110371' post='10079679']
In IsaacBM's "tournament versus recreation golf" thread, Ron Stelton mentioned the "magic circle," which he talks about being a 20 foot circle around the hole in regulation. He says that the pros hit it in the "magic circle" far more often than good amateurs, and I agree 100%.

The magic circle is truly what it's all about. There are many factors that go into what separates each level of player from the next, but that one is the most important on a long term basis. Over one round (which I will show below), it can be overcome by short game or better putting by the amateur, or mediocre putting by the pro, but there is simply no substitute for "hitting the pocket," to borrow a bowling analogy. Not every ball thrown in the pocket in bowling results in a strike, just like not every ball hit in the "magic circle" results in a birdie. Keep hitting the pocket, though, and you're going to make a lot of strikes. Keep hitting it in the magic circle, and you're going to make a lot of birdies on a regular basis--the key to competing at elite amateur or professional golf.

Just yesterday I played a Saturday round at the club with a top Champions Tour player. I've played dozens of rounds with this guy. After playing with him over and over and over, I can tell you some pretty indisputable things about a below-scratch amateur versus a tour pro.

As many of you on the site already know, I'm a competitive amateur. I'm a +0.8 right now, and my low index is usually in the +2 range. Years ago, I was more like a +2.5 to +3.5 for much of the year, but those days are gone. I'm 47 now, and I just hit the ball too short and am constantly battling lingering back and side issues. I was never "long," but I was always "long enough." Now I'm not even "long enough." I can't take advantage of any par 5's if they are over 510 or so, and I just don't have the club head speed anymore to access truly tough pins in true tournament conditions (firm greens).

I can still play this game at a reasonable competitive level, and if you put me inside 140 yards, there isn't a lot that separates my game from a pro’s when I'm healthy and can release through impact.. When I was longer, I could take advantage of that strength (my solid play from inside 140), and would be hitting wedge into quite a few holes every round. Because of that, I was able to hit the ball into the “magic circle” quite frequently. Now, on a longer course, I'm lucky to be inside 140 on any holes except the shortest par 4’s and the par 5’s, which greatly reduces my ability to put it in that magic circle.

I only mention my game for comparison's sake when I play with a Tour Pro. And by the way, I'm comparing myself to a Champions Tour player, and not a regular tour player because I'm 47. If I were 32, I'd use a regular Tour Pro as an example. So let’s get into it!

Here's yesterday's round at Bear Creek Golf Club (7,157 75.7/146). We played all tees back except for two par 4's that were up one tee due to some tee maintenance. Played about 7,100 yards and longer than that, actually, due to how soft and wet the fairways are in the morning in the Inland Empire due to temperatures reaching 100 degrees-plus and them having to water so heavily over-night and in the morning.

I'm going to give a hole-by-hole breakdown of how our round went so that you can see what it's really like to play a Tour Pro. Greens yesterday were running at 10.5ish, but on the bumpy side due to recent top-dressing/punching. All the holes have been filled in with grass, but they are still soft and not the truest.

One other thing before I get into details: We gamble when we play. Yesterday we were a fivesome, and there were multiple team bets and individual bets, including the Champions Tour player playing a Web.com player for some $$$. This particular Champions Tour pro is a grinder. He plays golf. That's what he does. He grinds over 3-foot putts with us and HATES to lose to any of us!! LOL

[b]1) 421 par 4, Very little wind at this time. Course soaking wet. Very little roll.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle. 174 to a back left pin. Hit 7-hybrid (32 degrees) to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 155 to back left pin. Hits 9-iron to 8 feet. BIRDIE. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 1/1, Tour Pro 1/1

[b]2) 424 Par 4.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle.168 to tucked left pin just over huge ridge. I hit 7-hybrid to 20 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

TOUR PRO: Tour Pro hits 3-wood down on right side of fairway. 160 to pin. Hits 8-iron to 12 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 2/2, Tour Pro 2/2

[b]3) 528 par 5 (second shot is uphill and into a breeze. Plays much longer than 528.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle. 4-wood lay-up to left side of fairway. LW from 70 yards to 12 feets. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 3-wood carries center bunker and is 20 yards short of green. Pitches to a foot. Birdie. 2-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 3/3, Tour Pro 3/3

[b]4) 415 par 4. Very difficult driving hole with multiple options.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down the middle, but heeled a bit and short. 164 to tucked right pin. 7-hybrid to left front with big ridge in between ball and hole. Bad first putt and miss the 4-foot par putt. BOGEY. 1-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drives over right fairway bunker. 140 to pin. Misses green right. Chips 4-feet long and makes the par save. 2-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 3 / 4, Tour pro 3 / 4.

[b]5) 472 par 4. A bit downhill on drive. Considerably downhill on approach.[/b]

OBEE: Drive into right rough. 207 to back pin. 4-hybrid into right long rough. Pitch out to 20 feet and 2-putt for bogey. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. 170 to pin. 8-iron just over green in thick rough. Stubs chip a bit and leaves is short. Misses 10 foot par putt. Bogey. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 3 / 5, Tour Pro 3 / 5

[b]6) 152 par 3 (playing 129 today and downwind now). Tiny green. Trouble short and long.[/b]

OBEE: Choke-down, cut PW to six feet. Putt has a lot of break, and I miss it low. Par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: GW onto back fringe. 20 feet. 2-putts for par. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 6, Tour Pro 4 / 6

[b]7) 400 par 4[/b]

OBEE: Drive barely into left rough. 9-iron from 151 to 25 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 3-wood down middle. PW to 10 feet. Lips out birdie putt. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 7, Tour Pro 5 / 7

[b]8) 177 par 3, playing 168 actual. Down-wind.[/b]

OBEE: 8-iron that I pull left into a deep swale. LW pitch to 6 feet. Make the par save: 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 8-iron to 10 feet. Lips out again. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 8, Tour Pro 6 / 8

[b]9) 539 par 5:[/b]

OBEE: Drive into left fairway bunker. 7-hybrid lay-up to 141. 9-iron short and in bunker. LW bunker shot to 4 feet. Save par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive into left fairway bunker up. 9-iron lay-up to 140. PW to 30 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER.

Magic Circle: Obee 4 / 9, Tour Pro 6 / 9.

[b]10) 432 par 4[/b]

OBEE: Drive down middle. 8-iron from 165 to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 3-wood down middle. 8-iron from 170 to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-UNDER

Magic Circle: Obee 5/ 10, Tour Pro 7 / 10

[b]11) 555 par 5.[/b]

OBEE: Horrible drive into left rough. 320 from pin. Downhill lie, ball nestled down. Horrible 6-hybrid lay-up attempt that I only advance 100 yards. 207 to front left pin out of rough. 4-hybrid that I knock on front-right of green 30 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down right side, which shortens the hole. 3-wood that he blocks right into water hazard. Drops and pitches on to 18 feet and 2 putts for bogey. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 5 / 11, Tour Pro 7 / 11

[b]12) 207 par 3. Into wind and uphill with deep bunkers short.[/b]

OBEE: 3-hybrid just a bit short into deep bunker. LW bunker shot to 3 feet. Make the putt to save par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: Hybrid to 8 feet. Misses the putt and settles for par. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 5 / 12, Tour Pro 8 / 12

[b]13) 352 par 4. Strong crosswind.[/b]

OBEE: 4-wood down middle. GW from 109 to 12 feet. 2 putts for par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: Driver down middle. LW from 50 yards to 15 feet. 2 putts for par. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 6 / 13, Tour Pro 9 / 13

[b]14) 543 par 5 (plays uphill and into a 10 – 15 mph wind).[/b]

OBEE: Drive down middle. 4-wood lay-up to 107 yards. Choke-down, cut PW to 3 feet. Make the birdie. 1-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down the middle. 3-wood up near green, but has an awkward stance and ball is in rough. Hits great pitch to 7 feet. Lips out the putt for birdie and settles for par. EVEN PAR

Magic Circle: Obee 7 / 14, Tour Pro 10 / 14

[b]15) 421 par 4. Upill and into 10 – 15 mph wind.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down right-center of fairway, but I miss it a bit. 205 to front pin. 3-hybrid to 18 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-OVER

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. Comes over the top on his approach and pulls it into left bunker with downhill lie to downhill pin. Hits an amazing shot, but he still has 10 feet for par. Misses the par and makes bogey. 1-OVER

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 15, Tour Pro 10 / 15

[b]16) 222 par 3 downhill, with strong wind down and left.[/b]

OBEE: 4-hybrid that I whiff and hit in front bunker, 30 yards short. GW to 10 feet. Miss the par save. 2-OVER

TOUR PRO: 5-iron misses green slightly left. Chips up and saves par. 1-OVER

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 16, Tour Pro 10 / 16

[b]17) 439 par 4. Wind down and across from right.[/b]

OBEE: Pull-hook drive into left rough. Blast 4-wood from 230 into front bunker. Knock bunker shot to 2-feet. Par. 2-OVER.

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. 9-iron from 150 to 15 feet. 2 putts for par. 1-OVER

Magic Circle: Obee 8 / 17, Tour Pro 11 / 17

[b]18) 432 par 4 downwind.[/b]

OBEE: Drive down middle. PW from 140 to tough front pin to 8 feet. Miss the birdie and tap in for a 2-OVER 74 on a course rated 75.7/146.

TOUR PRO: Drive down middle. GW from 130 to 12 feet. Misses the birdie and taps in for a 1-OVER 73.

Final “Magic Circle” Numbers: Obee 9 / 18, Tour Pro 12 / 18.

So there you have it. Keep in mind that the round was pretty typical in terms of ball-striking. The Tour Pro hit the ball about like he usually does, but yesterday he maximized his score. Hit hit one ball in the water, and he made [i][b]absolutely nothing[/b][/i] in terms of birdie putts. Based upon his ball-striking yesterday, I would expect his scoring to range from 66 to 73. He scored about as poorly as he possibly could have scored. He just made nothing. He’s actually a very, very good putter, but the greens were a bit bumpy, and they weren’t falling for him.

Based upon my ball-striking, I would expect my score to range from a low of 69 to a high of 78 with that round yesterday. I made a couple nice par saves, but I also made [i][b]zero[/b][/i] birdie putts in the 6 to 18 foot range, and I had quite a few of them.

Final stats:

OBEE: 12/18 GIR, 9/14 fairways, 32 putts, 9 / 18 magic circle, 3 / 4 sand saves, 1 / 2 up-and-down.

TOUR PRO: 13 / 18 GIR, 13 / 14 Fairways, 32 putts, 12 / 18 magic circle, 0 / 1 sand saves, 2 / 3 up-and-down.

So make of that what you will. I play with this guy a lot. Our standard bet is that he plays from the back tees (the tees we played yesterday) at 7,157, and I play one set up from the gold tees 6,874. He gives me 2 a side when we play that way, and over the last 2.5 years in which we have played several dozen rounds, I would say that he is slightly (55/45?) ahead in the bet. If we always played the black tees together as we did yesterday, I would ask him for another shot on the front, for a total of 5 shots. I would take that bet as “fair” whether we played stroke play or match play due to my overall “steadiness” as a player and the fact that I don’t “blow-up” very often (I rarely make double-bogey or worse).

So that’s approximately a five shot difference in our games on a regular basis. Where do those five shots come from?

1) He’s both longer and (a bit) straighter than I am off the tee, and even though he’s 55 years old, he’s getting longer. He’s longer today than he was three years ago according to him. He’s fitter, stronger, and in overall amazing shape with a well-tuned driver for his swing. He hits the ball in the 270 to 290 range on a regular basis. I hit the ball 245 to 265. That’s a BIG difference.
2) He’s a much more consistent putter than I am, especially from “where it counts”: 4 – 10 feet. (I can putt well from time-to-time, but I have no consistency from week to week, month to month).
3) He’s a much better and more consistent mid to long-iron/hybrid player than I am
4) He’s a much, much better and more consistent fairway wood player than I am (he can hit the ball much higher than I can, when necessary, for instance)
5) He’s a slightly better short iron (PW GW SW LW) player than I am
6) He has a moderately better “normal” short game than I do (basic bunker shots, basic pitch and chip shots)
7) He’s significantly better at short game “specialty shots” than I am (very difficult bunker shots, very difficult lies to very difficult pins, etc). For an amateur, I am quite skilled in that area—certainly better than most “scratch” golfers. He is, though, one of the best on tour at those types of shots. This isn’t a big deal, though, due to the fact that a good player can sometimes go several rounds without ever encountering a shot that requires any type of special talent. When you do have one of those shots, though, it sure helps (and saves strokes) to be an expert.
8) He has a far more stable “mental game” and routine than I do. He simply does the same thing over and over and over. His routine is a beauty to behold, as is his demeanor and steadiness on the course.

So there you have it. The five(ish) strokes per round come from all of those areas combined. Sometimes he beats me by 7, 8, even 9 strokes. Sometimes he beats me be only one stroke. Sometimes (quite rarely), I beat him straight up. Overall, though, it’s about five strokes.

One last thing: The tougher the conditions get, the more his superior skills and length will increase the separation in our games to six, seven or even eight shots on average. Two factors play the biggest role in that separation: Green firmness and rough length, with the more important of those two being green firmness. When the greens get firm, the pros ability to stick their 7-irons close far exceeds mine (and most competitive amateurs) due to their higher club head speed and superior launch characteristics/consistency that allows them to hold greens from tough lies and attack pins that I have to play away from.

We can learn a lot by comparing ourselves to the pros, but we have to be realistic when doing so. Golf is made up of levels. Figure out what level you are at and figure out a way to get to the next level. If you're a "mid-capper" (10 to 15 handicap), figure out how to get to "low handicap" (4 to 9). If you're a low handicapper, figure out how to get to "around scratch" (1 to 3). If you're "around scratch," figure out how to get to club scratch (+ 1 to 1). If you're a club scratch, figure out how to get your game to local/regional tournament level (+ 1 to +3). If you're a local/regional tournament level guy, figure out how to become a true elite amateur.

At every level, there's something for you to work on. Somewhere for you to shave strokes. And to me, the only measuring stick to ever use that makes sense is the best players in the world. You will, of course, never get from 14 to elite amateur or pro in a short time, but why would you ever use anything other than the pros as your ideal? Watch them, dissect their games, learn from them. Understand what different conditions mean. What tournament pressure means. What true short-game mastery means. What "owning" different golf shots means.

There's nothing like this game. Shoot for the stars. Maybe you'll catch the moon....

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments!!
[/quote]

Really enjoyed the write up. Sounds like we play a very similar game. I keep it in front of me but struggle on the 7000+ tournament layouts. I see you are playing several hybrids. Curious as to what kind of hybrids you play? Driver and shaft combo too? I currently have the 910 Titleist 24 and 21 degree. Love them. I carry 6 iron on down. I am seriously considering another hybrid deeper as I just hit them so much better than my mid to longer irons.

Frank

[url="http://www.fairwaysndreamsgolf.com"]http://www.fairwaysndreamsgolf.com[/url]

[Free swingr]

Good write up OP. I would just add a couple things...

First and foremost is the mental approach from a tour player to a scratch player. In most cases the tour player is head and shoulders better than the scratch player at the mental game. I know a lot of scratch players that get a couple under par and begin to try to hold on. They just try to get into the clubhouse without dropping any shots. A tour player gets a couple under par and keeps the pedal to the metal trying to make as many more birdies as possible. A tour players mental approach is generally so much better than your average scratch player. Not just in the above way either. Tour players approach every shot and every situation better than your local scratch player. As your amateur gets more and more accomplished (winning big national amateur events) the gap in mental game shrinks between pro and scratch player. I would venture to say that most "weekend warriors" that just play golf to have fun have no idea how good a top 50 in the world player is mentally. Hell a lot scratch players probably don't either. Those guys are fearless.

Very good post OP.

[DavePelz4]

Obee...thanks for sharing and a well played round. I have to smile and say congrats for sharing that you play a 7 hybrid. Too many people in the various threads call out players using higher lofted hybrids and you've truly proved that you have the right set of clubs that fits your game.

Thanks for the story and the honesty!

[Pigems]

Great read sir, thanks for sharing it with us