Jim Venetos golf swing?

[Jimvenetos]

"Thanks all" for the active debate, I appreciate you all taking the time to chime in on what I teach and I appreciate your thoughtful and in depth analysis of the few videos of mine that you've seen. I've tried my best to answer your questions and shed some clarity on what I understand about the golf swing that I have been teaching for 20 years. This technique is an example of "you won't believe until you experience it" and for that I understand why many of you are so confused and put off by my beliefs. I truly wish you all the best of luck in your pursuit of playing great golf.

[bph7]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725930' post='10116301']
"Thanks all" for the active debate, I appreciate you all taking the time to chime in on what I teach and I appreciate your thoughtful and in depth analysis of the few videos of mine that you've seen. I've tried my best to answer your questions and shed some clarity on what I understand about the golf swing that I have been teaching for 20 years. This technique is an example of "you won't believe until you experience it" and for that I understand why many of you are so confused and put off by my beliefs. I truly wish you all the best of luck in your pursuit of playing great golf.
[/quote]

So you won't post a driver swing?

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1410725734' post='10116283']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Now he's saying you may hit it farther if you shift your weight ... not what you were saying earlier. So your LDs of 390 yards with a range of 7 yards ... either produce some verified video of you at the qualifier WITH YOUR SWING or lose the braggadocio. Do you think guys on the PGA tour hit it the same every single time ?
[/quote]

Does hitting it farther equate to power when you hit the next one shorter? No, I'll take consistently long any day. Sorry I don't have video of the l.d. event but maybe i'll swing by a launch monitor and get you some results.

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410726167' post='10116313']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725930' post='10116301']
"Thanks all" for the active debate, I appreciate you all taking the time to chime in on what I teach and I appreciate your thoughtful and in depth analysis of the few videos of mine that you've seen. I've tried my best to answer your questions and shed some clarity on what I understand about the golf swing that I have been teaching for 20 years. This technique is an example of "you won't believe until you experience it" and for that I understand why many of you are so confused and put off by my beliefs. I truly wish you all the best of luck in your pursuit of playing great golf.
[/quote]

So you won't post a driver swing?
[/quote]

Already did.

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410725784' post='10116285']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Can you post a video of your driver swing?

Also, I am not saying you are wrong necessarily, just that I still can't tell whether you saying saying this method is the most powerful, or just a powerful way to swing that will be most consistent for many. You said the first one originally, and when that was questioned you started backtracking. People on this board are very skeptical when instructors make very broad pronouncements but then try to change their views when challenged.
[/quote]

I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight.

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1410725734' post='10116283']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Now he's saying you may hit it farther if you shift your weight ... not what you were saying earlier. So your LDs of 390 yards with a range of 7 yards ... either produce some verified video of you at the qualifier WITH YOUR SWING or lose the braggadocio. Do you think guys on the PGA tour hit it the same every single time ?
[/quote]

Ok, lefty, post some video of your swing for my analysis please.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410726338' post='10116329']
[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1410725734' post='10116283']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Now he's saying you may hit it farther if you shift your weight ... not what you were saying earlier. So your LDs of 390 yards with a range of 7 yards ... either produce some verified video of you at the qualifier WITH YOUR SWING or lose the braggadocio. Do you think guys on the PGA tour hit it the same every single time ?
[/quote]

Does hitting it farther equate to power when you hit the next one shorter? No, I'll take consistently long any day. Sorry I don't have video of the l.d. event but maybe i'll swing by a launch monitor and get you some results.
[/quote]

In long-driving, it doesn't matter if your long one is in the grid. Thanks, look forward to it ... in the meantime, how about a true FO driver swing from Chris Baingo ?

[craniac24]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410726507' post='10116335']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410725784' post='10116285']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Can you post a video of your driver swing?

Also, I am not saying you are wrong necessarily, just that I still can't tell whether you saying saying this method is the most powerful, or just a powerful way to swing that will be most consistent for many. You said the first one originally, and when that was questioned you started backtracking. People on this board are very skeptical when instructors make very broad pronouncements but then try to change their views when challenged.
[/quote]

I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight.
[/quote]

I would assume that you'd agree that this theory doesn't apply to hitting a baseball.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725588' post='10116275']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1410725125' post='10116253']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410722363' post='10116075']
You'll notice in all the pics, the players plant weight on one foot to support the strike. Now the difference is that in all these pics the sport requires movement to follow the moving ball or the moving opponent, but in golf the ball doesn't move so we have the luxury of establishing the weight plant in the set up to support the strike. Ali and Bruce Lee didn't shift their weight to punch, they planted on a foot then struck. A hockey player doesn't shift his weight on a slap shot, that's why they're on one skate. Federer and Djokovich don't shift their weight to hit their one handed ground strokes, they plant one foot then swing. Do you shift your weight when using an ax or a hammer, throwing a frisbee, shooting pool, throwing a dart? Remember, golf requires both power and precision, so if you could find a swing that gave you ample power and precision by not moving your weight wouldn't you think it has some merit? And yes, I can lift my back foot off the ground and hit the ball far but obviously that requires more athleticism than is necessary.
[/quote]

What do you think those guys did before those pictures.....? They shifted to the other side, so that they could shift their weight back. If you don't go back, you can't shift forward. Even centered pivots have a substantial amount of pressure shifting back in the backswing. You can't compare throwing a dart to the golf swing... That requires no power. Try swinging an ax without shifting your weight and get back to me how that goes. To rotate properly to enable sufficient power in either golf or chopping wood, you're going to need to shift your weight. Just because there's no lateral movement doesn't mean shift isn't occuring.

Oh and if you're going to in passing say you hit 5 balls 390 in the grid in a re-max event when you had a 118 mph SS with a normal driver and say you did it in converses, no one is going to take you seriously.

Lol about throwing out Jason Day or Tiger as somehow reasons against a modern swing. I don't care if you have the most perfect motion the world has ever seen .If you hit 500 balls a day for 20 years, you're going to get back pain too. Just like how I squat with form that people fawn over, yet sometimes stuff hurts. Parts wear down. Left shoulder is equipped to handle the golf swing but the spine isn't? Here's a good comparison. Your spine:your shoulder as ft knox:library. The shoulder is the most mobile joint of the body. If you're going to say something can handle stress, it's absolutely not the shoulder.
[/quote]

Well you can tell that to the USC bio-kinesioligist that found my swing to bio-mechanically sound and not putting stress on the 3/4 rotating socket that is in your shoulder. My 118 ss is with my 45 inch driver, I have never checked it with my long driver. And, yes, I did it in chuck's. Don't care if you believe me, not here to sell you anything, just reporting the facts champ.
[/quote]

That's the thing though, adding 3 inches to your driver isn't going to magically at 20+ MPH of SS.

Kinesiology is pseudo-science. This is noted in many research studies. Show me an orthopod or a physical therapist that says what your boy in academia does and I'll give you some cred. Very similar to chiropractory, lots of money changes hands, lot of words exchanged, little physiological change.

[bph7]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410726507' post='10116335']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410725784' post='10116285']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Can you post a video of your driver swing?

Also, I am not saying you are wrong necessarily, just that I still can't tell whether you saying saying this method is the most powerful, or just a powerful way to swing that will be most consistent for many. You said the first one originally, and when that was questioned you started backtracking. People on this board are very skeptical when instructors make very broad pronouncements but then try to change their views when challenged.
[/quote]

I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight.
[/quote]

Where are you getting this "one out of 6" from? For the record, I actually do think your method might have some merit for the standard OTT hacker/slicer who is hopeless, I just don't think its more powerful and certainly don't think its the best for those who have any talent.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='craniac24' timestamp='1410726783' post='10116371']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410726507' post='10116335']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410725784' post='10116285']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Can you post a video of your driver swing?

Also, I am not saying you are wrong necessarily, just that I still can't tell whether you saying saying this method is the most powerful, or just a powerful way to swing that will be most consistent for many. You said the first one originally, and when that was questioned you started backtracking. People on this board are very skeptical when instructors make very broad pronouncements but then try to change their views when challenged.
[/quote]

I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight.
[/quote]

I would assume that you'd agree that this theory doesn't apply to hitting a baseball.
[/quote]

lol someone that could hit with power 1/6 times would be the greatest hitter to ever play the game by far

[craniac24]

"I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? [size=5][b]I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight."[/b][/size]




I'm asking you if you believe what's in the bold text applies to hitting a baseball. Simple question. Should be a simple answer.

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410726915' post='10116387']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410726507' post='10116335']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410725784' post='10116285']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725300' post='10116259']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410723235' post='10116121']
Jim, your posts are long, but avoiding the question. To be clear, are you saying that by keeping the weight all on the left side, this is the MOST powerful way to swing? Or, are you saying that a weight shift CAN produce more power, but that it leads to mishits etc, and that therefore it might result in more distance for some to keep the weight left? These are VERY different things. You said the first one originally, but then backtracked to the second one. It's VERY hard to believe that keeping all the weight left truly is the MOST powerful if there are no long drivers who do it that way. If it really were more powerful, why wouldn't we see people whose livelihood depends on power doing it?
[/quote]

I'm not intending to avoid answering the question. If you shift your weight you may hit the ball farther but you may also hit the ball shorter. Since we are playing a precise game that requires consistent distances through the bag, do you think that shifting weight to produce inconsistent yardages is powerful? In the l.d. qualifier I competed in, no other golfer hit 5 out of 6 balls in the grid, my yardages were from 386 - 393 and the 5 pros that beat me had drives that ranged from 420 - 360 yards. My yardages had a range of 7 yards. If you've seen a long driver, wouldn't you say that they probably over swing and consequently aren't very good golfers?
I don't think it's useful and consequently not powerful to produce inconsistent yardages in this game. My students and I anchor our weight to our front foot in the set up, we maintain that weight throughout the strike and we produce substantial power(my stock 8 iron goes 168, my stock 1 iron goes 263 and my average drive is 315, all at sea level).
It's clear that many of you disagree with the concept of not shifting weight in the swing and this is why you don't see the power in the swing. If you have the swing figured out, don't waste your time telling me how wrong I am, go out and make some birdies.
[/quote]

Can you post a video of your driver swing?

Also, I am not saying you are wrong necessarily, just that I still can't tell whether you saying saying this method is the most powerful, or just a powerful way to swing that will be most consistent for many. You said the first one originally, and when that was questioned you started backtracking. People on this board are very skeptical when instructors make very broad pronouncements but then try to change their views when challenged.
[/quote]

I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight.
[/quote]

Where are you getting this "one out of 6" from? For the record, I actually do think your method might have some merit for the standard OTT hacker/slicer who is hopeless, I just don't think its more powerful and certainly don't think its the best for those who have any talent.
[/quote]

Lol, I'm glad you think this swing is good for a hacker, I'll pass that on to my students that are scratches. For the record this swing as performed by my students(not my personal record) has won over 20 golden state tour amateur tournaments, qualified for 2 us ams, 1 senior us am, 1 cal am and countless california mid-ams. It works well with talented golfers, it turns poor golfers into talented golfers and it makes teaching very easy for me because all students are able to position their anatomy in the set up so as to produce a quality swing while maintaining still weight.

[bph7]

Jim, post your 300 yard driver swing, you said you could do it surely you have a video if your swing, no?

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='craniac24' timestamp='1410727651' post='10116433']
"I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? [size=5][b]I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight."[/b][/size]




I'm asking you if you believe what's in the bold text applies to hitting a baseball. Simple question. Should be a simple answer.
[/quote]

Huh, who's talking about baseball? Baseball doesn't require you to hit home runs a precise distance, they just have to go over the wall and also the ball is moving in baseball. I can tell you this though, Ted Williams hit with his front side and consequently hit the pull(hook in golf terms), Babe Ruth hit with his front side which is evident by his right foot toeing in his body closed while waiting for the pitch, and modern day juicing power hitters in baseball like McGuire and Bonds were able to have very little movement in their swings(mcguire hit all his record homeruns to left and center field - the hook again). In golf, we have a shaft that replaces the steroids the ball players were using.

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410730679' post='10116613']
Jim, post your 300 yard driver swing, you said you could do it surely you have a video if your swing, no?
[/quote]

I already did a few pages back in this thread.

[craniac24]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410730962' post='10116629']
[quote name='craniac24' timestamp='1410727651' post='10116433']
"I never changed my views, hitting it farther one out of 6 times is powerful to you? [size=5][b]I strongly and broadly declare that the most powerful way to consistently advance a ball a substantial distance is by not shifting your weight."[/b][/size]




I'm asking you if you believe what's in the bold text applies to hitting a baseball. Simple question. Should be a simple answer.
[/quote]

Huh, who's talking about baseball? Baseball doesn't require you to hit home runs a precise distance, they just have to go over the wall and also the ball is moving in baseball. I can tell you this though, Ted Williams hit with his front side and consequently hit the pull(hook in golf terms), Babe Ruth hit with his front side which is evident by his right foot toeing in his body closed while waiting for the pitch, and modern day juicing power hitters in baseball like McGuire and Bonds were able to have very little movement in their swings(mcguire hit all his record homeruns to left and center field - the hook again). In golf, we have a shaft that replaces the steroids the ball players were using.
[/quote]

Thank you for not even coming close to answering the question.

[craniac24]

No...there's no weight shift here. At all. Nothing to see here. Move along folks.

http://youtu.be/aLbKXZe-Ns4

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1410726834' post='10116381']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725588' post='10116275']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1410725125' post='10116253']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410722363' post='10116075']
You'll notice in all the pics, the players plant weight on one foot to support the strike. Now the difference is that in all these pics the sport requires movement to follow the moving ball or the moving opponent, but in golf the ball doesn't move so we have the luxury of establishing the weight plant in the set up to support the strike. Ali and Bruce Lee didn't shift their weight to punch, they planted on a foot then struck. A hockey player doesn't shift his weight on a slap shot, that's why they're on one skate. Federer and Djokovich don't shift their weight to hit their one handed ground strokes, they plant one foot then swing. Do you shift your weight when using an ax or a hammer, throwing a frisbee, shooting pool, throwing a dart? Remember, golf requires both power and precision, so if you could find a swing that gave you ample power and precision by not moving your weight wouldn't you think it has some merit? And yes, I can lift my back foot off the ground and hit the ball far but obviously that requires more athleticism than is necessary.
[/quote]

What do you think those guys did before those pictures.....? They shifted to the other side, so that they could shift their weight back. If you don't go back, you can't shift forward. Even centered pivots have a substantial amount of pressure shifting back in the backswing. You can't compare throwing a dart to the golf swing... That requires no power. Try swinging an ax without shifting your weight and get back to me how that goes. To rotate properly to enable sufficient power in either golf or chopping wood, you're going to need to shift your weight. Just because there's no lateral movement doesn't mean shift isn't occuring.

Oh and if you're going to in passing say you hit 5 balls 390 in the grid in a re-max event when you had a 118 mph SS with a normal driver and say you did it in converses, no one is going to take you seriously.

Lol about throwing out Jason Day or Tiger as somehow reasons against a modern swing. I don't care if you have the most perfect motion the world has ever seen .If you hit 500 balls a day for 20 years, you're going to get back pain too. Just like how I squat with form that people fawn over, yet sometimes stuff hurts. Parts wear down. Left shoulder is equipped to handle the golf swing but the spine isn't? Here's a good comparison. Your spine:your shoulder as ft knox:library. The shoulder is the most mobile joint of the body. If you're going to say something can handle stress, it's absolutely not the shoulder.
[/quote]

Well you can tell that to the USC bio-kinesioligist that found my swing to bio-mechanically sound and not putting stress on the 3/4 rotating socket that is in your shoulder. My 118 ss is with my 45 inch driver, I have never checked it with my long driver. And, yes, I did it in chuck's. Don't care if you believe me, not here to sell you anything, just reporting the facts champ.
[/quote]

That's the thing though, adding 3 inches to your driver isn't going to magically at 20+ MPH of SS.

Kinesiology is pseudo-science. This is noted in many research studies. Show me an orthopod or a physical therapist that says what your boy in academia does and I'll give you some cred. Very similar to chiropractory, lots of money changes hands, lot of words exchanged, little physiological change.
[/quote]

Tell that to someone who is learning how to walk again or to the pseudo-scientists that are making prosthetics. Your body's joints and movements are finite. Once you understand the geometry of the anatomy it's very easy to see how you can make a joint friendly, pain free, powerful golf swing.

[Ghost of Snead]

No weight transfer here lol ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bUvU4gH1GI

[Jimvenetos]

[quote name='craniac24' timestamp='1410731216' post='10116655']
No...there's no weight shift here. At all. Nothing to see here. Move along folks.

[media=]http://youtu.be/aLbKXZe-Ns4[/media]
[/quote]

I never said the Babe didn't shift weight but your proving my point that he was closed with his legs in his set up, thank you. You should learn how to have a debate before you just inject unrelated evidence that supports your point of views.

[Jimvenetos]

I'm signing off fellas, post some video of your swings, I'd love to see your action.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410731306' post='10116667']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1410726834' post='10116381']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410725588' post='10116275']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1410725125' post='10116253']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410722363' post='10116075']
You'll notice in all the pics, the players plant weight on one foot to support the strike. Now the difference is that in all these pics the sport requires movement to follow the moving ball or the moving opponent, but in golf the ball doesn't move so we have the luxury of establishing the weight plant in the set up to support the strike. Ali and Bruce Lee didn't shift their weight to punch, they planted on a foot then struck. A hockey player doesn't shift his weight on a slap shot, that's why they're on one skate. Federer and Djokovich don't shift their weight to hit their one handed ground strokes, they plant one foot then swing. Do you shift your weight when using an ax or a hammer, throwing a frisbee, shooting pool, throwing a dart? Remember, golf requires both power and precision, so if you could find a swing that gave you ample power and precision by not moving your weight wouldn't you think it has some merit? And yes, I can lift my back foot off the ground and hit the ball far but obviously that requires more athleticism than is necessary.
[/quote]

What do you think those guys did before those pictures.....? They shifted to the other side, so that they could shift their weight back. If you don't go back, you can't shift forward. Even centered pivots have a substantial amount of pressure shifting back in the backswing. You can't compare throwing a dart to the golf swing... That requires no power. Try swinging an ax without shifting your weight and get back to me how that goes. To rotate properly to enable sufficient power in either golf or chopping wood, you're going to need to shift your weight. Just because there's no lateral movement doesn't mean shift isn't occuring.

Oh and if you're going to in passing say you hit 5 balls 390 in the grid in a re-max event when you had a 118 mph SS with a normal driver and say you did it in converses, no one is going to take you seriously.

Lol about throwing out Jason Day or Tiger as somehow reasons against a modern swing. I don't care if you have the most perfect motion the world has ever seen .If you hit 500 balls a day for 20 years, you're going to get back pain too. Just like how I squat with form that people fawn over, yet sometimes stuff hurts. Parts wear down. Left shoulder is equipped to handle the golf swing but the spine isn't? Here's a good comparison. Your spine:your shoulder as ft knox:library. The shoulder is the most mobile joint of the body. If you're going to say something can handle stress, it's absolutely not the shoulder.
[/quote]

Well you can tell that to the USC bio-kinesioligist that found my swing to bio-mechanically sound and not putting stress on the 3/4 rotating socket that is in your shoulder. My 118 ss is with my 45 inch driver, I have never checked it with my long driver. And, yes, I did it in chuck's. Don't care if you believe me, not here to sell you anything, just reporting the facts champ.
[/quote]

That's the thing though, adding 3 inches to your driver isn't going to magically at 20+ MPH of SS.

Kinesiology is pseudo-science. This is noted in many research studies. Show me an orthopod or a physical therapist that says what your boy in academia does and I'll give you some cred. Very similar to chiropractory, lots of money changes hands, lot of words exchanged, little physiological change.
[/quote]

Tell that to someone who is learning how to walk again or to the pseudo-scientists that are making prosthetics. Your body's joints and movements are finite. Once you understand the geometry of the anatomy it's very easy to see how you can make a joint friendly, pain free, powerful golf swing.
[/quote]

My job is understanding anatomy to a bit higher of a degree. You say you understand anatomy yet think the body is made of titanium and the only reason people have troubles is when they're doing something incorrectly. Close and open your hand as fast as you can for a minute straight. Feel that? You think your hand closing technique is bad?

You keep making broad statements that don't mean anything. Your supplied swing video shows you swinging roughly a 9 iron and has 20+ yards of movement. I've truly never seen someone curve a short iron that much. So do that with a driver's ball speed and I'm pretty sure it's clear your pattern is going to be curving the ball a ton. Completely fine if that's what you want, just important to make that distinction. The video you supplied is nowhere near a 2-3 yd draw.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410731480' post='10116683']
[quote name='craniac24' timestamp='1410731216' post='10116655']
No...there's no weight shift here. At all. Nothing to see here. Move along folks.

[media=]http://youtu.be/aLbKXZe-Ns4[/media]
[/quote]

I never said the Babe didn't shift weight but your proving my point that he was closed with his legs in his set up, thank you. You should learn how to have a debate before you just inject unrelated evidence that supports your point of views.
[/quote]

Snead was closed with his legs in the setup as well ... guess that's unrelated as well because he hit from the left side.

[CLSS]

Golfingarypeisal,

Nothing escapes you.

But, I'm not Jim. ...thanks for the compliment.

("Oops, u just had an empty? Lol)

CLSS

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410736454' post='10117087']
Golfingarypeisal,

Nothing escapes you.

But, I'm not Jim. ...thanks for the compliment.

("Oops, u just had an empty? Lol)

CLSS
[/quote]

You joined the forum 2 days ago. your only posts on this forum are in this thread.

[caeleric]

Jim's in a tough spot. Someone posts a decidedly unconventional swing method, and Jim pops into the thread to answer questions, and a lot of us proceed to attack him for really no reason.

He didn't come here to sell anything, he just came to give his thoughts. And if he has a track record of success and satisfaction with students, who are we to judge without trying it first?

Has he made some statements that fly in the face of what a lot of us have been taught and maybe even have studied ourselves, and there's a lot about his swing that makes me terrified to try it given my misses and the weak parts of my game and my fear that his swing would amplify my issues.

All that said, I really appreciate variety and open, respectful discourse about the golf swing, especially since we can all admit that there often many different ways to achieve the same or similar desired results. This thread has not been open or respectful.

Jim- You apologized above for offending anyone. I apologize to you if I was disrespectful in any of my comments to you, and I invite some others who have posted to this thread to apologize as well.

[CLSS]

Pinhig27. read my first post?

[caeleric]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410707965' post='10115305'][quote name='caeleric' timestamp='1410552535' post='10108217']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410551772' post='10108161']
[quote name='caeleric' timestamp='1410545431' post='10107743']
i'm a huge proponent of target-favored rotational swings like you see mike bender, sean foley, and snt advocate. that said, i'm highly skeptical of your swing. can you post a video of your driver swing with this model? i'd love to see it in action.
[/quote]

It's understandable to be skeptical, I teach a very different perception for the swing. The perception shift is similar to the Fosbury flop.

What do you mean by target-favored? I definitely favor the target over any other place on the course, in fact, I'd say I'm target obsessed.

The rotational swings are fine, I just believe they are more difficult to perform based upon requiring precise rhythm, tempo and timing to maintain. In the swing I teach, the rhythm, tempo and timing are a product of the still weight.
[/quote]

target-favored may be the wrong terminology. what i mean is weight distribution at setup and top of backswing. i think most golfers should keep the weight favoring the target side of their body instead of shifting away.

i've never tried your swing, so i cannot comment on its efficacy, but as someone who struggles with a hook as is, watching your path and face rotation gives me the sweats.
[/quote]

The reason why you hit a hook isn't because your path is inside out. If your path was truly inside out your shot would be a true tight draw.[/quote]

you seem to be someone who has studied the swing quite a bit, so I'm sure you know a hook can be produced with an inside out, square or outside in path if the face is closed to any of those paths. I'm sure you know this, but the extent to which the ball will curve is mostly dictated by the delta between path and face at impact.


for me, my hooks are from an inside out path (average is 9* open to target with my driver) and a closed face relative to the path (3* open to target with my driver), so I hit a push draw. I am working on a more neutral path.

I would love to see your swing in action. camera angles make it difficult to tell for sure, but it looks to me like the 9i swing in op's original post was a big hook, which is what I would expect given the setup position you teach. that would be hard for me to work with.

[golfinglarrypiersall]

[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410731538' post='10116689']
I'm signing off fellas, post some video of your swings, I'd love to see your action.
[/quote]
http://youtu.be/7C7SRCcEcfE