Jim Venetos golf swing?

[Tanner25]

[quote name='caeleric' timestamp='1410738746' post='10117249']
Jim's in a tough spot. Someone posts a decidedly unconventional swing method, and Jim pops into the thread to answer questions, and a lot of us proceed to attack him for really no reason.

He didn't come here to sell anything, he just came to give his thoughts. And if he has a track record of success and satisfaction with students, who are we to judge without trying it first?

Has he made some statements that fly in the face of what a lot of us have been taught and maybe even have studied ourselves, and there's a lot about his swing that makes me terrified to try it given my misses and the weak parts of my game and my fear that his swing would amplify my issues.

All that said, I really appreciate variety and open, respectful discourse about the golf swing, especially since we can all admit that there often many different ways to achieve the same or similar desired results. This thread has not been open or respectful.

Jim- You apologized above for offending anyone. I apologize to you if I was disrespectful in any of my comments to you, and I invite some others who have posted to this thread to apologize as well.
[/quote]

I agree. He didn't start the thread. But, on the other hand his responses were rude with an uncalled response on Russ' post. I was worried about chasing away someone - not this time. Jim, you tried to sign off a few times and wish us happy golfing. You do the same and leave.

[craniac24]

Wide open stance, huge lateral move, massive weight shift, zero snake oil...and one fantastic haircut.

[media=]http://youtu.be/GfMUP_NCDpQ[/media]

http://youtu.be/KoiDStMAhYk

[Fade]

How bizarre: A thread gets started about an instructor's swing method, and the instructor is not welcome in the thread.

[Hogan1975]

I'm an advocate of all bizarre golf programs

[bph7]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410745166' post='10117815']
How bizarre: A thread gets started about an instructor's swing method, and the instructor is not welcome in the thread.
[/quote]

Or, the instructor comes into the thread, is rude to multiple people, won't answer questions about many inconsistent things he says, calls everyone who questions him a hack, and when again he is questioned about some fundamental inconsistencies in what he had said, the instructor picks up his ball and goes home.

[craniac24]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410745836' post='10117889']
[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410745166' post='10117815']
How bizarre: A thread gets started about an instructor's swing method, and the instructor is not welcome in the thread.
[/quote]

Or, the instructor comes into the thread, is rude to multiple people, won't answer questions about many inconsistent things he says, calls everyone who questions him a hack, and when again he is questioned about some fundamental inconsistencies in what he had said, the instructor picks up his ball and goes home.
[/quote]

+1. A much more accurate description of what went on here.

[Fade]

Oh dear, he was rude?! That changes everything. It is indeed extremely important that only really polite posters discuss his method.

[bph7]

[quote name='Fade' timestamp='1410747007' post='10117979']
Oh dear, he was rude?! That changes everything. It is indeed extremely important that only really polite posters discuss his method.
[/quote]

He's free to come back, in fact I hope he does. I fundamentally dispute the fact that he is "unwelcome". I hope he comes back tomorrow, I could use some laughs at work.

[oikos1]

To Jim V,

Very disappointed. I watched your side by side comparison of you and Mr. Jones...I had to stop before it finished.

More disappointing...You have yet to show a full driver swing of prodigious length. I asked for a driver swing early on in this thread. You provided a link to "chatter". If you were just some dude shooting the bull, so be it, I and everyone else would care less to see a swing, but you claim to be an instructor and have made claims of long drives that would be quite impressive for the technique you espouse...

Demonstrate it, please...if you don't, well, this is WRX...

[CLSS]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410641001' post='10112581'][quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1410612557' post='10111139']
[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410589368' post='10110735']
Hi all. Newbie here.
Great topic!

Something new in golf almost always gets a reaction. If it had come from up top or already a success, people can't help but follow whether they understand... Good results are compelling. However, from an unknown person it's difficult to be open minded for some reason. Like me, my step dad is a PGA retired, made all his money from playing golf ever since and then teaching golf thereafter... Made well for himself in golf. He's my golf beginnings in the early 90s after 10 years of knowing him. But even with that back ground, surrounded by family and many friends with PGA stats who had great careers and living well from its honest hard work, I was still willing to hear and listen to Jim Venetos. I only wish I knew this technique from the very beginning of my golf.

He mentioned the Fosbury Flop in his comment earlier and that's exactly the point. If no one did it and became successful at it, it won't be here today. Everyone would still be doing it the old way.

Btw, this swing allows us to hit all shapes and not just restricted to the cool tight draws. We can hit it high/low fade it nicely or with power... What I mean is playing from a position makes it more fun. Playing from a position creates a lot of leverage and power and versatility.... But then we all know golf isn't just about power. It calls for a lot like finesse being artful, proven skills that gains a player the confidence... building skills to take to the course or with your regular games and ultimately for some out where you play against other pros and make chex like some of his students.

In my case, I've heard everything from my regular group of guys and just about everywhere I play about how people think I should play. But only to find them slowly adapting the Venetos golf... No harm in trying on your own, but if you do, be fair to your self and get some help or at least learn to experiment it the proper way... Not just go out there and swing the way you think Jim does it and then give that feed back to us. That wouldn't only be unfair to you, but think of who or others. Jim's a great guy and would entertain your golf thoughts towards productivity. But if you are set on conventional, then you are and it's cool.

Thanks, guys.

Best.

CLSS
[/quote]

Welcome, CLSS. I was thinking a similar point. When Stack n Tilt first came out, I am sure it wasn't received well and it was weird looking too. A few years later a few pros adopted it. I still do not see any of these as body friendly swings though.
[/quote]

This is jim Venetos. Look at the "hi all" and similar paragraph structure and the fact that this is his only post...[/quote]
you sure about that?

[bph7]

[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410750664' post='10118281']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410641001' post='10112581'][quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1410612557' post='10111139']
[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410589368' post='10110735']
Hi all. Newbie here.
Great topic!

Something new in golf almost always gets a reaction. If it had come from up top or already a success, people can't help but follow whether they understand... Good results are compelling. However, from an unknown person it's difficult to be open minded for some reason. Like me, my step dad is a PGA retired, made all his money from playing golf ever since and then teaching golf thereafter... Made well for himself in golf. He's my golf beginnings in the early 90s after 10 years of knowing him. But even with that back ground, surrounded by family and many friends with PGA stats who had great careers and living well from its honest hard work, I was still willing to hear and listen to Jim Venetos. I only wish I knew this technique from the very beginning of my golf.

He mentioned the Fosbury Flop in his comment earlier and that's exactly the point. If no one did it and became successful at it, it won't be here today. Everyone would still be doing it the old way.

Btw, this swing allows us to hit all shapes and not just restricted to the cool tight draws. We can hit it high/low fade it nicely or with power... What I mean is playing from a position makes it more fun. Playing from a position creates a lot of leverage and power and versatility.... But then we all know golf isn't just about power. It calls for a lot like finesse being artful, proven skills that gains a player the confidence... building skills to take to the course or with your regular games and ultimately for some out where you play against other pros and make chex like some of his students.

In my case, I've heard everything from my regular group of guys and just about everywhere I play about how people think I should play. But only to find them slowly adapting the Venetos golf... No harm in trying on your own, but if you do, be fair to your self and get some help or at least learn to experiment it the proper way... Not just go out there and swing the way you think Jim does it and then give that feed back to us. That wouldn't only be unfair to you, but think of who or others. Jim's a great guy and would entertain your golf thoughts towards productivity. But if you are set on conventional, then you are and it's cool.

Thanks, guys.

Best.

CLSS
[/quote]

Welcome, CLSS. I was thinking a similar point. When Stack n Tilt first came out, I am sure it wasn't received well and it was weird looking too. A few years later a few pros adopted it. I still do not see any of these as body friendly swings though.
[/quote]

This is jim Venetos. Look at the "hi all" and similar paragraph structure and the fact that this is his only post...[/quote]
you sure about that?
[/quote]
Yes

[CLSS]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1410641134' post='10112589']bph7 shoots and scores. Good call, nice catch, and very good yards after the catch.[/quote]

Sorry, two lefts are both lefts.

[CLSS]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410750860' post='10118301'][quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410750664' post='10118281']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410641001' post='10112581'][quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1410612557' post='10111139']
[quote name='CLSS' timestamp='1410589368' post='10110735']
Hi all. Newbie here.
Great topic!

Something new in golf almost always gets a reaction. If it had come from up top or already a success, people can't help but follow whether they understand... Good results are compelling. However, from an unknown person it's difficult to be open minded for some reason. Like me, my step dad is a PGA retired, made all his money from playing golf ever since and then teaching golf thereafter... Made well for himself in golf. He's my golf beginnings in the early 90s after 10 years of knowing him. But even with that back ground, surrounded by family and many friends with PGA stats who had great careers and living well from its honest hard work, I was still willing to hear and listen to Jim Venetos. I only wish I knew this technique from the very beginning of my golf.

He mentioned the Fosbury Flop in his comment earlier and that's exactly the point. If no one did it and became successful at it, it won't be here today. Everyone would still be doing it the old way.

Btw, this swing allows us to hit all shapes and not just restricted to the cool tight draws. We can hit it high/low fade it nicely or with power... What I mean is playing from a position makes it more fun. Playing from a position creates a lot of leverage and power and versatility.... But then we all know golf isn't just about power. It calls for a lot like finesse being artful, proven skills that gains a player the confidence... building skills to take to the course or with your regular games and ultimately for some out where you play against other pros and make chex like some of his students.

In my case, I've heard everything from my regular group of guys and just about everywhere I play about how people think I should play. But only to find them slowly adapting the Venetos golf... No harm in trying on your own, but if you do, be fair to your self and get some help or at least learn to experiment it the proper way... Not just go out there and swing the way you think Jim does it and then give that feed back to us. That wouldn't only be unfair to you, but think of who or others. Jim's a great guy and would entertain your golf thoughts towards productivity. But if you are set on conventional, then you are and it's cool.

Thanks, guys.

Best.

CLSS
[/quote]

Welcome, CLSS. I was thinking a similar point. When Stack n Tilt first came out, I am sure it wasn't received well and it was weird looking too. A few years later a few pros adopted it. I still do not see any of these as body friendly swings though.
[/quote]

This is jim Venetos. Look at the "hi all" and similar paragraph structure and the fact that this is his only post...[/quote]
you sure about that?
[/quote]
Yes[/quote]

Sorry. You're wrong. You made an assumption and you're so wrong. You told someone something you're not sure of and now he believes you. And now that's on you!

It's okay. People make mistakes... You're giving me too much credit here. I like Jim's swing and all for me. But I don't wanna be anyone else. I love me being me- lol!

[bph7]

CLSS,


Ok, well then could you put in a good word with you coach so he will come back and drop some knowledge on the forum? Specifically, I am looking to add a 25 yard hook 8 iron to my arsenal, and I really think the Venetos Program might be the ticket!

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]This seems pretty repetitive on these forums. A random *what do you thinks of this swing ?* leads to the guy who teaches it to come on here. Then some random *acolytes* come charging on to support their hero. Whoever this guy is , if you are so confident in the method , keeps teaching it. The responses you give have a *odor* of insecurities to them. There is always the nonsense of scratch , us amateur players , to *prove* the method works. There is more thans one way to swing a club well ands score well on the courses. I woulds never evens try this out , but whatever.[/color]

[color=#800080]It is likes sequels of movies that just keep coming straight to DVD.[/color]

[CLSS]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410756234' post='10118559']CLSS,


Ok, well then could you put in a good word with you coach so he will come back and drop some knowledge on the forum? Specifically, I am looking to add a 25 yard hook 8 iron to my arsenal, and I really think the Venetos Program might be the ticket![/quote]

Looks like you did it yourself.

I did not come here to write rants nor ill wills back to you. This is childish, not golf like attitude at all.

Too bad you couldn't handle being wrong outside of the main topic here. But "news flash" it's moved on... So should you.

It's just golf. Get in that program. Conventional... or not.

Tell me this isn't "the GolfWRX" work.

Tell the world who you are, what you know, what positive contribution could you offer.

Act and talk like you like golf.

The reason why we're going back and fort is because you thought I was Jim. Well, I'm not and you're wrong. Don't prolong this with other dumb things. You're just lowering the taste or class for this website.

Move on.

[tembolo1284]

So with this method the fade will have to be a push fade right? I can live with that.

Jim can you show some footage of you hitting different shot shapes at different trajectories?

I would also like to see the long drive swings. Would be cool to watch!

[Mozza73]

Sorry guys but I don't think Jim V's posts were anywhere near as rude as the ones posted against him, he seems a nice guy with an unorthodox swing method that appears to work for *some*.

Personally I like my swing method a little more Hogan but I can see the value in what he teaches and if a simplified swing method works for some and helps them game better then what is the problem.

Re: The weight shift discussion. I was under the impression that the reason that many of us setup in a reverse K and practice the Slicefixer method is to minimise weight shift and ensure that a rotational swing has less moving parts and no sway from the ball, we preset our impact position so all we have to do is turn. Martin Chuck teaches a swing method that keeps weight very much on the front foot , hell he even hits a driver further that I ever could on one leg.

Stack and tilters keep their weight forward and keep it there, but I don't see S&T instructors being dragged over the coals like Mr Venetos.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Mozza73' timestamp='1410792950' post='10119923']
Sorry guys but I don't think Jim V's posts were anywhere near as rude as the ones posted against him, he seems a nice guy with an unorthodox swing method that appears to work for *some*.

Personally I like my swing method a little more Hogan but I can see the value in what he teaches and if a simplified swing method works for some and helps them game better then what is the problem.

Re: The weight shift discussion. I was under the impression that the reason that many of us setup in a reverse K and practice the Slicefixer method is to minimise weight shift and ensure that a rotational swing has less moving parts and no sway from the ball, we preset our impact position so all we have to do is turn. Martin Chuck teaches a swing method that keeps weight very much on the front foot , hell he even hits a driver further that I ever could on one leg.

[b]Stack and tilters keep their weight forward and keep it there[/b], but I don't see S&T instructors being dragged over the coals like Mr Venetos.
[/quote]

No they don't. The only people that think this are ones ignorant of what is actually going on. Lateral shift isn't the same thing as a weight shift. If you're rotating your body, you're shifting weight/pressure/whatever you want to call it.

[kyle75]

I think we just found Tiger's new coach

[ej002]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1410793294' post='10119963']
[quote name='Mozza73' timestamp='1410792950' post='10119923']
Sorry guys but I don't think Jim V's posts were anywhere near as rude as the ones posted against him, he seems a nice guy with an unorthodox swing method that appears to work for *some*.

Personally I like my swing method a little more Hogan but I can see the value in what he teaches and if a simplified swing method works for some and helps them game better then what is the problem.

Re: The weight shift discussion. I was under the impression that the reason that many of us setup in a reverse K and practice the Slicefixer method is to minimise weight shift and ensure that a rotational swing has less moving parts and no sway from the ball, we preset our impact position so all we have to do is turn. Martin Chuck teaches a swing method that keeps weight very much on the front foot , hell he even hits a driver further that I ever could on one leg.

[b]Stack and tilters keep their weight forward and keep it there[/b], but I don't see S&T instructors being dragged over the coals like Mr Venetos.
[/quote]

No they don't. The only people that think this are ones ignorant of what is actually going on. Lateral shift isn't the same thing as a weight shift. If you're rotating your body, you're shifting weight/pressure/whatever you want to call it.
[/quote]

And SnT was dragged over the coals.

What is with Monte's lower leg action in that one video, it is like a rory jump stall. Kind of crazy looking.

[Mozza73]

Ok, maybe stack and tilt is a bad example but surely the point is that you are not adding power to the swing by shifting weight, the weight transfer is a natural result of the turn. With Slicefixer we turn into a braced right leg, because we want to keep our spine angle this means that weight loads onto the inside of the right foot in the backswing, and as we turn through that weight transfers itself to the front foot, all we do is turn. The weight transfer hasn't added any power , rotation and physics does this.

Surely?

[tembolo1284]

I really want to see the long drive shots and a fade executed with this swing method!

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Mozza73' timestamp='1410794112' post='10120091']
Ok, maybe stack and tilt is a bad example but surely the point is that you are not adding power to the swing by shifting weight, the weight transfer is a natural result of the turn. With Slicefixer we turn into a braced right leg, because we want to keep our spine angle this means that weight loads onto the inside of the right foot in the backswing, and as we turn through that weight transfers itself to the front foot, all we do is turn. The weight transfer hasn't added any power , rotation and physics does this.

Surely?
[/quote]

This is where you run into problems with definitions. If someone turns in a circle, they haven't changed their center of mass, but they're changing their pressure in each side of their body in order to turn. If you don't change the pressure to enable yourself to turn, you won't turn and thus you will have a really weak swing. Guys that swing 120 mph, it doesn't happen easy, they're actively working to get that speed. Power and rotation are a result of the turn and thus the pressure change. That's why you see people that rip it that lift a heel or do something different with their feet, it's all things to facilitate a greater pressure change. If you can keep your hips parallel to your target line and hit it far enough to compete on whatever level you want, great, but I don't think most people can to the levels they want.

[bph7]

[quote name='Mozza73' timestamp='1410794112' post='10120091']
Ok, maybe stack and tilt is a bad example but surely the point is that you are not adding power to the swing by shifting weight, the weight transfer is a natural result of the turn. With Slicefixer we turn into a braced right leg, because we want to keep our spine angle this means that weight loads onto the inside of the right foot in the backswing, and as we turn through that weight transfers itself to the front foot, all we do is turn. The weight transfer hasn't added any power , rotation and physics does this.

Surely?
[/quote]

Even if you were right, Venetos is saying NO weight transfer, not that the weight transfer provides no power. It's also not clear that many understand that one of the reasons that weight (or pressure or whatever you want to call it) transfers is that the arms weigh a decent amount, so, get this, when they go to the right on the backswing, there tends to be more pressure over there then before. Then, when they go back to the left, the pressure moves left. Apparently some instructors think they can avoid this simple fact of physics

[Noke]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410713943' post='10115619']
[quote name='Jimvenetos' timestamp='1410713842' post='10115607']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1410712678' post='10115545']
I've got the popcorn ready. Gonna be a fun day of nfl and watching this thread among other things. Keep it up Jim, I'm certain that your condescension is gaining you many new students!
[/quote]

I'm not here to gain students, just here answering questions.
[/quote]

Well, if you aren't here to gain students, I'd say mission accomplished. I will now exit your thread, I'm just gonna watch and enjoy.
[/quote]

I thought you were going to leave this thread?

I don't think Jim was too rude in his responses. I've seen as much condescension from Monte on here. Nor do I think that he was necessarily being inconsistent with his answers regarding distance with the swing he teaches.

Doesn't seem like he has a precise handle on how to present evidence in a constructive way.

I'm a sucker for trying new techniques, so I will give this swing a try on the range. Pretty sure I can hit a fade with it, face might have to be open 12* or something though.

And I don't get why this swing should only be for hackers, especially if it is truly a simpler way to hit it with decent distance. Simpler (within reason) is better, right? Isn't that what Stricker would claim?

[oikos1]

[i]I'm a sucker for trying new techniques, so I will give this swing a try on the range. Pretty sure I can hit a fade with it, face might have to be open 12* or something though. [/i]

What's wrong with your current swing that would make you want to try this?

[Noke]

[quote name='oikos1' timestamp='1410798642' post='10120529']
[i]I'm a sucker for trying new techniques, so I will give this swing a try on the range. Pretty sure I can hit a fade with it, face might have to be open 12* or something though. [/i]

What's wrong with your current swing that would make you want to try this?
[/quote]

Back problems. Adult onset scoliosis.

I should qualify that while I will try this swing, it has no chance of becoming a permanent solution for me. Long term left-anchoring is a no go for my back.

But why not try it? For me exploration and having fun is part of learning.

[tembolo1284]

if anything noke you will gain an appreciation for how to hit a hook. If you are a slut hooker already....then god help you.

[oikos1]

Sure. Hey, if your into trying new things, you might want to check out DJ Watts golf swing. He has scoliosis and says his swing is the best way to do it.