Interesting Drill

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415748171' post='10431437']
[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1415747038' post='10431355']
The video talks about separating pelvis and torso in some context with the drill. I'm pretty sure every biomechanic study has shown that pelvic-torso separation is only an advantage at the top of the swing and early transition, not throughout the downswing like this forces the player into doing.

I'm sorry, but I think there are better ways to change path than making the student increase angle of attack, since most learners should be given ways to reduce angle of attack. The question is, after you increase their angle of attack to force their path to the right, what do you do reduce angle of attack again without bringing the path back left again?

If you want to change the path, I think you should change the path.
[/quote]

You're assuming that the drill will overcook the aoa and path. If it is overcooked, we can use other drills or concepts to address it. If I want to change the path I use a variety of drills to change the path. So it sounds like we're on the same page. One drill is not better than another. You're going to have to find the one that resonates with the player. Saying "if you want to change the path, I think you should change the path" sounds like saying "If you want bigger biceps, you should have bigger biceps." It sounds like you may get along well with a coworker of mine who'll stand behind a student and say, "Swing more right" for an hour to change path.

This was fun guys (or girls, or tranny's. Never know who you're talking to here). I'll be on twitter where I know who I'm talking to so if something unnecessary is said to me I can talk to that individual in person at the PGA show or a seminar.
@oraclerio on twitter
Ryan Chaney
[/quote]

No comments on the video, didn't watch it, but you do know someone can make a fake Twitter account just easily call themselves anything they want on here right?

[Soloman1]

I guess it was too esoteric. If you need to change the path of a player, I think you should change the path instead of changing the AoA to change the path.

Girls and tranny's? Oh my.

[northgolf]

[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415746898' post='10431341']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415745408' post='10431231']
If this is the same guy I know from 15 years ago - I'm glad to see he's still around.

FWIW - I met him a long time ago at one of the most successful public ranges in the area. It sold out to a REIT and I thought he went with the owners to open additional facilities. For what it's worth he says he's working now (per the video) at a facility in Maryland that was started by Greg Rose (who created the Titleist Performance Institute), and within 2-3 miles of Congressional, TPC, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Columbia and Woodmont country clubs - all have hosted mens/ladies Tour events, as well as majors including US and Sr. US Opens and from where several of the Tour execs were members. In a word - if Ryan is still in the area - it's because he isn't a bad teacher. The video - was posted by the OP - not Ryan - but it doesn't surprise me that one/some GolfWRXers may have seen the thread and told him...there's a bunch of them on this website.

All golf teachers have those that love them - and hate them. Even the ones on GolfWRX. I don't think Ryan's doing anything overtly different than they do/did. If his methods aren't your cup of tea - say so. But it doesn't mean the guy's a hack. I've had almost every golf problem known to mankind - and while I appreciate and like some of the golf videos and instruction offered by the Monte's, Ryan's, Shawn Clement's, Wayne D's, Kirk Lucas' of the world...frankly they only help me some of the time...not all of the time.

I'd love for any of you critics to post any golf info and video that you might like to show us - I'll bet the GolfWRX community will be equally "fair".
[/quote]

Yes. I'm still in the area. Been at Clubgolf for 9 years now. Yes this is the facility where Greg Rose started his certification program for golf fitness instructors before him and Dave left the area to start TPI.

For those who have negative comments about the drill: You're entitled to your opinion and I won't judge you for sharing it. Stating your opinions as scientific fact is where I'll take issue. I've seen some comments about how this will definitely cause injury. Prove it. This drill isn't for everyone. I can't think of a drill that IS for everyone. I use it sometimes when I have players that "hang back" and "spin out". If they have a desire to hit a draw or reduce their slice, OR want to move a positive attack angle to a negative one with a club they plan to hit off the ground, this is a drill I might use.

I try to do a good job stating in my videos that "this MAY help" for certain problems. I never guarantee anything. I've used the drill with roughly a dozen players and none of them have gotten injured. Some of them haven't gotten the timing correct and we've had to try something else. If it does a good job of getting the COP to move before there's an aggressive rotation up the chain and they hit the ball better without getting hurt. Success.

I hope I addressed any questions anyone had about the video. Always happy to have a mature conversation about the golf swing or teaching. Also happy to go completely ham sandwich for you flame throwers out there.

Be well
Ryan
[/quote]

My problem with the drill is a very simple one - it completely disassociates the hips from their role in the downswing and that means synchronization issues when taking an actual swing. I just have to believe there are better approaches to any perceived problem that you think this drill addresses.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415748461' post='10431459']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1415747621' post='10431395']
[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415747143' post='10431361']
[quote name='spider' timestamp='1415744752' post='10431181']
wow so I went on Oracle's twitter after checking out his youtube page. PKTD is all over his feed in a feud. I'm so confused.
[/quote]

Moments after I joined, before I had posted anything on the site I got private message from Damon telling me to be careful playing with fire. So I thought it would be entertaining to share our banter with my followers. I wasn't wrong.
[/quote]
I've played along for long enough now so i'll break the news to those who care ( why you would I have no idea). Mr. Chaney here joined the site specifically to look for conflict with me, apparently. He seems to think he's doing Mr. Mayo some sort of favor. When he began trolling my profile page right after he joined, right after he had a Twitter convo with Mayo, well before he ever posted anything here, I called him out on it. Since then, he's taken to posting all of our PM's to his twitter feed because he, several others, and Mr. Maestro himself, are under the impression that I created the Mayo spoof videos that showed up here last summer. To be clear, they were funny as hell.....and I am guilty of taking jabs at Mr. Mayo, but I did not make them. There's an 'effort' by the social media fan club to attempt to smear me now as a result.

Most everything posted privately with Mr. Chaney aka 'OracleRio on twitter' was tongue and cheek and joking, but he's the kind of guy that would take that and post it publicly. You can view some of his lovely remarks about my wife, and some of my previous business ventures on his twitter feed and form your own opinions about his character independent of his teaching abilities.
[/quote]

What he said. Except for the fact that the only thing he can prove is that Joe tweeted at me for advice. The advice he was seeking was not public. If trolling is viewing a page, I'm a troll. Damon sent the first message and hells gates opened from there. And[color=#ff0000][b] we[/b][/color] don't need to smear you, Damon. You did it to yourself.
[/quote]
See what I mean. Conflict in the Trackman ranks.....all for 1 and 1 for all.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1415748821' post='10431487']
[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415746898' post='10431341']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415745408' post='10431231']
If this is the same guy I know from 15 years ago - I'm glad to see he's still around.

FWIW - I met him a long time ago at one of the most successful public ranges in the area. It sold out to a REIT and I thought he went with the owners to open additional facilities. For what it's worth he says he's working now (per the video) at a facility in Maryland that was started by Greg Rose (who created the Titleist Performance Institute), and within 2-3 miles of Congressional, TPC, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Columbia and Woodmont country clubs - all have hosted mens/ladies Tour events, as well as majors including US and Sr. US Opens and from where several of the Tour execs were members. In a word - if Ryan is still in the area - it's because he isn't a bad teacher. The video - was posted by the OP - not Ryan - but it doesn't surprise me that one/some GolfWRXers may have seen the thread and told him...there's a bunch of them on this website.

All golf teachers have those that love them - and hate them. Even the ones on GolfWRX. I don't think Ryan's doing anything overtly different than they do/did. If his methods aren't your cup of tea - say so. But it doesn't mean the guy's a hack. I've had almost every golf problem known to mankind - and while I appreciate and like some of the golf videos and instruction offered by the Monte's, Ryan's, Shawn Clement's, Wayne D's, Kirk Lucas' of the world...frankly they only help me some of the time...not all of the time.

I'd love for any of you critics to post any golf info and video that you might like to show us - I'll bet the GolfWRX community will be equally "fair".
[/quote]

Yes. I'm still in the area. Been at Clubgolf for 9 years now. Yes this is the facility where Greg Rose started his certification program for golf fitness instructors before him and Dave left the area to start TPI.

For those who have negative comments about the drill: You're entitled to your opinion and I won't judge you for sharing it. Stating your opinions as scientific fact is where I'll take issue. I've seen some comments about how this will definitely cause injury. Prove it. This drill isn't for everyone. I can't think of a drill that IS for everyone. I use it sometimes when I have players that "hang back" and "spin out". If they have a desire to hit a draw or reduce their slice, OR want to move a positive attack angle to a negative one with a club they plan to hit off the ground, this is a drill I might use.

I try to do a good job stating in my videos that "this MAY help" for certain problems. I never guarantee anything. I've used the drill with roughly a dozen players and none of them have gotten injured. Some of them haven't gotten the timing correct and we've had to try something else. If it does a good job of getting the COP to move before there's an aggressive rotation up the chain and they hit the ball better without getting hurt. Success.

I hope I addressed any questions anyone had about the video. Always happy to have a mature conversation about the golf swing or teaching. Also happy to go completely ham sandwich for you flame throwers out there.

Be well
Ryan
[/quote]

My problem with the drill is a very simple one - it completely disassociates the hips from their role in the downswing and that means synchronization issues when taking an actual swing. I just have to believe there are better approaches to any perceived problem that you think this drill addresses.
[/quote]

Sure - I get it - it doesn't work for you (or me either). But the OP was the one who offered it - so clearly it's a problem he's having (or might have) and he hasn't found anything yet on the forum that would have been better.

So even if the drill doesn't work for you or me....why does that somehow allow some of us to attack the integrity of the instructor? His ideas may not be helpful to everyone - but that doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy or a fraud does it? That's a leap IMO.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415746898' post='10431341']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415745408' post='10431231']
If this is the same guy I know from 15 years ago - I'm glad to see he's still around.

FWIW - I met him a long time ago at one of the most successful public ranges in the area. It sold out to a REIT and I thought he went with the owners to open additional facilities. For what it's worth he says he's working now (per the video) at a facility in Maryland that was started by Greg Rose (who created the Titleist Performance Institute), and within 2-3 miles of Congressional, TPC, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Columbia and Woodmont country clubs - all have hosted mens/ladies Tour events, as well as majors including US and Sr. US Opens and from where several of the Tour execs were members. In a word - if Ryan is still in the area - it's because he isn't a bad teacher. The video - was posted by the OP - not Ryan - but it doesn't surprise me that one/some GolfWRXers may have seen the thread and told him...there's a bunch of them on this website.

All golf teachers have those that love them - and hate them. Even the ones on GolfWRX. I don't think Ryan's doing anything overtly different than they do/did. If his methods aren't your cup of tea - say so. But it doesn't mean the guy's a hack. I've had almost every golf problem known to mankind - and while I appreciate and like some of the golf videos and instruction offered by the Monte's, Ryan's, Shawn Clement's, Wayne D's, Kirk Lucas' of the world...frankly they only help me some of the time...not all of the time.

I'd love for any of you critics to post any golf info and video that you might like to show us - I'll bet the GolfWRX community will be equally "fair".
[/quote]

Yes. I'm still in the area. Been at Clubgolf for 9 years now. Yes this is the facility where Greg Rose started his certification program for golf fitness instructors before him and Dave left the area to start TPI.

For those who have negative comments about the drill: You're entitled to your opinion and I won't judge you for sharing it. Stating your opinions as scientific fact is where I'll take issue. I've seen some comments about how this will definitely cause injury. Prove it. This drill isn't for everyone. I can't think of a drill that IS for everyone. I use it sometimes when I have players that "hang back" and "spin out". If they have a desire to hit a draw or reduce their slice, OR want to move a positive attack angle to a negative one with a club they plan to hit off the ground, this is a drill I might use.

I try to do a good job stating in my videos that "this MAY help" for certain problems. I never guarantee anything. I've used the drill with roughly a dozen players and none of them have gotten injured. Some of them haven't gotten the timing correct and we've had to try something else. If it does a good job of getting the COP to move before there's an aggressive rotation up the chain and they hit the ball better without getting hurt. Success.

I hope I addressed any questions anyone had about the video. Always happy to have a mature conversation about the golf swing or teaching. Also happy to go completely ham sandwich for you flame throwers out there.

Be well
Ryan
[/quote]

We met a long time ago at White Flint - you had just started, and I had been playing golf for about a year. You were going to go to Oregon to start something new. I knew Greg Rose through his parents - we were members of the same club...they would rave about "Dr. Greg". Glad you have been there for a while - you're just up the street maybe I'll drop by this winter. All the best.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

Great guy Mr. Chaney...claims he doesn't know Mayo, but here ya go. Note :same day as he joined here. Conspiracy to take down ol' PKTD mission failed.

[attachment=2493881:Screen Shot 2014-11-11 at 4.16.36 PM.png]

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[attachment=2493901:Screen Shot 2014-11-11 at 4.33.36 PM.png]

Just to clarify who's trolling who....

[Wasted_Talent]

Wow, how old are you guys?

[magdocjr]

Looks like Mr Chaney was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[ej002]

LMAO lets see if we can sum this one up.

So Maestro is mad that someone spoofed him and he thinks it was PKTD. He sends in either a real or fake Finney to take jabs at the forum guys. Finney is such a jerkwad he gets baanned in 15 posts so Maestro sends this guy. This clown gets banned in 5 posts lmao - I wonder who is the lucky Pierre of the Maestro, Finney ans oracle? Best part is PKtd didn't even start any of the Mayo bash threads. Classic WRX. What a mess.

What is with these newbs coming on here and staring crap with the regulars? It's nuts

[Hstead]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1415756349' post='10432095']
LMAO lets see if we can sum this one up.

So Maestro is mad that someone spoofed him and he thinks it was PKTD. He sends in either a real or fake Finney to take jabs at the forum guys. Finney is such a jerkwad he gets baanned in 15 posts so Maestro sends this guy. This clown gets banned in 5 posts lmao - I wonder who is the lucky Pierre of the Maestro, Finney ans oracle? Best part is PKtd didn't even start any of the Mayo bash threads. Classic WRX. What a mess.

What is with these newbs coming on here and staring crap with the regulars? It's nuts
[/quote]

So this all goes back to Trackman Maestro? I remember those threads.

I also remember the Finney deal a couple of days ago because he came on with this tough guy etc stuff which I found kind of funny seeing how Finney was about 175 and I am pretty sure my 16 year old daughter could take him. Now this Ryan guy comes on, joined several days before hand and his first post was in this thread, so it looks like I am shilling for him which I can 100% tell you I had no idea who he was, if he was a member here, if he is or isn't a Maestro associate.

I want to be on record that I have no way bashed PutterKilledTheDream , I don't have a twitter so I am not sure even how to use it, and I am not associated with any of these guys. I had a subscription to the Maestro youtube channel which I have since deleted today. I don't want to be lumped in this group just because I happened to have found this video looking for drills. I have no clue who all of these guys are and whom is associated with whom because I think most on here know I take lessons from Dan and he is not part of any group and doesn't have anyone he teaches with etc.

These guys seem to be getting the ban hammer constantly and that is not a group of guys I want to be a part of. I think they have demonstrated who they are and they are not me.

[northgolf]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415750960' post='10431673']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1415748821' post='10431487']
[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415746898' post='10431341']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415745408' post='10431231']
If this is the same guy I know from 15 years ago - I'm glad to see he's still around.

FWIW - I met him a long time ago at one of the most successful public ranges in the area. It sold out to a REIT and I thought he went with the owners to open additional facilities. For what it's worth he says he's working now (per the video) at a facility in Maryland that was started by Greg Rose (who created the Titleist Performance Institute), and within 2-3 miles of Congressional, TPC, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Columbia and Woodmont country clubs - all have hosted mens/ladies Tour events, as well as majors including US and Sr. US Opens and from where several of the Tour execs were members. In a word - if Ryan is still in the area - it's because he isn't a bad teacher. The video - was posted by the OP - not Ryan - but it doesn't surprise me that one/some GolfWRXers may have seen the thread and told him...there's a bunch of them on this website.

All golf teachers have those that love them - and hate them. Even the ones on GolfWRX. I don't think Ryan's doing anything overtly different than they do/did. If his methods aren't your cup of tea - say so. But it doesn't mean the guy's a hack. I've had almost every golf problem known to mankind - and while I appreciate and like some of the golf videos and instruction offered by the Monte's, Ryan's, Shawn Clement's, Wayne D's, Kirk Lucas' of the world...frankly they only help me some of the time...not all of the time.

I'd love for any of you critics to post any golf info and video that you might like to show us - I'll bet the GolfWRX community will be equally "fair".
[/quote]

Yes. I'm still in the area. Been at Clubgolf for 9 years now. Yes this is the facility where Greg Rose started his certification program for golf fitness instructors before him and Dave left the area to start TPI.

For those who have negative comments about the drill: You're entitled to your opinion and I won't judge you for sharing it. Stating your opinions as scientific fact is where I'll take issue. I've seen some comments about how this will definitely cause injury. Prove it. This drill isn't for everyone. I can't think of a drill that IS for everyone. I use it sometimes when I have players that "hang back" and "spin out". If they have a desire to hit a draw or reduce their slice, OR want to move a positive attack angle to a negative one with a club they plan to hit off the ground, this is a drill I might use.

I try to do a good job stating in my videos that "this MAY help" for certain problems. I never guarantee anything. I've used the drill with roughly a dozen players and none of them have gotten injured. Some of them haven't gotten the timing correct and we've had to try something else. If it does a good job of getting the COP to move before there's an aggressive rotation up the chain and they hit the ball better without getting hurt. Success.

I hope I addressed any questions anyone had about the video. Always happy to have a mature conversation about the golf swing or teaching. Also happy to go completely ham sandwich for you flame throwers out there.

Be well
Ryan
[/quote]

My problem with the drill is a very simple one - it completely disassociates the hips from their role in the downswing and that means synchronization issues when taking an actual swing. I just have to believe there are better approaches to any perceived problem that you think this drill addresses.
[/quote]

Sure - I get it - it doesn't work for you (or me either). But the OP was the one who offered it - so clearly it's a problem he's having (or might have) and he hasn't found anything yet on the forum that would have been better.

So even if the drill doesn't work for you or me....why does that somehow allow some of us to attack the integrity of the instructor? His ideas may not be helpful to everyone - but that doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy or a fraud does it? That's a leap IMO.
[/quote]

You miss my point, I think that drill won't work for anyone and will by its very nature make the player worse (disassociation of hips from shoulders causing synchronization issues). I also think it will stretch the lumbar region terribly if it is done with any enthusiasm and that is very bad for middle aged sedentary people.

The first rule of medicine is do no harm. Golf instruction should take that to heart.

Chip - I posted my issue with oraclerio's drill to him so he could address it. I am open to him explaining why this drill doesn't introduce the synchronization problem I see it causing - if he can explain it or tell me why it doesn't cause that problem then we all learn a little bit more about how we train the body to swing well, if he can't make such an explanation then we know something we don't want to do. This is how we advance knowledge.

I've used the step through drill effectively many times, it is great for learning how to deal with downhill lies. I can not imagine a single instance where the proposed drill will benefit the student - the opportunity is open.

[ej002]

H - I honestly don't know but I wasn't born yesterday -it is really bizarre that there are all these trolls coming out of the woodwork like cockroaches demanding real names and repeating PKTDs real name and bringing up his family. Didn't achoen post PKTDs family as a fake avatar too? It's like some real weirdo stuff going on. Those oracle PMs are pretty damaging. You can also look at theTwitter accounts without an account - simple google does it.

[Hstead]

iteach gave me some things to work on for the part of the swing I want to change by the way. I like to tinker but I have tinkered too much over the years and you would think I would have learned my lesson. The last time I was in JAX he had to fix two things I was intentionally doing because I misunderstood some youtube stuff I watched.

[ej002]

Lol You sound like tembolo - where is that guy?

[Hstead]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1415757720' post='10432219']
Lol You sound like tembolo - where is that guy?
[/quote]

It is Tiger Syndrome. When are we ever satisfied?

[ej002]

Go back to Butch I guess

[magdocjr]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1415757720' post='10432219']
Lol You sound like tembolo - where is that guy?
[/quote]

Last I heard Tembolo has a 1929 baby blade and is trying to dig it out of an artificial mat at the driving range.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1415757604' post='10432205']
H - I honestly don't know but I wasn't born yesterday -it is really bizarre that there are all these trolls coming out of the woodwork like cockroaches demanding real names and repeating PKTDs real name and bringing up his family. Didn't achoen post PKTDs family as a fake avatar too? It's like some real weirdo stuff going on. Those oracle PMs are pretty damaging. You can also look at theTwitter accounts without an account - simple google does it.
[/quote]

Here's the thing. Joe Mayo has taken a beating around here and for good reason. What does all this say about him though? He can't seem to fight his own battles and he obviously wants revenge for the videos. What amazes me about the guy however is that he literally can't take what he's dished out himself. Do we really need to pull his multiple attack threads on big name instructors again?
The reason I've become the target is most likely because I was also in the Trackman community and never drank the kool aid.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1415757391' post='10432185']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415750960' post='10431673']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1415748821' post='10431487']
[quote name='oraclerio' timestamp='1415746898' post='10431341']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1415745408' post='10431231']
If this is the same guy I know from 15 years ago - I'm glad to see he's still around.

FWIW - I met him a long time ago at one of the most successful public ranges in the area. It sold out to a REIT and I thought he went with the owners to open additional facilities. For what it's worth he says he's working now (per the video) at a facility in Maryland that was started by Greg Rose (who created the Titleist Performance Institute), and within 2-3 miles of Congressional, TPC, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Columbia and Woodmont country clubs - all have hosted mens/ladies Tour events, as well as majors including US and Sr. US Opens and from where several of the Tour execs were members. In a word - if Ryan is still in the area - it's because he isn't a bad teacher. The video - was posted by the OP - not Ryan - but it doesn't surprise me that one/some GolfWRXers may have seen the thread and told him...there's a bunch of them on this website.

All golf teachers have those that love them - and hate them. Even the ones on GolfWRX. I don't think Ryan's doing anything overtly different than they do/did. If his methods aren't your cup of tea - say so. But it doesn't mean the guy's a hack. I've had almost every golf problem known to mankind - and while I appreciate and like some of the golf videos and instruction offered by the Monte's, Ryan's, Shawn Clement's, Wayne D's, Kirk Lucas' of the world...frankly they only help me some of the time...not all of the time.

I'd love for any of you critics to post any golf info and video that you might like to show us - I'll bet the GolfWRX community will be equally "fair".
[/quote]

Yes. I'm still in the area. Been at Clubgolf for 9 years now. Yes this is the facility where Greg Rose started his certification program for golf fitness instructors before him and Dave left the area to start TPI.

For those who have negative comments about the drill: You're entitled to your opinion and I won't judge you for sharing it. Stating your opinions as scientific fact is where I'll take issue. I've seen some comments about how this will definitely cause injury. Prove it. This drill isn't for everyone. I can't think of a drill that IS for everyone. I use it sometimes when I have players that "hang back" and "spin out". If they have a desire to hit a draw or reduce their slice, OR want to move a positive attack angle to a negative one with a club they plan to hit off the ground, this is a drill I might use.

I try to do a good job stating in my videos that "this MAY help" for certain problems. I never guarantee anything. I've used the drill with roughly a dozen players and none of them have gotten injured. Some of them haven't gotten the timing correct and we've had to try something else. If it does a good job of getting the COP to move before there's an aggressive rotation up the chain and they hit the ball better without getting hurt. Success.

I hope I addressed any questions anyone had about the video. Always happy to have a mature conversation about the golf swing or teaching. Also happy to go completely ham sandwich for you flame throwers out there.

Be well
Ryan
[/quote]

My problem with the drill is a very simple one - it completely disassociates the hips from their role in the downswing and that means synchronization issues when taking an actual swing. I just have to believe there are better approaches to any perceived problem that you think this drill addresses.
[/quote]

Sure - I get it - it doesn't work for you (or me either). But the OP was the one who offered it - so clearly it's a problem he's having (or might have) and he hasn't found anything yet on the forum that would have been better.

So even if the drill doesn't work for you or me....why does that somehow allow some of us to attack the integrity of the instructor? His ideas may not be helpful to everyone - but that doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy or a fraud does it? That's a leap IMO.
[/quote]

You miss my point, I think that drill won't work for anyone and will by its very nature make the player worse (disassociation of hips from shoulders causing synchronization issues). I also think it will stretch the lumbar region terribly if it is done with any enthusiasm and that is very bad for middle aged sedentary people.

The first rule of medicine is do no harm. Golf instruction should take that to heart.

Chip - I posted my issue with oraclerio's drill to him so he could address it. I am open to him explaining why this drill doesn't introduce the synchronization problem I see it causing - if he can explain it or tell me why it doesn't cause that problem then we all learn a little bit more about how we train the body to swing well, if he can't make such an explanation then we know something we don't want to do. This is how we advance knowledge.

I've used the step through drill effectively many times, it is great for learning how to deal with downhill lies. I can not imagine a single instance where the proposed drill will benefit the student - the opportunity is open.
[/quote]

Seems like there is a history here which I don't know anything about.

My apologies if it appears I was attacking you - I wasn't.

[grant7]

I don't think this thread reflects well on this 'community'. The original post was about one drill, it is suggested for certain issues not a cure all, if you don't have those issues then you don't have to do the drill, but some people may and may benefit from it. If you doubt the quality of this drill maybe you shouldn't use it or recommend it to your students. Even if you don't like the drill I don't think it means you should discredit an entire career, a small amount of research into Ryan Chaney/OracleRio will give you a more complete view of him as a person and a teacher, he is very open about who he is and makes no attempt to maintain his online anonymity. If you dismiss someone because you haven't heard of them before then you won't get very far.

I have had a single lesson from Ryan and have followed him on twitter for a while, but we are not friends. His online interactions with Joe Mayo would not suggest they are friends, at times quite the contrary.

I don't think the DM's that were made public on twitter reflect particularly well on PKTD. If there is more information that should be taken into account then I haven't seen it. I am slightly confused, i got the impression that PKTD was not on twitter yet appears to know about OracleRio and Trackmanmaestro's interactions. I find getting the tone of sarcasm and 'tongue in cheek' comments can be difficult in written prose, perhaps stay away from it when you are initiating conversations online with someone you don't know, also if your own comments are joking perhaps you should consider that the replies are too.

While the timing of Oracle Rio joining the site and this thread appearing are very close I fail to see how and/or why he would have orchestrated a thread like this.

If he has been banned as a result of this then I will be disappointed, I for one would prefer more educated professionals to contribute here. Ryan is not your conventional golf pro, and would/will bring some diversity to the site. The suggestion that he is a man chasing trackman numbers shows how little understanding of him there is, in my opinion.

[color="#282828"]'Conspiracy to take down ol' PKTD mission failed.' I won't dwell on the egotistical tone of this comment, especially as it may be tongue on cheek. Where are they taking you down from? what is to be gained? I also fail to see how Ryan's hand was caught on the cookie jar.[/color]

[color="#282828"]For the record, as people on this site like to suggest that anyone who disagrees is a fake account, I am a real person, I have no agenda or 'mission'. I have met Ryan Chaney once, I have never met Joe Mayo, I have also spent some time with Iteach.[/color]

[Openwater22]

Well, if anyone reading this thread suffers from too fast hips and/or an upper torso that tends to get in front of the ball before impact, I can tell you how Iteach is fixing me without any drill that may or may not be harmful. He has me straightening the right arm as fast as possible as the first move down. Trying to be as extended as possible at impact. It's working for me.

Iteach, if I have in any way explained this in a manner that is incorrect, please post a clarification.

JN

[ej002]

[quote name='grant7' timestamp='1415783801' post='10433431']
I don't think this thread reflects well on this 'community'. The original post was about one drill, it is suggested for certain issues not a cure all, if you don't have those issues then you don't have to do the drill, but some people may and may benefit from it. If you doubt the quality of this drill maybe you shouldn't use it or recommend it to your students. Even if you don't like the drill I don't think it means you should discredit an entire career, a small amount of research into Ryan Chaney/OracleRio will give you a more complete view of him as a person and a teacher, he is very open about who he is and makes no attempt to maintain his online anonymity. If you dismiss someone because you haven't heard of them before then you won't get very far.

I have had a single lesson from Ryan and have followed him on twitter for a while, but we are not friends. His online interactions with Joe Mayo would not suggest they are friends, at times quite the contrary.

I don't think the DM's that were made public on twitter reflect particularly well on PKTD. If there is more information that should be taken into account then I haven't seen it. I am slightly confused, i got the impression that PKTD was not on twitter yet appears to know about OracleRio and Trackmanmaestro's interactions. I find getting the tone of sarcasm and 'tongue in cheek' comments can be difficult in written prose, perhaps stay away from it when you are initiating conversations online with someone you don't know, also if your own comments are joking perhaps you should consider that the replies are too.

While the timing of Oracle Rio joining the site and this thread appearing are very close I fail to see how and/or why he would have orchestrated a thread like this.

If he has been banned as a result of this then I will be disappointed, I for one would prefer more educated professionals to contribute here. Ryan is not your conventional golf pro, and would/will bring some diversity to the site. The suggestion that he is a man chasing trackman numbers shows how little understanding of him there is, in my opinion.

[color=#282828]'Conspiracy to take down ol' PKTD mission failed.' I won't dwell on the egotistical tone of this comment, especially as it may be tongue on cheek. Where are they taking you down from? what is to be gained? I also fail to see how Ryan's hand was caught on the cookie jar.[/color]

[color=#282828]For the record, as people on this site like to suggest that anyone who disagrees is a fake account, I am a real person, I have no agenda or 'mission'. I have met Ryan Chaney once, I have never met Joe Mayo, I have also spent some time with Iteach.[/color]
[/quote]

I am not sure how much you read this forum, but I recall PKTD saying in the original Maestro spoof thread (which was great btw), that the Maestro called him up and threatened PKTD. So it's just a coincidence that[size=4] sch**n posts up a pic of PKTD's family and uses his real name as a fake account and constantly harasses the guy? Maybe it wasn't even sch**n, maybe it was the Maestro that did that one.... Then Finney comes in calling out PKTD repeatedly posting his real name . . . then this oracle guy comes out calling PKTD by his real name. At the the same time he is tweeting with the "Maestro" that he "just created an account," while at the same time, he is messaging PKTD that he doesn't know the Maestro? Why lie in a PM? Why not just say I know Maestro, instead he says I know him about as well as I know your wife? Come on, something is rotten in Denmark! Jokes are funny to an extent, but these trackman idiots are making fun of a guy by his real name and making fun of his wife, and as far as I can tell, the guy didn't even do anything. This site has taken a giant nose-dive. Think I am done for a while. This is a disgrace.[/size]

[TB07]

If all you said is accurate, being done with this forum would actually make their cause worth while no?

[ej002]

^^^ I guess, but its only getting worse and [size=4]sch**n is now a censored word? That is the Mod's plan to stop this crap? Unreal. . . massive face palm.[/size]

[Hstead]

I have learned more about the situation through private conversations since I PMd a couple of folks worried that I would be tied to these guys. I think most know that are regulars here that I have been an iteach student for over a year and a half now. I have consistently reported Cary to the mods and have not be supportive of him in any way. I have never met Mayo, Finney, or Chaney. I just want to make sure this is clear as there appears to be a couple of posts that are in question of this thread setting up the attack on PutterKilledthe Dream. I was disgusted with Cary putting up his family previously and in no way want to be associated with that. I feel like that crossed a line here. And now I post a video of a drill and it turns into this. No way did I intend to attack Putter.

For the record, iteach gave me two things to fix, and as usual I was no where near close in fixing it myself. I was working on the lower body and his fix was getting my arms a little more in on the backswing and getting my arms farther from my right shoulder faster on the way down. He also gave me a feel to keep my buttons over my zipper. It is crazy how cause and effect work and I guess that is why I pay someone else to fix my swing, I can't do it on my own.

[grant7]

I was unaware of PKTD being threatened by mayo, that is unnecessary. I can't see why this is related, it appears people are jumping to conclusions here. Judging from what is in the public domain this interaction between PKTD and Ryan Chaney was started by a (possibly) threatening DM from PKTD.

I don't think a few tweets been people makes them friends, perhaps that was the point made in the initial wife comment. My assumption about using PKTD's real name was making a point in general about people who make threats and hide behind screen names.

As far as you can tell, what did OracleRio do to deserve the initial DM? start an account? is that the standard welcome to golfwrx? have a look at @oraclerio twitter account.

'these trackman idiots'? the pro at my club has a trackman, should I avoid him?

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='grant7' timestamp='1415783801' post='10433431']
I don't think this thread reflects well on this 'community'. The original post was about one drill, it is suggested for certain issues not a cure all, if you don't have those issues then you don't have to do the drill, but some people may and may benefit from it. If you doubt the quality of this drill maybe you shouldn't use it or recommend it to your students. Even if you don't like the drill I don't think it means you should discredit an entire career, a small amount of research into Ryan Chaney/OracleRio will give you a more complete view of him as a person and a teacher, he is very open about who he is and makes no attempt to maintain his online anonymity. If you dismiss someone because you haven't heard of them before then you won't get very far.

I have had a single lesson from Ryan and have followed him on twitter for a while, but we are not friends. His online interactions with Joe Mayo would not suggest they are friends, at times quite the contrary.

I don't think the DM's that were made public on twitter reflect particularly well on PKTD. If there is more information that should be taken into account then I haven't seen it. I am slightly confused, i got the impression that PKTD was not on twitter yet appears to know about OracleRio and Trackmanmaestro's interactions. I find getting the tone of sarcasm and 'tongue in cheek' comments can be difficult in written prose, perhaps stay away from it when you are initiating conversations online with someone you don't know, also if your own comments are joking perhaps you should consider that the replies are too.

While the timing of Oracle Rio joining the site and this thread appearing are very close I fail to see how and/or why he would have orchestrated a thread like this.

If he has been banned as a result of this then I will be disappointed, [b]I for one would prefer more educated professionals to contribute here[/b]. Ryan is not your conventional golf pro, and would/will bring some diversity to the site. The suggestion that he is a man chasing trackman numbers shows how little understanding of him there is, in my opinion.

[color=#282828]'Conspiracy to take down ol' PKTD mission failed.' I won't dwell on the egotistical tone of this comment, especially as it may be tongue on cheek. Where are they taking you down from? what is to be gained? I also fail to see how Ryan's hand was caught on the cookie jar.[/color]

[color=#282828]For the record, as people on this site like to suggest that anyone who disagrees is a fake account, I am a real person, I have no agenda or 'mission'. I have met Ryan Chaney once, I have never met Joe Mayo, I have also spent some time with Iteach.[/color]
[/quote]


Too late for that. Newbs claiming to be experts ruin any chance of that happening. Logical discussions get interrupted by people who think they know more than the good instructors that actually have posted here.

[grant7]

So there are no good instructors who haven't posted on here yet?

At least give people a chance to show that they aren't 'good instructors', they might surprise you.