Last 3 Major winners using Persimmon

[majic]

Thanks Charley for info. If the modern 3 wood is as upright as it seems it show the modern swing is more upright.

[xgolfx]

I agree. Also, the players are taller, stronger and in better shape. I think today's players are less "handsy" , more big muscle emphasis. The equipment dictates less curve on the shots in my opinion. The rough is not as tall with few exceptions Bunkers are simple compared to the past, Oakmont opens were played with furrowed bunkers. The hawk had a great respect for fairways. Today's stars just hit it hard and need not worry about 8 inch rough

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[Texsport]

I have a friend who played on the tour for 11 years. He is amazed by the change in the game, and says if today's players were playing in his era, the leading money winner's list would be considerably different to how it stacks up today.

 

In those days, miss a fairway and you were instantly playing to avoid double. Today, they're still trying to make eagle or birdie from the junk.

 

Better equipment and milder rough - chicks and everyone today loves the long ball!

 

Texsport

[stevemcgee99]

If I ran the Masters I'd require 44" or shorter wooden woods, steel shafts, and soft balls. Then I'd put the tees back where they were.

[xgolfx]

The different equipment requires a different skill set in every facet of the game. Green height of the grass required a different stroke. CASPER, PLAYER DEMARET and others had a more punch or even jab appearance to their putting. Bunkers were not pristine as today. The ball would bury often above the player's feet.Today, 90% of the balls roll down to level in the bunker. Rough is no problem most of the time. A club which was an Open site did not cut the rough for the year prior to the event. A week before the tournament , it was trimmed but the first cut was still over shoe height. Fifteen yards off the fairway it was a foot deep. Twenty yards off the fairway you were SOL. Many greens in non majors were the height of today's tees.

 

Balata was more "curvable" but not consistent. Out of a dozen balls, three would be out of round or under compression.everyone had a ball ring to test for roundness. If you left balls in a trunk of a car, balls would go bad. I saw more than one Dunlop Maxfli that was shaped like a football.

 

It is mind bending to me that today's players need new wedges EVERY MONTH. Hogan never put a club in his tournament bag unless he hit 1000 practice shots first

 

I am of the opinion that today's players are gifted. The other era came out of the caddy yard and dug it out of the dirt. Video, Dr Vinnie Boombatz psychological gurus, physical trainers, trailers for warmup exercise, diets, water bottles on every tee, rental car fleets, personal planes, and money for every move have replaced car pools, exchanging ideas for shotmaking, pot splitting ( if we tied for first place, we split the money and played off for the trophy), exchanging clubs ( Lanny gave Watson his Toney Penna backup driver to win 8 majors)

Personal trainers replaced parties. Can you imagine a Saturday night party where Arnie was in a bar called the Swiss Chalet with me till 130 and going out the next day shooting 67 to tie Jack for the Western Open.? Do you think Rory, Phil, Speith, Sneds, Bubba, etc would even be in the same room together?

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[HoganApexBlades]

The different equipment requires a different skill set in every facet of the game. Green height of the grass required a different stroke. CASPER, PLAYER DEMARET and others had a more punch or even jab appearance to their putting. Bunkers were not pristine as today. The ball would bury often above the player's feet.Today, 90% of the balls roll down to level in the bunker. Rough is no problem most of the time. A club which was an Open site did not cut the rough for the year prior to the event. A week before the tournament , it was trimmed but the first cut was still over shoe height. Fifteen yards off the fairway it was a foot deep. Twenty yards off the fairway you were SOL. Many greens in non majors were the height of today's tees.

 

Balata was more "curvable" but not consistent. Out of a dozen balls, three would be out of round or under compression.everyone had a ball ring to test for roundness. If you left balls in a trunk of a car, balls would go bad. I saw more than one Dunlop Maxfli that was shaped like a football.

 

It is mind bending to me that today's players need new wedges EVERY MONTH. Hogan never put a club in his tournament bag unless he hit 1000 practice shots first

 

I am of the opinion that today's players are gifted. The other era came out of the caddy yard and dug it out of the dirt. Video, Dr Vinnie Boombatz psychological gurus, physical trainers, trailers for warmup exercise, diets, water bottles on every tee, rental car fleets, personal planes, and money for every move have replaced car pools, exchanging ideas for shotmaking, pot splitting ( if we tied for first place, we split the money and played off for the trophy), exchanging clubs ( Lanny gave Watson his Toney Penna backup driver to win 8 majors)

Personal trainers replaced parties. Can you imagine a Saturday night party where Arnie was in a bar called the Swiss Chalet with me till 130 and going out the next day shooting 67 to tie Jack for the Western Open.? Do you think Rory, Phil, Speith, Sneds, Bubba, etc would even be in the same room together?

 

CHARLEY PENNA

 

Charley - Incredible insight! Thank you for your time, your amazing experience and your incredible memories!

[freddiec]

This beautiful 1950s 693T almost won the 1984 Masters tournament. I acquired it 3 years ago and just received verification from David Kite (tonight !) who spoke to his Dad (Tom Kite)and showed him my pictures. Tom played this 693T on tour including the Masters. The 1984 Masters broadcast on YouTube shows some good footage of Tom using this club during the final round. Tom also won Doral with it. Tom said that I was correct that he did play it in 1984 and he also said he worked on the club himself. He also went on and said the club brings back good memories..I have a golf week magazine showing Tom using the driver at Doral in March of 84 a few weeks before the Masters. Tom won at Doral and Jack finished 2nd. !!

[rex235]

Freddie-

 

Now we have the answer to "Who was using a TA 693T on Tour?"

 

Am sensing Dave Wood's work.

 

So many exquisite Drivers.... and so little time.. :taunt:

 

'84? Note Kite was a Wilson Staffer then.

 

Maybe you could get his son to show a few photos of his father's custom ground Staff irons from back then? Hmmm?

 

Nah...

 

PS. Larry Bobka said in the PodCast he still has those Ben Hogan irons "You Know Who" used while under contract to Titleist.

 

Wonder how much the Hoganistas would pay for that set, knowing someone paid $44K for the "backup" Scotty...

[Texsport]

Great work freddiec!

 

Texsport

 

PS No back weight added generally = a super dense, premium quality head

[xgolfx]

No backweight meant only the user was satisfied with the ball flight. Look under the sole plate to see if there was a hole . I believe Hogan had removed some lead under a sole plate and replaced it with paper. Some used wood filler. Often fairway woods had a rather large lead slug under the sole plate because backweighting would change the ball flight and compromise the structural rigidity, especially in a 4 wood.

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[Texsport]

Dave Wood verified Hogan's use of drilled out area under the sole plate, replaced with paper, including lead taped attached to the bottom of the hole (under the crown) to raise the center of gravity, and lower his driver trajectory. The concept was later used for Wood Bros Corker and Kool Cat models. Also used in J's Professional drivers, which Greg Norman and Jack Nicklaus both claimed they could hit 20 yards further than their own drivers - a milestone in metal wood history.

 

Didn't know that Tour pros hit shots to test the trajectory of persimmon woods before finishing and oversaw the final weighting of a club at the factory - live and learn. Certainly, a pro could learn that he preferred drivers with no back weight, but it would seem that a dense and/or deep faced head would be needed to get the proper swing weight. Such a head is what I now look for certainly.

 

I thought, at least, production models were finished to a swing weight standard by adding back weights only when necessary to meet the spec. If the head was heavy enough, no back weight was added, indicating a heavy, possibly dense, piece of wood.

 

Drilled out spaces under the sole plate, and lead right under the sole plate to raise trajectories of fairway woods, would seem like after factory modifications - as per the Hogan example.

 

Obviously a back weight could have been ordered if a higher trajectory was desired.

 

This might be an interesting discussion for persimmon lovers!

 

Texsport

[rex235]

Charley-

 

What was the swing weight of the drivers your father and Uncle Toney used?

 

...From your posts, we know their preferred color was Black.

 

Besides Hogan, who used heavy ones? who preferred lightweight ones?

[freddiec]

The Kite 693T is fairly light in terms of swing weight alone. It’s a tad under D0 but with the shaft stiffness and normal overall weight of 13.0 oz this club has really good feel. I hit it last week and the trajectory is Really good, what you would expect from a really good tour head. I don’t know if I will lift the sole plate where that would break the seal of the finish... but maybe some day.. the club is really sweet and being a huge fan of Tom’s makes it extra special. Tom provided a cool back story to this driver saying he repaired the sole area heel side himself where the plate meets the wood. A spot was slightly damaged during its travel and he worked on the club himself. Absolutely amazing piece of history !