Can this forum get back to just helping golfers (withouts all the drama) ?

[goobers80]

I posted this in the recent topic abouts this Hawaiin dude named Kelvin (whoever that may be). I really do nots always follow what that Monte guy says , but at least overall he seems to show some *class* ands nots make every debate into blobs of stupidity that helps not a sole. There really needs to be more of this in the forum.

 

The average golfer comes here to stop struggling. They often leave with too many ideas ands conflicting thoughts. That is acceptable , teachers do things different , but then the petty girly fights start ands nobody benefits ands golfWrx looks almost stupid when it comes to the instruction forums. Is there a chance they can start filtering better ? It is hurting golfers ands really is unfair to them both.

 

 

 

These are the best posts for entertainments. One guy is almost religiously devoted to a new swing guy then bashes on the other. Then that guy will sooner or later switch their brains ands do the same to *their guy.* The instruction forums have become pretty bad on here compared to when i first joined. Too bad they cannots clean it up ands let only proven or whatevers teachers post advice. It always becomes a girl cat-fight between grown men *?* over their *guys* or their association to them (or that they took a lesson froms one). This is nots even a private measuring contest anymore , it is straight outs middle-school girl fighting anymore.

 

You know who suffers ? The common golfer really desperate to become better ands hoping to nots goto the course hoping it goes well. And the just flat outs painful frustration of bad shots always creeping in.

 

This froms a girl who has some issues - grow up ands be men for once on here. Help the golfers , nots your own ego ands the need to prove *your guy* is so awesome. Who cares abouts 10 mph club head speeds when the average guy on here struggles to not toe shank a driver into crap 175 yards off the tee with his new driver he felt so good abouts. You coulds make a list of posters on here ands who they prefer ands it is like small infomercials on how great they are. The guy above promotes that Hawaiin dude , big surprise , etc etc etc.

 

What a freaking shame. It is pathetic really.

[bph7]

Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...

[scotee]

I know! Just like lil girls (not that there is anything wrong with that)

[Infoe]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...[/quote]

As a high capper that is improving but still scoring high, I've always wondered how does the common golfer differentiate the good instructor from the bad ones?

[bph7]

[quote name='Infoe' timestamp='1420773238' post='10712959']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...[/quote]

As a high capper that is improving but still scoring high, I've always wondered how does the common golfer differentiate the good instructor from the bad ones?
[/quote]

Pretty much impossible unfortunately, which is why I don't think its a good idea to follow any advice on here unless it's from known respected instructors (Monte, iTeach, FWP, PKTD, lv2 among others, there are more I'm forgetting but not that many more). I just don't think following tips from this board (or any board) is going to help most get better. That's why I like the discussions of the minutia, I think there can be interesting tidbits to come from that, but nothing that should ever be "applied". 90% of the tips posted on here are detrimental I'd say, it's just the nature of Internet instruction and the fact that it's REALLY hard to teach golf well.

[wobgon]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']
Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...
[/quote]
Can't we decide for ourselves who the good and bad instructors are? Why does someone like say, you, know more what is right or or wrong than say, me?

[bph7]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1420773857' post='10713025']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']
Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...
[/quote]
Can't we decide for ourselves who the good and bad instructors are? Why does someone like say, you know more what is right or or wrong than say, me?
[/quote]

Sure, after reading the debate, you can decide for youself. Or you could just ignore the debate threads. no one is making anyone read the threads or decide in any particular way. But I don't see the issue with pointing out bad instruction, in fact I think doing so should be embraced as it makes the board a better place for actually improving.

[ej002]

When there is no debate this forum is lame.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1420773857' post='10713025']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']
Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...
[/quote]
Can't we decide for ourselves who the good and bad instructors are? Why does someone like say, you, know more what is right or or wrong than say, me?
[/quote]

Spot on

[bph7]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1420774444' post='10713089']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1420773857' post='10713025']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']
Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...
[/quote]
Can't we decide for ourselves who the good and bad instructors are? Why does someone like say, you, know more what is right or or wrong than say, me?
[/quote]

Spot on
[/quote]

Yep totally agree, once the charlatans are pointed out, people can decide whether to participate in the debate or follow said charlatans. Seems like we all agree.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1420773857' post='10713025']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1420773043' post='10712923']
Lots of these so called debates are designed to try to tell/warn others of the terrible instructors. I'm not sure how else there would be to handle this. There has to be some mechanism for weeding out those who are good teachers from those who aren't. Bad teachers are going to cause much more harm to golfers than the threads with these debates would...
[/quote]
Can't we decide for ourselves who the good and bad instructors are? Why does someone like say, you, know more what is right or or wrong than say, me?
[/quote]

and how are you going to do that if everyone just kisses up to each other, like they do without the debates? the avg golf pro just says " oh yeah he's a great guy, true pro, blah blah blah" there's like this BS code where no one is allowed to speak their mind in golf instruction. if all you heard about everyone was positives, how would you be able to differentiate them? surely you don't think all golf instructors are good at what they do?

[Sean2]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1420774250' post='10713063']
When there is no debate this forum is lame.
[/quote]

Depends on what shape the debate takes. Good discussion is one thing, but...

[eightiron]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1420772644' post='10712887']
[color=#800080]I posted this in the recent topic abouts this Hawaiin dude named Kelvin (whoever that may be). I really do nots always follow what that Monte guy says , but at least overall he seems to show some *class* ands nots make every debate into blob of stupidity that helps not a sole. There really needs to be more of this in the forum.[/color]

[color=#800080]The average golfer comes here to stop struggling. They often leave with too many ideas ands conflicting thoughts. That is acceptable , teachers do things different , but then the petty girly fights start ands nobody benefits ands golfWrx looks almost stupid when it comes to the instruction forums. Is there a chance they can start filtering better ? It is hurting golfers ands really is unfair to them both.[/color]


[quote]

[color=#800080]These are the best posts for entertainments. One guy is almost religiously devoted to a new swing guy then bashes on the other. Then that guy will sooner or later switch their brains ands do the same to *their guy.* The instruction forums have become pretty bad on here compared to when i first joined. Too bad they cannots clean it up ands let only proven or whatevers teachers post advice. It always becomes a girl cat-fight between grown men *?* over their *guys* or their association to them (or that they took a lesson froms one). This is nots even a private measuring contest anymore , it is straight outs middle-school girl fighting anymore.[/color]

[color=#800080]You know who suffers ? The common golfer really desperate to become better ands hoping to nots goto the course hoping it goes well. And the just flat outs painful frustration of bad shots always creeping in.[/color]

[color=#800080]This froms a girl who has some issues - grow up ands be men for once on here. Help the golfers , nots your own ego ands the need to prove *your guy* is so awesome. Who cares abouts 10 mph club head speeds when the average guy on here struggles to not toe shank a driver into crap 175 yards off the tee with his new driver he felt so good abouts. You coulds make a list of posters on here ands who they prefer ands it is like small infomercials on how great they are. The guy above promotes that Hawaiin dude , big surprise , etc etc etc.[/color]

[color=#800080]What a freaking shame. It is pathetic really. [/color]
[/quote]
[/quote]

Exactly how are the fights / debates hurting golfers and how is it unfair to them?

[goobers80]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1420778175' post='10713361']
Exactly how are the fights / debates hurting golfers and how is it unfair to them?
[/quote]

[b][color=#800080]I posted this in the recent topic abouts this Hawaiin dude named Kelvin (whoever that may be). I really do nots always follow what that Monte guy says , but at least overall he seems to show some *class* ands nots make every debate into blobs of stupidity that helps not a sole. There really needs to be more of this in the forum.[/color][/b]

[color=#800080][b]The average golfer comes here to stop struggling. They often leave with too many ideas ands conflicting thoughts. That is acceptable , teachers do things different , but then the petty girly fights start ands nobody benefits ands golfWrx looks almost stupid when it comes to the instruction forums[/b].[/color]

[color=#800080]I put it into bold so this time you can actually see it. I shoulds have just warned new golfers to send private messages to a handful of guys to help on their swing videos ands nots on this forum. I am nots going to go on with them like most woulds. Have at it. My intentions were in a good place.[/color]

[color=#800080]I thinks MORAD is stupid , i see guys talking it down for their own agendas. I think that Kelvin is a nut jub , but his topics turn to girly fights. Somebody who values my opinions may just write thems off just because i ran my mouth like a idiot. If by now that does nots show how it hurts golfers , i guess i am a stupid moron. I can live with that , how abouts you ? Maybe my world is so far off froms your's ands other peoples that i am a insane person. I can disappear back to it ands be happy. I think too many thrive off the conflict here.[/color]

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]I will say just one other thing. I almost got run off here the first time i posted my bag , how i play , a old swing video. They were relentless. I actually cried , did things to myself because i felt so much worse. I was looking for a way to try to be social , but nots have to be social. So , all that fighting in my bag post , how did i suffer from it ? How was it unfair ? Seriously ? [/color]

[color=#800080]I am nots a teacher likes Monte , but i too was trying to help others see things more simply (probably more differently). When i leave this year , i only hope a few got to be better at golf seeing it differently thans the ones that fight over everything.[/color]

[Sean2]

Sam is correct...sometimes the minutia can be a bit off-putting, not to mention that solid advice is nitpicked by those that seem to have nothing better to do than, as Sam alluded to, generate conflict without offering anything of value.

[ej002]

With all due respect there are what 30 threads on the first page and 2 of them are a s*** show? They happen to be the "hottest" threads. The other 28 threads are getting advice. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to read this stuff. I am sure the site like the clicks.

[Mitchell]

As Sean has stated here numerous times before, we can disagree without being disagreeable. Seems many have become so overly defensive over their own viewpoints and opinions that they fail to distinguish between civil discourse and the vitriol that results from personal attacks. A confident and competent instructor should not deem it necessary to denegrate the ideas of another, rather point out what has worked well in his or her own personal experience. In the presence of difference of opinion, taking the high road and conducting oneself with a modicum of decorum should not be a difficult, exceptional task, but rather a standard practice.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Mitchell' timestamp='1420781715' post='10713639']
As Sean has stated here numerous times before, we can disagree without being disagreeable. Seems many have become so overly defensive over their own viewpoints and opinions that they fail to distinguish between civil discourse and the vitriol that results from personal attacks. A confident and competent instructor should not deem it necessary to denegrate the ideas of another, rather point out what has worked well in his or her own personal experience. In the presence of difference of opinion, taking the high road and conducting oneself with a modicum of decorum should not be a difficult, exceptional task, but rather a standard practice.
[/quote]

Amen Mitchell. :-)

[pinhigh27]

not to mention the level of scrutiny even in those threads isn't that high. I don't know what you guys do for a living where the crap you see on here is stressful or annoying. must be pretty chill.

more of this "everybody gets a trophy" bs philosophy. too scared to hurt peoples feelings or ruffle feathers. yeah tell me how that works out

[wmblake2000]

To tell you the truth most of bickering goes right over my head... and I have way above average grasp of swing theory than the average golfer. Some of the personal stuff or venom over subtle detail - it's like the arguers are in a secret society of advanced golf pettiness.

This is what strikes me as deeply absurd. Words are a poor vehicle for conveying the golf swing. They mainly describe 'feels' which are so subjective. The concepts are only an approximation, a 'map' poorly drawn and not the territory itself. There is very little hard data about a 'good' swing. The thing about internet posts - they are SO incomplete compared to a conversation. We readers project a ton of assumptions to fill in the emotional blanks.

So what are the arguments about? My guess is a golf swing is deeply personal, and an instructional approach and theory even more so. The argument is about fundamental insecurities. Otherwise, they remain healthy debates.

[Reasonability]

Sammy you're always going to be one of the WRX members I look forward to hearing from most. I don't say that because of the challenges you face. I look forward to your posts mainly because you seem to always seek rational and fair exchanges where no one is made to feel stupid. I've heard this in your voice several times. Sammy, I agree with you. If you're insane, that makes a lot of us insane, too.

I'm really sorry anyone picked on you enough to make you cry. You have a way of making folks stop picking on each other long enough to realize this is a tough game to learn and there's lots of ways to swing the club and decide what's in the bag, and even what to wear. Anyone who has read a few of your posts should know that about you and should NOT be intentionally trying to leave you in tears.

Some folks have deeply invested in what they believe, Sammy. They've spent untold hours and money... performed drills deep into the night....traveled long and far to take lessons. They have sometimes slipped into the habit of getting a little personal charge through delivering one-liners and little zingers intended to humiliate or embarrass someone. Its just become a habit and way of posting that is so accepted by now there's almost no turning back.

Here's about all I can offer you Sammy. First, I agree. Secondly, we aren't going to change anyone and there's almost no point in trying. Words are powerful - and so are terms like sarcasm, debate, fairness. But the definition of those terms Sammy just don't mean the same things to all people. And lastly, you have to remember Sammy, some folks come to a forum in much the same way people go to bars. There are some who drowned their sorrow. Some are hiding their pain. Some just want to have a laugh or two. Some walk in the door angry and only get angrier. Some suffer from the "smartest man in the room" syndrome. Some want to help others. Some want to hide in the corner quietly. This forum has all those characters and more on a daily basis. Its impossible to ask them all to post and behave according to some set of standards set by just one of us.

Again, I agree with you Sammy... it just comes down to not letting anyone get under your skin. Just wanted you to know you're not insane and your spirit is part of the real backbone of WRX.

[Sean2]

What some folks do, is ruin a perfectly good thread, by not only detracting from it, but in many cases, misrepresenting what the OP originally said. The OP then has to spend time defending him or herself instead of devoting time to what the thread was really about.

Eventually, the thread completely "unravels" and what was once a great topic simply gets lost in a jumble of nonsense through no fault of the OP.

[wmblake2000]

And for the record, I also like a lot of the bickering for the same reason I like really bad movies.

[FrankLinnear]

Let's just play 'if I had only known' for the average golfer and get warm and fuzzy

[TigerStrong]

Seems like this site has done just fine in the last 10 years...sorry it's not up to your standards

[Sean2]

[quote name='TigerStrong' timestamp='1420783261' post='10713757']
Seems like this site has done just fine in the last 10 years...sorry it's not up to your standards
[/quote]

I believe Sam is talking about how good topics can unravel and become useless. Do you think that is a good thing?

[wmblake2000]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1420783540' post='10713769']
I believe Sam is talking about how good topics can unravel and become useless. Do you think that is a good thing?
[/quote]

Don't you sometimes think it's entertaining or humorous? Black humor, about the way we humans are. Sad, but also fascinating?

[TigerStrong]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1420783540' post='10713769']
[quote name='TigerStrong' timestamp='1420783261' post='10713757']
Seems like this site has done just fine in the last 10 years...sorry it's not up to your standards
[/quote]

I believe Sam is talking about how good topics can unravel and become useless. Do you think that is a good thing?
[/quote]

Guess it wasn't meant to be then...it's just a forum site

[adizero]

Respectfully, You do not need to ask strangers for help with your swing. Pick one or more of your favorite players Hogan, Nicklaus, Penick, Toski, and read their books. Everything you need to know has already been written in a book or article in a golf magazine. Forums of every kind are available if you like to get your instruction that way. I would feel more comfortable reading "Golf My Way" by Jack Nicklaus. Or FoG by Hogan. Worked pretty well for Norman and Woods, among many others.