Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[4rheel]

Alright, this thread got me thinking I could hit blades again so I grabbed the set I helped my buddy order awhile back (he has since left the game). They are a custom set of MP 32/60 with matching grinds and minimal stampings. The finish was amazing so you can imagine the shock when I opened up the boxed up irons to see he had them refinished. Thankfully the 3 iron was left alone so I could take this pic.

 

And yes, I know the 60 is not a blade but the 32 is.

 

 

 

[NRJyzr]

And NRJ, I know where you come from at the top (long) end of the bag getting "squeezed" on lofts. LOL you know I don't mean you were 'off base' specifically.

 

No worries amiho. I thought it was pretty funny.

 

Got into more detail for anyone who may not have seen any previous similar comments on that, and may have been interested. You know, that guy may show up in this thread some day. It could happen.

 

Hey man, if a 3* loft gap ain't right in YOUR head, then it ain't right, period.

 

I'm always interested in anybody's method to their madness with this carney game. Gaining others' perspectives is knowledge.

 

Well, since you totally opened that door.....

 

LOL

 

In Ye Olde Dayes, when golf clubs started being numbered, the 1 iron was 20° of loft, and lofts were an even 4° from there to the 52° 9 iron. Eventually, lofts were strengthened and the 2 iron was 21°, going to a 49° 9 iron, and a "pitching iron" was added at 53°. That old 1 iron was bumped forward to 18°. The "sand iron" was commonly 58° or 60°.

 

When lofts crept forward more, those long irons were kept the same. That's where the compression at the top of the bag originated, and the hole at the bottom of the bag was created, leaving Tom Kite to reintroduce that 60°-ish loft as the "lob wedge."

 

Combine the above with the idea of focusing on the loft of the club, and ignoring the numbers stamped on the sole, and you get to where I'm bending my sets as I do. :)

[turtsoup]

I'm so glad I hopped in this thread. You guys are as OCD and analytical about golf as I am lol. Can definitely tell you guys are some genuine nice people as well. Glad to meet you guys! Not to mention, you're pretty good at enticing me to spend some dough and justify it to myself haha

[buzlin]

I'm so glad I hopped in this thread. You guys are as OCD and analytical about golf as I am lol. Can definitely tell you guys are some genuine nice people as well. Glad to meet you guys! Not to mention, you're pretty good at enticing me to spend some dough and justify it to myself haha

I think this is a requirement of WRX membership.

[mahonie]

BB lofts are 47, 42, 38, 34, 30, 27, 24, 21. Oh, and 18 if you get the 2i. (And you should.)

 

REALLY not liking those 3° gaps up to the 6 iron.

 

Oh, I'm letting my biases show again, aren't I? LOL

 

That's the point of a forum and this thread, to SHARE your perspective and biases (LMAO regardless of how off base they are).

 

I don't obsess about loft gaps and club lengths unless either creates a gap or creates overlap in my yardages. And at this point, those 3* gaps (with +1/2" length adds) are still producing 10 yard longer shots. My yardages are still gapped correctly even at 3*.

 

PW goes 105-115

9i goes 115-125

8i goes 125-135

7i goes 135-145

6i goes 145-155

5i goes 155-165

4i goes 165-175

3i goes 175-185

2i goes 185-195

 

So to me based on these results, that 3* gap is just perfect in combination with +1/2" length increases. And I wouldn't stress about the absolute # being 3*, 4*, or 5* unless there is an issue with yardage gaps/overlaps.

 

And Nard_S, yes the same logic above applies to my PW at 5* more loft than my 9i. I still get a 10 yard spread. And then I go 6* to a 53* wedge that goes 80-90 and then 7* to a 60* wedge that goes 65-75. Only in my wedges do I have gaps, but that is OK by me because I have to learn partial shots with them and PW anyway, so that is how I close the gaps.

 

I think one of the hardest things for us amateurs is to get a good handle on how far we hit irons - at least that's true for me. There's enough variance from day to day and shot to shot that... I mean, some days I am 2 clubs longer than other days. And within any round, I am going to have better and lessor quality strikes. And gapping irons - I doubt that your gaps are so regular and precise (that's not a criticism of you - but a general observation about irons).

 

As I play better, figuring out how far I hit each iron is getting more important, but I don't know how to do it. I almost think you need several sessions with a Trackman and your regular (not range) balls to really get a clear idea. Or maybe arrcos kind of technology might even be better because it's on course performance. I guess that's the best answer.

 

Anyone use arrcos or anything else to really dial in your distances?

 

Harvey Penick said that the right club to hit is usually the first one that you think of when you picture the shot in front if you. Harvey's take...If it looks like a 6-iron at first glance and you then change your mind and pick up a 5-iron instead you will typically under hit the shot. Conversely if you pick up a 7-iron you will typically try to hit it too hard and mishit it anyway. I know from years of playing that I typically hit a 7-iron 150ish yards. However, before I check the yardage markers on the course (I don't have a rangefinder), I look at the shot and get an immediate feel for the club I need to play the shot that I am picturing. For example, if the shot is in to a wind coming off the right, I am probably thinking of hitting a fade to hold the line and I'm automatically thinking of the club that will give me the flight I need. I'll then check the yardage from the on course markers and the pick the club. If the shot is 150 yards, I'm pulling a 6- or even a 5-iron allowing for the loss of distance because of the fade and the wind.

 

There are so many variables day to day that can change how far the ball travels, let alone the variables in the swing, I think the focus on exact yardages for every club can be misplaced. Golf to me will always be more a game of feel and shot-making, than a game of science (sorry DeNinny ;-)).

 

Watching the Pros put umpteen balls in the water on 17 at Sawgrass proves that knowing your yardages can be rendered useless if all of the other factors aren't taken into consideration properly.

[DeNinny]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

[Sir edward of putternut]

Thought id post 2 pics of some classics...the original muirfields and the mp-29...

Macgregor has more straight angles while the mp 29, though hardly as rounded as they would evolve (devolve?)by the time of the 33...the muscle on the muirfields is also more modern, similar to the rounded buttock, while the mp 29 is like the kzg, and even, the muscle shape of the mp 59.

The edge on both are much sharper than todays child-proof blades, with the macregegor posing no issue tearing through all turf thats come its way. The 29 is no slouch either though...the 29 is definetely different feelung from todays gff mizzys, though not crisp like the macs. The macs produce a solid thwack when struck but make a more generic sound when thry cling together in the bag. Though the soles are similar, the head is smaller on the macs, while the hosel is longer and though the muscles are shaped differently, its amazing how identical they look from the side

[Kingcat990]

I'm so glad I hopped in this thread. You guys are as OCD and analytical about golf as I am lol.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. Not all of us. In regards to club building, I'm OCD. Everything else is just golf. If I hit an iron to the back of the green, I dont stand there to laser it to see where I hit it from. Typically just default to "I guess I just hit that iron exactly as an iron was intended to be hit and caught it as clean as I could" and come to the conclusion that my gapping isn't my problem. It's a lack of repetition. :)

 

My brain on the golf course is just a thunderstorm. Or a hungry hungry hippo game played by toddlers.

[wmblake2000]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

 

That is fair enough and makes sense. It sort of begs the question, chicken or the egg. You have a sense of certainty in your assessment that blades are superior, and again, fair enough. This creates confidence. So you play better with blades. Was it the blades or your belief in them? Both, perhaps. I, on the other hand, am much less influenced by any such analysis. So many 'irrational' forces feed my sense of confidence or lack thereof. But I totally get what you're saying about you.

 

Here's the thing. Creating confidence is really important. I'd hit it with Tin Cup's rake if I had the most confidence in it. But that rake also offends my aesthetic sense, so I frankly discount the objective feedback some (or a lot). Bias and predisposition play undeniable roles. So I end up not being able to develop confidence in it. (Nor do I want to change this. I guess I could if I really wanted to). The thing that's not a constant is ... me. Some days I feel like a nut and some days I don't (now try to get the Mounds/Almond Joy jingle out of your head). So I end up with no 'science' or 'objectivity' at all in what creates the conditions for confidence. Of course, finally, the swing's the thing.

 

Maybe what all this rambling is trying to say is, there are so many variables in playing golf confidently and while, like you and so many others here, I love playing blades - yesterday I played a tournament and there was no question in my mind which irons I trusted more...the Honma CBs. I knew I was going to hit a lot of 5-6 irons (and hybrids and FW wood) on this 6800 yard track and very few 7-W. Now, I will also confess, in recreational rounds, I hit my blades equally well, even the long irons. Yet, in spite of this, I am certain I look at the Honma with more confidence under pressure. Why? Who knows? Maybe the 'marketing' has won me over, maybe the decades of stinging hands with blades is still in there. Maybe I do the same thing as I described with the rake and discount the results. But the bottom line is those are the ones I trust the most.

[4rheel]

Thought id post 2 pics of some classics...the original muirfields and the mp-29...

Macgregor has more straight angles while the mp 29, though hardly as rounded as they would evolve (devolve?)by the time of the 33...the muscle on the muirfields is also more modern, similar to the rounded buttock, while the mp 29 is like the kzg, and even, the muscle shape of the mp 59.

The edge on both are much sharper than todays child-proof blades, with the macregegor posing no issue tearing through all turf thats come its way. The 29 is no slouch either though...the 29 is definetely different feelung from todays gff mizzys, though not crisp like the macs. The macs produce a solid thwack when struck but make a more generic sound when thry cling together in the bag. Though the soles are similar, the head is smaller on the macs, while the hosel is longer and though the muscles are shaped differently, its amazing how identical they look from the side

 

I have the same set of Muirifields in the garage. The sweetspot was lest then the size of a dime!

[Sir edward of putternut]

Both short irons frame the ball, especially the macs, as perfectly as one could ask. All the hard angles of the mac disappear and they are incredibly accurate

 

 

 

 

[DeNinny]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

 

That is fair enough and makes sense. It sort of begs the question, chicken or the egg. You have a sense of certainty in your assessment that blades are superior, and again, fair enough. This creates confidence. So you play better with blades. Was it the blades or your belief in them? Both, perhaps. I, on the other hand, am much less influenced by any such analysis. So many 'irrational' forces feed my sense of confidence or lack thereof. But I totally get what you're saying about you.

 

Here's the thing. Creating confidence is really important. I'd hit it with Tin Cup's rake if I had the most confidence in it. But that rake also offends my aesthetic sense, so I frankly discount the objective feedback some (or a lot). Bias and predisposition play undeniable roles. So I end up not being able to develop confidence in it. (Nor do I want to change this. I guess I could if I really wanted to). The thing that's not a constant is ... me. Some days I feel like a nut and some days I don't (now try to get the Mounds/Almond Joy jingle out of your head). So I end up with no 'science' or 'objectivity' at all in what creates the conditions for confidence. Of course, finally, the swing's the thing.

 

Maybe what all this rambling is trying to say is, there are so many variables in playing golf confidently and while, like you and so many others here, I love playing blades - yesterday I played a tournament and there was no question in my mind which irons I trusted more...the Honma CBs. I knew I was going to hit a lot of 5-6 irons (and hybrids and FW wood) on this 6800 yard track and very few 7-W. Now, I will also confess, in recreational rounds, I hit my blades equally well, even the long irons. Yet, in spite of this, I am certain I look at the Honma with more confidence under pressure. Why? Who knows? Maybe the 'marketing' has won me over, maybe the decades of stinging hands with blades is still in there. Maybe I do the same thing as I described with the rake and discount the results. But the bottom line is those are the ones I trust the most.

 

And all I'm saying is that you can use and fully TRUST the superiority of blades to help your psychological decision making. Just at least open your mind to it. You fully admit that you may not have a scientifically rational reason that you play a rake or CB but somewhere in your psyche you have confidence in it. That is fine by me and I fully respect that and even more so than the science ignorant duffer that claims his rake or CB has "science" helping him because LOL I'm sorry but a blade design is superior in ALL technical ways with the lone exception that miss hits just don't FEEL as harsh. Without getting into minutia arguments, this is all you really get from those clubs and I can give all the irrefutable science to support this AND I can point out the technical flaws and HALF-TRUTHS of contrary marketed "physics". It really isn't that hard of a physics problem anymore. So anyway, my point is that *if* more golfers just realized that "forgiveness" is really (and truly) a technical SHAM and that blades really are better for clean ball contact and more precise control over the ball, for all skill levels mind you, then their whole psyche about them and the other clubs that are technically worse would change. Their MINDs would be OPEN to other possibilities that could be used to build a scientifically backed TRUST and CONFIDENCE in blades.

 

And I fully don't deny the statistical insignificance of the science. LOL I understand precision and error VERY well. But LOL that ignorant duffer that argues with me on that point should realize that the same argument applies to the supposed "benefit" that he claims for his "forgiving" clubs.

 

So I guess what I am rambling to is that it can NEVER hurt you to use science as a foundation for your club choices and if you are technical like me then every infinitesimal advantage *can* provide a psychological edge in your mind, feeding your confidence and trust.

 

Oh and also I'm saying that *if* you choose a CB over a blade, then you aren't choosing it based on the true and complete science. It only works for you because you've convinced yourself of it. And I'm fine with this.

[mahonie]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

 

I agree with you DN. I suppose what I was getting at is the current use of Trackman, spin numbers, launch angles and the like is taking away from the skill and art of the game. I don't need to know that the ball is spinning at 2000rpm and launching at 14* to know that I have hit a good drive, I can feel it off the clubface. Now I know from science and also from feel that nothing is going to better a bladed iron, but the statistical part of science is overplayed.

[PixlPutterman]

maaaaahhhhh gggggggoooooooddddnneeesssss

 

 

http://blog.tourspecgolf.com/mizuno-yoro-craft-mp-5s/

[DeNinny]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

 

I agree with you DN. I suppose what I was getting at is the current use of Trackman, spin numbers, launch angles and the like is taking away from the skill and art of the game. I don't need to know that the ball is spinning at 2000rpm and launching at 14* to know that I have hit a good drive, I can feel it off the clubface. Now I know from science and also from feel that nothing is going to better a bladed iron, but the statistical part of science is overplayed.

 

LOL I was only responding based on you apologizing to me in making your point.

 

And yeah all that trackman and launch monitors numbers obsession so that you can "choose" a "perfect" club is a joke. It helps, but I fully agree that it has gone overboard, BUT...to me the issue is really by those that don't know how to take all of it into CONTEXT.

 

And my other point is that everybody just needs to get it out of their heads that DeNinny is some calculating scientific robot that only works off physics and data. My forte may be explaining it, but when it comes to this game I'm all about feel and art and psychology. I take a more DaVinci approach to the game rather than Picasso.

[turtsoup]

I'm so glad I hopped in this thread. You guys are as OCD and analytical about golf as I am lol.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. Not all of us. In regards to club building, I'm OCD. Everything else is just golf. If I hit an iron to the back of the green, I dont stand there to laser it to see where I hit it from. Typically just default to "I guess I just hit that iron exactly as an iron was intended to be hit and caught it as clean as I could" and come to the conclusion that my gapping isn't my problem. It's a lack of repetition. :)

 

My brain on the golf course is just a thunderstorm. Or a hungry hungry hippo game played by toddlers.

 

If that came off as negative, I apologize, as it wasn't meant in a negative manner. I'm DEFINITELY over analytical about everything in my golf game and overthink the most minute issues lol. My brain never stops when on the driving range or the course. Kinda sucks really..

 

Anyways, of recent acquired knowledge, I have learned that my apex have to go. I do believe I have them sold locally within two hours of deciding to sell. So I will put the burden on you fine gentlemen to help me figure out what to purchase. I told my wife I would bank some dough so I must adhere to a budget. I'm thinking no more than $500 purchase (because i still have to loft/lie and grip the new MP33s coming) and something fairly newer. My mind automatically goes to Srixon Z945 or MP5? What kind of suggestions in that price range do you guys think? I could possibly end up bagging the MP33s for a while anyway but just as some of you guys know and can relate to, I'm a club ho. Theres no way I can sell a set of irons and not purchase another, just not happening. Help!!

[braincramp52]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

 

That is fair enough and makes sense. It sort of begs the question, chicken or the egg. You have a sense of certainty in your assessment that blades are superior, and again, fair enough. This creates confidence. So you play better with blades. Was it the blades or your belief in them? Both, perhaps. I, on the other hand, am much less influenced by any such analysis. So many 'irrational' forces feed my sense of confidence or lack thereof. But I totally get what you're saying about you.

 

Here's the thing. Creating confidence is really important. I'd hit it with Tin Cup's rake if I had the most confidence in it. But that rake also offends my aesthetic sense, so I frankly discount the objective feedback some (or a lot). Bias and predisposition play undeniable roles. So I end up not being able to develop confidence in it. (Nor do I want to change this. I guess I could if I really wanted to). The thing that's not a constant is ... me. Some days I feel like a nut and some days I don't (now try to get the Mounds/Almond Joy jingle out of your head). So I end up with no 'science' or 'objectivity' at all in what creates the conditions for confidence. Of course, finally, the swing's the thing.

 

Maybe what all this rambling is trying to say is, there are so many variables in playing golf confidently and while, like you and so many others here, I love playing blades - yesterday I played a tournament and there was no question in my mind which irons I trusted more...the Honma CBs. I knew I was going to hit a lot of 5-6 irons (and hybrids and FW wood) on this 6800 yard track and very few 7-W. Now, I will also confess, in recreational rounds, I hit my blades equally well, even the long irons. Yet, in spite of this, I am certain I look at the Honma with more confidence under pressure. Why? Who knows? Maybe the 'marketing' has won me over, maybe the decades of stinging hands with blades is still in there. Maybe I do the same thing as I described with the rake and discount the results. But the bottom line is those are the ones I trust the most.

 

And all I'm saying is that you can use and fully TRUST the superiority of blades to help your psychological decision making. Just at least open your mind to it. You fully admit that you may not have a scientifically rational reason that you play a rake or CB but somewhere in your psyche you have confidence in it. That is fine by me and I fully respect that and even more so than the science ignorant duffer that claims his rake or CB has "science" helping him because LOL I'm sorry but a blade design is superior in ALL technical ways with the lone exception that miss hits just don't FEEL as harsh. Without getting into minutia arguments, this is all you really get from those clubs and I can give all the irrefutable science to support this AND I can point out the technical flaws and HALF-TRUTHS of contrary marketed "physics". It really isn't that hard of a physics problem anymore. So anyway, my point is that *if* more golfers just realized that "forgiveness" is really (and truly) a technical SHAM and that blades really are better for clean ball contact and more precise control over the ball, for all skill levels mind you, then their whole psyche about them and the other clubs that are technically worse would change. Their MINDs would be OPEN to other possibilities that could be used to build a scientifically backed TRUST and CONFIDENCE in blades.

 

And I fully don't deny the statistical insignificance of the science. LOL I understand precision and error VERY well. But LOL that ignorant duffer that argues with me on that point should realize that the same argument applies to the supposed "benefit" that he claims for his "forgiving" clubs.

 

So I guess what I am rambling to is that it can NEVER hurt you to use science as a foundation for your club choices and if you are technical like me then every infinitesimal advantage *can* provide a psychological edge in your mind, feeding your confidence and trust.

 

Oh and also I'm saying that *if* you choose a CB over a blade, then you aren't choosing it based on the true and complete science. It only works for you because you've convinced yourself of it. And I'm fine with this.

 

DeNinny you are spot on! I've been told numerous times here that I'm full of crap when I say my scores never suffer when I put blades in the bag as a 12 handicap. I've even been called delusional by some. For me playing Ping G's now I've found that there is only a trade off playing GI irons. I may get a little more distance on mishits with the G's but my short game suffers compared to playing blades.

[Bigmean]

maaaaahhhhh gggggggoooooooddddnneeesssss

 

 

http://blog.tourspecgolf.com/mizuno-yoro-craft-mp-5s/

 

That toe is straight dirty. Best mp5s I have seen.

 

 

[Nard_S]

I'm so glad I hopped in this thread. You guys are as OCD and analytical about golf as I am lol.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. Not all of us. In regards to club building, I'm OCD. Everything else is just golf. If I hit an iron to the back of the green, I dont stand there to laser it to see where I hit it from. Typically just default to "I guess I just hit that iron exactly as an iron was intended to be hit and caught it as clean as I could" and come to the conclusion that my gapping isn't my problem. It's a lack of repetition. :)

 

My brain on the golf course is just a thunderstorm. Or a hungry hungry hippo game played by toddlers.

 

If that came off as negative, I apologize, as it wasn't meant in a negative manner. I'm DEFINITELY over analytical about everything in my golf game and overthink the most minute issues lol. My brain never stops when on the driving range or the course. Kinda sucks really..

 

Anyways, of recent acquired knowledge, I have learned that my apex have to go. I do believe I have them sold locally within two hours of deciding to sell. So I will put the burden on you fine gentlemen to help me figure out what to purchase. I told my wife I would bank some dough so I must adhere to a budget. I'm thinking no more than $500 purchase (because i still have to loft/lie and grip the new MP33s coming) and something fairly newer. My mind automatically goes to Srixon Z945 or MP5? What kind of suggestions in that price range do you guys think? I could possibly end up bagging the MP33s for a while anyway but just as some of you guys know and can relate to, I'm a club ho. Theres no way I can sell a set of irons and not purchase another, just not happening. Help!!

 

Why not MP4's?

[turtsoup]

I'm so glad I hopped in this thread. You guys are as OCD and analytical about golf as I am lol.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. Not all of us. In regards to club building, I'm OCD. Everything else is just golf. If I hit an iron to the back of the green, I dont stand there to laser it to see where I hit it from. Typically just default to "I guess I just hit that iron exactly as an iron was intended to be hit and caught it as clean as I could" and come to the conclusion that my gapping isn't my problem. It's a lack of repetition. :)

 

My brain on the golf course is just a thunderstorm. Or a hungry hungry hippo game played by toddlers.

 

If that came off as negative, I apologize, as it wasn't meant in a negative manner. I'm DEFINITELY over analytical about everything in my golf game and overthink the most minute issues lol. My brain never stops when on the driving range or the course. Kinda sucks really..

 

Anyways, of recent acquired knowledge, I have learned that my apex have to go. I do believe I have them sold locally within two hours of deciding to sell. So I will put the burden on you fine gentlemen to help me figure out what to purchase. I told my wife I would bank some dough so I must adhere to a budget. I'm thinking no more than $500 purchase (because i still have to loft/lie and grip the new MP33s coming) and something fairly newer. My mind automatically goes to Srixon Z945 or MP5? What kind of suggestions in that price range do you guys think? I could possibly end up bagging the MP33s for a while anyway but just as some of you guys know and can relate to, I'm a club ho. Theres no way I can sell a set of irons and not purchase another, just not happening. Help!!

 

Why not MP4's?

 

Honestly? Because I don't know the difference between the models. I've never played mizunos in my life. Haven't done the research. Guess I was looking more for personal knowledge than internet reviews

[DeNinny]

turtsoup, you are going to be hard pressed to find a better designed Mizuno blade than the mp33. If you want more Mizuno feel, but different design, then the mp5 and 32 will fit this need, but realize they are both a departure from the classic design rather than an all-out "improvement".

 

So if you want something different than Mizuno's feel but still want a pure blade design, there are many more options, modern and/or past.

 

My suggestion is to get a small blade head design and still classic...Fg59, baby blade come to mind. To me you have Mizuno covered with the 33s.

 

Oh and I think you are great too and am glad you joined us (hence why I added you as a WRX friend). LOL with your avatar add and WITB sig and then jumping to blades and ditching CBs, you have become a seasoned WRXer in just a few days. As stated, "the Force is strong in you..."

[Nard_S]

 

 

Honestly? Because I don't know the difference between the models. I've never played mizunos in my life. Haven't done the research. Guess I was looking more for personal knowledge than internet reviews

 

I have not hit either but from the "Hostrology" and from what a lot of others have said, the MP4's are righteous. To my eye they look nicer too.

 

I buy stuff that is old. For $500, I like the Titleist 681 (though due to hickory insert they must have factory shafts), for $350 or so a mint set of 1999-2000 Hogan Apex. You want a really small head without the Miura BB price? Wilson FG 59 can be had on budget.I'm basically recommending a 1/3 of my collection :)

[turtsoup]

You boys are on the same level. I like your style. Thanks again for all the insight. I "could" spring for some Miuras if I'm a touch patient and sell one more item I believe.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

My Pw is 47 I think, 9 is 43? 8 39? It has been a while, I thought I was 1* stronger than normal(blade normal) because of switching with a cb set. When I got my BB I made them same loft and lie as my mizzys.

 

Now I am really curious on that putter NCN. I put the hammer on it when it was at $180 to go all in with my balance at like $400, and that got blown out of the water and it ended at like 57,000JPY, like whoa. I must have a good eye for this stuff because my gut said go everything. It has to be a $1000 putter to have the locals drive that up like that.

 

You had a go for it, did you? That's a crazy finishing price though, considering what it started at. Can you remember how many bid on it?

[wmblake2000]

, I have learned that my apex have to go. I do believe I have them sold locally within two hours of deciding to sell. So I will put the burden on you fine gentlemen to help me figure out what to purchase. I told my wife I would bank some dough so I must adhere to a budget. Theres no way I can sell a set of irons and not purchase another, just not happening. Help!!

 

The only advice I have is, don't settle. Once you start focusing in on the overall aesthetic of a golf club, once you get an image of an ideal in your mind and then think 'too pricey' and instead buy option b, option b only lasts a short while.

 

There are so so so many fine blades out there these days. It's like the revitalized sales of vinyl. Like the original, only better.

 

Have fun!

[DeNinny]

You boys are on the same level. I like your style. Thanks again for all the insight. I "could" spring for some Miuras if I'm a touch patient and sell one more item I believe.

 

I understand everyone's issues about the BB cost, but I say that if you can at all afford it, then buy a set. So you know how that first pure strike with your mp33 felt as compared to your LOL forgotten Apexes? Like nothing you ever felt before, correct? Well that is how a BB feels in comparison to your mp33. Just extrapolate that blissful feeling even more and that is what you get with a BB. And it never gets old. So to me they are worth every penny brand new. They took the game to another level for me in feel for sure, but they are also on a lesser level the most "forgiving" AND workable clubs that I have ever tried. And I still switch back to my mp67s and Retro TBs to confirm this. So if you are at all considering it and have a financial means, yes absolutely you should get BBs.

 

Also patience is a virtue.

[wmblake2000]

 

Harvey Penick said that the right club to hit is usually the first one that you think of when you picture the shot in front if you. Harvey's take...If it looks like a 6-iron at first glance and you then change your mind and pick up a 5-iron instead you will typically under hit the shot. Conversely if you pick up a 7-iron you will typically try to hit it too hard and mishit it anyway. I know from years of playing that I typically hit a 7-iron 150ish yards. However, before I check the yardage markers on the course (I don't have a rangefinder), I look at the shot and get an immediate feel for the club I need to play the shot that I am picturing. For example, if the shot is in to a wind coming off the right, I am probably thinking of hitting a fade to hold the line and I'm automatically thinking of the club that will give me the flight I need. I'll then check the yardage from the on course markers and the pick the club. If the shot is 150 yards, I'm pulling a 6- or even a 5-iron allowing for the loss of distance because of the fade and the wind.

 

There are so many variables day to day that can change how far the ball travels, let alone the variables in the swing, I think the focus on exact yardages for every club can be misplaced. Golf to me will always be more a game of feel and shot-making, than a game of science (sorry DeNinny ;-)).

 

Watching the Pros put umpteen balls in the water on 17 at Sawgrass proves that knowing your yardages can be rendered useless if all of the other factors aren't taken into consideration properly.

 

This also makes a lot of sense to me and is really the art of the game. The one thing for me is, these days some says I hit it really long (for me) and other days just regular. So this kinda clouds my intuitive sense. Maybe this is just a transition phase....

[DeNinny]

wmblake, by design a CB creates a theoretically more inconsistent spin. This makes prediction of a specific distance that you hit it more difficult. By switching to a blade you will be able to hone the precision of your swing down to more specific spin and distances, thereby enabling you to predict your own yardages better. Again this is by design. By the science that can help you. I'm not saying your CBs are all of your problems with judging distances, but they are a theoretical contributor to it. I'm hoping that in reading this that you can really trust in the benefits of your blades and this distance issue you mention is a perfect example of where a blade is better and the science can help you *if* you align your psychology to it.

[wmblake2000]

mahonie, in my experience it is best to combine BOTH feel/shot-making AND science. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In my mind they are complementary to each other. That was my point to wmblake2000 earlier. When science makes up your psyche, then the science IS part of psychology!

 

That is fair enough and makes sense. It sort of begs the question, chicken or the egg. You have a sense of certainty in your assessment that blades are superior, and again, fair enough. This creates confidence. So you play better with blades. Was it the blades or your belief in them? Both, perhaps. I, on the other hand, am much less influenced by any such analysis. So many 'irrational' forces feed my sense of confidence or lack thereof. But I totally get what you're saying about you.

 

Here's the thing. Creating confidence is really important. I'd hit it with Tin Cup's rake if I had the most confidence in it. But that rake also offends my aesthetic sense, so I frankly discount the objective feedback some (or a lot). Bias and predisposition play undeniable roles. So I end up not being able to develop confidence in it. (Nor do I want to change this. I guess I could if I really wanted to). The thing that's not a constant is ... me. Some days I feel like a nut and some days I don't (now try to get the Mounds/Almond Joy jingle out of your head). So I end up with no 'science' or 'objectivity' at all in what creates the conditions for confidence. Of course, finally, the swing's the thing.

 

Maybe what all this rambling is trying to say is, there are so many variables in playing golf confidently and while, like you and so many others here, I love playing blades - yesterday I played a tournament and there was no question in my mind which irons I trusted more...the Honma CBs. I knew I was going to hit a lot of 5-6 irons (and hybrids and FW wood) on this 6800 yard track and very few 7-W. Now, I will also confess, in recreational rounds, I hit my blades equally well, even the long irons. Yet, in spite of this, I am certain I look at the Honma with more confidence under pressure. Why? Who knows? Maybe the 'marketing' has won me over, maybe the decades of stinging hands with blades is still in there. Maybe I do the same thing as I described with the rake and discount the results. But the bottom line is those are the ones I trust the most.

 

And all I'm saying is that you can use and fully TRUST the superiority of blades to help your psychological decision making. Just at least open your mind to it. You fully admit that you may not have a scientifically rational reason that you play a rake or CB but somewhere in your psyche you have confidence in it. That is fine by me and I fully respect that and even more so than the science ignorant duffer that claims his rake or CB has "science" helping him because LOL I'm sorry but a blade design is superior in ALL technical ways with the lone exception that miss hits just don't FEEL as harsh. Without getting into minutia arguments, this is all you really get from those clubs and I can give all the irrefutable science to support this AND I can point out the technical flaws and HALF-TRUTHS of contrary marketed "physics". It really isn't that hard of a physics problem anymore. So anyway, my point is that *if* more golfers just realized that "forgiveness" is really (and truly) a technical SHAM and that blades really are better for clean ball contact and more precise control over the ball, for all skill levels mind you, then their whole psyche about them and the other clubs that are technically worse would change. Their MINDs would be OPEN to other possibilities that could be used to build a scientifically backed TRUST and CONFIDENCE in blades.

 

And I fully don't deny the statistical insignificance of the science. LOL I understand precision and error VERY well. But LOL that ignorant duffer that argues with me on that point should realize that the same argument applies to the supposed "benefit" that he claims for his "forgiving" clubs.

 

So I guess what I am rambling to is that it can NEVER hurt you to use science as a foundation for your club choices and if you are technical like me then every infinitesimal advantage *can* provide a psychological edge in your mind, feeding your confidence and trust.

 

Oh and also I'm saying that *if* you choose a CB over a blade, then you aren't choosing it based on the true and complete science. It only works for you because you've convinced yourself of it. And I'm fine with this.

 

Ok, I am going to play a little longer and see if this can stay fun and not get into a debate over the unresolvable.

 

First, let me state as fact that minds process input very differently. We all know this to some degree or another. I know this as a deep fact and there is enormous science behind it. Where it gets tricky is the criteria we use to assign better or lessor capabilities to very different ways of thinking because the objectives of the different processes may be profoundly different, even if there is a clearly defined problem statement.

 

So when you say 'you'd see things my way because it is most rational, if you opened yourself to it' - well, in a way you're right. All I need is a mind transplant. But since those are very rare, and I'll have to use the mind I have on hand, I'll have to filter input the way I do, which is definitely not the way you do. That 'science' of yours a) lacks real empirical punch (where's the unbiased study?) and b) doesn't pass my smell test. So with this, your attempts to convince me are almost counter-productive,., except that hell, this is just us nerds talking golf and so why get bent out of shape?

 

So I will give you this, just because you're a fellow UC guy (UCLA here). Next tourney I'll play blades. Just for you. And I will of course try to score with them. I will report what happens, both with my mind set and my score.

[braincramp52]

Have any of you guys ever played the Wilson FG62 blades and if so, what was your opinion?