Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[DeNinny]

Yeah I remember you asking about shaft tech and science very early in this thread and at the time I hadn't thought through everything at the level that I just explained. And LOL I wanted to discuss it back then, but I am glad time went by in order for me to think through the physics a little better.

 

Ha! Yep I've been trying to figure out shafts forever...

 

Stay tuned then. I got more stuff coming tonight when I get back to my computer and can post a pic with "data".

 

Ok so here is some "data" to support what I was saying earlier about accelerating the clubhead and how that will bend the shaft.

 

 

 

This is data collected from Rory swinging a driver. Pay attention to the top (brown) trend line, the Club Head velocity trend as the swing progresses. The area shaded grey in the background is the time from the top of the backswing (at about 0.85 seconds) to impact (at about 1.15 seconds). It is during this time that the clubhead is clearly accelerating because you can see the severe increase in the velocity (the y-scale) over the short time (the x-scale). That is clearly acceleration at its finest. The clubhead goes from almost 0 mph to just under 120 mph in less than about 0.3 seconds. So clearly as this is happening, there is a force imposed on the shaft to both bend it (as mentioned before) AND twist it. I forgot to mention this twist force, but it is there since the CG of the clubhead is offset from the shaft. As that CG is accelerated, by the laws of physics and materials science, it will put both of these forces on the shaft.

 

But wait! There's more! Look closer at the trend line at the beginning of the downswing initially. Is it a straight line, which would indicate that acceleration is constant? No!!! It is a curved trend that curves in the upward direction more and more as time goes by. This means that the RATE of acceleration is increasing more and more. This is why I said that initially in the downswing there is higher acceleration which causes the shaft to bend the most (and twist).

 

And of course, there's even more to the story here. Look at the trend later in the downswing and as impact is approached, what is happening to the trend shape? It is starting to curve downward! There is still acceleration, but it is at a lower RATE than early in the downswing. What this means is that there is less acceleration on the clubhead and thus a weaker force on the shaft. So at this point in the downswing, the shaft will basically be unloading, and in that process there is slightly added clubhead speed from the shaft going from bent (and twisted) to straight. And it should make sense that there is slightly lower acceleration as impact is approached because the clubhead is getting farther away from the golfer and so by that alone there will be loss of clubhead speed that can only be countered by continuing to accelerate the clubhead. The MOI of the swing itself increases as the clubhead gets farther away from the swing center of rotation (which is the point between the shoulder sockets).

 

So this is the supporting "data" behind what I was saying earlier about how there will be a loading and unloading effect on the shaft and that if it is too weak, then it will come into impact with too much bend and then this will make it difficult to load and then unload in a consistent manner. This is why dispersion gets worse if the shaft flex is too weak.

 

And on the flipside, if the shaft flex is too strong, there will be a little less physical bending of the shaft, BUT...the force is still the same regardless of the shaft flex, so really it is not that bad to play a stiffer shaft. Plus the dispersion will be better because literally the clubhead doesn't bend (and twist) as much. Anytime there is bending, the act of unbending will add variability to the shot result.

 

Also one more thing to point out from this data is that clearly we will all produce a different Club Head velocity curve for our swings, but the overall trend curvature will be similar and so there will still be varying forces on the clubhead, which means that every swing has a theoretically ideal shaft or range of shafts that will load and unload the most optimally as possible for that particular swing. But then there is still other variables so it makes stressing about the details seem overwhelming. Because of all the variables in the physics of bending the shaft, it is impossible to try and derive the perfect shaft "calculation" in order to determine the "best" shaft in terms of flex, weight, bend profile / kick point, etc. To me you get in the ballpark of the right shaft (and err on the stiff side) and you will be fine. The shaft itself will dictate the optimal tempo and rhythm to load it anyway and so the golfer will either have to adjust to match this ideal or he needs to find a different shaft.

[DeNinny]

So ultimately that is why I say that it is better to err on the side of using a stiffer shaft as opposed to a weaker flex one. Avoid overpowering a weak shaft is the main priority because that is more damaging to the shot.

 

This makes total sense to me and is consistent with my experience. I would just add to it that a stiffer shaft will encourage a more accelerated motion around impact.

 

I deleted the part where you talked about swinging to the club and am too lazy to restore it. But on this point we see the same thing. That's good to know because I think understanding shafts is among the murkiest of all golf topics.

 

The thing is, again based on the physics, is that in order to make a stiffer flex shaft load and unload the same physical amount as a weaker flex one, you HAVE to accelerate the swing more. Stiffer flex just means you need more force to bend it the same amount as weaker flex. So if a golfer switches to stiffer flex, he MUST swing it a little more aggressively in order for it to "kick" the same as his weaker flex shaft (all other things equal, of course).

 

Yeah I remember you asking about shaft tech and science very early in this thread and at the time I hadn't thought through everything at the level that I just explained. And LOL I wanted to discuss it back then, but I am glad time went by in order for me to think through the physics a little better.

Pardon the interruption but you've got me thinking about my project X, which is reshafting a set of mp 69's from S 300 to Nippon 8950 and bring those unborn Lords of the links to life! It could become my version of Cinderella; I'll keep you posted.

 

That combo is going to turn your JPX into a pumpkin.

 

It's your Mission Impossible.

[dog flog]

One thing for sure, I have to be able to play more, or none of it means shite.

[Ghost_556]

I have a DG R300 in an old Spaulding 5 wood that is just an accurate little club. I've also used some Dynalites as well and they were a good shaft. Brunswick Precision made a nice light shaft called the Phoenix which was a frequency matched shaft like the rifle, but with steps. I'm not sure how I ended up on the DG road. I guess I figured it was what I was supposed to be playing, and tried to fit my swing to it. But I guess I finally realized that I've always gotten my best results with a lighter, firm tipped shaft in a flex between R and S. I think how a player releases has a lot to do with making a shaft work too.

 

I believe in the old analogy that the player is the motor and the shaft is like the transmission. So the right motor- transmission pairing gets the most horsepower to the ball.

 

It's coinciding with my realization I need to slow and smooth my swing out to keep better balance. Working on that has made my contact point on irons much more consistent, and the Nippon shaft seems like a great pairing as it feels like it kicks through a smooth release nicely.

[craz-e]

Dynamic gold user here but getting the itch to try some Nippon's!

[mahonie]

The only issue I have ever had with shafts was when I did a fitting with the Mizuno DNA shaft profiler. Iirc the three shafts that were recommended were: DG XP95 S300, Project X 5.0 and KBS Tour 90. There was not a lot between the DG or KBS shafts, although I preferred the feel of the KBS. The PX just resulted in weak slices. I was coming from Rifle Flighted 5.5s which felt great but added to my already high trajectory.

 

I then bought some Nike Split Cavities on close out with standard S300s and they were fine. I have played them in every set since. As age starts taking its toll on swing speed, I am thinking of reshafting my MP4s with something lighter...Nippon and Shimada have piqued my interest.

[noahdavis_7]

Well, the MP68s came in and needless to say, after a full session.... I love them. So smooth when struck well. They're also much more accurate than my Ap1s. I was dropping balls on top of each other! Also seems like they launch higher and land softer. They're a tad shorter, maybe half a club or so, (I need to check this on a LM) but overall I am very very happy. I'll try to get some pics up by the end of the day. I was pretty impressed with the quality from Callaway pre owned as well. PW and 9 iron had a pretty good browning spot and the clubs had some bag chatter but other than that they were in awesome shape. Pumped to get these bad boys on the course! Feels good to be part of "the club" haha

[kaaayelll]

Aaarrrrggghhh. Since Golfsmith closed shop (there was one about 2 miles from me ... it was like my personal supply shop) getting things like ferrules is a pain. Shops will sell them (sometimes, if they have extras). After a lot of work, I found one with .355 ferrules. Took the 105s off the Mizunos, cleaned them up, got the dry swingweight numbers (and liked what I saw raw - the set needed limited tweaking to have an MOI-balancing like increase in SW) mixed the epoxy, put the first head on - and the ferrules are too small. Must be .335. Crap. I was going to play the Miuras tomorrow.

 

So now maybe I will order spiffy ferrules online. I put some carbon ferrules on the shinagawas, but I was underwhelmed by the impact. I actually tend to like being understated - I mean, the Miuras make their own statement.

 

Rats, I am really excited to play them. Oh well, it'll happen.

C, look on eBay for Grail Golf ferrules. Inside diameter of .355" (obviously) and outside diameter if .580 should work perfectly with the BB and require no turning. I go with the 1". That reminds me, I need to order some...

 

Personally, I always find the simple elegance of a black ferrule hard to beat. I have a set or two with rings, but black is the main color.

[NRJyzr]

More NV105 update...

 

Took them to course for 9 holes of golf league. Hit range beforehand. Range was just so-so, but on the course was fairly ugly. It wasn't just the irons, it was everything. I shot 48 for 9 holes. I hit trees. I wound up behind trees. My good putts were left just short and on line, my bad putts were considerably short. I think I had four doubles in nine holes.

 

I *did* hit a good 1 iron off the tee on the final hole, though. Didn't do a damn thing with it, of course, but at least I had that to think about. LOL

 

Supposed to play this afternoon. Wish me luck. I apparently need it.

[wmblake2000]

Aaarrrrggghhh. Since Golfsmith closed shop (there was one about 2 miles from me ... it was like my personal supply shop) getting things like ferrules is a pain. Shops will sell them (sometimes, if they have extras). After a lot of work, I found one with .355 ferrules. Took the 105s off the Mizunos, cleaned them up, got the dry swingweight numbers (and liked what I saw raw - the set needed limited tweaking to have an MOI-balancing like increase in SW) mixed the epoxy, put the first head on - and the ferrules are too small. Must be .335. Crap. I was going to play the Miuras tomorrow.

 

So now maybe I will order spiffy ferrules online. I put some carbon ferrules on the shinagawas, but I was underwhelmed by the impact. I actually tend to like being understated - I mean, the Miuras make their own statement.

 

Rats, I am really excited to play them. Oh well, it'll happen.

C, look on eBay for Grail Golf ferrules. Inside diameter of .355" (obviously) and outside diameter if .580 should work perfectly with the BB and require no turning. I go with the 1". That reminds me, I need to order some...

 

Personally, I always find the simple elegance of a black ferrule hard to beat. I have a set or two with rings, but black is the main color.

 

Great, thx. I've seen their store and now I will order from it. Black. The no turning is a big plus.

 

But I sure woke up disappointed not to play them today. Think I'll give the Mac Vfoils a little time in the bag.

[wmblake2000]

More NV105 update...

 

Took them to course for 9 holes of golf league. Hit range beforehand. Range was just so-so, but on the course was fairly ugly. It wasn't just the irons, it was everything. I shot 48 for 9 holes. I hit trees. I wound up behind trees. My good putts were left just short and on line, my bad putts were considerably short. I think I had four doubles in nine holes.

 

I *did* hit a good 1 iron off the tee on the final hole, though. Didn't do a damn thing with it, of course, but at least I had that to think about. LOL

 

Supposed to play this afternoon. Wish me luck. I apparently need it.

 

It's a stupid game. I am sure it causes brain damage.

[NRJyzr]

More NV105 update...

 

Took them to course for 9 holes of golf league. Hit range beforehand. Range was just so-so, but on the course was fairly ugly. It wasn't just the irons, it was everything. I shot 48 for 9 holes. I hit trees. I wound up behind trees. My good putts were left just short and on line, my bad putts were considerably short. I think I had four doubles in nine holes.

 

I *did* hit a good 1 iron off the tee on the final hole, though. Didn't do a damn thing with it, of course, but at least I had that to think about. LOL

 

Supposed to play this afternoon. Wish me luck. I apparently need it.

 

It's a stupid game. I am sure it causes brain damage.

 

It's funny you'd say that. I used to be very good remembering people's names, even people I'd only met once years before. These days, I find myself sometimes forgetting names of people I've just met.

 

The difference? I started playing golf just before my 35th birthday.

 

Yes, it's all clear now....

[wmblake2000]

More NV105 update...

 

Took them to course for 9 holes of golf league. Hit range beforehand. Range was just so-so, but on the course was fairly ugly. It wasn't just the irons, it was everything. I shot 48 for 9 holes. I hit trees. I wound up behind trees. My good putts were left just short and on line, my bad putts were considerably short. I think I had four doubles in nine holes.

 

I *did* hit a good 1 iron off the tee on the final hole, though. Didn't do a damn thing with it, of course, but at least I had that to think about. LOL

 

Supposed to play this afternoon. Wish me luck. I apparently need it.

 

It's a stupid game. I am sure it causes brain damage.

 

It's funny you'd say that. I used to be very good remembering people's names, even people I'd only met once years before. These days, I find myself sometimes forgetting names of people I've just met.

 

The difference? I started playing golf just before my 35th birthday.

 

Yes, it's all clear now....

 

I play as a single a lot and meet new people. If I don't write their names down within 20 secs...poof. Gone. Then it's 'good shot, bud' for the rest of the round unless I tell them 'I'm brain damaged and forgot your name'

[DeNinny]

 

Great, thx. I've seen their store and now I will order from it. Black. The no turning is a big plus.

 

But I sure woke up disappointed not to play them today. Think I'll give the Mac Vfoils a little time in the bag.

 

FWIW 0.570" is the best ferrule OD size for BBs. My fitter put calipers to my black borons and they came out to 0.567" OD at the hosel stem. The white ones I put on my Porn Stars are 0.570".

[wmblake2000]

Great, thx. I've seen their store and now I will order from it. Black. The no turning is a big plus.

 

But I sure woke up disappointed not to play them today. Think I'll give the Mac Vfoils a little time in the bag.

 

FWIW 0.570" is the best ferrule OD size for BBs. My fitter put calipers to my black borons and they came out to 0.567" OD at the hosel stem. The white ones I put on my Porn Stars are 0.570".

 

Well that settles it. I need calipers.

 

PS: I am surprised you don't do your own work... It's the last frontier of nerddom.

[DeNinny]

Great, thx. I've seen their store and now I will order from it. Black. The no turning is a big plus.

 

But I sure woke up disappointed not to play them today. Think I'll give the Mac Vfoils a little time in the bag.

 

FWIW 0.570" is the best ferrule OD size for BBs. My fitter put calipers to my black borons and they came out to 0.567" OD at the hosel stem. The white ones I put on my Porn Stars are 0.570".

 

Well that settles it. I need calipers.

 

PS: I am surprised you don't do your own work... It's the last frontier of nerddom.

 

Yeah I would like to set up my own little fitting shop in my garage someday. I want to do grips, loft/lie adjustments, and shaft work on my own. I just need the time and capital. Maybe when I turn 65...

[Bigmean]

Great, thx. I've seen their store and now I will order from it. Black. The no turning is a big plus.

 

But I sure woke up disappointed not to play them today. Think I'll give the Mac Vfoils a little time in the bag.

 

FWIW 0.570" is the best ferrule OD size for BBs. My fitter put calipers to my black borons and they came out to 0.567" OD at the hosel stem. The white ones I put on my Porn Stars are 0.570".

 

Well that settles it. I need calipers.

 

PS: I am surprised you don't do your own work... It's the last frontier of nerddom.

 

You don't own calipers???? Hahaha.....I have like 4 but just keep one set around the house in case. Oddly my wife used them the other night to help my daughter with her school project. She made a fidget spinner on the 3D printer and needed sizes for the bearings and round weights. Everyone should have calipers laying around haha.

[kaaayelll]

This is correct. I just double-checked a .580" ferrule and it is ever so slightly big. It may just be the closest Grail has without being small, though .560" would hardly be an issue. My builder has a preference for Grail's quality.

[DeNinny]

So I practiced after work today and met a guy on the range with a set of Z945 MBs. We talked about blades and he was totally on board with them being the better irons in every way and how forgiveness is a joke. He said he tried JPXs and AP2s and both were worse than his 945s. LOL we both agreed that blades are getting more rare so meeting fellow users is a nice surprise. We swapped 6is for a little and I can't say that I was impressed with the Z945s. Not a fan, but still better than a CB.

[wmblake2000]

 

You don't own calipers???? Hahaha.....I have like 4 but just keep one set around the house in case. Oddly my wife used them the other night to help my daughter with her school project. She made a fidget spinner on the 3D printer and needed sizes for the bearings and round weights. Everyone should have calipers laying around haha.

 

True confession ... I hardly knew what a caliper was until I was trying to figure out how to drill precise holes for the swingweight scale. None were large enough to measure those lengths.

 

I found some ferrules that fit perfectly at the large Roger Dunn shop after playing 18 today (badly. Ugh) Will build the BB tomorrow!

 

I played with my friend who is LPGA teacher. She's in her early 50's, played a little in Japan LPGA back in the day. Now her back is pretty bad and she fights the yips, but she can still play decent when she's on. We play - loser has to tell the other one in public 'you're the greatest golfer I ever saw' I generally win but always play awful with her.

 

Anyway 18th hole. We both really sucked overall today and the hole was for the match. She was away. I never saw anyone do this before. She was hitting a mid iron and hit it so fat that the club bounced ... she damn near whiffed it but the ball sort of curled left with hook/overspin about 3 feet (she's r handed) with enough spin that it literally ended up behind her, a foot or so farther from the hole. Unbelievable.

 

I laughed so hard I fell down and she was also laughing as hard for a long time. It was literally the worst shot I ever saw anyone make. A shot that magnificent and rare --- I wish I had video. It's like that bad movie that's so bad that it's good. I am in awe of that shot.

 

Has anyone ever seen a shot that didn't hit anything end up behind the player? I bet not. Sort of like the double eagle, on the other end of the spectrum.

 

Good god this game is nuts.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Took off to the range today as my usual Saturday classroom was being used to prepare for a big festival. My wife`s father is on just about every community committee and he will dress up like a samurai tomorrow. But, of course I forgot to book the day off to see it.

 

Took the Tourney R58 4,7,9 and a couple gap wedges along with my driver and 5 wood. (OOO just had an earthquake, right as Han Solo was killed by his son, on the tube).

 

Anyway, safe, and hit the long irons pretty well after I loosened up. I was alternating the 7 and the 4 every few shots (an old trick to get the long iron swing a little more in rhythm. I wasn`t crushing it, but the traj was a little lower, so that felt better. The FM maybe don`t feel as crisp/lively as TTDG. Think I will add a touch of lead to the heads and see what that does. The next step is pulling heads and just going back to DGs for now. Or I have another set of the R58s I might strip the chrome off and the shaft.

 

The nicest thing about today was I started to really lace driver. My swing felt a little tighter (in a good way) and I belted 5 or 6 drives in a row with slightly higher than medium trajectory rope fades. Really liking the 915 with the ADMJ now that I cut a 1/2 inch off the butt.

 

And, more importantly, I get the feeling there`s something to be said for the narrowed focus you get from hitting blades. I am starting to find my old swing. Now to find time to play.

 

Gonna check where that earthquake hit, before that.

[wmblake2000]

The BB are all glued up. Modus 105s. It's like waiting for the recess bell to ring ... can't swing them till tomorrow.

[DeNinny]

Played my satin BBs today. Felt guilty cheating on my Porn Stars, so I shot 86. In the process I decided that I really need leather grips on the satins. Can't stand anything but leather anymore.

 

wmblake it is more like waiting on a hottie to start unzipping your pants, but whatevas. I'm truly excited for you. You are going to love them.

[wmblake2000]

Going to a grass range first thing in the morning. Normally Sun am is honey do's. I did em all today so I could break em in. They look sweet in the bag. I hate that I'm gonna put covers on them but I already bought them. All my headcovers are now generic black.

 

I'll play them Tuesday... all day.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Took off to the range today as my usual Saturday classroom was being used to prepare for a big festival. My wife`s father is on just about every community committee and he will dress up like a samurai tomorrow. But, of course I forgot to book the day off to see it.

 

Took the Tourney R58 4,7,9 and a couple gap wedges along with my driver and 5 wood. (OOO just had an earthquake, right as Han Solo was killed by his son, on the tube).

 

 

I've think I saw that parade a good few years ago. It wasn't not very interesting. Just lots of blokes dressed up in costume walking down the street. The novelty quickly wore off.

[Bigmean]

Took off to the range today as my usual Saturday classroom was being used to prepare for a big festival. My wife`s father is on just about every community committee and he will dress up like a samurai tomorrow. But, of course I forgot to book the day off to see it.

 

Took the Tourney R58 4,7,9 and a couple gap wedges along with my driver and 5 wood. (OOO just had an earthquake, right as Han Solo was killed by his son, on the tube).

 

 

I've think I saw that parade a good few years ago. It wasn't not very interesting. Just lots of blokes dressed up in costume walking down the street. The novelty quickly wore off.

 

That is every parade in every culture everywhere in the world.....

 

 

 

My BBs came with headcovers, not going to lie, I tried to use them because the realness of the expense was fresh in my mind and possibility of me not liking them and reselling was even more real. Very first round by the turn all we in the cart basket but 3 or so, even with possible resale at stake, I didn't have the fortitude to make it 1 round using iron covers.

[DeNinny]

I like the psychological boost myself looking at my sexy clubs as I am selecting one for my next shot. I want full confidence and nothing but positive thoughts in my head as I am starting my PSR. Headcovers don't take away from this because eventually you see the club but they are still a PITA to put on and off on during the round.

[NRJyzr]

Played again yesterday with the Golden Ram/NV105 set...

 

After the disastrous first five or six holes with them Thursday, I've adjusted moderately well to hitting these. The weight is still an adjustment, after 18 years of playing fairly heavy shafts, but it's getting there. Amusingly, I've hooked a 5 iron three times now on the par 3, 13th hole, from overswinging/overreleasing. Managed to shoot an 81 yesterday, with a double on #18 after hitting my tee shot in the water. With a 3 iron. So much for "use an iron for control" off the tee. LOL

 

The other interesting thing I did was use my Golden Ram TW Custom putter. I've generally been using fairly heavy putters the last few years, and this being some 25 years old, it's far from that. I've added quite a few strips of lead tape along the flange, but it's still lighter than what I've been using. And.... I putted better with it than I have with anything else this season. Shows what I know.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

That is every parade in every culture everywhere in the world.....

 

Fair point.

[wmblake2000]

I will take the covers off during the round... one of the pleasures of a fine club is seeing it in the bag. The covers are for pre and post round transport and to not advertise 'steal these.' But I am well aware that that this may have the half life of a mosquito.