Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[Christen_The_Sloop]

C_T_L

With the FM 6.5s, going left wasn't a problem I had. Sure it's not your over the top move that's causing it?

 

And I did a GIS for the Daiwa Advisors. I see what you mean about no toe, especially in the short irons. Nice looking club, though. What's the offset like in the short irons?

 

I`ll pull`em out when the wife goes to sleep. If my short term memory serves me there`s not much. Only had a few minutes to look at them. Their toe looks a lot like Mizuno MS 1 or 3. I actually really dig it. There was another thread about boxy toes, got me wanting a set like that again. I think, when I want something first class, I`ll go YORO, but these one`s tick my boxes for classics = rare, clean and simple. And they cost less than a bottle of sake, so I`ve got that going for me.

 

So around 2,000 yen? Good price, even if just for heads (assuming they are in decent condition). Got a set of shafts for them?

 

I`ve got S200, S300 or X100. I think the 200s will go nicely. I think it`s rather funny you see TT coming out with a `new` 120 gram shaft - could it just be a rebadged - s200? i am so tempted by Modus3 120 or 105, but before I can think of that I have to do a little house cleaning. Because they are just heads, I am tempted to strip them, but the faces are really really clean. The only blemish is some rust on the back of the 4 irons which is nothing because they will def get some lead tape.

 

As for the R58. They are meaty blades and they aren`t long heel to toe. Maybe a touch more offset than I`d like... If I had to complain about anything. I could get used to them though.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I`ve got S200, S300 or X100. I think the 200s will go nicely. I think it`s rather funny you see TT coming out with a `new` 120 gram shaft - could it just be a rebadged - s200? i am so tempted by Modus3 120 or 105, but before I can think of that I have to do a little house cleaning. Because they are just heads, I am tempted to strip them, but the faces are really really clean. The only blemish is some rust on the back of the 4 irons which is nothing because they will def get some lead tape.

 

As for the R58. They are meaty blades and they aren`t long heel to toe. Maybe a touch more offset than I`d like... If I had to complain about anything. I could get used to them though.

 

I agree with you on the offset. The short irons have that reverse face progression thing going on, which is so unnecessary, especially with this particular set. I have gotten used to it with a lot of Japanese iron sets from that era, but the R58s would be so much better off without it.

As for shafts, well you have plenty of available options. Isn't the S200 127g? Not much different from the X100.

 

Recently I have been tempted by the Modus 120 X flex. Higher launch than DGX100 from what I have read, but should be just as stable. The 130X is another one I want to look at. Supposed to land well.

[wmblake2000]

 

I came to believe many years ago that sooner or later your swing will find the COG of a club . Over the past year of hoeing and trying out new acquisitions that belief was re-affirmed in very little time. It is not necessarily the sweet spot but it is the bias where your wear marks ill be.

 

.

 

I definitely 'swing to the club' ... but isn't the COG = sweetspot?

[DeNinny]

Did you buy them in black boron that was done from Miura? I thought it was a refinished set is why I asked...if that is from factory then it will be a nice finish. That is sick though if factory!!!! Black finishes non factory suck, or better yet, I suck at luck with them.

 

Clubs have a balance point, and as I understand it, that is the sweet spot. There is a pin sized sweet spot that will create the least amount of vibration if nailed there. I don't think this is really up for debate, I am not sure if I misunderstood what you said about it though or if there is more science that is not so simple that creates other factors or whatever..but I always thought a balance point (is this same as cog?) was the sweet spot.

 

I think you are highly romanticizing blades with the "half ball off groves of toe and results are not that penial and acceptable"???? Even if we didn't have the same clubs, I am not sure what acceptable is but half off the grooves on my Wilson staffs and I am pretty sure any iron not a chip or pitch is not making the green if I clubbed it correctly to begin with. I think you meant more like ball on toe end of grooves, but half a ball outside is going to send a 170 club 145 and hurts my back to think about, which is only acceptable because I accept that am the problem when that happens.

 

Yeah the black boron is done at the factory. LOL this is as per the Miura website BB section. And yeah it is SICK!!!

 

I completely understand the concept of balance point and CG vs Center of Percussion and such. I'm just saying that from a torque on the hands perspective, which in this case only the torque equation comes into play as you analyze the forces to resist impact with the ball to keep the face square, there is little of anything that has to do with the CG or CoP location. That is all I'm saying and as long as the face is held square at impact, the ball will compress against it fine and fly off the face whether contact was close to the hosel or right at the CG.

 

Now as to the physics of balance point and such as it relates to CG and CoP, LOL I understand that too. I think I went into much detail on it in this thread, so I don't debate that either. But again what I am saying is that it is also NOT up for debate that the best leverage on the ball and least torque on your hands will unequivocally come from contact as close to the hosel as possible without hitting it. And you have proven yourself, same as me, that this is a good contact spot with your BBs.

 

Now how do we merge the two physics of close to the hosel vs CG location? What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter much. Hit the blade face at the CG or close to the hosel without hitting it is fine and "sweet" for all intents and purposes.

 

And yeah by off the grooves I mean out there at the toe side where the grooves stop extending. I'm not romanticizing anything when I say I can hit the ball out there and the results aren't that penal for ME, in MY experience. Maybe 10-15 yards but I have still made my GIR with toe hits like that across ALL my blades. Again in this thread I believe I posted a 5i pic and shot I hit to "prove" it. No romance in any of this. Just a report of what I experienced.

[Nard_S]

I came to believe many years ago that sooner or later your swing will find the COG of a club . Over the past year of hoeing and trying out new acquisitions that belief was re-affirmed in very little time. It is not necessarily the sweet spot but it is the bias where your wear marks ill be.

 

.

 

I definitely 'swing to the club' ... but isn't the COG = sweetspot?

 

Not positive it is or isn't, theoretically yes, but COG is also in 3 planes and if you perimeter weight the heck out of it, COG maybe centered but moved back away from shaft axis which ups MOI and dynamic loft.

 

Easiest way to decipher effects of COG placement is to look at Driver designs. Deep face vs shallow is most obvious. Heck with the adjustable weighting available now you can get all scientific about. it.

[b.helts]

I came to believe many years ago that sooner or later your swing will find the COG of a club . Over the past year of hoeing and trying out new acquisitions that belief was re-affirmed in very little time. It is not necessarily the sweet spot but it is the bias where your wear marks ill be.

 

.

 

I definitely 'swing to the club' ... but isn't the COG = sweetspot?

 

Not positive it is or isn't, theoretically yes, but COG is also in 3 planes and if you perimeter weight the heck out of it, COG maybe centered but moved back away from shaft axis which ups MOI and dynamic loft.

 

Easiest way to decipher effects of COG placement is to look at Driver designs. Deep face vs shallow is most obvious. Heck with the adjustable weighting available now you can get all scientific about. it.

 

<shrill>

PHYSICS!!!!!!!

</shrill>

 

 

[NRJyzr]

I`ve got S200, S300 or X100. I think the 200s will go nicely. I think it`s rather funny you see TT coming out with a `new` 120 gram shaft - could it just be a rebadged - s200? i am so tempted by Modus3 120 or 105, but before I can think of that I have to do a little house cleaning. Because they are just heads, I am tempted to strip them, but the faces are really really clean. The only blemish is some rust on the back of the 4 irons which is nothing because they will def get some lead tape.

 

As for the R58. They are meaty blades and they aren`t long heel to toe. Maybe a touch more offset than I`d like... If I had to complain about anything. I could get used to them though.

 

I agree with you on the offset. The short irons have that reverse face progression thing going on, which is so unnecessary, especially with this particular set. I have gotten used to it with a lot of Japanese iron sets from that era, but the R58s would be so much better off without it.

As for shafts, well you have plenty of available options. Isn't the S200 127g? Not much different from the X100.

 

Recently I have been tempted by the Modus 120 X flex. Higher launch than DGX100 from what I have read, but should be just as stable. The 130X is another one I want to look at. Supposed to land well.

 

If you're looking for something that would equate to DGX, you may want to consider the Modus 120 TX. Some feel the 120 is a flex softer than DG. Others say it only feels that way.

 

If you get a chance to demo, I'd recommend it. :)

[mahonie]

Did you buy them in black boron that was done from Miura? I thought it was a refinished set is why I asked...if that is from factory then it will be a nice finish. That is sick though if factory!!!! Black finishes non factory suck, or better yet, I suck at luck with them.

 

Clubs have a balance point, and as I understand it, that is the sweet spot. There is a pin sized sweet spot that will create the least amount of vibration if nailed there. I don't think this is really up for debate, I am not sure if I misunderstood what you said about it though or if there is more science that is not so simple that creates other factors or whatever..but I always thought a balance point (is this same as cog?) was the sweet spot.

 

I think you are highly romanticizing blades with the "half ball off groves of toe and results are not that penial and acceptable"???? Even if we didn't have the same clubs, I am not sure what acceptable is but half off the grooves on my Wilson staffs and I am pretty sure any iron not a chip or pitch is not making the green if I clubbed it correctly to begin with. I think you meant more like ball on toe end of grooves, but half a ball outside is going to send a 170 club 145 and hurts my back to think about, which is only acceptable because I accept that am the problem when that happens.

 

Yeah the black boron is done at the factory. LOL this is as per the Miura website BB section. And yeah it is SICK!!!

 

I completely understand the concept of balance point and CG vs Center of Percussion and such. I'm just saying that from a torque on the hands perspective, which in this case only the torque equation comes into play as you analyze the forces to resist impact with the ball to keep the face square, there is little of anything that has to do with the CG or CoP location. That is all I'm saying and as long as the face is held square at impact, the ball will compress against it fine and fly off the face whether contact was close to the hosel or right at the CG.

 

Now as to the physics of balance point and such as it relates to CG and CoP, LOL I understand that too. I think I went into much detail on it in this thread, so I don't debate that either. But again what I am saying is that it is also NOT up for debate that the best leverage on the ball and least torque on your hands will unequivocally come from contact as close to the hosel as possible without hitting it. And you have proven yourself, same as me, that this is a good contact spot with your BBs.

 

Now how do we merge the two physics of close to the hosel vs CG location? What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter much. Hit the blade face at the CG or close to the hosel without hitting it is fine and "sweet" for all intents and purposes.

 

And yeah by off the grooves I mean out there at the toe side where the grooves stop extending. I'm not romanticizing anything when I say I can hit the ball out there and the results aren't that penal for ME, in MY experience. Maybe 10-15 yards but I have still made my GIR with toe hits like that across ALL my blades. Again in this thread I believe I posted a 5i pic and shot I hit to "prove" it. No romance in any of this. Just a report of what I experienced.

 

I can attest to hitting on the edge of the grooves and slightly beyond and still hitting the green. 137 yards uphill par 3, 8-iron finished 3-4 yards shy of being pin high - 15 feet to the right of the pin...no cigar though - two putts for par.

[DeNinny]

Did you buy them in black boron that was done from Miura? I thought it was a refinished set is why I asked...if that is from factory then it will be a nice finish. That is sick though if factory!!!! Black finishes non factory suck, or better yet, I suck at luck with them.

 

Clubs have a balance point, and as I understand it, that is the sweet spot. There is a pin sized sweet spot that will create the least amount of vibration if nailed there. I don't think this is really up for debate, I am not sure if I misunderstood what you said about it though or if there is more science that is not so simple that creates other factors or whatever..but I always thought a balance point (is this same as cog?) was the sweet spot.

 

I think you are highly romanticizing blades with the "half ball off groves of toe and results are not that penial and acceptable"???? Even if we didn't have the same clubs, I am not sure what acceptable is but half off the grooves on my Wilson staffs and I am pretty sure any iron not a chip or pitch is not making the green if I clubbed it correctly to begin with. I think you meant more like ball on toe end of grooves, but half a ball outside is going to send a 170 club 145 and hurts my back to think about, which is only acceptable because I accept that am the problem when that happens.

 

Yeah the black boron is done at the factory. LOL this is as per the Miura website BB section. And yeah it is SICK!!!

 

I completely understand the concept of balance point and CG vs Center of Percussion and such. I'm just saying that from a torque on the hands perspective, which in this case only the torque equation comes into play as you analyze the forces to resist impact with the ball to keep the face square, there is little of anything that has to do with the CG or CoP location. That is all I'm saying and as long as the face is held square at impact, the ball will compress against it fine and fly off the face whether contact was close to the hosel or right at the CG.

 

Now as to the physics of balance point and such as it relates to CG and CoP, LOL I understand that too. I think I went into much detail on it in this thread, so I don't debate that either. But again what I am saying is that it is also NOT up for debate that the best leverage on the ball and least torque on your hands will unequivocally come from contact as close to the hosel as possible without hitting it. And you have proven yourself, same as me, that this is a good contact spot with your BBs.

 

Now how do we merge the two physics of close to the hosel vs CG location? What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter much. Hit the blade face at the CG or close to the hosel without hitting it is fine and "sweet" for all intents and purposes.

 

And yeah by off the grooves I mean out there at the toe side where the grooves stop extending. I'm not romanticizing anything when I say I can hit the ball out there and the results aren't that penal for ME, in MY experience. Maybe 10-15 yards but I have still made my GIR with toe hits like that across ALL my blades. Again in this thread I believe I posted a 5i pic and shot I hit to "prove" it. No romance in any of this. Just a report of what I experienced.

 

I can attest to hitting on the edge of the grooves and slightly beyond and still hitting the green. 137 yards uphill par 3, 8-iron finished 3-4 yards shy of being pin high - 15 feet to the right of the pin...no cigar though - two putts for par.

 

And for sure it doesn't FEEL good because of BOTH the higher torque on your hands AND hitting it outside of the "sweetspot". This is still aligned with the concept of balance point and sweet FEELING shots. But the bigger point is is that your hands ability to keep the clubhead square both at and during impact supports that you can hit along a good supporting structure in conjunction with holding the hands square and the result isn't that penal.

 

There are more physics at stake than the CG location and the momentum of the clubhead at impact. In order to change how the ball spins and launches, by the laws of physics, you MUST physically change how the clubface literally contacts or "touches" the ball. This is FUNDAMENTAL to the physics of impact and ball flight. And sorry, but CG isn't the only variable in the equations.

[kaaayelll]

BM, my understanding is that Black Boron is an actual plating. Black oxide, as I believe you know, is a raw-metal coating. It wears easily, but it's beauty is its ability to be refreshed.

[wmblake2000]

 

Not positive it is or isn't, theoretically yes, but COG is also in 3 planes and if you perimeter weight the heck out of it, COG maybe centered but moved back away from shaft axis which ups MOI and dynamic loft.

 

Easiest way to decipher effects of COG placement is to look at Driver designs. Deep face vs shallow is most obvious. Heck with the adjustable weighting available now you can get all scientific about. it.

 

Hmm. I get the 3 d part for drivers, but the rest is 'next level' grasp for me...

 

But... it did make me think - more free association than logic. Here's where DeNinney and I might converge a little. As I think about this next set of irons and ask myself what is it exactly I am looking for (and it might just be baby blades because I have to see what all the fuss is about!) I am thinking the core criteria is how good and how frequent the best shots are. Up the %, performance and enjoyment of the good swing. This is not helped by perimeter weighting and maybe hurt. There might be a price on mishits, but my swing is pretty tight so this cost is minimal. (There's probably a psychological algebra for this tradeoff!)

 

So, if this is the criteria (and it is) then what's the process for identifying this? I have been fit enough that I know it's not reliable as it reflects a different criteria and starts with assumptions by the fitter that take a lot of time to disarm. Meshing the best impact point on the head with my swing and the shaft.... that's still a crap shoot.

[Nard_S]

Not positive it is or isn't, theoretically yes, but COG is also in 3 planes and if you perimeter weight the heck out of it, COG maybe centered but moved back away from shaft axis which ups MOI and dynamic loft.

 

Easiest way to decipher effects of COG placement is to look at Driver designs. Deep face vs shallow is most obvious. Heck with the adjustable weighting available now you can get all scientific about. it.

 

Hmm. I get the 3 d part for drivers, but the rest is 'next level' grasp for me...

 

But... it did make me think - more free association than logic. Here's where DeNinney and I might converge a little. As I think about this next set of irons and ask myself what is it exactly I am looking for (and it might just be baby blades because I have to see what all the fuss is about!) I am thinking the core criteria is how good and how frequent the best shots are. Up the %, performance and enjoyment of the good swing. This is not helped by perimeter weighting and maybe hurt. There might be a price on mishits, but my swing is pretty tight so this cost is minimal. (There's probably a psychological algebra for this tradeoff!)

 

So, if this is the criteria (and it is) then what's the process for identifying this? I have been fit enough that I know it's not reliable as it reflects a different criteria and starts with assumptions by the fitter that take a lot of time to disarm. Meshing the best impact point on the head with my swing and the shaft.... that's still a crap shoot.

 

To answer you, I do not know but what I do know is I rotate 7 sets of blades of differing designs, take at least 3 of them to every range outing and average 350 balls a week. My come away is a clubs with a CG closer to axial point (i.e. the shaft) are the most nuanced and easiest to draw, hook, fade and slice. The ones that are most GI like (TM RAC MB for instance) flies the highest and straightest and are the least maneuverable but most forgiving. Same shafts, same lofts, same SW withstanding. COG is key characteristic that decides nature of club. Swing a TM SLDR,, swing a Ping G series, the difference really is about where the designers put the CG on those Drivers. It's up to you what fits your game.

[wmblake2000]

 

To answer you, I do not know but what I do know is I rotate 7 sets of blades of differing designs, take at least 3 of them to every range outing and average 350 balls a week. My come away is a clubs with a CG closer to axial point (i.e. the shaft) are the most nuanced and easiest to draw, hook, fade and slice. The ones that are most GI like (TM RAC MB for instance) flies the highest and straightest and are the least maneuverable but most forgiving. Same shafts, same lofts, same SW withstanding. COG is key characteristic that decides nature of club. Swing a TM SLDR,, swing a Ping G series, the difference really is about where the designers put the CG on those Drivers. It's up to you what fits your game.

 

Great stuff...Thx. I have been moving in this direction - 5 sets of irons was my target (which I thought was extreme but you're at 7 sets of blades.Hats off!)

 

Hmmm. The implications are... add 2 sets. BB and maybe Vega (Kyoei). Good god do NOT tell my wife. She'd have me committed for sure.

[DeNinny]

...

 

But... it did make me think - more free association than logic. Here's where DeNinney and I might converge a little. As I think about this next set of irons and ask myself what is it exactly I am looking for (and it might just be baby blades because I have to see what all the fuss is about!) I am thinking the core criteria is how good and how frequent the best shots are. Up the %, performance and enjoyment of the good swing. This is not helped by perimeter weighting and maybe hurt. There might be a price on mishits, but my swing is pretty tight so this cost is minimal. (There's probably a psychological algebra for this tradeoff!)

 

So, if this is the criteria (and it is) then what's the process for identifying this? I have been fit enough that I know it's not reliable as it reflects a different criteria and starts with assumptions by the fitter that take a lot of time to disarm. Meshing the best impact point on the head with my swing and the shaft.... that's still a crap shoot.

 

CG location matters more in driver simply because the head is so large that it literally CAN be moved a significant amount AND because the driver connection to the shaft is WEAKER than with an iron.

 

So sorry, it is not that significant in a blade design. If anyone claims it is significant, then so are ALL of the theories, including the ball control and clean ball contact superiority of blades.

 

Anyway, to your point, the baby blade, by design, WILL be "forgiving" on miss hits AT LEAST as good as any other iron that you compare it against. Also it will be awesome on your good strikes too. The only issue that may come into play with them is any psychological issue that you may have with them outside of the science. Ball striking prowess has nothing to do with this.

 

If you can, try to get a demo BB shafted any way you like and just go hit it in comparison to anything you own or other irons you are trying. Don't believe my anecdotal experience, believe your own.

[wmblake2000]

DeNinny, with this next set, forgiveness is wholly irrelevant. I have 4 sets that are all forgiving designs. Now I want pure blade benefits for my best swings.

[kaaayelll]

BB and Vega (or other Kyoei)...an awfully nice pairing.

[DeNinny]

DeNinny, with this next set, forgiveness is wholly irrelevant. I have 4 sets that are all forgiving designs. Now I want pure blade benefits for my best swings.

 

Totally understood. Consider the BB "forgiveness" a benefit on top of traditional blade benefits. I'm just saying that you can't go wrong with the BBs for exactly what you are looking for (and then some).

 

And LOL I just want to read your reaction if you ever get a chance to hit one. Especially if you have your current clubs to directly compare at the time. I know what happened to me, and my prediction is that it will happen to you and that you will "see what all the fuss is about" first hand and in just a few pure strikes. I'm excited FOR you!

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I`ve got S200, S300 or X100. I think the 200s will go nicely. I think it`s rather funny you see TT coming out with a `new` 120 gram shaft - could it just be a rebadged - s200? i am so tempted by Modus3 120 or 105, but before I can think of that I have to do a little house cleaning. Because they are just heads, I am tempted to strip them, but the faces are really really clean. The only blemish is some rust on the back of the 4 irons which is nothing because they will def get some lead tape.

 

As for the R58. They are meaty blades and they aren`t long heel to toe. Maybe a touch more offset than I`d like... If I had to complain about anything. I could get used to them though.

 

I agree with you on the offset. The short irons have that reverse face progression thing going on, which is so unnecessary, especially with this particular set. I have gotten used to it with a lot of Japanese iron sets from that era, but the R58s would be so much better off without it.

As for shafts, well you have plenty of available options. Isn't the S200 127g? Not much different from the X100.

 

Recently I have been tempted by the Modus 120 X flex. Higher launch than DGX100 from what I have read, but should be just as stable. The 130X is another one I want to look at. Supposed to land well.

 

If you're looking for something that would equate to DGX, you may want to consider the Modus 120 TX. Some feel the 120 is a flex softer than DG. Others say it only feels that way.

 

If you get a chance to demo, I'd recommend it. :)

 

Funny you mention that....there's a "new" old set (unused) of MOZ irons at the local second hand shop shafted with Modus 120TX. As they're unused, no one's allowed to hit them, but they've been in my sights for a while. Are you saying I'm going to have to buy them?

[bervin]

I forget who here said that you find the COG with your irons when I talked about toe missing on the staffs which I rarely do in general, but in general is Blades and my small blades. Seeing deninny's inside marks made me think of that. Mine look similar, but with more hosel wear....

 

What is the black boron finish and where did you have them done? How is it different from black ox?

 

Biggie I have challenged the notion before and I still say with a blade that CG location is secondary and that you can simply hit a blade anywhere along the muscle and it will be OK (...big caveat here ->) provided that you can hold the face square at impact. And it is simply easier on the hands per the torque equation (T = force x distance) to hit the ball as close to the hosel as possible without hitting it. Regardless of CG location, the physics and math behind it supports all this. So yeah I'm not surprised at your findings with your BBs being worn at the hosel and yeah my (preliminary) wear marks indicate this too.

 

Also I will say again that I have hit my BBs out at the toe with half the ball off the grooves and the results aren't that penal. It feels like a toe hit for sure but result is acceptable.

 

So with a blade in particular I'm not so sure that CG location defines the sweetspot. Not saying it isn't important in a head design at all and that it doesn't play a role at all, but I am saying that a good strike along the blade muscle doesn't need to be defined by its CG location alone.

 

I know others may be up in arms about me posting this, but I challenge anyone to provide the theoretical refutation about how it is NOT theoretically sound to just hit the ball as close to the hosel on the face without actually hitting it. CG location does NOT come into the math equations behind any of this so therefore it is not a primary variable. (And yes I understand the concept of center of percussion vs center of gravity.)

 

Biggie you can get the black boron finish ordered as such new from Miura direct. I don't think they do it retroactively. I'm not sure if the process is 100% the same as black oxide, but I'm guessing it is similar but there is boron added to the process because it helps make the oxide layer last longer somehow.

 

My 62s are worn (major browning) from the center with a slight run towards the hosel. Most really good players I know have similar wear patterns. Some will say that our clubs need to be better fitted. I disagree. I've always believed there must be something to this...

[Christen_The_Sloop]

If I could pick a new name I might go with (Major Browning)... sheeit.

 

Here`s a couple of the short irons, of the Advisors. Minimal off-set for a classic Japanese blade.

 

And the R58 isn`t too shabby either.

[bervin]

If I could pick a new name I might go with (Major Browning)... sheeit.

 

Here`s a couple of the short irons, of the Advisors. Minimal off-set for a classic Japanese blade.

 

And the R58 isn`t too shabby either.

 

Those 58s look great!

[DeNinny]

I can feel the love...Had to change scrubs three times...ebony and ivory!!!!

 

My BB piano:

 

 

 

[dog flog]

I eluded to it earlier but I really don't see much need carrying less than a 5 iron for a lot of people and it has nothing to do with blades or cbs.

 

Dude, I carry a 4i to just punch out of tree's or if I need to flight low under obstacles.

 

My name is Nathan, and I can't use a 4i. There. I said it. Off the tee, no problem. Off anything less than a perfect lie, it's a dumpster fire for me. Completely all 100% mental. I'm a "lesser than". Or what I like to call myself "a parking lot poser" with my golf bag :D.

 

My 4 iron sees more punch outs than looks, hence my feelings. If your 4 iron is a dumpster fire, Mine is a BBQ on fire, a little more manageable but if I am grabbing it, I am looking at like a 10-15% chance of a gir, again, hence my feelings.

On occasion, my shaft lean gets so out of control, I could knock it under pine trees with anything less than a wedge. A uselful skill if I played full rounds in the local winter dome, I spose.

[Kingcat990]

Deninny and his cat. If I didn't know you, I'd say you were a villain. Dr. Evil

[dog flog]

I'd do well playing in subway tunnels with Lee Trevino is all I'm saying.

[dog flog]

Deninny and his cat. If I didn't know you, I'd say you were a villain. Dr. Evil

He might be a variation on a previously existing super-villain. Dr. No Cavity.

[dog flog]

Wesley Snipes took blade. Baby blade is available and it's up to Bladehunter and Deninny to suss out the details of copyright. That's my take. If you don't like it, get your own show. That's an Emeril joke, btw.

[DeNinny]

I forget who here said that you find the COG with your irons when I talked about toe missing on the staffs which I rarely do in general, but in general is Blades and my small blades. Seeing deninny's inside marks made me think of that. Mine look similar, but with more hosel wear....

 

What is the black boron finish and where did you have them done? How is it different from black ox?

 

Biggie I have challenged the notion before and I still say with a blade that CG location is secondary and that you can simply hit a blade anywhere along the muscle and it will be OK (...big caveat here ->) provided that you can hold the face square at impact. And it is simply easier on the hands per the torque equation (T = force x distance) to hit the ball as close to the hosel as possible without hitting it. Regardless of CG location, the physics and math behind it supports all this. So yeah I'm not surprised at your findings with your BBs being worn at the hosel and yeah my (preliminary) wear marks indicate this too.

 

Also I will say again that I have hit my BBs out at the toe with half the ball off the grooves and the results aren't that penal. It feels like a toe hit for sure but result is acceptable.

 

So with a blade in particular I'm not so sure that CG location defines the sweetspot. Not saying it isn't important in a head design at all and that it doesn't play a role at all, but I am saying that a good strike along the blade muscle doesn't need to be defined by its CG location alone.

 

I know others may be up in arms about me posting this, but I challenge anyone to provide the theoretical refutation about how it is NOT theoretically sound to just hit the ball as close to the hosel on the face without actually hitting it. CG location does NOT come into the math equations behind any of this so therefore it is not a primary variable. (And yes I understand the concept of center of percussion vs center of gravity.)

 

Biggie you can get the black boron finish ordered as such new from Miura direct. I don't think they do it retroactively. I'm not sure if the process is 100% the same as black oxide, but I'm guessing it is similar but there is boron added to the process because it helps make the oxide layer last longer somehow.

 

My 62s are worn (major browning) from the center with a slight run towards the hosel. Most really good players I know have similar wear patterns. Some will say that our clubs need to be better fitted. I disagree. I've always believed there must be something to this...

 

...and that something is pure unbiased physics. At its core, impact is a torque physics problem. The golfer is powering the shot by rotating the clubhead at the end of a shaft with tremendous centrifugal force at the moment of impact. As soon as impact starts, the ball itself puts a force on the face of the club as it is accelerated from a still position. As this force pushes on the face, you then have to evaluate what is there to resist that force. And what is there to resist it is the shaft that is held by the hands. The hands at the grip are the base of support that prevent the clubface from twisting open by the force from the ball. And since this force is offset to the side of the shaft, by the laws of physics, it will put a torque on the shaft based on the formula for torque, T = force x distance the force was applied from the fulcrum of rotation. Since the force is the same, the only way the torque gets bigger is by increasing that distance. So, based on this alone, the least amount of torque on the hands is when impact is as close to the hosel as possible but still on the flat clubface.

 

So yes absolutely the laws of physics support that a good face wear pattern for a blade is at the CG and anywhere from there to the hosel. In this zone of contact, there will be minimal torque on the hands and so they will have an easier time staying square during impact. Ultimately because of this there will be minimal side spin on the ball and minimal loss of energy transfer from clubhead to ball. For every bit of force that the hands need to keep the face square, there will be every bit of loss of energy transfer from clubface to ball.

 

LOL this is the pure unbiased physics. And note that CG does not come into play in any of this. I'm NOT saying it doesn't have any affect either, but the more important driver, especially in the physics of a blade design, is the torque put on the clubface from impact.

 

Think of a diving board analogy. The base of the diving board is like the hosel connection to the head and thus the blade muscle. The farther from the base the diver jumps, the more the board bends and it bends the most when the diver jumps at the very end, the farthest point from the base. This same thing is happening at impact on a blade's face. Closer to the hosel without hitting it will be a more solid and supported surface for impact with the ball. And simply the farther away from the hosel the more the hands will need to work to keep the face square or else the face will twist open just like the diving board bends more and more.

[DeNinny]

Deninny and his cat. If I didn't know you, I'd say you were a villain. Dr. Evil

 

LOL FWIW his name is Diablo.

[dog flog]

I am absolutely willing to acknowledge that good contact is better with the bladiest of blades. The other side of the coin is what is easiest with minimal play and practice? That, to me is the crux at this point in my yet to fully blossom career as a dog flog.