How do you Count Penalty Strokes for New Players?

[GameDayDog]

I have a buddy that's new at golf.

Today, the course had a hole with a forced carry.

 

Neither of our tee shots made it across.

Annoyed I hit a bad shot, I teed another one up and hit it across.

 

To save golf balls and to keep from slowing the game down, he chose to

hit his next shot from my position. (I'm cool with this)

 

So, I hit (1) in the water, dropped (2), hit (3) across, hit (4) on the green, 2 putt - (5 & 6) ...

 

He hit (1) in the water, dropped (2) where my ball was, hit (3) on the green, 3 putt - (4, 5 & 6) ...

 

I need to give him a double penalty or include an imaginary stroke in his score, right?

 

Should I let it go for now or be strict?

 

How'd you handle scoring when introducing a new player to the game?

[Krt22]

He is only cheating himself thinking he made a 6. If anything he should have taken a drop from where the ball crossed the hazard (or the designated drop zone), so yeah I think you can count that as an extra stroke

Otherwise why even keep score...

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='Krt22' timestamp='1420851106' post='10718855']

Otherwise why even keep score...
[/quote]

This would be my recommendation as well.

But if you want to go by the Rules (and wish to share this with your friend afterwards) I'm afraid your friend made a serious breach and should have corrected his error before leaving the putting green. As he did not he did not hole out and in a competition would have been disqualified. Furthermore he earned 1 PS for sinking his ball in the WH and 2 more for playing from a wrong place.

[Sean2]

For BRAND NEW players I would suggest one of two things: 1) don't keep score, or 2) create a personal score card for him. For example, on a par 72, par could be 108 for him, so we won't get frustrated by getting a double, triples, etc., on every hole, i.e., 108 would be even par for him, or whatever designation you chose to use. As he gets better his personal par would be 90, etc.

[Hawkeye77]

Little kids learning the game in clinics or with their parents all across the country count penalty strokes according to the rules, and enjoy learning the game that way.

Why the dilemma or reluctance for big kids?

I'll never get that. It's a stroke, or two, or four. Big deal.

[GameDayDog]

I can tell he's improving, he's not losing a dozen golf balls per round anymore.

For a while, we didn't keep score at all, I just wanted him to focus on making good swings & getting on the greens with his short irons and wedges...

Unfortunately, his 110+ scores might be closer to 120 ...

It's been about 18 months and he's on his third set of clubs.

I didn't realize it until today.. .When he said "6", I kept thinking, "We counted something wrong."

I'll explain to him - the "Imaginary Stroke" penalty shot - he's not going to be playing competitive golf anytime soon, so no worries about that.

[Krt22]

How hard would it have been to drop one in front of the water and lay up to the green and keep it semi-legit?

[Cancun]

The word “penalty” is unattractive. Nobody wants to receive penalties, so tell him that by sending the ball to the water he earned [b][u]1 extra point [/u][/b]

No, seriously: For brand new players, I don’t even think of keeping a score or playing strictly by the Rules.

As they learn how to hit the ball, they also pick up some general Rules information along the way. When they start talking about their score it’s time to have a little Rules conversation, in the most positive spirit.

It’s like learning how to ride a bicycle… most people need the little training wheels at the beginning… and maybe you’re not really riding a bicycle until you remove them, but you already know what riding is about. Not playing by the Rules at the beginning somehow is like those training wheels… you may not be exactly playing golf, but you know pretty well what golf is all about and you’ve built a solid base… you can hit the ball, to begin with!

For those who may be sensitive to the subject: I’m not implying that not playing 100% by the Rules is not golf and you should stay off the course. It’s just an example… please, please

Have a good day!

[dplasters]

i find it mildly humorous that on a forum where half the threads complain about pace of play the OP posts a story about a new player being respectful of the pace and the advice is mostly make him play by the rules and take an unknown amount of extra time.

forced carries like this can be complete mind f***s for new players. Ask him what he thinks would be fair. So he drops by you. On average it would take him what? 1.5 strokes to get to where you are lying? 2 strokes? 3? so add those as penalty strokes. Keep him playing and having fun. Keep the course moving. I'd say to never let the penalty drop to below 1.5 or 2. If he thinks he can match your shot that frequently he has to prove his improvement. There is still a challenge, he still gets to write a number down, the course keeps moving, the sun keeps rising and he has a goal to improve on.

I'd encourage him to track these faux penalties. He can then have a goal of getting to no faux penalties first, then limit true penalties, hit more fairways or greens, etc. He has a path to improvement and a way to track it.

[tdk8180]

I have a buddy that I give mulligans to, and then at the end of the round I give him his real score. The spreads were about 8-9 strokes. Now they are about 1-2. It made him value his real score, despite it being bad.

There are 4 scores in golf, the one you should've shot, the one you would've shot, the one you could've shot and the one you shot. The last one counts.

[Newby]

[quote name='GameDayDog' timestamp='1420850672' post='10718815']
I have a buddy that's new at golf.
Today, the course had a hole with a forced carry.

Neither of our tee shots made it across.
Annoyed I hit a bad shot, I teed another one up and hit it across.

To save golf balls and to keep from slowing the game down, he chose to
hit his next shot from my position. (I'm cool with this)

So, I hit (1) in the water, dropped (2), hit (3) across, hit (4) on the green, 2 putt - (5 & 6) ...

He hit (1) in the water, dropped (2) where my ball was, hit (3) on the green, 3 putt - (4, 5 & 6) ...

I need to give him a double penalty or include an imaginary stroke in his score, right?

Should I let it go for now or be strict?

How'd you handle scoring when introducing a new player to the game?
[/quote]
Always make learning players aware of their penalties. By all means separate them out when discussing the final score.
But if they are not made aware of breaches and their significance, they will have difficulty later in convincing themselves of their real significance. They will simply resent penalties rather than avoid them.

Learn and practice strokes and shot skills off the course. Learn course and game (ie risk & reward, rules and etiquette) management on the course.

[GameDayDog]

I'm a bad influence... in the beginning, if we were paired with others, I'd treat it like a 2 man scramble whenever he had troubles.
If my ball was in the fairway and his ball was OB or nowhere to be found, then I'd let him drop from the spot of my next shot.
Count the drop and then keep playing...

I may have created a monster.. but I'll teach him right from wrong. (** - to the best of my abilities)

Like I said - it wasn't until today when he said we both had "6" that I realized something wasn't adding up. That something was his penalty shots.

[DaveLeeNC]

IMHO, a reasonable approach is to build around the USGA handicap system (assuming a US player). This will give the golfer a "legal" way to pick up (ESC and/or 'most likely score', Section 4 of the USGA Manual) when things go horribly wrong, you don't want to empty your bag into the lake, etc. And it is how many US golfers play, anyway.

In my case when someone asks me what I shot and, assuming it was a bad day, I would probably say something like "I don't know what my golf score was, but I posted a score of ___".

dave

[tdk8180]

[quote name='GameDayDog' timestamp='1420882924' post='10720675']
I'm a bad influence... in the beginning, if we were paired with others, I'd treat it like a 2 man scramble whenever he had troubles.
If my ball was in the fairway and his ball was OB or nowhere to be found, then I'd let him drop from the spot of my next shot.
Count the drop and then keep playing...

I may have created a monster.. but I'll teach him right from wrong. (** - to the best of my abilities)

Like I said - it wasn't until today when he said we both had "6" that I realized something wasn't adding up. That something was his penalty shots.
[/quote]

The funniest thing (preface with this...I have the patience to play a 3 hour 9 holes, it happens in tournaments so its like prep work for me) is that my friend is always shocked when we get done with 9 holes and he's like, "We've been out here 3 hours???" Yes...that's what happens when we play the ball down and count all of the shots.

[jmkenn0]

The ESC is a good idea, but it really depends on what you're doing. If you're introducing him to the game, explain what should have occurred based on the rules, but given its a difficult shot, he can just drop by you.

I have a friend who's notorious for his own creative score keeping. I enjoy playing with him, but unless we are playing for money, I let him keep whatever score he wants - if he wants to say he won, so be it.

Also, maybe find an easier course for your friends?

[Wriggles]

A good idea is to play points quota. Pick up after bogey. Keeps the game going and less frustration all around.

Reminds me of an old Archie comic from back in the 1950's. Archie and his pals were playing miniature golf. Jughead played so badly the round took hours into late night. At the eighteenth, Jughead wins a free game, to everyones' dismay.

[Bonneville85308]

Unless you are playing in some kind of match or tournament with him, I don't see why it even matters. He should be focusing on making solid contact with the ball, learning course management, and how to keep pace. He should begin to understand which circumstances may involve penalties, but not get hung up on the details quite yet. When my ex-girlfriend took up the game, I had her tee it up at the 150 yard marker on every hole and didn't keep any kind of score for the first 15 rounds or so. I think if I were a rules stickler from the start, she would have lost focus pretty quick.

[DavePelz4]

What tees were you playing from? Was the forced carry too long or because he's new was he having a challenge getting the ball in the air?

[Hot Rod 71]

I encourage new(er) players to just go out and hit the ball and have fun. Score is just one more element to add to an already difficult game and really isn't important for beginners.

If you keep a handicap or care about score, then that's fine. But if a new player wants to drop where you are, and that makes it easier and more fun for him, then I say fine.

The goal is to get new players to come back to the course and play. If they are taught from the start that golf is only about a score then they may likely become frustrated and not return. As a friend, I would be more concerned with teaching him the rules and etiquette that will make the game enjoyable for all.

[GameDayDog]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1420987927' post='10726467']
What tees were you playing from? Was the forced carry too long or because he's new was he having a challenge getting the ball in the air?
[/quote]

With him, I tee it forward. We played from the whites that day. The carry was probably 200. I used a 5w, but that's at the tip of his driver range (total distance). The wind was strong and in our faces. I clubbed up to driver because shots were dying in the wind. He would've never gotten across.

[GameDayDog]

[quote name='cherokee8215' timestamp='1420987630' post='10726453']When my ex-girlfriend took up the game, I had her tee it up at the 150 yard marker on every hole and didn't keep any kind of score for the first 15 rounds or so.
[/quote]

This is how I got him started.. but you know.. he's got cell phone apps and wants to enter our scores, etc... He's at that stage where almost all his clubs go the same distance.

[taporsnap17]

I don't know if it's a good idea, but this is what I've been doing with a friend of mine and both of us are fairly new.

While we keep count of strokes, we've always ephasised matchplay more than strokeplay. Basically, it means if you have a blowup hole, it's just 1 on the board as opposed to a half decent round being blown to bits.

Found that in a "competitive" sense between friends, it keeps the game closer and everyone happier thus more likely to keep grinding and playing golf as we don't tend to get blowouts

[RickK]

I have played a fair amount of golf over the years with newcomers to golf. In the case of a forced carry and at their stage of the game, they might be there all day...I tell them what the real rules are and then tell them..."you are just learning the game. Let's not lose a bunch of balls...go to the other side, drop and play on...having fun". If they want to keep some kind of score, add a couple of strokes and move on. If they are setting a handicap, there is a limit to the number of strokes they can take anyway for handicapping purposes (ESC).
I play in a tournament league and the only people we discourage from coming out and playing golf with us are beginners. You are expected to play by the rules. We had to add a clause in our rules regarding membership eligibility. "You must be able to complete every hole on the golf course by the Rules of Golf".
That said, I do encourage people to go out and practice and learn how to play well enough that they can play every hole by the rules.

[Bingo1976]

Agree with everyone saying to drop over the hazard and tell him what should happen if you were playing to the full rules. Or find a course without a 200 yard forced carry - that's not a course your friend should be playing IMHO. Or get him to play that one hole off the reds/seniors.

[teejaywhy]

I'm in full agreement that a beginner should not be compelled to play and count every shot, tee to hole. Pick up, move along, drop a ball nearer to the green, chip & putt, repeat.

But the question in this case, what score to record? Not necessary to record a score. A score has no meaning at this point.

[Forged4ever]

First GD, Happy New Year!

I hope that You and Yours had a Holiday Season

Regarding your Friend, I would agree with Sean regarding keeping score, depending on how new to the game he is.

HOWEVER, if you/he choose to keep score, Mr B and others who said to follow the book, apply the penalty strokes(or whatever he chooses to call them) appropriately, along with where the ensuing shot should be played from are the only way to go.

This is just my thought though if one starts out not following the rules to the letter, in every fashion, it just becomes easier not to do so in the future and to dismiss or rationalize away a stroke, a shot, etc.

Now I understand that people play this game for a lot of reasons, and if your Friend is playing for the camaraderie and/or s**** & giggles, then who cares, hell, it's probably easier on everyone that he just keeps moving forward, lol. Even if he chooses not to keep score, he should be made aware what the correct way to play the game is, following such a shot/situation as you describe. Then it's on him how he wants to proceed.

However, if he is serious about the game, and wants to improve and hopefully develop a handicap, then that starts from day one.

Again, I realize that there are a lot of ways to learn and play this game, however this is how I was taught, and I took it as a challenge to improve, excel and play the game while following the both the spirit and letter of the rules.

If one wants to play a game/sport where it's only a penalty If you get caught, football is the sport, lol, trust me, I know.

Have a great '15 Bro

All the Best,
Richard

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='dplasters' timestamp='1420858065' post='10719495']
i find it mildly humorous that on a forum where half the threads complain about pace of play the OP posts a story about a new player being respectful of the pace and the advice is mostly make him play by the rules and take an unknown amount of extra time.

forced carries like this can be complete mind f***s for new players. Ask him what he thinks would be fair. So he drops by you. On average it would take him what? 1.5 strokes to get to where you are lying? 2 strokes? 3? so add those as penalty strokes. Keep him playing and having fun. Keep the course moving. I'd say to never let the penalty drop to below 1.5 or 2. If he thinks he can match your shot that frequently he has to prove his improvement. There is still a challenge, he still gets to write a number down, the course keeps moving, the sun keeps rising and he has a goal to improve on.

I'd encourage him to track these faux penalties. He can then have a goal of getting to no faux penalties first, then limit true penalties, hit more fairways or greens, etc. He has a path to improvement and a way to track it.
[/quote]
Great post.

OP, I would say you would give him the "extra stroke", or at least make sure he's aware of it and the real procedures were he in a handicap round or tournament.

[HighSpeedScene]

Sequentially

[llewol007]

I think you are setting your self as well as anybody else who plays with your buddy to [size=4]view him as one who does not know how to score himself properly. You can let him continue since he is beginning to learn the game. Eventually and I recommend sooner than later, that you clarify if he is penalized what it is as to not surprise him later on down the road. I am pretty sure he is a big boy and can handle a few penalty stroke clarifications when you are scoring his game.[/size]

[goobers80]

[quote name='llewol007' timestamp='1421295283' post='10749309']
I think you are setting your self as well as anybody else who plays with your buddy to view him as one who does not know how to score himself properly. You can let him continue since he is beginning to learn the game. Eventually and I recommend sooner than later, that you clarify if he is penalized what it is as to not surprise him later on down the road. I am pretty sure he is a big boy and can handle a few penalty stroke clarifications when you are scoring his game.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]You can explain the rules , but let him do whatever. A beginner needs to learn stuffs , but not get beat up by rules. If a nots so good lady golfer is in deep rough or has a forced carry , i coulds go get lunch and she might still be trying to get out. After a couple whacks i suggest for her to prop it up or just play froms just over the hazard. The goal is to get her back out , not drive her away. You can learn rules to use in the future if you so choose.[/color]

[color=#800080]I think the golf channel suggested following seven simple rules to help new golfers enjoy golf with a lighter structure. There are too many pointless rules ands especially for the casual golfer.[/color]