Majors won with Drivers designed by Toney Penna

[xgolfx]

I believe thatToney Penna designed more drivers which were used to win majors than anyone else

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[Kathy Marie]

Charley, I'm SURE you're right!!

But with so many of the clubs on Tour being stamped with the "required logo" whilst actually being something else, how will ever we know??

[xgolfx]

[quote name='Kathy Marie' timestamp='1422458228' post='10834335']
Charley, I'm SURE you're right!!

But with so many of the clubs on Tour being stamped with the "required logo" whilst actually being something else, how will ever we know??
[/quote]

The list would include Jack, Hogan, Nelson, Demaret, Snead(hated Wilson drivers), Seve, Olazabal, Crenshaw, Norman, Lanny, Watson, Woosie, Pate, Johnny Miller, Trevino, Weiskopf, Floyd, Faldo, . If I thought about it Icould find a few more. By the way, we could include a few women and us ams.

CHARLEY PENNA

[birly-shirly]

Not about Seve's driver but a nice reference to his TP 3 wood. When I think of clubs that became iconic in a single shot, I think of Hogan's 1 iron, Sarazen's 4 wood and Watson's SW. I also think this belongs in that group. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1bhaazbSeI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1bhaazbSeI[/url]

[freddiec]

David Graham played a 693 during his US Open win , its now in the Australia Hall of Fame, he told me so himself. Did Freddie Couples play a M85 during his Masters win?

[xgolfx]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1422460674' post='10834559']
David Graham played a 693 during his US Open win , its now in the Australia Hall of Fame, he told me so himself. Did Freddie Couples play a M85 during his Masters win?
[/quote]

Late additions to the list

Hal Sutton, Graham, Larry Mize, Lee, Jack Burke, Doug Ford, Craig Wood, Carner, Couples

CHARLEY PENNA

[freddiec]

Mr. Penna, I've always been curious about Mize's driver (Masters win). Do you recall the model, any details, looked to have a red/white/red insert on the 10th hole during playoff. Thanks.

[xgolfx]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1422462298' post='10834737']
Mr. Penna, I've always been curious about Mize's driver (Masters win). Do you recall the model, any details, looked to have a red/white/red insert on the 10th hole during playoff. Thanks.

It was an MT with 9 degree loft
[/quote]more additions

Armour, Claude Harmon, Lionel Hebert, rDi Vicenzo, Chick Harbert, Bob Hamilton, Worsham, Jim Turnesa, Romberg, Peter Thompson

CHARLEY PENNA

[freddiec]

Thanks Charlie. MT as in a M85 or M75? Or later model?

[xgolfx]

That is all the info I have for Mize

CHARLEY PENNA

[jonnygrouville]

Not an expert, but I'd say your hypothesis would be quite easily proved by trying to think of who would be in second place. They might work for Nike.

[xgolfx]

For less than 50 years, I have named about 40 players who used Toney Penna designed drivers to win majors. Many of those won Multiple Majors during that time. I doubt that there is any flaw in my statement

CHARLEY PENNA

[jonnygrouville]

Absolutely! Before the names started adding up, would have thought he would have been top. By the time you get through that list, it seems as if he would win by a country mile.

The point I was trying to make is that I, with my admittedly limited knowledge, would be struggling to think who would be second. In the modern era, difficult to think of anyone who would make it into double-figures. Maybe whoever designed Taylor Made's original burner? Might have racked up a few as this was used more broadly than their staff players. If one person has been behind the design for Nike's drivers for the last fifteen years they might have a few (mainly Woods, some McIlroy with the odd extra one).

I know Harry Busson worked with Wilson for a while and they might have been used for a handful, and Seve had a couple of clubs from him as well. Still only going to be a few, so not sure anyone else would get close.

[mocokid]

What about WATSON TOM, I'm sure he used a TP driver (persimmon) in the 70's !! Not a MacGregor but Toney Penna Co. model.

from USGA interview w Watson: [url="http://www.ussenioropen.com/2003/players/transcripts/6-25-watson.html"]http://www.ussenioropen.com/2003/players/transcripts/6-25-watson.html[/url]

TOM [b]WATSON[/b]: You know, I was one of the longer hitters out there for most of my career. And it was measured when they first came out with the swing analysis it was 115; that was about the maximum I could get it with the Tony [b]Penna[/b] 43-and-a-half-inch [b]driver[/b]. And I don't know what that would translate into today maybe with an inch longer and lighter [b]driver[/b].

There you go Charley, another TP player.

[xgolfx]

According to Lanny Wadkins, Watson took his back up Toney Penna Mod 1 and won 8 majors with it. Tom never paid him for it

CHARLEY PENNA

[mocokid]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1422547898' post='10841313']
According to Lanny Wadkins, Watson took his back up Toney Penna Mod 1 and won 8 majors with it. Tom never paid him for it

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

LOL, I know I've seen many pix of Watson with that distinctive TP sole plate in 70-80's. Could not find any pix currently but you can see the club on the GDig cover Oct 1982 and it's a TP.

[Forged4ever]

Yep, Sam Hated the Staff drivers and woods.

In 1984, Sam came up to Pittsburgh and it was the first time that I got to play with him. Pete(his Bro & my Teacher) had already told me the deal with Sam's woods(Which Charlie has posted about), so after the round, Pete, Sam & I walked back to Pete's car, and upon opening the trunk to put Sam's clubs in, there were three Staff drivers in the trunk.

Sam reached in, grabbed one, and handed it to me.

Well, I already had three Penna drivers, lol, however THIS was major!!!

He smiled and said, "Here, for tolerating my Brother(LMAO, it was the other way around)."

So, I was on cloud nine, and I went straight to the Pro Shop to show Gary, our Pro and a close Mentor of mine. He also knew of Sam's true drivers, and he took the club, looked it over, and said, "this may be Sam's driver, but it ain't a Penna." I didn't believe him, though I said nothing and that night I called Pete and asked him if this driver was one of Sam's Penna drivers.

"Hell no, That thing's a Staff. Sam wouldn't give you one of his Pennas. Hell, we stopped for gas down at the Plaza(about two miles from the club) and Sam gave the damn attendant one. I bet ya that third one didn't make it onto the plane."

I was cushed, lol.

I still have that driver, though it never meant much.

I wanted that damn Penna

Great thread!!

Happy New Year My Friend,
Richard

[xgolfx]

Thanks for backing me up. I get the impression that many of the posters think I' m making up a lot of my statements. Some of the supposed beauties that get compliments from their posters are real abortions. In my opinion,about 90% of the club's shown have been ruined by the refinisher. Just because they are over glossy polyurethaned and shine, they are wonderful. Face progression, crown sanding, scoring through the screws and passed the face into the neck,playability ruined by a shaft too long, just are ignored by the ignorant.

CHARLEY PENNA

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1422664585' post='10852829']
Thanks for backing me up. I get the impression that many of the posters think I' m making up a lot of my statements.

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]You're very welcome though only a fool would question you, though we do have a few of them around

Your stories and the the history of the game, Your Uncle and his company are what makes this board and specifically this section so special.

Thank You for taking the time to share them with us!!

And I couldn't agree more on some of the refinished jobs. It's a damn shame cuz I've seen some great woods that looked like an amateur redid em.

Stay well my Friend,
Richard

[birly-shirly]

Look, I know the last couple are probably what we might call "Friday Night" posts, but seriously, how about we all just calm down a tad?

Only a fool would question Charley? When I teach, I try and impress on my students that only a fool keeps his questions to himself. If there's something you don't understand, then you're going to stay stupid until you speak up and get an answer that you comprehend.

And Charley's complaining that OTHER PEOPLES CLUBS are getting compliments? Come on people! This whole thread was started as a blatant response to another thread in praise of Hogan irons. There's more than enough enthusiasm on this forum to go round. We can bear to share that, can't we?

As for pulling a figure out of the air like 90% of refinished clubs being ruined, I want to take issue with that. Apart from anything else, that's just flat out insulting to the people who have posted their own refinishing efforts.

I have close to zero skills with wood, but with the advice from the several experts on here who like to help, I refinished a nice Titleist persimmon driver. Using fine grade steel wool, I can guarantee you that the bounce, roll, loft, face alignment and progression and the top line all changed less than a gnat's baw hair. I can well do without hearing from someone on the other side of the world that I've ruined the club. I strongly suspect that the people who have posted pictures of their own work are a good deal more competent than I am.

[freddiec]

I've seen some amateur refinish jobs as well, but thats the result of people doing their best to make (Their) club better looking and to protect it from the elements during play. Beauty is in the eye and I'm sure there are enough people who would admire a club done by an amateur. I've had some of my woods restored by the best and paid good money and have been more than satisfied with the job and the MacGregors I've had done were done properly. Some refinshers are able to keep all original lines and face progression and bring out the real beauty of the club and as somebody pointed out before the club comes back better than original and I agree. A good craftsman can take a club such as an original M85 and re work certain things, such as face angle. I've seen original MacGregors with closed faces, lots of face progression, ect. They are not all "perfect" for everybody, especially if you want to play them. I agree there is nothing better than an original wood in great condition, but ones that are restored properly are works of art to be admired. Dave Wood IMO is as good as any of the original guys at Mac and when he re touches a wood, man your a lucky and happy customer. There are also people he has taught how to do the craft , thats a great gift to share.. The M85 in my avitar was all original when Dave restored. He kept close to 100 percent of all original lines, bulge , ect and it came back like a real show piece totally playable. His comment on the club was "this club sets up and head specs were exactly like Ben Crenshaws M85 which I customized for him", "I'm very surprised this club didn't find its way out on the tour, its sets up perfect, the only thing I may have done was perhaps open up the face a little on the toe side. (He did not do this). Those comments alone were worth the $ I paid for the restore. Moreover, you take guys like Norman and I'm sure others who won Majors with MacGregrors, they all had their clubs customized because the original specs were not right for them, so after the work they were "better" for them.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422700699' post='10855177']
Look, I know the last couple are probably what we might call "Friday Night" posts, but seriously, how about we all just calm down a tad?

Only a fool would question Charley? When I teach, I try and impress on my students that only a fool keeps his questions to himself. If there's something you don't understand, then you're going to stay stupid until you speak up and get an answer that you comprehend.

And Charley's complaining that OTHER PEOPLES CLUBS are getting compliments? Come on people! This whole thread was started as a blatant response to another thread in praise of Hogan irons. There's more than enough enthusiasm on this forum to go round. We can bear to share that, can't we?

As for pulling a figure out of the air like 90% of refinished clubs being ruined, I want to take issue with that. Apart from anything else, that's just flat out insulting to the people who have posted their own refinishing efforts.
[/quote]I'm sorry however I am not at all familiar with "Friday night posts," lol.

I assure you, and you can look at my previous posts however the tone, tenor and content doesn't change from Friday night to Sunday afternoon to Tuesday evening to Friday morning, lol, however meds can influence all of the previous stated factors.

Charlie's opinion is his opinion and to come into his thread and lay into him about it, especially with a patronizing tone that I wouldn't take with my students, well, you see where I'm goin with this, hopefully.

Regarding Hogan, I have absolutely no idea about any of that though I've left a few posts across the 27+ page Hogan thread in the other section. My views on The Hogan Company and clubs are crystal clear.

We'd be best served to Stay On the topics/subjects that Charlie and others brought up as that is why many come to this section and these threads because they do not have the adversarial views and tones of the other sections on the board.

Regarding "questioning" Charlie, I was in no way, shape or form saying do not question an opinion, his or any other's, because again, if you peruse a few of my previous posts, lol, well, while I can and do run with the herd, I'm not one of the sheep that accepts others' words as gospel just because they might agree with mine.

I was speaking to "questioning" his integrity and truthfulness in recounting stories of his and his Uncle's experiences.

That should be evident by his statement and my response.

It had zero to do with questioning his views or opinions.

Regarding calling him, myself or anyone to "calm down" while you explain things( ), when it was nothing more than opinions being exchanges in a discussion, well, I will tip my hat, lol, cute is cute

However to bite onto a generalized number such as Charlie's 90% is to chew on a bone that isn't worth chewing on or arguing over.

Regardless, I hope that you have a great season ahead Shirly

Fairways & Greens My Friend,
Richard

[birly-shirly]

Richard - you did me the honour of reading my post, and responding, in some detail.

When I made a crack about "Friday night" posts, I was trying to extend the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, you'll give me the benefit of the doubt that my "patronizing" post didn't introduce the language of "ignorant","abortions", "fools", "amateurs" (in the clearly disparaging sense) or "ruined" clubs to this thread.

And if you think it's unfair of me to pick on the number of 90%, well we need to agree to disagree. Someone, anyone, coming on here and stating that 90%, or to put it another way, practically ALL of the refinished clubs posted in this forum are ruined ought to be ready to argue their point. Sure we've seen the occasional club come up with the face screws sawn through, but I'd guess we've seen just as many with the minimum work done by keen amateurs to keep the clubs weathertight, and we've seen a fair few showing quite outstanding workmanship. I could not agree more with FreddieC's post above.

So, to be quite clear, I disagree with Charley's last post - taken as a whole. It seemed to me that you were endorsing his post in its entirety since you specifically agreed on the refinishes. If your intended point was solely about his integrity, then I understand and maybe even agree, although since I didn't see anyone questioning his integrity, his sincerity, or even his assertions in this thread, I maybe didn't give that possibility much attention.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422718593' post='10856141']
Richard - you did me the honour of reading my post, and responding, in some detail.

When I made a crack about "Friday night" posts, I was trying to extend the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, you'll give me the benefit of the doubt that my "patronizing" post didn't introduce the language of "ignorant","abortions", "fools", "amateurs" (in the clearly disparaging sense) or "ruined" clubs to this thread.

And if you think it's unfair of me to pick on the number of 90%, well we need to agree to disagree. Someone, anyone, coming on here and stating that 90%, or to put it another way, practically ALL of the refinished clubs posted in this forum are ruined ought to be ready to argue their point. Sure we've seen the occasional club come up with the face screws sawn through, but I'd guess we've seen just as many with the minimum work done by keen amateurs to keep the clubs weathertight, and we've seen a fair few showing quite outstanding workmanship. I could not agree more with FreddieC's post above.

So, to be quite clear, I disagree with Charley's last post - taken as a whole. It seemed to me that you were endorsing his post in its entirety since you specifically agreed on the refinishes. If your intended point was solely about his integrity, then I understand and maybe even agree, although since I didn't see anyone questioning his integrity, his sincerity, or even his assertions in this thread, I maybe didn't give that possibility much attention.
[/quote]My initial post was in response to Charlie's stating that others questioned his integrity in recounting stories from his Uncle's experiences and specifically a few he told of Sam Snead, which matched what Pete had told me. This was really cool to me because while I am younger than Charlie, the Men who were my Mentors, Teachers and Friends were Charlie's Uncle's age, and I lived to hear those stories, as I just look at them and those Men as the ones who built the foundational bedrock that is golf in this country.

Regarding the 90%, that seems high, however I don't know, though I was speaking of some of the Guys(2) who I've sent my woods to and when I got them back, I have to say that they looked like Charlie described and it was probably a case things/people getting better with age, though I thought that they looked great and as I had remembered my new Pennas back in the day.

Until an older gentleman from the Club, who knew Toney Penna and he said that this finish job would have him spinning, and he went on to show me why, as he was into refinishing himself and had spoken to Mr. Penna at length so he showed me where my finishing job was deficient, lol.

I ended up letting him redo it and I must say, it was like night and day.

Anyhoo, I do agree with the statement above regarding beauty being in the eyes of the beholder though I can also see through the eyes of the perfectionist who wants it as it originally was, because while I am not this way with woods, I am in other areas of my life.

So, I just think it's best to leave the 90% alone, because right or wrong, accurate or not, everyone feels strongly about their respective positions, so I'll respect both and move on.

That's what is so great about this section, from Kathy Marie to HogansApexBlade and Stu, these members are the Best about moving on and making room at the table for everyone, regardless of their views or opinions

Stay Well My Friend,
Richard

[jonnygrouville]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1422664585' post='10852829'] In my opinion,about 90% of the club's shown have been ruined by the refinisher. Just because they are over glossy polyurethaned and shine, they are wonderful. Face progression, crown sanding, scoring through the screws and passed the face into the neck,playability ruined by a shaft too long, just are ignored by the ignorant. CHARLEY PENNA [/quote]

Hmmm. The clubs I have been trying to restore look like they have been done by an amateur because they have been done by an amateur. I work in a bank and get a huge amount of pleasure from my restoration efforts in the odd hour here and there in the evenings, something that is more akin to therapy than a hobby.

Am I ruining anything good? I rarely pay more than a tenner for a club that would otherwise be landfill and get a doubly huge amount of enjoyment from using them. Getting rid of the polyurethane is normally the first job and a lot are "ruined" before I get a chance to make a mess of them myself or in such disrepair that they would otherwise be off the great golf club valhalla in the sky.

I don't like the shining "lollipop" finish and often have to start again if I get it wrong. It is only my time I am wasting. I have over-sanded the odd crown, guilty. Need to find out what face progression is. It is just as much about the journey as reaching the destination though. My mistakes are still clubs I'll use.

I have shot under par many many times, but the level par round I had this summer at Loch Lomond using woods I have restored myself and Grouville senior's 1967 tourney irons will live longer in my memory than a lot of the 68s. Bentleys in the car-park, thousands of pounds worth of golf equipment all around and I striped a drive down the first with a velocitized driver, the first club I had stripped down, stained, varnished and re-whipped myself. Don't care what anyone else thinks, but I walked off that tee feeling bulletproof and ten feet tall. The stain was uneven, crown scratched, whipping wonky and I did not give one solitary sh!t.

Would I have rather been using a splendid old Penna or professionally refinished M85 or something? Yes, but there is still something very satisfying about resurrecting something yourself and using it, flaws and all.

[jonnygrouville]

And if anyone does have any criticisms of my restoration work with constructive advice on what I should be doing, I would love to hear it!

[birly-shirly]

Splendid work Jonny - in your garage and on the bonny, bonny banks (of Loch Lomond that is, not the cathedrals of capitalism)! Carry right along.

[CHE KJARRVERA]

[quote name='jonnygrouville' timestamp='1422738932' post='10857947'][quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1422664585' post='10852829'] In my opinion,about 90% of the club's shown have been ruined by the refinisher. Just because they are over glossy polyurethaned and shine, they are wonderful. Face progression, crown sanding, scoring through the screws and passed the face into the neck,playability ruined by a shaft too long, just are ignored by the ignorant. CHARLEY PENNA [/quote]

Hmmm. The clubs I have been trying to restore look like they have been done by an amateur because they have been done by an amateur. I work in a bank and get a huge amount of pleasure from my restoration efforts in the odd hour here and there in the evenings, something that is more akin to therapy than a hobby.

Am I ruining anything good? I rarely pay more than a tenner for a club that would otherwise be landfill and get a doubly huge amount of enjoyment from using them. Getting rid of the polyurethane is normally the first job and a lot are "ruined" before I get a chance to make a mess of them myself or in such disrepair that they would otherwise be off the great golf club valhalla in the sky.

I don't like the shining "lollipop" finish and often have to start again if I get it wrong. It is only my time I am wasting. I have over-sanded the odd crown, guilty. Need to find out what face progression is. It is just as much about the journey as reaching the destination though. My mistakes are still clubs I'll use.

I have shot under par many many times, but the level par round I had this summer at Loch Lomond using woods I have restored myself and Grouville senior's 1967 tourney irons will live longer in my memory than a lot of the 68s. Bentleys in the car-park, thousands of pounds worth of golf equipment all around and I striped a drive down the first with a velocitized driver, the first club I had stripped down, stained, varnished and re-whipped myself. Don't care what anyone else thinks, but I walked off that tee feeling bulletproof and ten feet tall. The stain was uneven, crown scratched, whipping wonky and I did not give one solitary sh!t.

Would I have rather been using a splendid old Penna or professionally refinished M85 or something? Yes, but there is still something very satisfying about resurrecting something yourself and using it, flaws and all.[/quote]Nice one, Jonny.

Years ago I paid good money on a few occasions to pros at respectable clubs for repairing woods. These gents displayed workmanship that would have been an insult to a first year cabinetry apprentice. My clubs came back with visible drip marks, paint on the sole plates due to inaccurate masking, any trace of decals long gone, and whipping buried underneath the (dripping) lacquer.

Similarly, in recent years I have removed and refitted loose inserts and sole plates from a handful of 1970's Titleist laminate woods picked up for a few dollars; what I discovered is that the previous repairs + original precision of manufacturing was pretty average (imagine that their persimmons would have fared better).

I'm sure my examples are just chance occurrences / outliers and that the vast majority of club technicians in the era of wooden 'woods' were skilled craftsmen. It does give me pause to wonder, however, what is apparently wrong with the superficial repairs many of us do for pleasure these days. After all some of us do have skill with tools and our repairs are more often than not being applied to clubs that were destined for a dumpster if not sold at a thrift store. Furthermore if we are likely not altering the swingweight or other characteristics of any given club, what is the issue, right?

Keep up the good work and those excellent scoring rounds.

[stixman]

Complete agreement on the foregoing. It's far better to keep real woods alive with what skills and love we have than to mope in the corner bemoaning the loss of craftsmen to the trade.

The last good one in the UK was Paul Gibson. Like so many others he also had top golfers names on his cv, , but did his clients put them into serious play?....I never knew.

[xgolfx]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1422459773' post='10834471']
Not about Seve's driver but a nice reference to his TP 3 wood. When I think of clubs that became iconic in a single shot, I think of Hogan's 1 iron, Sarazen's 4 wood and Watson's SW. I also think this belongs in that group. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1bhaazbSeI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1bhaazbSeI[/url]
[/quote]



I sent the video to the fellow who actually delivered the 3 wood to Seve . He told me Seve paid $200 for 2 three woods

CHARLEY PENNA