Phil Mickelson & Gambling

[ea19]

First - let me say, I have a ton of respect for Phil Mickelson. He is, obviously, all time great player, he is a great ambassador for the game, and, typically, is very classy individual. I am a fan and wish him well.

 

When his insider trading issue came out last year - I wondered how appropriate it was for such a prolific player to be so tight with a notorious and powerful gambler. Gambling / betting with guys you are playing with is one thing and I have no issue with that.

 

See attached link - pretty interesting story in general. But reading this makes me wonder further if it is an appropriate relationship.

 

Billy Walters is a gambler so powerful he alone can change lines. He also works very hard to stay hidden, he has other 'runners' place bets for him so no one knows how much he is influencing or betting. Any other sport would not be happy with one of their biggest stars so tight with a notoriously powerful sports gambler. If this was baseball or basketball, I am sure the commissioners would discourage the player from being so close to this person. Obviously, all sorts of improprieties could occur - many without Phil's knowledge or intention.

 

Anyway - that is my comment and reason for posting. Just seems like a concerning mix to me but no one at the PGA Tour in Ponte Vedra seems to care - which maybe I am crazy.

 

Pretty interesting read regardless.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12280555/how-billy-walters-became-sports-most-successful-controversial-bettor

[rafal]

It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.

[Hawkeye77]

Really nothing in that article about Phil other than mentioning the open investigation on the Dean Foods part of things.

Interesting, they were kind of messing with Phil last summer, then he was cleared on the one case [u]after[/u] lots of bad publicity for him, and everything has been really silent since.

My take (obviously knowing nothing about any facts regarding the investigation) is the government may have gotten the message about leaks and the damage it was doing at the time and has been much more careful in its approach. Of course, lots of other juicier and also plausible explanations.

[tatertot]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?

[Joebirds55]

[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?

[SHIVAN]

Gambling is legal. Morality police at it again?

[quote]"It was scrupulously set up to be in compliance with all the gaming regulations. They were better set up legally than your average business, let's put it that way."[/quote]

[Joebirds55]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1423542230' post='10922409']
Gambling is legal. Morality police at it again?
[/quote]

100% agree. No problem at all with that by any means.

But a guy like Walters constantly under investigation you'd think would just enjoy his fortune.

As for Phil, nothing came out of the investigation but it surely changed Phil's image for a lot of golf fans.

[Bingo1976]

[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423541892' post='10922389']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?
[/quote]

Plenty of old brown and yellow guys making millions out of fixing cricket and soccer matches the world over.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423542463' post='10922441']
...but it surely changed Phil's image for a lot of golf fans.
[/quote]

Because people are petty, jealous idiots. They believe that because they do not like something like gambling, that all gamblers are bad people, immoral, heathens, etc.

Fact is sports betting is legal in Las Vegas. What if Phil hung out with Steve Wynn, would that be "better", or more palatable, for the average golf fan to feel better about themselves and their alignment with a "degenerate gambler" like Phil?

You see the hypocritical businessman who hates gamblers can see more of himself in Steve Wynn, the real estate and resort magnate. They see nothing in common with the "smarmy sports bettor" placing action on a DII college hoops game trying to score a million profit for the week.

[mandudebro]

[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423541892' post='10922389']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?
[/quote]

You're seriously begrudging 45-50 year olds who come in to work at 7am and work through 7pm? And as anyone who lives on the coasts in a metropolitan area knows, $250k doesn't go very far anymore. Can't believe some of the stuff I read these days...

[knock it close]

[quote name='mandudebro' timestamp='1423545861' post='10922719']
[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423541892' post='10922389']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?
[/quote]

You're seriously begrudging 45-50 year olds who come in to work at 7am and work through 7pm? And as anyone who lives on the coasts in a metropolitan area knows, $250k doesn't go very far anymore. Can't believe some of the stuff I read these days...
[/quote]It seems like the ol' bud fox "how many yachts can you water ski behind" adage. I'm not sure but if 1 is fun 2 has got to be better. Also depending on the line of work you are in and where you live the 250k per year could still dry up pretty quickly if you don't alter your lifestyles. Lots of times guys who make a fair amount of money, but not as much as people around them end up over spending to keep up appearance and thus don't have much savings, happens to athletes all the time.

[hayzooos]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1423546272' post='10922747']
[quote name='mandudebro' timestamp='1423545861' post='10922719']
[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423541892' post='10922389']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?
[/quote]

You're seriously begrudging 45-50 year olds who come in to work at 7am and work through 7pm? And as anyone who lives on the coasts in a metropolitan area knows, $250k doesn't go very far anymore. Can't believe some of the stuff I read these days...
[/quote]It seems like the ol' bud fox "how many yachts can you water ski behind" adage. I'm not sure but if 1 is fun 2 has got to be better. Also depending on the line of work you are in and where you live the 250k per year could still dry up pretty quickly if you don't alter your lifestyles. Lots of times guys who make a fair amount of money, but not as much as people around them end up over spending to keep up appearance and thus don't have much savings, happens to athletes all the time.
[/quote]
I'd happen to agree that $250,000 really isn't that much depending on where you live. If that's all the household income you make, it's through a job, you own a house, and have a few kids...it's not like that would be enough to afford yachts and multiple houses all over the place. It would be a comfortable life, but it's not like you're blowing your nose with $100 bills or anything.

If you know anyone that makes that and more, you'll understand it's not about the money. Most of those guys don't sit there and think about how much money they have, they think about how they can do whatever is it they're doing better, how they can have an impact on other people. That happens to be why they make a lot of money too because what they bring to the table is worth a lot more than doing the same thing day in and day out.

That's not always the case, you'll always have your incredibly greedy people who have no problem fleecing others to put a buck in their own pocket, but from what I've learned and personally witnessed, those greaseballs are far fewer than the media would lead you to believe. Not all 'rich' or wealthy people are scumbags.

[OldGolfer87]

Phil is a adult and honestly ...... he is allowed to do anything he chooses to do .....why is some so interested in what professionals do during their personal life away from the sport they play ?

and i am not trying to pick a fight but what he does with his life , money , family ..ect .... is no one else's business but his and someone who might be critical of Phil's or any other professional

and what they do with their life away from sport is just out of line , why can't this about golf instead of TMZ as this is a golf site not a magazine about life choices ?

[ea19]

Yes - my comments are not about the morality of gambling or what Phil can or can't do. My comments are about a prominent athlete so close to a sports gambler. I know that if this were Baseball or Basketball - who have both had major incidents involving the gambling effecting the legitimacy of their sports - this would be a bigger issue. Phil is often considered a favorite or one of the favorites, the legitimacy of those lines and performance could easily be called into question.

Phil is so loaded I doubt he would ever become 'indebted' to this guy to the point where he was doing something he did not want to.

I think golf governance is behind the times though - both in regards to drug testing, things like this.

[Joebirds55]

[quote name='mandudebro' timestamp='1423545861' post='10922719']
[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423541892' post='10922389']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?
[/quote]

You're seriously begrudging 45-50 year olds who come in to work at 7am and work through 7pm? And as anyone who lives on the coasts in a metropolitan area knows, $250k doesn't go very far anymore. Can't believe some of the stuff I read these days...
[/quote]

Jeez some comments here can be taken to the extreme....

Begrudging? No. Not begrudging at all.

But when does the hustle end for some people? That's all I'm saying.

And one of the other comments above mentions it not being about the money. I do agree with this. I think its an addiction to success, winning, etc. But money is certainly an indicator of success to many people.

[The7thLetter]

The hustle never stops my man. Doesn't matter how much you have, there's always more.

As a golfer, I'm sure you can relate. I don't think many of us would get to a point in our games and say okay that's good enough.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='ea19' timestamp='1423562190' post='10923093']
Yes - my comments are not about the morality of gambling or what Phil can or can't do. My comments are about a prominent athlete so close to a sports gambler. I know that if this were Baseball or Basketball - who have both had major incidents involving the gambling effecting the legitimacy of their sports - this would be a bigger issue. Phil is often considered a favorite or one of the favorites, the legitimacy of those lines and performance could easily be called into question.

Phil is so loaded I doubt he would ever become 'indebted' to this guy to the point where he was doing something he did not want to.

I think golf governance is behind the times though - both in regards to drug testing, things like this.
[/quote]

You are covertly (maybe overtly) accusing Phil of throwing results. Every statement you make indicates that somehow Phil is using this guy as a private book, or somehow in bed with him to the point that if Walters lays a ton of cash on Phil to tank, Phil tanks on command....

Guess what, not everyone lacks integrity. Just because you might be tempted to throw results for what [b]you[/b] feel are large sums of cash, not everyone would, and certainly not for 250k, 500k or whatever. Think about it, the purse in every tournament is $1,000,000. Walters would have to be offering Phil some sort of cash OVER $1,000,000 to do anything other than win.

In that case, it becomes a non-story because [u][i][b]OF COURSE[/b][/i][/u] FIGJAM is trying to win.

[bullie76]

[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423542463' post='10922441']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1423542230' post='10922409']
Gambling is legal. Morality police at it again?
[/quote]

100% agree. No problem at all with that by any means.

But a guy like Walters constantly under investigation you'd think would just enjoy his fortune.

As for Phil, nothing came out of the investigation but it surely changed Phil's image for a lot of golf fans.
[/quote]

Exactly. Perhaps he doesn't care what the public thinks, but I doubt it. Poor judgement on his part imo.

[hogans71]

[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1423541892' post='10922389']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1423537669' post='10921889']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1423535804' post='10921651']
It was definitely a misstep for Phil. I don't want to read too much into it, but if any other stuff start surfacing I am kinda done with him. I am really not digging the old white guys with huge money rigging everything just so they make huge-ier money.
[/quote]

Wait ... How does "old white guys" play into this? If they were young or their skin had more pigment in it, you would be OK with it?
[/quote]

I don't interpret the comment as literally as you but understand the sentiment. The article mentions it too, that other guys his age or that successful are sitting on a beach somewhere. For a lot of these wealthy guys, when is enough enough? You see it in every industry too. Guys making a quarter mil a year with how much in their bank accounts, could retire tomorrow after working for 25-30 years yet still come into worm at 7am, leave at 7pm. Not equating that to breaking the law, but when does it end?
[/quote]

When is enough, enough?

That's no one's business whatsoever...

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='bullie76' timestamp='1423576445' post='10923545']
Exactly. Perhaps he doesn't care what the public thinks, but I doubt it. Poor judgement on his part imo.[/quote]

Again, if he was best friends with Steve Wynn, the perception would be different because of people's prejudice. Steve Wynn owns several very large sports books, and does have people who work for him whose [i][b]sole job[/b][/i] is to part the general populace from their money. Sounds like a swell guy....

Somehow, Phil would be so hip and cool to be linked to Steve Wynn, but link him to the other side, the guy with enough knowledge and money to consistently BEAT Steve Wynn and the other sports books out of their money, and he is in a "PR crisis".

Laughable.

[KYMAR]

Based on that ESPN story I just read, this thread and the title eespecially is just an agenda driven smear.

Phil Mickelson plays golf with a business man in Vegas who owns golf courses there? Clearly he's up to no good.

Thats a huge reach you're making to associate Phil and ilicit Gambling, and your "just an innocent observer myself, but SOMEONE could easily call into question.... " that's what you're doing, or trying to do. And all based on THIS story? Ridiculous bordering on pathetic.

[patrick421]

Terrible thread.

Don't count other peoples money.

Don't worry about how other people spend said money you shouldn't be counting.

Don't create smear threads looking to stir the pot about a guy who has been cleared of any criminal mischief.

Sincerely,

The Common Sense/Logic Brigade

[hogans71]

[quote name='patrick421' timestamp='1423580155' post='10923897']
Terrible thread.

Don't count other peoples money.

Don't worry about how other people spend said money you shouldn't be counting.

Don't create smear threads looking to stir the pot about a guy who has been cleared of any criminal mischief.

Sincerely,

The Common Sense/Logic Brigade
[/quote]

Perfect end to this thread...

[Titleist1455]

nonetheless...interesting read.

[MadGolfer76]

Smells like the teapot is on.

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='patrick421' timestamp='1423580155' post='10923897']
Terrible thread.

Don't count other peoples money.

Don't worry about how other people spend said money you shouldn't be counting.

Don't create smear threads looking to stir the pot about a guy who has been cleared of any criminal mischief.

Sincerely,

The Common Sense/Logic Brigade
[/quote]

Your best post, ever.

[legitimategolf]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1423542230' post='10922409']
Gambling is legal.[/quote]

Not for me it isn't. Unless you count state lotteries.

[golfortennis]

I am certain after the purse splitting fiasco on the Senior Tour 20 years ago, the tour has rules to cover gambling *infractions*. And Mickelson did not commit any of these sins as far as we can tell. So why would the tour do anything? Plus, there's the independent contractor aspect.

It's the sponsors who would care about this kind of thing, not the tour.

[Arizonalefty59]

If Phil was throwing dice on the corner then I'd be concerned. This story doesn't bother me.

[hogans71]

[quote name='legitimategolf' timestamp='1423588537' post='10924999']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1423542230' post='10922409']
Gambling is legal.[/quote]

Not for me it isn't. Unless you count state lotteries.
[/quote]

Doesn't the state of New York have casinos? And dog tracks? And horse tracks?