UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[Blade Junkie]

Having been a little inspired by Golfingfanatic's John Letters loft find on another thread today, I thought it would be fun to actually build up a proper reference thread on UK classic irons, woods, and putters

 

 

 

Certainly from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s there were a number of great sets of UK-made blades, putter designs, and woods with fancy inserts, etc etc, so the idea is for the UK guys to show our friends across the pond and around the world all sorts of cool stuff they might not have seen before.

 

I'm going to kick things off with a medley of John Letters adverts, pulled from my collection of vintage golf magazines ...

 

 

In chronological order:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

UK Team .... Birly, Johnny, Stixman, Moaning M, drpurpell et al .. over to you !!! Let's see what you've got lurking in the dark recesses of garages, garden sheds, cupboards, cellars and attic spaces ... you never know we might even be able to tempt Okesa back to the fold with this ! :)

[oldschoolrocker]

Bravo Zulu BJ. Thanks a million. Yeah, I miss old O, wish he'd come back.

[scomac2002]

The heads on the 18/70 Powermaster look very similar to the heads on a part set of Wilson Grand Master irons I have in the basement. The vintage seems about right as the Wilsons came from my nephew a number of years ago. My BIL immigrated from England in the late 70's and I wonder if he brought those Wilsons over with him at the time.

[stixman]

+1 Geoff. So pleased you made this happen.
Just as we have repositories here for all things MacGregor and Wilson and PowerBilt etc, etc, then this is the defining place for those excellent UK manufacturers who lacked the financial clout to make it to the 2000s but lacked nothing in the knowledge and technology stakes.

[pdgolferman]

John Letters history....

[attachment=2629361:_rated_reviewed_large_golfIllustrated.pdf]

[stixman]

I spoke to Roger Mace, a well known face in the Golf Pro ranks and now in his 80s I believe, told me why the Master Model looked so much like the MacGregor irons, (I guess the Tommy Armour 3852s/ Neutralisers), of the time.
Fred Daly and Dai Rees came back from a trip to the USA with sets of the Mac. irons and asked John Letters to make a copy, which he did and as Bernard Gallacher said, 'only better'.

Before our American friends get over-exercised about plagiarism, Tommy Armour brought this design over from the UK from the Spalding acquired Robert Forgan. And where did Tommy get the design from before Forgan, from a 1928 blade design of Slazenger's (I think), but certainly 1928 and certainly in hickory!

Supporting photos will appear soon.

[pdgolferman]

.....Took a peep around my stuff....Funny what you forget about. Never really knew about dates either. Thanks for the adverts, BJ.

Lee Trevino Super Mex.

[attachment=2629363:IMAG0747.jpg]
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Bernie Gallacher Original Master Model 1 iron.....MacGregor Copy if ever there was one

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Master Mex 2 Head Covers. Soft sheepskin inside.

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Master Mex Laminates.

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LP 100

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Regards
pd

[BIG STU]

I am loving this furthering my education on classic golf stuff. Before coming on WRX and getting in this corner of the world I had little knowledge on equipment other than the "English" sized balls from across the pond. Some really interesting well crafted equipment. Keep those posts coming I am really enjoying them!!!!

[jonnygrouville]

Golden Goose! Love this club.

If this thread wasn't worth it for the clubs, it would have been for that painting of Trevino. Brilliant.

[Bella Woods]

+1 with BIG STU on this - I really enjoy reading/seeing clubs from various parts
of the world. Keep up the good work......

[stixman]

Left hand blade is the 1947 forged model. It shows one shamrock (not a star) which is a nice touch in deference to Fred Daly's Irish origin.
One shamrock was the ladies model, two shamrocks for regular and three for superstars. Note the Swilcan Bridge cleekmark, a throwback to the John Letters origins in 1918.
The right hand blade is the 1958 model, the first to be cast at the Alston Foundry using the Shaw process with ceramic and gel.

The 1947 model was totally notable in that it was my first set of clubs as a 13 year old!

[pdgolferman]

...Got asked a couple of weeks ago to date these....They were found in an unused locker in the bag room...The bag had a note asking the owner to contact the secretary to pay the locker rental. the last 10 years worth of secretary's cannot recall ever asking / issuing remittance notes. I was there for lunch today, so I thought i'd take some photo's.

Dai Rees StrokeMaster Mark 2 set, 3-sw

[attachment=2629587:IMAG0776.jpg]
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Golden Goose Bullseye style putter

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1, 3 & 4 woods. (1 wood shown)

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Regards
pd

[Langlands]

Hi all, another great thread. I have a couple of sets of Letters irons, in fact with the exception of a couple of Ram wedges and a Wilson R90 wedge all of my vintage irons are Letters.

The Master Models irons were an eBay purchase a few years ago - I only have 3-9 irons. I gave them a bit of a makeover this winter, as the grips were shot and the ferrules were in pretty bad shape. I took them all apart, cleaned up the heads, redid the paint fill and gave the a new set of ferrules. New grips too as well as 10g tip weights to bring the swingweights up - the previous owner had installed their own homemade tip weights in the form of some screws and nails, I had a right old time getting some of them out!

The original shafts are still in good shape so they stayed. Overall I'm pleased with the work I did, now just waiting on some better weather in order to get them back out on a golf course!

The other set of irons is another set of SuperMex heads, as per the other post. Another eBay purchase last year, had to buy them as soon as saw them although to be honest I wasn't planning to buy more clubs. They are in good order, I have the 3-SW (including a 10 iron in place of a PW). Once I finish the woods that I'm restoring I will set about getting these shafted up - I have a set of graphite shafts that I'm going to put in them.

Also have a Letters Lee Trevino putter - head has seen better days but still perfectly usable. It will get an outing with the irons if this rain ever stops.

Hope the pictures are OK, I can post some more if required.

[attachment=2629611:IMG_0694.JPG]

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[pdgolferman]

drpurpell....

That putter doesn't look too bad. Better condition than this old ratbag. British engineering at it's best.

Dunlop / Arnold Palmer

[attachment=2629679:IMAG0790.jpg]
[attachment=2629683:IMAG0794.jpg]

Regards
pd

[oldschoolrocker]

Not only are you cool cats from across the pond kicking our *** in the Ryder Cup, but now you start showing off with this thread. Well played lads. And thanks for sharing with us.

[birly-shirly]

I've got shamefully little to post on this thread. There's my frankenstick putter - a golden goose bullseye style blade that was an early experiment in grip-transplant, shaft-shortening and lead-weighting. Ugly, but the first putter with which I putted decently, disgracefully late in life.

Apart from that, it's all memories. As a junior, I had a John Letters Swingmaster 3 wood - the first club with which I learned to hit a draw off the tee. It had a black-painted face, which I stripped to discover that it was actually hiding a decent solid block. My first ever irons were a half-share with my older brother in a half-set of Max Faulkner Pinseekers - which, if they weren't rubbish, certainly weren't flattered by the grips that stretched and sagged loosely off the shafts like old rugby socks. The first clubs I could call my own were a half-set of Ben Sayers Centenary. A pal discovered that he could do just about anything with the SI from that set, and I traded it for a square toed Hagen wedge. I have no idea where any of those clubs went.

My first full set of irons was a curiosity. Ryder was, I think, a british manufacturer and one of their lines was called the Powerbar - with what looked like a radiator filling the cavity-back. Well, I had a set that looked more or less identical, also called Powerbar, except mine had a shaft-over hosel design and were badged "Vance". What does anyone remember about Ryder? When I was a junior, their woods were everywhere at my club - and when the annual pro am came round there were as many sets of their forged blades in the various pro bags as anything else. I'm sure I recognised more sets of Ryders than any of the more august British marques like Letters or Sayers.

[pdgolferman]

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1424619571' post='11003375']
Left hand blade is the 1947 forged model. It shows one shamrock (not a star) which is a nice touch in deference to Fred Daly's Irish origin.
One shamrock was the ladies model, two shamrocks for regular and three for superstars. Note the Swilcan Bridge cleekmark, a throwback to the John Letters origins in 1918.
The right hand blade is the 1958 model, the first to be cast at the Alston Foundry using the Shaw process with ceramic and gel.

The 1947 model was totally notable in that it was my first set of clubs as a 13 year old!
[/quote]

Mr Stixman...

Your attention to club detail and dates is most intruiging....Do you have a good source for reference?

Regards
pd

[stixman]

No, sorry, just old age. mental infirmity, a good memory notwithstanding.
Seriously, the 1947 date is documented in the JLs history in various sources on the web. The 1958 is what I have managed to glean from others around the Alston network over the years. JL were the first customers (or should I say the first brand, because I guess Dunlop would hve had their hands on them by that time) to use the Shaw Process quickly followed by George Nicoll with the Cotton models.
The Shamrock thing is also to be found on the net, or it might have been Roger Mace.

[pdgolferman]

Ref. The Fred Daly clubs, was there any significance in having delafit stamped on the ferrule?

Regards
pd

[stixman]

Delafit was factory spot welding system which did a great job of fixing the shaft to the hosel. The downside was that shaft replacement on these was not a favourite of the Club Professional.
My PGA training manual from the period describes how to remove a broken shaft, using heat, obo nails, more heat and prayer. Pulling shafts for replacement and retaining the old shaft appears out of the question.

[fluffy265]

I thought you lads might appreciate these beauties....

[attachment=2645033:SLAZ2.jpg]

[attachment=2645031:2and7.jpg]

J

[stixman]

Very,very nice. Thanks for showing.
tSm is of course the Slazenger Tour Model. I was showing a set of TSM persimmons to a friend this morning, Driver 2,3,and 4. They all came out of the factory Swing Weighted at E0 which I find both curious and interesting. I had heard that old swing weights were higher but this seemed remarkable....maybe custom made? They don't look like they have been worked on after sale.

[fluffy265]

Thanks, I'd kill for set of the Slazenger Tour model, I've never seen that model anywhere else. That 2 iron pictured came with a partial set of the Gradidge Tournament model, which are stainless and "colorkrom"... though not much of that is visible these day's. They've got TT green band Rocket shafts. And of course they're sensational to hit.

J

[pdgolferman]

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1425301585' post='11059589']
Delafit was factory spot welding system which did a great job of fixing the shaft to the hosel. The downside was that shaft replacement on these was not a favourite of the Club Professional.
My PGA training manual from the period describes how to remove a broken shaft, using heat, obo nails, more heat and prayer. Pulling shafts for replacement and retaining the old shaft appears out of the question.
[/quote]

Mr Stix....

Thanks for your info.
In a bizarre twist of something, I aquired a set of these [2-9] whilst collecting a set of Hogan Directors....Both sets for less than the price of 500 range balls.....I didn't want to steal your birthday thunder with my birthday wonder, so let it pass.....and then I forgot about replying.
They say memory loss creeps up on you....Mine just plain got up and walked out.
It's good to know about the shafts....There was something that just wasn't quite right at the time when I handled them until I figured out that some of the [TT Rocket A-flex] shafts are missing inches under the grips. Anyhoo, nice implments all the same.

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[stixman]

What a nice set of heads!
With the '2 shamrock' marks they should be regular mens in weight but you say they have been fitted with Delafit A shafts, which would have been at the factory. My 1947 club isn't Delafitted but standard pinned with a longer ferrule.
I guess there must have been a 10 year production run on these and yours must have come at the tail end, I guess. Going out on limb I would have been surprised that the original John Letters people would have used Delafit, it's a pretty tacky way of attaching shafts.

[pdgolferman]

Thanks again for the info. Much appreciated.
Have you seen any shafts fitted the delafit way? To my eye, they have no marks on the hosel to indicate some kind of welding process and no pins fitted either.
pd

[stixman]

No Pins, just an internal spot weld.
I'll copy the page from the PGA Manual which details how to get them out. This is baically the same method for getting out any recalcitrant iron shaft stumps.

[pdgolferman]

[quote name='stixman' timestamp='1426753668' post='11171683']
No Pins, just an internal spot weld.
I'll copy the page from the PGA Manual which details how to get them out. This is baically the same method for getting out any recalcitrant iron shaft stumps.
[/quote]

Thanks, I'd like to see that.
Regards
pd

[stixman]

[b]Method of removing broken shaft that has welded fitting[/b].

Heat hosel until cherry red to soften the shaft. Allow to cool.
Drop a pencil or nail into the socket and measure to determine the depth of the socket which will allow you to direct the blowtorch at that particular spot. Drive the prepared masonary nail down opposite sides of the hosel which will form the shaft crsoo section into a figure 8. Having removed the nail, place the blade of the iron head in a vice and apply heat to the point of the weld previously determined until this becomes at least cherry red. Grip the shaft and pull out with long nosed pliers.

[pdgolferman]

Thanks for posting.