UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Not the best photo but culled from Ebay today, Donaldson New Yorker set. Donaldson of Glasgow, last throw of the dice for a famous maker. Reknowned for the Rangefinder series, a must have for the hickory player

 

 

Ah, the New Yorker model, I've recorded two versions and I'd guess this one is the earlier. 

Both shown below.

 

[Jiggered]

On 12/16/2020 at 7:55 PM, Foozle said:

Jiggered, they are entirely original per this extract from the 1933 Wilson catalogue.

 

Foozle, sorry, I missed this when you posted it, very interesting.

 

Do you have a link to a better image?  I can't read the text on this one.

[Foozle]

9 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

Foozle, sorry, I missed this when you posted it, very interesting.

 

Do you have a link to a better image?  I can't read the text on this one.

Jiggered, my 'phone camera always wants to focus on anything but the object I am trying to picture! 🤨 Also it is quite faint print.

However, hopefully this is slightly clearer and legible if you can zoom into it?

[Jiggered]

12 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Jiggered, my 'phone camera always wants to focus on anything but the object I am trying to picture! 🤨 Also it is quite faint print.

However, hopefully this is slightly clearer and legible if you can zoom into it?

 

Thanks, that's great.

Strange that the normal iron was the "77" and the flat sole mashie niblick was the "7", I'd have expected it the other way round.

 

I found this short article while looking for your page.

 

https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/golfd/article/1966jun35.pdf

 

[Foozle]

Got these coming.

Bit of a curiosity. I was attracted by the listing as Slazenger Precision irons which I translate as Hogan Precision. More excited to find they are 3,5,7&9 as I have a short set of Slazenger Ben Hogan's 4,6,8&E. Fate?

However on looking at the picture the heads are very similar to '61 Slazenger Hogan Power Thrusts. Also produced here in the UK as Slazenger Hogan Power Thrust - I have three sets of those - long story!

 

The shape is entirely different to what I recognise as "Precision"

It seems odd that Slazenger would produce two differently branded heads or that Hogan would permit Slazenger to market their current model under a previous Hogan model name?

I proceeded to buy more out of that curiosity. I will no longer have created the Nervana of a complete set of Precision irons (2-E) but now have two short sets of different models so a good result all the same. 🙂

[TheDeanAbides]

32 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Got these coming.

Bit of a curiosity. I was attracted by the listing as Slazenger Precision irons which I translate as Hogan Precision. More excited to find they are 3,5,7&9 as I have a short set of Slazenger Ben Hogan's 4,6,8&E. Fate?

However on looking at the picture the heads are very similar to '61 Slazenger Hogan Power Thrusts. Also produced here in the UK as Slazenger Hogan Power Thrust - I have three sets of those - long story!

 

The shape is entirely different to what I recognise as "Precision"

It seems odd that Slazenger would produce two differently branded heads or that Hogan would permit Slazenger to market their current model under a previous Hogan model name?

I proceeded to buy more out of that curiosity. I will no longer have created the Nervana of a complete set of Precision irons (2-E) but now have two short sets of different models so a good result all the same. 🙂

As I understand it, there may be slight differences between the Hogan and Slazenger versions because the Slazengers were designed with the small ball in mind. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

52 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Got these coming.

Bit of a curiosity. I was attracted by the listing as Slazenger Precision irons which I translate as Hogan Precision. More excited to find they are 3,5,7&9 as I have a short set of Slazenger Ben Hogan's 4,6,8&E. Fate?

However on looking at the picture the heads are very similar to '61 Slazenger Hogan Power Thrusts. Also produced here in the UK as Slazenger Hogan Power Thrust - I have three sets of those - long story!

 

The shape is entirely different to what I recognise as "Precision"

It seems odd that Slazenger would produce two differently branded heads or that Hogan would permit Slazenger to market their current model under a previous Hogan model name?

I proceeded to buy more out of that curiosity. I will no longer have created the Nervana of a complete set of Precision irons (2-E) but now have two short sets of different models so a good result all the same. 🙂

 

From what I can see, the back muscle looks similar to (but not identical) the Precisions, but the toe grind definitely resembles the Power Thrusts. 

Interesting if it was done for play with the small ball, and what advantages that grind would bring to the small ball.

[Foozle]

5 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

From what I can see, the back muscle looks similar to (but not identical) the Precisions, but the toe grind definitely resembles the Power Thrusts. 

Interesting if it was done for play with the small ball, and what advantages that grind would bring to the small ball.

I will be interested to compare directly with the Power Thrusts when these "Precisions" do arrive. I will try to post pictures including a comparison with standard Precisions and Starburst/Personal models.

The muscle extends much higher up compared to true Precisions. It looks like the tick on the muscle only applies to the shorter irons  the longer irons have a straight line at the top of the muscle. Time will tell!

Love a mystery!

 

[Foozle]

32 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

As I understand it, there may be slight differences between the Hogan and Slazenger versions because the Slazengers were designed with the small ball in mind. 

The differences between Ft Worth Hogan's and Slazenger Hogan's has always intrigued me, especially playing characteristics. I have posted that question many times here but so far have not found anyone who has played both.

The intrigue here though s Slazengers use of the Precision name on what is clearly a later and distinctively different model?

[TheDeanAbides]

20 minutes ago, Foozle said:

The differences between Ft Worth Hogan's and Slazenger Hogan's has always intrigued me, especially playing characteristics. I have posted that question many times here but so far have not found anyone who has played both.

The intrigue here though s Slazengers use of the Precision name on what is clearly a later and distinctively different model?

What's the serial number?

[Foozle]

10 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

What's the serial number?

I don't have them in my possession yet. The pictures on the listing don't seem to show a number on the ferrules but these are often very faint with wear and age. I will confirm when I receive the clubs.

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, Foozle said:

I don't have them in my possession yet. The pictures on the listing don't seem to show a number on the ferrules but these are often very faint with wear and age. I will confirm when I receive the clubs.

Sorry, I missed that you haven't received them yet. Let's hope we can get to the bottom of it! 

[Jiggered]

Just to add to the mystery, here's a similar Precision head with a slightly different design.  

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Jiggered

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1 hour ago, Foozle said:

I will be interested to compare directly with the Power Thrusts when these "Precisions" do arrive. I will try to post pictures including a comparison with standard Precisions and Starburst/Personal models.

The muscle extends much higher up compared to true Precisions. It looks like the tick on the muscle only applies to the shorter irons  the longer irons have a straight line at the top of the muscle. Time will tell!

Love a mystery!

 

 

Yes, the muscle definitely extends higher up, the tick is less pronounced, and also the muscle pad itself seems thinner. I didn't realise that the tick was only on the short irons, though. Weird indeed.

 

36 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

Just to add to the mystery, here's a similar Precision head with a slightly different design.  

 

 

Scotchblade Precision?

[Foozle]

46 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

Just to add to the mystery, here's a similar Precision head with a slightly different design.  

 

The plot thickens.....🤔

[Jiggered]

This thread is slipping down the page again so here's my latest buy to lift it back up, a putter this time.

 

I've been on the look-out for a Forgan Black Magic putter for a while so when this one appeared on ebay in good condition I made a bid. It arrived today and condition is as good as it looked.

 

I'm not usually a fan of mallet putters but this one has a nice feel to it, a touch over 500g in weight and 34.5" long.

 

[Brewski_golfs]

A while back I won a set of 61 Macgregor T.A. VFQ AT1’s at auction.     There was a putter included which at quick glance I assumed was an iron master,  but ended up being a John Letters.  I don’t really know anything about UK clubs so hoping someone here can help.  It cleaned up nicely and the grip is in good shape after some TLC.  Assuming it’s mid 60’s but I also assumed it was an Iron master.   Can anyone help with year, or with if the inlays were originally paint filled and if so what color?  

[Foozle]

8 minutes ago, Brewski_golfs said:

A while back I won a set of 61 Macgregor T.A. VFQ AT1’s at auction.     There was a putter included which at quick glance I assumed was an iron master,  but ended up being a John Letters.  I don’t really know anything about UK clubs so hoping someone here can help.  It cleaned up nicely and the grip is in good shape after some TLC.  Assuming it’s mid 60’s but I also assumed it was an Iron master.   Can anyone help with year, or with if the inlays were originally paint filled and if so what color?  

Brother Jiggered will no doubt correct me but my gut is that this is slightly earlier than you are thinking - possibly late '50's. John Letters were using Profit shafts then and the ferrule is also similar to that on some Fred Daly Master Models I have from that era. Long hosel also points to earlier? I also think they dropped the Bridge cleek mark going into the '60's but I could well be wrong on that.

I can't comment on paint fill at that time - certainly used it on irons but I have 4 JL putters and none show any trace of paint fill.

How deep is it? I have a JL Fred Daly clearly designed for the small ball which takes careful use with the big ball! 

Nice putter BTW! I like the Ironmaster style and have my second TA Ironmaster on its way.

[Brewski_golfs]

2 hours ago, Foozle said:

Brother Jiggered will no doubt correct me but my gut is that this is slightly earlier than you are thinking - possibly late '50's. John Letters were using Profit shafts then and the ferrule is also similar to that on some Fred Daly Master Models I have from that era. Long hosel also points to earlier? I also think they dropped the Bridge cleek mark going into the '60's but I could well be wrong on that.

I can't comment on paint fill at that time - certainly used it on irons but I have 4 JL putters and none show any trace of paint fill.

How deep is it? I have a JL Fred Daly clearly designed for the small ball which takes careful use with the big ball! 

Nice putter BTW! I like the Ironmaster style and have my second TA Ironmaster on its way.

Thanks!  I like it and it's the only JL club in my collection.  Late 50's makes sense as does small ball.  I haven't gamed it, but when using it for practice putting with a modern ball it definitely wants to twist open if you don't hit it towards the heel.  Here is a pic to better show putter size, putter length is 35''

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

6 hours ago, Jiggered said:

This thread is slipping down the page again so here's my latest buy to lift it back up, a putter this time.

 

I've been on the look-out for a Forgan Black Magic putter for a while so when this one appeared on ebay in good condition I made a bid. It arrived today and condition is as good as it looked.

 

I'm not usually a fan of mallet putters but this one has a nice feel to it, a touch over 500g in weight and 34.5" long.

 

Is that a wooden mallet putter? What sort of period? 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

I believe the material used in Black Magic putters was 'Vulcanite' made by boiling rubber in liquid sulphur. Best not to try this at home.

Edited January 21, 2021 by The Aspidistra in the Hall
Heath and safety warning

[Jiggered]

11 hours ago, Brewski_golfs said:

Thanks!  I like it and it's the only JL club in my collection.  Late 50's makes sense as does small ball.  I haven't gamed it, but when using it for practice putting with a modern ball it definitely wants to twist open if you don't hit it towards the heel.  Here is a pic to better show putter size, putter length is 35''

 

 

I can't add anything to Foozle's comments but I do have a brass putter (probably slightly earlier) which is similar to yours.

 

[Jiggered]

9 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Is that a wooden mallet putter? What sort of period? 

 

As The Aspidistra said, I've read that these were made of Vulcanite.

The earliest Black Magic putters were, I believe, at the end of the hickory era and had black painted hickory shafts with a different head shape. Mine is a later model, I'd guess  1940s or 1950s.

 

Forgan also had a wood treatment called Forganite which they used to harden/weatherproof their woods in the hickory days.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Thanks @The Aspidistra in the Hall and @Jiggered for the information. Wouldn't vulcanite feel quite soft, rather like inserts on modern putters?

[Foozle]

15 hours ago, Brewski_golfs said:

Thanks!  I like it and it's the only JL club in my collection.  Late 50's makes sense as does small ball.  I haven't gamed it, but when using it for practice putting with a modern ball it definitely wants to twist open if you don't hit it towards the heel.  Here is a pic to better show putter size, putter length is 35''

Here are some pictures of my Fred Daly.I was referring to the depth of the face which in this case is 20mm at its greatest. Barely makes the equator of a modern ball!

It looks almost identical to the brass one Jiggered has posted pictures of. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1 hour ago, Foozle said:

Here are some pictures of my Fred Daly.I was referring to the depth of the face which in this case is 20mm at its greatest. Barely makes the equator of a modern ball!

It looks almost identical to the brass one Jiggered has posted pictures of. 

Wow, that must require an accurate strike. Even with the small ball, the face looks almost too shallow.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

2 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Thanks @The Aspidistra in the Hall and @Jiggered for the information. Wouldn't vulcanite feel quite soft, rather like inserts on modern putters?

No, it was a hard material. I first encountered it in an insert on a 1909 bulldog brassie. I had to repair a chip in the corner. I have also seen Blackmagic putters which have snapped off at the hosel, a nice clean break, so quite brittle.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

21 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

No, it was a hard material. I first encountered it in an insert on a 1909 bulldog brassie. I had to repair a chip in the corner. I have also seen Blackmagic putters which have snapped off at the hosel, a nice clean break, so quite brittle.

 

Sounds more like graphite, then. I had an old graphite 3w that snapped like that at the hosel. Interesting. I didn't know they made club heads from vulcanised rubber.

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Wow, that must require an accurate strike. Even with the small ball, the face looks almost too shallow.

It does take careful use but rolls well when you do catch it right! 😁

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

12 minutes ago, Foozle said:

It does take careful use but rolls well when you do catch it right! 😁

 

It would be a good to putter to use to promote "hovering" the putter at address and not grounding it.