UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[ColinKelvin]

I dug out the old Letters irons I used as a junior in the 90s and thought some folk might like to see them. MMIIs. Pressty sure they are cast and I have seen a version of them on the bay with a Supermex sombrero logo on too. Did they ever sell these in the states or were they just a small UK maker?

 

 

[Jiggered]

4 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

I dug out the old Letters irons I used as a junior in the 90s and thought some folk might like to see them. MMIIs. Pressty sure they are cast and I have seen a version of them on the bay with a Supermex sombrero logo on too. Did they ever sell these in the states or were they just a small UK maker?

 

 

 

Nice clubs!

 

The set with the sombrero (see pic below) came out around 1981, so I'd guess that yours were produced after the agreement with Lee Trevino had ended.

 

Letters were very strong on exports so I imagine that sets got through to the US.

 

 

 

[ColinKelvin]

12 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

Nice clubs!

 

The set with the sombrero (see pic below) came out around 1981, so I'd guess that yours were produced after the agreement with Lee Trevino had ended.

 

Letters were very strong on exports so I imagine that sets got through to the US.

 

 

 

That makes sense. I think I got mine in around 1991, but they may not have been new stock. They are certainly pretty small blades with thin top lines compared to most of the clubs I have played since, and yet I never thought of them as hard to hit back in the day - the confidence of youth!

 

Back in the 90s I coveted the Letters European Tour blades which were even smaller forged clubs, and looked stunning.

[ColinKelvin]

Sorry, me again. Reading up on Letters (especially on this great thread) and seeing what is out there, these piqued my interest.  The Fred Daly irons seem to have a lot of cachet in the JL history and the stampings on these looks old but the faces are obviously quite modern (as are ths shafts). I notice they don't have the original detail at the top of the hosels either. Did Letters perhaps reissue them in the 80s or 90s?

 

Also, I realise Daly was Irish but what's the significance of the two clover/shamrocks vs other versions of this iron which have three?

 

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by ColinKelvin

[ezgoer]

21 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

I dug out the old Letters irons I used as a junior in the 90s and thought some folk might like to see them. MMIIs. Pressty sure they are cast and I have seen a version of them on the bay with a Supermex sombrero logo on too. Did they ever sell these in the states or were they just a small UK maker?

 

 

There was a Sounder brand that was state side these remind me of. They weren’t super popular but still around. Just looked em up and there’s a low profile version that resembles this from the back only. I actually see some extremely tasteful Sounder Seve models of irons (wow!) so I bet you guys are more than familiar with them.

[Jiggered]

On 10/14/2024 at 1:28 PM, ColinKelvin said:

Sorry, me again. Reading up on Letters (especially on this great thread) and seeing what is out there, these piqued my interest.  The Fred Daly irons seem to have a lot of cachet in the JL history and the stampings on these looks old but the faces are obviously quite modern (as are ths shafts). I notice they don't have the original detail at the top of the hosels either. Did Letters perhaps reissue them in the 80s or 90s?

 

Also, I realise Daly was Irish but what's the significance of the two clover/shamrocks vs other versions of this iron which have three?

 

 

 

The heads are original but someone has gone completely overboard on their restoration and polished them to within an inch of their lives, losing a lot of the stamping along the way.

Then the faces have been re-shot blasted.

They've also been re-shafted with what look to be new-old-stock shafts, this might have been a necessity if the original shafts had rusted through.

 

The general consensus is that the shamrocks indicate the flex of the shaft.

 

Here's a short history of the John Letters Masters Model:

 

 

[Foozle]

4 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

 

 

The heads are original but someone has gone completely overboard on their restoration and polished them to within an inch of their lives, losing a lot of the stamping along the way.

Then the faces have been re-shot blasted.

They've also been re-shafted with what look to be new-old-stock shafts, this might have been a necessity if the original shafts had rusted through.

 

The general consensus is that the shamrocks indicate the flex of the shaft.

 

Here's a short history of the John Letters Masters Model:

 

 

I agree with @Jiggeredthat these have been over restored and reshafted. They were not paint filled from new. However, my understanding is that the shamrocks relate to weight rather than flex. Three shamrocks being heavy. Most wedges I have seen are three shamrock so sets are often "mixed" from new.

[ColinKelvin]

More Letters stuff - these just arrived with me today, in lovely condition. Can't wait to try them out in spring.  I hope they are persimmons not laminates as the European Tour line was Letters' most prestigious one, with forged irons?

 

Also guessing maybe late 80s, or early 90s.

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, ColinKelvin said:

More Letters stuff - these just arrived with me today, in lovely condition. Can't wait to try them out in spring.  I hope they are persimmons not laminates as the European Tour line was Letters' most prestigious one, with forged irons?

 

Also guessing maybe late 80s, or early 90s.

 

 

Nice woods.

They're laminated, as most of the UK produced woods from this date were.

The PGA European Tour came out in 1985.

 

Nice set of irons to go with them here.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186650857272?_skw=letters&itmmeta=01JC93DTMS1VD0EH2F0H710VWT&hash=item2b75420f38:g:zocAAOSw6zlkh1Su&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlOIF8fEP7%2BQ7myold%2FoBT53lTe17JUgaN4ypdorDYfLW2orlSUs1EYELxkbqXIMVPukWGss55i9nx3MoQHUOH%2FAYwDIoct%2B5vexqi2Y%2Bh%2B%2BRoCe%2FUqY%2FFSrztHjmLRBXRTZuUaSuQiiJ0ldfu2ATusYM0dYUN9sd7by09Ie2IQq3odjdcpApJqvB3STl9XP0IDGgePm%2B%2FbLvRTdOVrh6%2FFFubzL6XUFGwoib%2Bnb8tIag%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8Cqt6PiZA

[ColinKelvin]

46 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

Nice woods.

They're laminated, as most of the UK produced woods from this date were.

The PGA European Tour came out in 1985.

 

Nice set of irons to go with them here.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186650857272?_skw=letters&itmmeta=01JC93DTMS1VD0EH2F0H710VWT&hash=item2b75420f38:g:zocAAOSw6zlkh1Su&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwHoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlOIF8fEP7%2BQ7myold%2FoBT53lTe17JUgaN4ypdorDYfLW2orlSUs1EYELxkbqXIMVPukWGss55i9nx3MoQHUOH%2FAYwDIoct%2B5vexqi2Y%2Bh%2B%2BRoCe%2FUqY%2FFSrztHjmLRBXRTZuUaSuQiiJ0ldfu2ATusYM0dYUN9sd7by09Ie2IQq3odjdcpApJqvB3STl9XP0IDGgePm%2B%2FbLvRTdOVrh6%2FFFubzL6XUFGwoib%2Bnb8tIag%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8Cqt6PiZA

Thanks! That's good to know. I really enjoy hitting my laminate blonde Zing woods so these will be interesting as more compact heads to have a go with. I did see those irons (and one or two other Letters PGAET iron sets) on the bay. Tempting as I always wanted them growing up... 

[ezgoer]

13 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

More Letters stuff - these just arrived with me today, in lovely condition. Can't wait to try them out in spring.  I hope they are persimmons not laminates as the European Tour line was Letters' most prestigious one, with forged irons?

 

Also guessing maybe late 80s, or early 90s.

Fine looking clubs! I like the color combo and the fancier inserts with screws. I think all my laminate's (PING, Wilson, H&B) have pored inserts other then some al shafted & inserted Mac’s 

 

[ColinKelvin]

Still building this bag - added the forged irons to the woods I got earlier.

 

My question now is - does anyone know if John Letters ever released a European Tour branded bag??

 

 

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, ColinKelvin said:

Still building this bag - added the forged irons to the woods I got earlier.

 

My question now is - does anyone know if John Letters ever released a European Tour branded bag??

 

 

I am sure I have seen one but suspect they are pretty rare.

Still got room in that bag for the one iron?!

[ColinKelvin]

3 minutes ago, Foozle said:

I am sure I have seen one but suspect they are pretty rare.

Still got room in that bag for the one iron?!

Thanks!  I will keep searching and maybe one will show up.

 

I may add a driving iron at some point; the three iron looks butter-knifey enough for now though!

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

It's been a while since new content appeared here.

There is a new name on the block. Very nice set of irons with a timeless classic pure blade pattern and interesting more modern influences.

The sole is thin, as thin as my 1966 Flatback MacGregor Tourneys but they have redeeming features. Gone is the razor sharp leading edge which is replaced with a nice roll and the trailing edge is also softened. There is the tiniest amount of offset, the leading edge on these lines up with the centre line of the shaft.

And being made in Stainless has wet climate advantages, no rust, no peeling chrome and they polish up beautifully. I'm not selling my set but there are a couple to be found in the usual places, ask if you're interested.

 

They are made by Taika Golf in Scotland. Taika were in existence from Sept 1989 to Dec. 1992, so a very short lived business. Taika means 'Magic' in the Finnish language and that's about as much as anyone knows. For anyone wishing to build an exclusively European set for classic play these would be great candidates. They even come with a great signature, that of 4 time Ryder Cupper Jose Maria Canizares. I see his hand in the design here.

Edited March 12 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[Jiggered]

23 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

It's been a while since new content appeared here.

There is a new name on the block. Very nice set of irons with a timeless classic pure blade pattern and interesting more modern influences.

The sole is thin, as thin as my 1966 Flatback MacGregor Tourneys but they have redeeming features. Gone is the razor sharp leading edge which is replaced with a nice roll and the trailing edge is also softened. There is the tiniest amount of offset, the leading edge on these lines up with the centre line of the shaft.

And being made in Stainless has wet climate advantages, no rust, no peeling chrome and they polish up beautifully. I'm not selling my set but there are a couple to be found in the usual places, ask if you're interested.

 

 

They are made by Taika Golf in Scotland. Taika were in existence from Sept 1989 to Dec. 1992, so a very short lived business. Taika means 'Magic' in the Finnish language and that's about as much as anyone knows. For anyone wishing to build an exclusively European set for classic play these would be great candidates. They even come with a great signature, that of 4 time Ryder Cupper Jose Maria Canizares. I see his hand in the design here.

 

Where did you find the dates, Companies House or some such?

 

I'd love to compare these alongside the Petron Tour Custom, they're so similar.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

4 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

Where did you find the dates, Companies House or some such?

 

I'd love to compare these alongside the Petron Tour Custom, they're so similar.

Yes, Companies House. Only those dates are available, no other records of private businesses are retained after 20 years.. I can do a comparison photo with the Petron Tour Custom 1 iron which I kept from my old set. They do look similar but with significant differences. The heads may have been sourced from the same place. Ron Goodchild (of Petron) came from Baron Golf of East Kilbride, but no more. I couldn't find out anything about them either.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

 

22 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

Where did you find the dates, Companies House or some such?

 

I'd love to compare these alongside the Petron Tour Custom, they're so similar.

Sorry about the quality of the photos but there's enough to show profile differences. I think it shows that the Taika is a bit more refined and it shows what can be done with an uncompromisingly pure blade.

 

The photo of the sole shows a rolled leading edge on the Taika + softened trailing edge, nothing to speak of on the Petron.

 

The photo of the face shows the wee bit of offset on the Taika and none on the Petron.

 

The hosel lengths are identical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

On 3/14/2025 at 3:44 PM, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

 

Sorry about the quality of the photos but there's enough to show profile differences. I think it shows that the Taika is a bit more refined and it shows what can be done with an uncompromisingly pure blade.

 

The photo of the sole shows a rolled leading edge on the Taika + softened trailing edge, nothing to speak of on the Petron.

 

The photo of the face shows the wee bit of offset on the Taika and none on the Petron.

 

The hosel lengths are identical.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The latest info I have comes from Iain Forrester and his contacts. 'Taika didn't actually make these clubs, they sold them. They were made by Maxfli'

This is intriguing. I wonder if our old friends the Alston Foundry, latterly Bond Precision Castings, had anything to do with them.

It has all the hallmarks. Were BPC still making club heads in 1989-1992.....probably? 

Jiggered may have more reliable info.

Edited March 27 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[Jiggered]

Apart from a very small number of special commissions, Precision Products stopped golf club casting circa 1982 so after the Taika were produced.

 

I had a quick look in similar Maxfli heads and found this one, which strangely has no mention of Dunlop thta I can see, apologies for the dodgy picture.  Who would have made these I don't know, no date known either.

 

 

 

 

[Jiggered]

A club that's been on my wanted list for a while to complete a set is a coated shaft Gradidge, Bobby Locke Triple Crown 4 iron, complete with pink cord grip, not an easy club to find!

 

Anyway, I was having a sort out and tidy of the clubs in the garage and lo and behold, I found the missing 4 iron, even with the same serial number, I must have had it all along!

 

As you can see from the pictures, I don't have a 9 iron but I'm 99% certain that there wasn't one in the set as I've never seen one for sale. The 8 iron has a loft of 46° and the Wedgemaster 52°

 

The Wedgemaster is a slightly later club with a Rocket shaft as opposed to the Dynamic in all the others, it also has a slightly different grip.

 

I also found a set of woods, not in quite such good condition and they're a ladies set but I might give them a try to see how they play and if good I'll restore them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

6 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

A club that's been on my wanted list for a while to complete a set is a coated shaft Gradidge, Bobby Locke Triple Crown 4 iron, complete with pink cord grip, not an easy club to find!

 

Anyway, I was having a sort out and tidy of the clubs in the garage and lo and behold, I found the missing 4 iron, even with the same serial number, I must have had it all along!

 

As you can see from the pictures, I don't have a 9 iron but I'm 99% certain that there wasn't one in the set as I've never seen one for sale. The 8 iron has a loft of 46° and the Wedgemaster 52°

 

The Wedgemaster is a slightly later club with a Rocket shaft as opposed to the Dynamic in all the others, it also has a slightly different grip.

 

I also found a set of woods, not in quite such good condition and they're a ladies set but I might give them a try to see how they play and if good I'll restore them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stunning set ! Love the grips.

[scruffynick]

On 1/21/2025 at 5:10 PM, ColinKelvin said:

Still building this bag - added the forged irons to the woods I got earlier.

 

My question now is - does anyone know if John Letters ever released a European Tour branded bag??

 

 

My dad had those....stunning irons

[AlistairScott]

Back in the 80s Ryder Golf Co were based on Hillington industrial estate Glasgow. Not long before the business folded they had an important visitor due and approached my company FX Signs also based in Hillington as a letter was missing from their name sign above the factory. Money was tight and in lieu of payment I was gifted 3 brand new metal woods. Lovely clubs of their time but unfortunately they'd omitted to glue the heads on resulting in them flying off the first time they were hit! Apologies were made and after the clubs were glued they stayed in my bag for some time. 

[Foozle]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:13 PM, Foozle said:

seem to have formed a collection of Benny putters!

My Benny collection has grown further, this is the latest addition;

I think I need help! Not the number of Benny putters - that is quite normal surely? No, because this one putts beautifully! 

I have hung onto the sides of the Hickory Rabbit Hole for sometime now, determined not to slip and fall in. I fear the rabbit hole is now a sink hole with a gravitational pull well beyond my resistance!

I have tried all the Benny putters but never really fallen in love but this one is sweet! Sits just right, long blade makes it easy to line up and feels incredibly soft! On the long putts you can feel the "kick" of the shaft, just wonderful!

The shaft had a crack just above the hosel. The previous owner "repaired" it with Gorilla glue! I dressed that down as best I could and added the whipping to reinforce the crack.

We have a 12 hole practice green, holes probably average 30' a part. Quite heavily contoured, not the Himalayas but closer to that than a billiard table. I play a par 48 round of 12 holes clockwise then 12 anti clockwise. I have just gone round in -2. I NEVER get round under par!

Fascinating to see how hickory shafts work, this one quite different from the others. 

I can now understand an eternal search to build a hickory set that works for you! I now think any resistance on my part to begin that search is futile!

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

On 7/19/2025 at 3:11 PM, Foozle said:

My Benny collection has grown further, this is the latest addition;

I think I need help! Not the number of Benny putters - that is quite normal surely? No, because this one putts beautifully! 

I have hung onto the sides of the Hickory Rabbit Hole for sometime now, determined not to slip and fall in. I fear the rabbit hole is now a sink hole with a gravitational pull well beyond my resistance!

I have tried all the Benny putters but never really fallen in love but this one is sweet! Sits just right, long blade makes it easy to line up and feels incredibly soft! On the long putts you can feel the "kick" of the shaft, just wonderful!

The shaft had a crack just above the hosel. The previous owner "repaired" it with Gorilla glue! I dressed that down as best I could and added the whipping to reinforce the crack.

We have a 12 hole practice green, holes probably average 30' a part. Quite heavily contoured, not the Himalayas but closer to that than a billiard table. I play a par 48 round of 12 holes clockwise then 12 anti clockwise. I have just gone round in -2. I NEVER get round under par!

Fascinating to see how hickory shafts work, this one quite different from the others. 

I can now understand an eternal search to build a hickory set that works for you! I now think any resistance on my part to begin that search is futile!

A Benny 'Giraffe', I've not seen one before.....thanks.

And it's a very friendly rabbit-hole.

[WoodenHead]

John Letters: In the summer of 1972, I bought a set of used John Letters Powermaster irons- #2-10 + Sand Iron from a professional who had played the Sunshine Tour in South Africa and had returned to the States. They were a great set of muscle-back forged stainless steel heads with stiff steel shafts w/ a unique stepped taper.

Then in 1973, I bought a new set of John Letters Master Model MK iv irons w/ Gary Player signature in #2-10 + Sand Iron with Dynalite stiff shafts. This set was much like "the 985" model from MacGregor which has been discussed by others in this thread. The John Letters irons were better!

I really enjoyed playing with both sets, and I wish I had never let them go! There is nothing like the feel of forged stainless club heads.

Does anyone know of any companies that still make forged stainless irons?

[bcstones]

47 minutes ago, WoodenHead said:

Does anyone know of any companies that still make forged stainless irons?

this is a vintage sub-forum, so "still make" doesn quite fit the bill, imo.

Think that Hogan has a number of pre-1970 sets that were forged stainless steel. Seems MacGregor had a Tommy Amour SS head in the late 1940s & others in the'50s.

Hillerick & Bradsby had numberous forged SS PowerBilt & retail clubs in the vintage eras
Browning 440s were cast SS and so were other manufacturers

Do you have access to Maltby's Guide (preferably the IV edition 1950-1998) or Kaplan's books on catalogs of MacGregor, H&B, & Wilson....all keeping in the mindset of 'vintage'

Edited July 22 by bcstones

[Golfcat]

I have had this sitting around forever…any thoughts around this one?  I know the Push Iron is a specialized shot for downwind…but not much else.

[bcstones]

@WoodenHead I came across a 1930's MacGregor Bap irons, don't know if they are forged or cast but thinking of the age, perhaps forged.
for some reason I like the '70s cast SS - Hogan Producer, H&B PowerBilt Thoroughbred, Foxbat, & MacGregor VIP by Nicklaus (but not expecially the '77 - '84 Spalding Executive).

 

Just a thought or two