UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[Jiggered]

Just took delivery of these Slazenger Bobby Locke irons, they’re in much better condition than the advert indicated.

 

I think these are late 1950s or early 1960s as the four stars most likely represent Locke’s four Open wins, the last if which was in 1957.

The soles are stamped with a + which I assume means strong as they’re 4 degrees stronger than I’d expect for this period (apart from the sand iron which is the usual 56 degrees), 28 degree 5 iron, 36 degree 7 iron, etc.

 

 

 

Shaft bands are in good shape and the ferrule numbers all match, there’s even a ferrule number on the SW which is unusual, I’m guessing D2 might be the swing weight.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Jiggered

[TheDeanAbides]

22 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

Just took delivery of these Slazenger Bobby Locke irons, they’re in much better condition than the advert indicated.

 

I think these are late 1950s or early 1960s as the four stars most likely represent Locke’s four Open wins, the last if which was in 1957.

The soles are stamped with a + which I assume means strong as they’re 4 degrees stronger than I’d expect for this period (apart from the sand iron which is the usual 56 degrees), 28 degree 5 iron, 36 degree 7 iron, etc.

 

 

 

Shaft bands are in good shape and the ferrule numbers all match, there’s even a ferrule number on the SW which is unusual, I’m guessing D2 might be the swing weight.

 

 

 

 

Those are really lovely. What are the faces like?

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Those are really lovely. What are the faces like?

 

Faces are good, here's the sand iron.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

5 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

Faces are good, here's the sand iron.

 

Excellent. All of my Slazengers have been pretty poor. I'm slowly reviving them, but it's slow going. 

[Jiggered]

32 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Excellent. All of my Slazengers have been pretty poor. I'm slowly reviving them, but it's slow going. 

 

The stainless that was used at the time is a lot softer than that later used by Ping, this is good in some ways but well used clubs do tend to have their grooves beaten out of them!

 

I'm not bothered by worn grooves to be honest, I'm playing for fun and if sometimes my ball doesn't screw back 20 yards there's always the next time.  😉

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

The stainless that was used at the time is a lot softer than that later used by Ping, this is good in some ways but well used clubs do tend to have their grooves beaten out of them!

 

I'm not bothered by worn grooves to be honest, I'm playing for fun and if sometimes my ball doesn't screw back 20 yards there's always the next time.  😉

Yes, they feel more or less as soft as any other forging I've used. It's less about the ball zipping back and more about flyers than anything else. 

[Foozle]

27 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

The stainless that was used at the time is a lot softer than that later used by Ping, this is good in some ways but well used clubs do tend to have their grooves beaten out of them!

 

I'm not bothered by worn grooves to be honest, I'm playing for fun and if sometimes my ball doesn't screw back 20 yards there's always the next time.  😉

I struggle with backspin but am remarkably consistent in applying topspin. Seem to be able to do it with any club! 😁

[Foozle]

On 12/1/2020 at 4:07 PM, Jiggered said:

Just took delivery of these Slazenger Bobby Locke irons, they’re in much better condition than the advert indicated.

 

I think these are late 1950s or early 1960s as the four stars most likely represent Locke’s four Open wins, the last if which was in 1957.

The soles are stamped with a + which I assume means strong as they’re 4 degrees stronger than I’d expect for this period (apart from the sand iron which is the usual 56 degrees), 28 degree 5 iron, 36 degree 7 iron, etc.

 

 

 

Shaft bands are in good shape and the ferrule numbers all match, there’s even a ferrule number on the SW which is unusual, I’m guessing D2 might be the swing weight.

 

 

 

 

Jiggered, there is an excellent and very informative article about post war UK manufacturers in the Sept issue of "Through the Green". Beautifully researched, illustrated and written. Clearly a very learned and knowledgeable author. Perhaps you are already familiar with it? 😁

Of the sets illustrated I am pleased to tick off, pre war Gradidge, Fred Daly Master Model, Dunlop Peter Thomson and Ben Sayers Mentor.

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, Foozle said:

Jiggered, there is an excellent and very informative article about post war UK manufacturers in the Sept issue of "Through the Green". Beautifully researched, illustrated and written. Clearly a very learned and knowledgeable author. Perhaps you are already familiar with it? 😁

Of the sets illustrated I am pleased to tick off, pre war Gradidge, Fred Daly Master Model, Dunlop Peter Thomson and Ben Sayers Mentor.

 

You're too kind, glad you enjoyed it. 🙂

[Foozle]

2 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

You're too kind, glad you enjoyed it. 🙂

A pleasure. Great article. I thought I recognised the handwriting! 🙂

Missed my tick for Slazenger Ben Hogan Precision - very remiss of me!

[TheDeanAbides]

Just took my John Letters Masters up the range for a first real workout and I'm way more impressed than I thought I would be. I couldn't find a feel with them hitting little wedges, but I hit them great. The feel and solidity was excellent and they let me know when I didn't middle it. Loved them. 

 

EDIT: Also, isn't there something deeply satisfying walking along the range with a bag like this and noticing the interested faces? Probably wondering wtf anyone is doing hitting this old c£$p! Even better when you're hitting it great. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by TheDeanAbides

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Just looking over the last couple of pages in this thread, and there are some stunning looking irons😍 Those John Letters Master Models look tasty, though the reverse muscle looks challenging to play.

[TheDeanAbides]

26 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Just looking over the last couple of pages in this thread, and there are some stunning looking irons😍 Those John Letters Master Models look tasty, though the reverse muscle looks challenging to play.

They're actually pretty easy to get up in the air. The flight isn't as high as with my 99 Apex musclebacks, but they seem very playable. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

24 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

They're actually pretty easy to get up in the air. The flight isn't as high as with my 99 Apex musclebacks, but they seem very playable. 

 

I thought they seemed like an ideal design for links golf. 

Unfortunately, I don't see much UK stuff over here, except for Dunlop (though strictly speaking I think most of what I see for sale here was put out by Dunlop Japan. Not sure. The takeover of Dunlop seems to be worthy of a saga). Some slazenger stuff, but not much. I have what I think is a Hogan-Slazenger driver somewhere; no Hogan markings, but it has a speed slot. Lots of US stuff, but almost nothing from the Classic UK period (do the QE2 irons count? A set of those occasionally pops up for auction).

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I thought they seemed like an ideal design for links golf. 

Unfortunately, I don't see much UK stuff over here, except for Dunlop (though strictly speaking I think most of what I see for sale here was put out by Dunlop Japan. Not sure. The takeover of Dunlop seems to be worthy of a saga). Some slazenger stuff, but not much. I have what I think is a Hogan-Slazenger driver somewhere; no Hogan markings, but it has a speed slot. Lots of US stuff, but almost nothing from the Classic UK period (do the QE2 irons count? A set of those occasionally pops up for auction).

They were probably designed with that in mind? 

 

Most of the Hogan stuff over here are the Slazenger versions - it's really hard to pick up older Hogans. 

 

I don't know about QE2 irons? What are they?

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I thought they seemed like an ideal design for links golf. 

Unfortunately, I don't see much UK stuff over here, except for Dunlop (though strictly speaking I think most of what I see for sale here was put out by Dunlop Japan. Not sure. The takeover of Dunlop seems to be worthy of a saga). Some slazenger stuff, but not much. I have what I think is a Hogan-Slazenger driver somewhere; no Hogan markings, but it has a speed slot. Lots of US stuff, but almost nothing from the Classic UK period (do the QE2 irons count? A set of those occasionally pops up for auction).

 

The Swilken Q2 are a pretty regular feature of ebay UK.

Sets sold well in the far east but from accounts I've read they were not a good iron to play with.

 

I did once read who designed them but from just looking at them they don't inspire confidence. 

 

In any event, they're not blades!

 

Edit: "Ian Bunch MD of Swilken was our chief designer and spent hundreds of hours coming up with designs. Initially some incorporated a propeller design in the back of the head and finally we agreed on the final design that had the curvature of the shape of a propeller blade.

The final design was submitted to Cunard for their approval and at the time we wanted to call them the QE2 Clubs but we were informed that would not be possible. That at the time was a major blow but we came up with the name Q2 and the relevant logo."

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jiggered
Update

[TheDeanAbides]

35 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

The Swilken Q2 are a pretty regular feature of ebay UK.

Sets sold well in the far east but from accounts I've read they were not a good iron to play with.

 

I did once read who designed them but from just looking at them they don't inspire confidence. 

 

In any event, they're not blades!

 

Edit: "Ian Bunch MD of Swilken was our chief designer and spent hundreds of hours coming up with designs. Initially some incorporated a propeller design in the back of the head and finally we agreed on the final design that had the curvature of the shape of a propeller blade.

The final design was submitted to Cunard for their approval and at the time we wanted to call them the QE2 Clubs but we were informed that would not be possible. That at the time was a major blow but we came up with the name Q2 and the relevant logo."

 

 

They look a lot like the Karsten II. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

6 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

They were probably designed with that in mind? 

 

Most of the Hogan stuff over here are the Slazenger versions - it's really hard to pick up older Hogans. 

 

I don't know about QE2 irons? What are they?

 

@Jiggered's already posted, but they were a limited set cast from the propeller blades of the QE2 after she went a major overhaul at the end of the Eighties and had her original ones replaces. I think there were 2,000 sets made, and they included a putter and probably woods, though I can't remember off-hand if they were metal woods, persimmon, or laminated.

I remember drooling over the adverts, but I have heard, like jiggered said, that they weren't that great to actually play with.

I've seen a few sets on sale here, usually unused, and always for far more than I'd want to pay.

 

 

[Jiggered]

There’s nothing like that feeling of excitement when a parcel of clubs arrives!

Except when it’s tempered with anxiety as the clubs have obviously been “packaged” by a non-golfer….  Fingers crossed that they’ve survived the journey.

 

 

 

So far, so good.

 

 

 

And they're out and appear to have survived unscathed!  2 to 8 iron plus number 9 putter.

These are an early set of coated steel shaft clubs by St Andrew Golf Co and appear to be a variation of the Oggmented club patented by Willie Ogg and produced in numbers by Wilson in America. The design has been called the forerunner of the game-improvement iron as it was one of the first to redistribute weight to assist strike, although as the primary weight movement is to the toe rather than perimeter weighting I wouldn't call them GI by any stretch of the imagination.

Wilson and St Andrew Golf Co had a relationship for around 30 years and the Wilson influence can be seen in several STAG clubs from the 1930s up to around 1960.

Thanks to @stixmanfor helping out with this information. 

 

 

Condition is pretty good for such an old set, shafts appear solid and the "Reminder" grips look to be original, right down to the stamped end plugs.

 

The shafts are unusual in two ways;

• Firstly there's no separate piece between the hosel taper and the shaft proper as is usually the case.
• Secondly the shafts are circular in cross section for the first 14 inches but then change to hexagonal, hopefully this can be seen in the picture below.

 

The only "fault" I've found so far is that the black band at the top of the hosel is missing on the 2 iron, but this does show how the coating thickens up as it tapers to the hosel.  This should be an easy repair in any event.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Jiggered

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Very cool @Jiggered

Are you going to try them out?

[Jiggered]

9 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Very cool @Jiggered

Are you going to try them out?

I will but not for a good few months, by which time the weather should have improved dramatically.

[TheDeanAbides]

Those are lovely, @Jiggered. Damn, now I have hickory gas!

[Jiggered]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Those are lovely, @Jiggered. Damn, now I have hickory gas!

 

Thanks Dean, they're not actually hickories but coated steel shafts from that ignored period of the late 1920s through to 1939.

 

(But hickories are well worth getting into!)

[TheDeanAbides]

5 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

Thanks Dean, they're not actually hickories but coated steel shafts from that ignored period of the late 1920s through to 1939.

 

(But hickories are well worth getting into!)

Oh, in that case I feel safe! They are lovely though. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Those shafts are fun, the top is like the split cane palakonas. Are you absolutely sure they are coated steel and not some fancy steel cored wood effort, there were a few exotics in those days. The lack of a hosel ferrule makes me wonder as well.

Edited December 16, 2020 by The Aspidistra in the Hall
typo.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Not the best photo but culled from Ebay today, Donaldson New Yorker set. Donaldson of Glasgow, last throw of the dice for a famous maker. Reknowned for the Rangefinder series, a must have for the hickory player

 

[Foozle]

2 hours ago, Jiggered said:

There’s nothing like that feeling of excitement when a parcel of clubs arrives!

Except when it’s tempered with anxiety as the clubs have obviously been “packaged” by a non-golfer….  Fingers crossed that they’ve survived the journey.

 

 

 

So far, so good.

 

 

 

And they're out and appear to have survived unscathed!  2 to 8 iron plus number 9 putter.

These are an early set of coated steel shaft clubs by St Andrew Golf Co and appear to be a variation of the Oggmented club patented by Willie Ogg and produced in numbers by Wilson in America. The design has been called the forerunner of the game-improvement iron as it was one of the first to redistribute weight to assist strike, although as the primary weight movement is to the toe rather than perimeter weighting I wouldn't call them GI by any stretch of the imagination.

Wilson and St Andrew Golf Co had a relationship for around 30 years and the Wilson influence can be seen in several STAG clubs from the 1930s up to around 1960.

Thanks to @stixmanfor helping out with this information. 

 

 

Condition is pretty good for such an old set, shafts appear solid and the "Reminder" grips look to be original, right down to the stamped end plugs.

 

The shafts are unusual in two ways;

• Firstly there's no separate piece between the hosel taper and the shaft proper as is usually the case.
• Secondly the shafts are circular in cross section for the first 14 inches but then change to hexagonal, hopefully this can be seen in the picture below.

 

The only "fault" I've found so far is that the black band at the top of the hosel is missing on the 2 iron, but this does show how the coating thickens up as it tapers to the hosel.  This should be an easy repair in any event.

 

Jiggered, Wilson Ogg Mented are about the last standing wish set in my collection - won't stop me picking up others opportunisticaly mind you! 😁

I only have one Ogg Mented and that in my very first ramshackle bag of sticks I started off with nearly 50 years ago - ouch!

I still have it as I continued to use it as......a jigger! This kept coming back everytime my short game let me down - which was and is often!

Relevance to your post is the weight ports in the toe seen clearly pictured here.

PXG eat your heart out! You are about 90 years late to the party!

Nice set by the way. Glad they survived transit. Enjoy! 🙂

[Jiggered]

That's a nice head, probably earlier than mine as it looks like a chromed steel version and has the Wilson flags, mine are rustless.

 

Are the weight ports original or might they have been a later customisation by a previous owner?

[Jiggered]

2 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Those shafts are fun, the top is like the split cane palakonas. Are you absolutely sure they are coated steel and not some fancy steel cored wood effort, there were a few exotics in those days. The lack of a hosel ferrule makes me wonder as well.

 

Just done the magnet test to be sure and they are steel.

 

If you look closely at the 2 iron picture with the missing band you can see the steel and the coating material.

The pin in the hosel is also visible.

 

It's not your standard shaft that's for sure!

 

[Foozle]

11 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

That's a nice head, probably earlier than mine as it looks like a chromed steel version and has the Wilson flags, mine are rustless.

 

Are the weight ports original or might they have been a later customisation by a previous owner?

Jiggered, they are entirely original per this extract from the 1933 Wilson catalogue.