UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

14 hours ago, Hickory4ever said:

 

I acquired a nice set of Henry Cotton irons and don’t know much about them. I know about Sir Henry just not sure about the clubs. This Canadian boy would appreciate any knowledge you may have on year and who manufactured them. They are regular shaft and I am getting them regripped. Thanks in advance.

There is quite a lot to be uncovered using the 'search' function on Golfwrx, look for "Henry Cotton". Stixman was the first entry. If you have the original leather grips, please do not replace them. They are top quality and many on here have restored them to effective and useful original with ease.

Edited February 26, 2023 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[Jiggered]

20 hours ago, Hickory4ever said:

 

I acquired a nice set of Henry Cotton irons and don’t know much about them. I know about Sir Henry just not sure about the clubs. This Canadian boy would appreciate any knowledge you may have on year and who manufactured them. They are regular shaft and I am getting them regripped. Thanks in advance.

 

I made a video about Henry Cotton and George Nicoll recently, the irons you have were released in 1961, NOT 1958 as erroneously stated in the video.

I'd like to correct the video but don't think it's possible without deleting it and uploading as a new video, so instead I've made a comment in the video description as a "next best" option.

 

 

[Jiggered]

Duplicate post by mistake.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Jiggered

[Jiggered]

Duplicate post by mistake.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Jiggered
Duplicate post

[Hickory4ever]

@Jiggered, thank you so much for the information. I watched both videos and you do a great job. The Henry Cotton irons came from the estate of a friend and I am going to play them in his memory. You don’t see many classic clubs from the UK here and the information is sparse. I am much more knowledgeable about the hickory clubs and am expanding my experience with some of the classics.

 

The clubs did not have the original grips and will need replacement. They will be played and are not destined for any wall, I have no interest in that. 
 

Again, thank you for your help. I look forward to watching more of your videos.

[Jiggered]

I recently picked up a couple of early John Letters putters.

 

The first is a dot face simply stamped "Putter" which I'm pretty sure dates to the 1930s.

 

The second is the same head size but a lined face and is the Projector model. It was made for the Professional Golfers Co-Operative Association, as shown by the small diamond with the PGCA initials. I'd guess that this is either late 1930s or mid to late 1940s.

 

Both have the Bridge cleek mark and both have a True Temper Pat No 285051 "Medium" coated steel shaft.

 

I've also seen a Projector 5 iron before, picture shown.

 

 

 

[Ray M56]

In conversation with Foozle, he felt it was worth me mentioning that I have an early 1930’s all leather bag that was with the Ogg-mented clubs I posted about earlier in this thread. It is  in a battered but repairable state, the leather is not torn, the stitching seems sound but the zips are shot to pieces. 
 

Knowing on how you guys like your authentic vintage kit, it would seem a huge shame if I have to scrap it. So it is available free (if collected, I’m in East Sussex). I would be prepared to post it at cost.  If interested please PM me for photos, I won’t clog up the thread with photos now.

[Jiggered]

I seem to be on a bit of a roll with John Letters clubs.

 

Went to look at some Leyland coated steel shaft irons today but the seller was asking too much for me, he had some other bits though and not wanting to come away empty handed I bought this John Letters hickory shafted mashie niblick. Unfortunately the shaft is only 33.5" long so it'll need some work If I'm to play it.

 

The company began as Letters Logan & Co in Glasgow in 1918.

They were renamed John Letters in 1923, I'd guess that this is a 1930s club.

 

[Hickory4ever]

Just a follow up to my post on acquiring Henry Cotton irons. I had them regripped and took them out to our simulator game today as we have a foot of snow on the ground. They are very good players and look forward to playing them on real grass.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

8 hours ago, Hickory4ever said:

Just a follow up to my post on acquiring Henry Cotton irons. I had them regripped and took them out to our simulator game today as we have a foot of snow on the ground. They are very good players and look forward to playing them on real grass.

 

8 hours ago, Hickory4ever said:

Just a follow up to my post on acquiring Henry Cotton irons. I had them regripped and took them out to our simulator game today as we have a foot of snow on the ground. They are very good players and look forward to playing them on real grass.

Henry must have rated them. There were a series of golf books, compendium bed side style books, one I think was called This World of Golf. He very rarely mentioned George Nicoll anywhere, but on the dust cover of this book he is pictured very smartly dressed in a lemon coloured cashmere and leaning on his bag of clubs....your clubs in fact.

[Foozle]

Huge thanks to Ray for saving these from the tip and then allowing me to become their custodian. Yes, these lovely Ogg-mented irons are back in Scotland!

I am delighted with them including the reminder grips which are different to other reminder grips I have come across. Normally the flat or ridge identifies the centre line. On these it sits at 45* and so accommodates the bulge of your left thumb pad to set your hands in position.

This set has significance for me. As mentioned previously, I still have the 2 iron of these from the very first assortment of clubs that got me started on my golfing journey almost 50 years ago.

It is a sole survivor but as I began collecting I became interested in the Ogg-mented irons and the "technology" they represent - some 80 years before others "invented" weight ports. I have been looking for a set for sometime to fill one of the few remaining gaps in my collection.

I don't suppose collections are ever complete but having done a recent audit - and scared myself! - I must now determine to off load more (much more!) than I buy.

Ogg-mented irons therefore book end my collecting both starting and adding the full stop at the end some 50 years apart. Mrs Foozle will be pleased! 

[Ray M56]

Thanks Foozle, you are welcome, and thanks for the info on the Fred Daly Masters Model charity shop find. No takers for that yet, but not as historic as the Ogg-mented. 
 

This thread has inspired me to look out for and identify vintage clubs and “rescue” them where appropriate. I daren’t start a collection though 😃

[Jiggered]

6 hours ago, Foozle said:

Huge thanks to Ray for saving these from the tip and then allowing me to become their custodian. Yes, these lovely Ogg-mented irons are back in Scotland!

I am delighted with them including the reminder grips which are different to other reminder grips I have come across. Normally the flat or ridge identifies the centre line. On these it sits at 45* and so accommodates the bulge of your left thumb pad to set your hands in position.

This set has significance for me. As mentioned previously, I still have the 2 iron of these from the very first assortment of clubs that got me started on my golfing journey almost 50 years ago.

It is a sole survivor but as I began collecting I became interested in the Ogg-mented irons and the "technology" they represent - some 80 years before others "invented" weight ports. I have been looking for a set for sometime to fill one of the few remaining gaps in my collection.

I don't suppose collections are ever complete but having done a recent audit - and scared myself! - I must now determine to off load more (much more!) than I buy.

Ogg-mented irons therefore book end my collecting both starting and adding the full stop at the end some 50 years apart. Mrs Foozle will be pleased! 

 

I'd noticed that these were no longer for sale and am so pleased that you've got them, and I have to admit a little jealous! 😁 They've found a home where they'll be appreciated for sure.

 

The reminder grips sound similar to the ones I have. A poor quality picture is attached below, on the left is one of the STAG "OW Model irons, the reminder is probably 20° from the vertical, and on the right is a Densmore Shute "Toe Weighted, Double Balanced" iron, the reminder at least 45° from the vertical.

 

[Foozle]

13 hours ago, Ray M56 said:

Thanks Foozle, you are welcome, and thanks for the info on the Fred Daly Masters Model charity shop find. No takers for that yet, but not as historic as the Ogg-mented. 
 

This thread has inspired me to look out for and identify vintage clubs and “rescue” them where appropriate. I daren’t start a collection though 😃

Thanks again Ray. I am sure you will find a buyer for the Fred Daly's - another great find and save by you.

Collecting is a very slippery slope as many on here will testify! I knew things were getting somewhat out of proportion but still scared myself when I dared to tally up the clubs I now own! Embarrassment prevents me from divulging details but suffice to say, too many to reasonably enjoy in the sense of actually playing with them which has always been my main enjoyment and fascination. I do now need to begin that painful task of deciding what to keep and, regrettably, what needs to go. The Ogg-mented irons and the Fred Daly's I gave you details of are definite keepers - decisions ftom there get much harder....

[Foozle]

10 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

I'd noticed that these were no longer for sale and am so pleased that you've got them, and I have to admit a little jealous! 😁 They've found a home where they'll be appreciated for sure.

 

The reminder grips sound similar to the ones I have. A poor quality picture is attached below, on the left is one of the STAG "OW Model irons, the reminder is probably 20° from the vertical, and on the right is a Densmore Shute "Toe Weighted, Double Balanced" iron, the reminder at least 45° from the vertical.

 

The Ogg-mented irons are closer to your Densmore Chute irons as this picture hopefully shows.

The fact that the embossed lettering is still eligible is testimony to the state of preservation of these clubs. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Today I put into play for the first time a custom made driver made by one of the many fine usung craftsman clubmakers in the UK. I doubt anyone recalls John 'Bud' Edmondson these days but he had a small but thriving business near Cambridge. I was heavily into hickory in those days and when Bud retired I bought a lot of his equipment and he threw in some unfinished heads.

Eventually after my direction of travel changed I found the head in the photo, loosely fitted a shaft and decided it looked good on me. I took that process a step further, found an unused donor Brunswick shaft from my local 'Re-use' centre and fitted it.

Note the dimensions stamped on the clubhead. You have loft, lie, face angle and intended swing weight (which I raised to D2).

I took it out today for the first time on the course, not on the range. My instincts were right , it fitted me just fine and went as well as anything I've hit.

Here's to you, Bud !

[Jiggered]

6 hours ago, Foozle said:

The Ogg-mented irons are closer to your Densmore Chute irons as this picture hopefully shows.

The fact that the embossed lettering is still eligible is testimony to the state of preservation of these clubs. 

 

Nice!

I've not seen a full stamp like that in the leather before.

[Jiggered]

Still on the Ogg-Mented theme, I don't very often buy single irons but couldn't resist this 1930s John Letters 3 iron, clearly straight out of the Ogg-Mented family.

And what a great name, "The Mamba" complete with graphic.

 

Dot face, coated True-Temper shaft.

 

 

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

I enjoyed watching Jiggered’s YouTube video about the Swilken Golf Co. in St. Andrews. It reminded me of a visit to the company factory in 1989 of which I have some photos. But first some photos from 1975 that I found on the internet.

 

Photo of clubmaker weighing completed golf clubs at the Swilken Golf Company in St Andrews Fife in May 1975.

 

Photo of Ian Bunch managing director of the Swilken Golf Company in St Andrews Fife in May 1975.

 

Photo of men smoothing the heads of hand-made golf clubs at the Swilken Golf Company in St Andrews Fife in May 1975.

 

Photo of clubmaker checking hand-made golf clubs at the Swilken Golf Company in St Andrews Fife in May 1975.

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

My visit to the Swilken Golf Co. factory in St. Andrews, 28 April 1989

The visit took place during the R&A’s International Golf Conference in St. Andrews 26-28 April 1989.

 

Photo of Jesper looking at rack of clubheads for the Q2 Limited Edition set of clubs.

 

Photo of clubmaker working on clubheads.

 

Photo of clubmakers sanding iron heads.

 

Photo of clubmaker weighing iron. Apparently the same weight that was used in 1975, re. the picture above.

 

Photo of Jesper with Swilken’s managing director Mr. Ian Bunch who was MD since before 1975 and until the company closed down due to bankruptcy in 1995. Mr. Bunch later became Secretary of Prestwick Golf Club.

 

Photo of clubmaker working on iron from the Q2 Limited Edition set of clubs made from the propeller of the ocean liner Queen Elisabeth II.

 

Photo of clubmaker with persimmon club head.

 

Photo of clubmaker with mould for clubhead and persimmon block.

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Jesper Frigast Larsen

[Jiggered]

Many thanks for posting those pictures @Jesper Frigast Larsen, very interesting.

 

The last of the 1975 pictures looks as though the guy is assembling a hickory shafted putter, which is quite possible as these were quite popular.

 

It's surprising how so little seems to have changed between the 1975 pictures and those from your visit in 1989, but that's probably why the business failed as this was a time when manufacture was moving into mass-production and small hand-crafted companies were doomed.

 

I often wonder whether the Q2 club project had a beneficial or a detrimental effect on the company as a whole? No doubt it brought in much needed money but was it a distraction from the core business?  It probably didn't matter at the end of the day though as Swilken would almost certainly have gone the way of all UK golf club manufacturers in the face of mass-produced competition.

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

Thank you @Jiggered, yes I am sure you are right that (although golf was booming with beginners in need of equipment in many countries in the 1990's and 2000's) a company like Swilken would have stood no chance in a market dominated by cheap mass-produced imports from the Far East. A shame, but that is the way it goes. I have to say, though, that I enjoy my set of Swilken cavity sole irons (pictured) which I play regularly. They look good and perform well.

 

By the way, during the same visit to St. Andrews in 1989 I also visited the J.B. Halley factory (no photos unfortunately). Same hand-crafted production, same friendly staff - and, like Swilken, factory closure a few years later. 

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

Thinking of Swilken, I suddenly remember that in the late 1980's, Ian Bunch, the MD of Swilken, invented a golf rain glove that was guaranteed non-slippery in rainy conditions. It was marketed under the Swilken brand. He gave me one during my visit, and I tried it. It felt quite like a glove designed for dishwashing, non-breathable, but (I have to admit) quite effective when playing in the rain. Surely more effective than today's Footjoy so-called "rain gloves". But I guess it was not a great success in terms of sales...

[DavidUK]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:51 PM, Jiggered said:

A parcel arrived today, another one of those that gives you concerns for the contents...

 

 

First layer off and not looking too bad.

 

 

The contents are some clubs that I'd been watching on ebay listed for £10, but then they disappeared without being sold and I was afraid that they might have been dumped.

Messaged the seller and he still had them and the deal was done, £17.50 delivered.

 

it was the two STAG Sweepstakes 2 & 4 woods that I wanted as the sole plates are quite unusual. There were a couple of other woods with similar but not quite as nice sole plates by Colossus who I've not heard of before.

Anyone any information on Colossus? 

 

 

 

 

Nice end caps.

 

 

Finally in the bundle were a few coated shaft, dot faced irons.

 

The Flywheel I've always associated with Cann & Taylor but this one also has a BV logo, anyone any ideas?

The putter with these has a huge head!

 

 

The other irons are a make I've not come across before but I like them, shame there only four clubs!  Anybody heard of Glenfarg before? The sole is plain with just the club number.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi all. Just joined here as I have some clubs to dispose of which my late father left to me and I'm not sure where/how to advertise them. I grew up in London and played with him at Horsenden Hill and Northwood Hills, then later at Woburn and St.Enodoc where he was a member of both.

I play a little and so have kept his last set of Callaway clubs. 

 

To go, there's a set of Glenfarg irons, for which a Google search brought me to the post by @Jiggered above...

 

 

...the "RUSTLESS" stamp made me chuckle. Could it just be red clay stuck in the lettering perhaps?

 

A Spalding Diplomat 9 iron...

 

 

A Dai Rees New/Yew/Kew/Mew Master (for cats?)...

 

 

Slazenger Bobby Locke 1, 2, & 4 (not shown) woods...

 

 

 

A John Letters putter...

 

 

Dunlop Peter Thomson 5 wood...

 

 

And what looks like an ancient wooden shaft putter with no markings...

 

 

Would anyone care to advise the best route to sell them? I'm guessing it's going to be eBay, but I'm open to other suggestions. Also, by what route (post/ courier?) to send a club once sold?

 

Many thanks for your assistance with this.

 

🙂

[Jiggered]

Hi David,

An interesting story you have there.

 

I haven't found out any more regarding the Glenfarg irons, maybe they were made for a retail store or something?

The Spalding Diplomat is an American club and not my specialty.

The John Letters Dai Rees New Master is quite an old version, probably 1950s.

The Bobby Locke 262 woods are from around 1960.

I'd guess the John Letters putter to be 1960s or 1970s.

The Dunlop Peter Thomson wood looks like the Contour Sole model that came out in 1962.

The hickory shafted putter might be a Standard Mills model, it should say on the bottom.

 

ebay will be your best route to sell them but I wouldn't hold your breath with regards to making much money.

 

I was surprised to see that you're in Leicestershire, as am I!

I might be interested in buying the Glenfarg clubs and the Bobby Locke woods but I'd want to see them first, please message me if this would be okay.

[DavidUK]

Thanks for the info.

PM'd you.

[Jiggered]

Won these the other day and they were delivered yesterday, 2 to 9 irons.

 

I think that this is the second version of the John Letters Masters Model "Styled in Scotland" and previously I'd only ever seen it with Fred Daly's name, but here we have Arthur Lees, Pro for many years at Sunningdale.

 

There were only me and one other bidder and they sold for £3.71 + £9.99 postage, bizarre.

 

 

[bcstones]

4 hours ago, Jiggered said:

Won these the other day and they were delivered yesterday, 2 to 9 irons.

 

I think that this is the second version of the John Letters Masters Model "Styled in Scotland" and previously I'd only ever seen it with Fred Daly's name, but here we have Arthur Lees, Pro for many years at Sunningdale.

 

There were only me and one other bidder and they sold for £3.71 + £9.99 postage, bizarre.

 

 

WOW!!! Congratulations! Now when will they be featured on your site? 😇😂

[Jiggered]

2 hours ago, bcstones said:

WOW!!! Congratulations! Now when will they be featured on your site? 😇😂

 

 

I've already done the original Masters Models and the later Master Model Forged so it'll be a while yet I think. 🙂

 

But here's a teaser, I recently won a set of irons that don't come up very often and that I thought I'd never find in my price bracket, 2 to SW, and they will feature soon!

I'll post pictures here when I receive them. 😁

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

6 hours ago, Jiggered said:

Won these the other day and they were delivered yesterday, 2 to 9 irons.

 

I think that this is the second version of the John Letters Masters Model "Styled in Scotland" and previously I'd only ever seen it with Fred Daly's name, but here we have Arthur Lees, Pro for many years at Sunningdale.

 

There were only me and one other bidder and they sold for £3.71 + £9.99 postage, bizarre.

 

 

Very nice. Arthur Lees, Ryder Cup compatriate of Fred Daly.

'Styled in Scotland' = made in England at the Alston Foundry. I had a set of the Fred Daly's, they were welded to the shaft using the Delafit system.

Edited May 5, 2023 by The Aspidistra in the Hall