What happened to the European Tour?

[mosesgolf]

Professional organizations always go through peaks and valleys. They'll be just fine. Tough to argue with all the talent that's come out of Europe especially the large crop we have now.

[golfcarte]

simply, the elite european pros are chasing the big bucks. just like why bank robbers rob banks, they come to the pga tour, because, that's where the money is. its useful for guys like brooks koepka and peter uhlein to use as a stepping stone, but until money flows into the tour the likes of the pga tour, its top players will flow out of it.

[mosesgolf]

IMO playing the Euro tour makes you a better overall golfer. Not only do you soak in all the different cultures of each country but you get to play in various and likely more difficult conditions (weather and course conditions). Perhaps that's the reason why more and more of the successful players on the PGA Tour come from Europe. How cool it must have been for a young Brooks Koepka to travel all over Europe for a few years while developing his game. Peter Uhlein seems to be coming along just fine.

[golfcarte]

[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1429975584' post='11439515']
IMO playing the Euro tour makes you a better overall golfer. Not only do you soak in all the different cultures of each country but you get to play in various and likely more difficult conditions (weather and course conditions). Perhaps that's the reason why more and more of the successful players on the PGA Tour come from Europe. How cool it must have been for a young Brooks Koepka to travel all over Europe for a few years while developing his game. Peter Uhlein seems to be coming along just fine.
[/quote]

i dunno, i question both koepka's and uhlein's decision if they become fortunate enough to make a ryder cup team. will they be perceived negatively by the euros, or doesn't it matter? is it the same as the euros coming to the pga tour? i imagine, once you get to that level, they are all brothers under the skin, having to deal with the rest of the outside world.

[Bingo1976]

[quote name='golfcarte' timestamp='1429976393' post='11439583']
[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1429975584' post='11439515']
IMO playing the Euro tour makes you a better overall golfer. Not only do you soak in all the different cultures of each country but you get to play in various and likely more difficult conditions (weather and course conditions). Perhaps that's the reason why more and more of the successful players on the PGA Tour come from Europe. How cool it must have been for a young Brooks Koepka to travel all over Europe for a few years while developing his game. Peter Uhlein seems to be coming along just fine.
[/quote]

i dunno, i question both koepka's and uhlein's decision if they become fortunate enough to make a ryder cup team. will they be perceived negatively by the euros, or doesn't it matter? is it the same as the euros coming to the pga tour? i imagine, once you get to that level, they are all brothers under the skin, having to deal with the rest of the outside world.
[/quote]

I like Koepka and Uhlein, probably 2 of my favourites because of exactly the fact that they did go and play ET rather than the Web.com.

And we Euros certainly don't look down on the guys who move to America, it's only the Americans who seem to get excited by Poulters big Florida mansion etc - we know that the big bucks are on the U.S. Tour and that it would be sensible to move where taxes are lower, and work is closer.

[PGArox]

In light of this topic I though it might be interesting, and revealing, to take a look at how the European Tour stacks up against the PGA TOUR when it comes to the Strength Of Field rating as provided by the Official World Golf Ranking.

Here are the regular tournaments of each tour for 2015. Majors and World Golf Championships are not included, and (*) means the event was played opposite a WGC event.

PGA TOUR

Bay Hill Invitational
483
Honda Classic
466
Waste Management Phoenix Open
394
Northern Trust Open
393
Shell Houston Open
380
Valspar Championship
370
RBC Heritage
363
Farmers Insurance Open
356
Valero Texas Open
359
AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am
285
Sony Open in Hawaii
277
Humana Challenge
272
Hyundai Tournament of Champions
257
Puerto Rico Open*
19


EUROPEAN TOUR

Omega Dubai Desert Classic
330
Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship
317
Commercial Bank Qatar Masters
233
Maybank Malaysian Open
196
True Thailand Classic
123
Shenzhen International
91
Trophee Hassan II
67
South African Open Championship
49
Tshwane Open
49
Africa Open*
42
Joburg Open
40
Hero Indian Open
40

[bunter101]

Why are you putting co-sanctioned tournaments down? They are Asian and Sunshine Tour competitions that aren't actually European Tour Events. The first three are the only true European Tour events out of the listed.

[Dave230]

Some results from the matchplay:

Ilonen beat Every
Jimenez beat Bradley
Jaidee beat Furyk
Warren beat Holmes
Luiten beat Na
Willett beat Reed
Sullivan beat Moore
Grace beat Jason Day
Grace beat Charley Hoffman
Lahiri beat Palmer
Lowry beat English
Molinari beat Scott

Some results from the 'weak' European Tour players this week.

[knock it close]

[quote name='Dave230' timestamp='1430576553' post='11485637']
Some results from the matchplay:

Ilonen beat Every
Jimenez beat Bradley
Jaidee beat Furyk
Warren beat Holmes
Luiten beat Na
Willett beat Reed
Sullivan beat Moore
Grace beat Jason Day
Grace beat Charley Hoffman
Lahiri beat Palmer
Lowry beat English
Molinari beat Scott

Some results from the 'weak' European Tour players this week.
[/quote]Yea and how many euro tour guys made it to the round of 16? 2 full timers?

[williamsnrb]

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1427647964' post='11239921']
I have the tournament on now and it's late in the round on Sunday and there are less spectators there than my local club championship. I mean there are like 7 fans there.
[/quote]

I know I'm late to the party, but I've noticed the same in regards to spectators at some of the European Tour events. Even in good weather, there sometimes doesn't seem to be many fans at the course.

[williamsnrb]

[quote name='mosesgolf' timestamp='1429975584' post='11439515']
IMO playing the Euro tour makes you a better overall golfer. Not only do you soak in all the different cultures of each country but you get to play in various and likely more difficult conditions (weather and course conditions). Perhaps that's the reason why more and more of the successful players on the PGA Tour come from Europe. How cool it must have been for a young Brooks Koepka to travel all over Europe for a few years while developing his game. Peter Uhlein seems to be coming along just fine.
[/quote]

Yea, this is a good point because European courses force a player to adapt to conditions and setups unlike many US courses.

[mrt99]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1430577087' post='11485685']
Yea and how many euro tour guys made it to the round of 16? 2 full timers?
[/quote]

By my quick count 3 of the 16 would be considered full time Euro Tour players, 9 full time PGA Tour players and 4 who play both (Rory, Schwartzel, Westwood and Oosthuizen).

[Dave230]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1430577087' post='11485685']
[quote name='Dave230' timestamp='1430576553' post='11485637']
Some results from the matchplay:

Ilonen beat Every
Jimenez beat Bradley
Jaidee beat Furyk
Warren beat Holmes
Luiten beat Na
Willett beat Reed
Sullivan beat Moore
Grace beat Jason Day
Grace beat Charley Hoffman
Lahiri beat Palmer
Lowry beat English
Molinari beat Scott

Some results from the 'weak' European Tour players this week.
[/quote]Yea and how many euro tour guys made it to the round of 16? 2 full timers?
[/quote]

Westwood, Schwartzel, Oosthuizen, McIlroy, Willett, Fleetwood, Grace all made it to the last 16 of the European Tour players. Can't remember if Casey dropped his card or not. Fowler close to picking up a card. Pretty much half European Tour players that you would expect to be playing the top European events.

Not that many full-timers made it but no-one would have expected any to make it. There were also a number of notable wins among the full-timers.

Just thought it was a pretty solid showing here on American soil showing that the European Tour has more depth than some people give it credit for.

[knock it close]

[quote name='mrt99' timestamp='1430578535' post='11485801']
[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1430577087' post='11485685']
Yea and how many euro tour guys made it to the round of 16? 2 full timers?
[/quote]

By my quick count 3 of the 16 would be considered full time Euro Tour players, 9 full time PGA Tour players and 4 who play both (Rory, Schwartzel, Westwood and Oosthuizen).
[/quote]Is grace euro? If so that's the one I missed. I got nothing against the euro tour, if I was good enough I think I'd definitely go the Brooks route it would be sweet.

[thecraw]

My tuppence worth. European Tour is much more fun to watch. US Tour is smash it hard and it becomes a pitch'n'putt competition week in week out. US courses seem to be wide open.

Great players play on both sides of the pond.

[QEight]

[quote name='williamsnrb' timestamp='1430577426' post='11485709']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1427647964' post='11239921']
I have the tournament on now and it's late in the round on Sunday and there are less spectators there than my local club championship. I mean there are like 7 fans there.
[/quote]

I know I'm late to the party, but I've noticed the same in regards to spectators at some of the European Tour events. Even in good weather, there sometimes doesn't seem to be many fans at the course.
[/quote]

I still do not understand the need for (many) spectators. When I watch it on telly, I watch the players not the sea of spectators. To me as a viewer the amount of spectators is not important.

If you talk economics of the tour then it is a different thing.

[Paul Stewart Jones]

[quote name='AP2 712' timestamp='1427647938' post='11239917']
[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1427646396' post='11239787']
[quote name='9400' timestamp='1427645489' post='11239711']
[quote name='AP2 712' timestamp='1427641624' post='11239445']
Has the web.com tour taken over as the 2nd best tour in the world week in and week out?
[/quote]

Looking at the OWGR it seems that the strength of field rating of European Tour events vs. Web.com Tour events are not particularly close. I don't think the numbers are going to back your assertion.
[/quote]

This week's European Tour event, the Trophee Hassan II, has a Strength of Field rating of 67, compared to the web.com TOUR's Chitimacha Louisiana Open, which has a rating of 5.

The highest ranked player in this week's web.com TOUR event is Australia's Greg Chalmers, at #178.
[/quote]

I'd take the top 5 in most web.com tour events against the fields that we've been seeing over the past few weeks on the European Tour hosted events. This would exclude Doral.
[/quote]

[Paul Stewart Jones]

I think some of you need to take your America rules the head out of the sand.

Can't believe some of the huge bollox I have read. How can the buy.com be bigger than the European tour you total morons.

Look at the quarter finals this week 6 are still members of the European tour?

How about the fields in the Middle East swing? love a PGA tour early season ... But will all be back on European for the big events, this is all down to world ranking points.

If the Masters was in June, wgc match play in October you wouldn't see half as many members of European tour members playing on the PGA tour. More world number ones have come from the European tour than the PGA tour.

Each tour has its place no doubt, but to say buy.com tour is stronger you...... You need to stop smoking crack and realise that there is a world away from America.

[thecraw]

Paul Stewart Jones, sometimes you just need to smile inwardly and think "sure son, your kinda special!"

European Tour is a brilliant Tour, It has bigger and better culture and a better variety of courses. Look at the Indian Open, the course was set up that tight that pro's were hitting irons off the tee. Imagine that was on the PGA Tour, tantrums would be happening everywhere and the course littered with dummies.

There is no doubt that the US is a bigger and stronger Tour with more money etc but its certainly not more entertaining in my view. However I appreciate that'sonly my opinion so I'll respect others. Even their belittling and menial comments.

[ilovenewtech]

When talking about Koepka and Uihlien they actually came to Europe to play on the Challenge Tour. I played there with them and you could see their games develop. However most importantly they were both a long way from their comfort zones and developed as people from the travelling - I think this has made them better golfers!

[rafal]

Golf isn't as popular around the world outside of US and UK. So the crowds and interest of the public is low and hence money isn't there.

All sports fans in Europe now think is Barcelona - Bayern final and most people in the USA don't even know what I am talking about nor care. That's how the world at large reacts to Augusta Masters.