Am I being reasonable?

[highergr0und]

So, I'm selling my house, and last night I signed a counter offer presented by an interested couple, thus creating a contract. Then, their realtor calls mine saying that he "forgot" to include a request for us to cover closing costs in the contract. He specifically mentioned us paying the title fees in both offers coming from them, which we agreed to, which is also part of closing costs.

 

So today, he submitted a new offer for the exact same sale price with $6k in closing costs instead of the title fees (about $4500 difference). It's not a counter since we've signed the contract, which means now we have two offers from the same people, for the same house, with a signed offer being better than the second on the table. I mean, WTF, right?

 

Now I told my realtor to tell the guy to either make the new offer so we yield the same amount of cash from the first offer, or we'll hold them to it and they can either pay the $2500 to break it or execute at the agreed upon price. No counter or anything since I don't want to somehow break contract #1. I also told her to tell the other realtor that he could cut his commission and refund us the difference at close if he didn't want to have to upset his clients.

 

So am I being unreasonable in any way?

[cdnglf]

No. Realtors make hefty commissions to not "forget" stuff like this.

[KLeC]

Totally agree.

[f22beaver]

Stand your ground. As you state, this is anything but your problem. If the buyers want the house they can work it out with their Realtor.

And he didn't "forget" anything. He remembered title fees but somehow forgot closing costs. Yeah, sure he did. He's full of it.

Edit because Swype doesn't actually know what I wanted.

[Lord Helmet]

Had a similar situation many moons ago. Ended up with everyone splitting the cost a bit. We took a bit less, our realtor did, other party did, and their realtor did. Worked out for us.

Details are fuzzy, but I remember initially thinking I wasnt budging, but when it came down to it, needed to move the property and wasnt going to let $500 or whatever it was block the deal.

[ESP]

It sounds like a negotiating tactic, but you should consider having an attorney look at the purchase agreement and review the facts to make sure your analysis is correct. If it is a standard agreement used by realtors similar to what I have seen in our market, then there is potential for ambiguity or inconsistencies in the agreement that could give the buyers an out that you haven't considered.

[tocino]

it's a sellers market right now (especially where I'm a from). If the buyer's realtor forgot something that's on him. Personally if it was me, I'd make him stick to the contract that was signed but if you really want the sale now then maybe a little negotiating on both sides may be in order.

[Barnacle]

If you aren't in a huge hurry to sell then don't budge.

[Spicoli]

Depends how bad you want to sell...and how much covering more costs erodes margins...

A bird in the hand...however

Personally, if the market is strong I would hold them to it...

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Lord Helmet' timestamp='1428504105' post='11310925']
Had a similar situation many moons ago. Ended up with everyone splitting the cost a bit. We took a bit less, our realtor did, other party did, and their realtor did. Worked out for us.

Details are fuzzy, but I remember initially thinking I wasnt budging, but when it came down to it, needed to move the property and wasnt going to let [b]$500 or whatever it was block the deal.[/b]
[/quote]

This is always important to remember too. In this case it sounds like more then that money-wise....but it's important to remember in home buying, that it's a very large purchase and 2000-4000$ when you are say, getting a good deal on a new property which you have a conditional offer on....or the housing market is great and you know your next property will be at a discount anyway...i mean sometimes the convenience of getting it done is important

I know a guy who lost 2 houses when he was in the market over a couple thousand bucks....i mean on a 20 year mortgage that's like 10$ a month or whatever

[Lord Helmet]

Yes, if it's worth it for OP, maybe the 2 realtors and 2 participants can come to a common ground on cost sharing the closing fees. Like you said, amortization over the life of a note, looking at $10/month.

[highergr0und]

So here's an update. Apparently, despite that the two parties entering the deal had signed the contract, the fact that the realtor had not signed before he noticed his "mistake" meant that the contract is not executed. I haven't investigated this from a legal standpoint, but I don't understand how someone with no real skin in the game has to sign a deal to make it official, especially when they're the one that presented it. I might have a negligence case against him if his mistake causes the deal to not go through. My wife has begged me not to call his boss or pursue any other action until after any deal is executed, so I'm biting my tongue.

Anyways, we've responded by raising the purchase price to give them some closing costs. We will not come out of pocket one more dollar for this deal. Just waiting on them to get back to us. Meanwhile, after a few days of rain we're starting to get some activity for showings for later in the week and are hoping to just get another offer to not have to deal with the BS. It would be sweet justice to be able to send him a fax of my middle finger as my final counter offer.

[_MS22_]

I'd contact the person in charge of the real estate company. They made the mistake and I would stand firm on netting the money I was initially promised. They make their 3%. If he "forgot" something and it costs him $3000-4000 of his $xxxxx then so be it. In reality he can kick it in, still make 2% and use it as a learning experience so as not to f*** up in the future. How can the person who screwed the whole deal up be the one still getting their full cut? I'd ask him to pay or walk away from dealing with their company.

[Daniel Noonan]

It should have been in the contract but sellers almost always pay the closing costs.

[apple_crumble]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1428457293' post='11307943']
So, I'm selling my house, and last night I signed a counter offer presented by an interested couple, thus creating a contract. Then, their realtor calls mine saying that he [u][b]"forgot"[/b][/u] to include a request for us to cover closing costs in the contract. He specifically mentioned us paying the title fees in both offers coming from them, which we agreed to, which is also part of closing costs.

So today, he submitted a new offer for the exact same sale price with $6k in closing costs instead of the title fees (about $4500 difference). It's not a counter since we've signed the contract, which means now we have two offers from the same people, for the same house, with a signed offer being better than the second on the table. I mean, WTF, right?

Now I told my realtor to tell the guy to either make the new offer so we yield the same amount of cash from the first offer, or we'll hold them to it and they can either pay the $2500 to break it or execute at the agreed upon price. No counter or anything since I don't want to somehow break contract #1. I also told her to tell the other realtor that he could cut his commission and refund us the difference at close if he didn't want to have to upset his clients.

So am I being unreasonable in any way?
[/quote]

Negligence
Misrepresentation
Breach of fiduciary duties
Contractual mistakes
Fraud (harder to prove)

Basically, merely forgetting is enough to have him in hot water and [u][b]he[/b][/u] should pay the difference.
Also, do you have a Realtor type Society in your state? If so, report him and they could potentially suspend his licence.

In fact, I dare say that if you ever go to court with this douchebag, that your Attorney should ask for punitive damages if you could prove that his negligence was done with ill intent. Punitive damages are a type of compensatory damage that punishes the wrong doer.
It would be great if you guys could settle this peacefully outside, punitive damages could destroy a realtor's career.

[highergr0und]

[quote name='LackOfFrigginTalent' timestamp='1428542751' post='11315781']It should have been in the contract but sellers almost always pay the closing costs.[/quote]

Not in a sellers market, or at least this one..... But I don't mind paying some costs as long as they're properly negotiated. We negotiated a price, signed, and then had them ask for more

[highergr0und]

[quote name='apple_crumble' timestamp='1428544023' post='11315927']

Negligence
Misrepresentation
Breach of fiduciary duties
Contractual mistakes
Fraud (harder to prove)

Basically, merely forgetting is enough to have him in hot water and [u][b]he[/b][/u] should pay the difference.
Also, do you have a Realtor type Society in your state? If so, report him and they could potentially suspend his licence.

In fact, I dare say that if you ever go to court with this douchebag, that your Attorney should ask for punitive damages if you could prove that his negligence was done with ill intent. Punitive damages are a type of compensatory damage that punishes the wrong doer.
It would be great if you guys could settle this peacefully outside, punitive damages could destroy a realtor's career.[/quote]

I'm really hoping the deal works out or we get another one so I don't have to sue him. I'm not out to ruin a life, but I won't suffer while he gets the full commission. If he were my realtor, he would have been fired on the spot.

[highergr0und]

Ok, here's a new one. My financial terms were accepted, but now they added a clause asking me to guarantee that the development behind my property will not get any closer to the fence than has already been excavated. Yep, they want me to promise that private property owned by a third party won't be changed. Lol. Please God, give me a new offer!!

[One_Putt_Blunder]

At this point I would pull the offer and find out where they really stand.

[highergr0und]

We're just going to remove that line and submit the same offer back to them. I've requested the plans for the development, but even if I get them I can't sign a guarantee. I've got two showings now for tomorrow and am hoping for more over the weekend.

[padget]

I think you move on, these guys seem like a nightmare waiting to happen even if you'll ever agree to terms. They already went loopy once, now twice, they are telling you they are trouble. Buying season is warming up with the weather, guessing you'll get another offer from a rational buyer soon.

[sigmapete1]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1428636195' post='11324901']
Ok, here's a new one. My financial terms were accepted, but now they added a clause asking me to guarantee that the development behind my property will not get any closer to the fence than has already been excavated. Yep, they want me to promise that private property owned by a third party won't be changed. Lol. Please God, give me a new offer!!
[/quote]

Lawyer here that does some real estate but it is only a small part of my practice. (the following is not legal advice, just the rantings of a lawyer who has seen people taken advantage of)

These people, and their realtor, sound like a nightmare.

You probably already know this but you can't make that guarantee. I'm guessing the title insurance would deny coverage for that as well, so you would end up paying out of pocket for that if they call you on the guarantee. I wouldn't say you should back out of the deal, especially if you are happy with the financial terms, but by all means get a lawyer involved on your side ASAP if you don't already. You want to make sure you cover all your bases on the agreements made. Realtors, even the good ones, aren't versed in contract law and have no fiduciary duty to look out for your interests the way a lawyer does. If a lawyer screws up something and costs you money, you can sue them for malpractice and recover that. Much harder to do so if you relied on a realtor to "review" a contract.

Also, there is no such thing as "sellers always pay closing costs." Might it be common, maybe, but you have a right to negotiate every aspect of a deal, there are no "this always happens" and anyone that tells you that is either lying or lacks legal knowledge. Those form contracts that realtors use that are pre-printed...they were written by a lawyer for the realty company and protect one thing...the realtor's commission. Last one I saw actually had a provision that even if the buyer backed out, the seller was still responsible for the realtor's commission!!! Then they would get another commission if they found another buyer. So it was actually in the best interests of the realtor to screw up the deal! Realtor actually told me, "no one's ever had a problem with that."

I have never seen a form real estate contract that had my client's interests protected.

Bottom line, and I am certainly biased but, there is no substitute for getting a good lawyer on your side when you are involved in a deal as significant as a home sale.

Good Luck!

[Wriggles]

Realtors work in the interests of the buyers. Sellers are already committed to a contract by signing up with an agency. I've only sold two properties in my life, both through deaths in the family. In my case, the realtor knows that it's costing money to keep the house, and knows he or she can work to the buyer's advantage.

The one property I had was a nice smaller ranch house in an excellent lower middle class neighborhood. In the end my property sold for 40K less than the property across the street. The buyer was getting a HUD loan, and with a mandatory inspection, the realtor kept nickel and diming me on what was MY responsibility to repair. Nothing major, the house was in excellent condition, having been owned by my elderly deceased aunt. The lady realtor brought out a list a mile long, such things as a 1" crack in a picture window, bathroom faucet dripping, and a workbench outlet not up to electrical code, among other idiotic things.

The house had a new furnace and water heater, new kitchen, newer bath fixtures, electrical updates, and a $6K new sewage system put in. I painted the entire interior, used 18 gallons of paint and my labor.

The last encounter I had with the lady realtor, I told her that if the guy didn't want the house at the agreed to price, tear up the contract, and I'd get another agency.

It sold for the agreed to price, with me paying closing costs. I lost money on the deal, but since the property was costing me money every month, I needed to sell.

My advice to anyone. Don't buy another house until you sell the current property. Having an extra empty property puts the seller in a disadvantaged situation.

Realtors WILL take advantage of you.

[highergr0und]

I think we've landed on simply removing that line and resubmitting our last offer. We found a perfect house today that we're likely going to miss out on due to this, so it really sucks.

[Jim Clark]

Unless you're really desperate to sell, tell them to pound sand.

[apple_crumble]

I find some realtors' kinda funny when they think they are immortal...

until they stand before a Judge.

[highergr0und]

[quote name='apple_crumble' timestamp='1429160282' post='11370951']
I find some realtors' kinda funny when they think they are immortal...

until they stand before a Judge.
[/quote]

I've been amazed at how fast and loose these folks play with contracts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

We did end up signing a deal with the crazy people, but then we just got another deal that has caused us to execute the 48 hour rule for the original people to either remove their contingencies or walk away. Word on the street is that they'll walk away, so that's good.

[Fairway Robbery]

So 48 hours later, how'd it go? Hopefully it worked out to your liking.

Fiancee and i "won" our house by being the "un-crazy" buyers. Competing buyers went bonkers on the seller demanding an EIGHT HUNDRED dollar radon remediation system be installed. Our offer mere hundreds above theirs was accepted instantly without them having a chance to counter. Oh and there's no need for the radon system after all. *swish*

Rule #1 in life: Don't be an a**hole...

[Fairway Robbery]

So 48 hours later, how'd it go? Hopefully it worked out to your liking.

Fiancee and i "won" our house by being the "un-crazy" buyers. Competing buyers went bonkers on the seller demanding an EIGHT HUNDRED dollar radon remediation system be installed. Our offer mere hundreds above theirs was accepted instantly without them having a chance to counter. Oh and there's no need for the radon system after all. *swish*

Rule #1 in life: Don't be an a**hole...

[highergr0und]

The original folks had to walk since they had no offers, and we are now under contract with a new family. They also have a house to sell, but it's in a sub where houses typically sell in 2-3 days, so we should be under a real non-contingent contract this week. We're also under contract on a house that checks every single box we had on our wish list. Now just got to cross my fingers and hope all goes well.