Critique my Trackman?

[Ranchobob]

So I spent some time at Cool Clubs last week getting fitted for a driver. I'm curious to hear what y'all think about my numbers. No swing video available at the moment--it's pretty atrocious if I do say so myself. But I'm curious to see what you have to say. I'm kind of disappointed in my distance given my swing speed, but as much as I hit down on the ball, I'm not surprised.

 

Thanks for taking the time to look!

 

Direct link if the image isn't good: http://i399.photobuc...n Fitting-1.jpg

 

 

[Ajlepisto]

Do you tend to miss out of the low heel?

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='Ranchobob' timestamp='1429668085' post='11412269']
So I spent some time at Cool Clubs last week getting fitted for a driver. I'm curious to hear what y'all think about my numbers. No swing video available at the moment--it's pretty atrocious if I do say so myself. But I'm curious to see what you have to say. I'm kind of disappointed in my distance given my swing speed, but as much as I hit down on the ball, I'm not surprised.

Thanks for taking the time to look!

Direct link if the image isn't good: [url="http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp80/double_entendreadv/Trackman%20Fitting-1.jpg"]http://i399.photobuc...n Fitting-1.jpg[/url]

[attachment=2722869:Trackman Fitting-1.jpg]
[/quote]
I'm a little skeptical of some of the #s given how old the software version is. Was the fitting down indoors? Couple things: spin is crazy high and ball speed very low given your club head speed. You wouldn't get near that much roll out outdoors. Suggests obviously impact not near the sweet spot and a lot of gear effect adding on top. Also the radar thinks you hit some toe shots. IMO you need to get the club working more up and less around unless you're literally dropping your hands down to your right hip and laying the shaft down in transition. Again this is just my opinion, but I think it's too hard to manage the path with the club head working that shallow and behind you late in the downswing. It appears your fix is a swing issue more so than an equipment fitting thing as you should be generating much more ball speed if you were making solid contact. Lots of players who are steep AoA and may launch it a bitter lower but still get nearly perfect smash readings.

[swizbeatz]

You have the same swing I used to have! Steep and inside, closed clubface in general to keep the ball from going right? You can tell it's closed from your dynamic loft and launch numbers. Need to start centering the ball better because of low smash but the biggest imo is swinging more up on the ball. Your carry numbers and spin are right where mine were when I was -6 AoA, now I'm +4 and about 30 yards longer with 2000 spin. All I did was start teeing it really high and trying to swing up on it. Now you know where the issues are though so you should be confident in making changes, I think TM is just as useful for checking your swing as it is for fittings.

[Hot Rod 71]

Your AoA need some work.

[Wasted_Talent]

Holy spin rate Batman.

[npham]

You definitely need to fix that AoA. It's the reason your spin rate is so high and your carry isn't great for your clubhead speed.

[mpghouse]

[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1429710660' post='11414711'] Holy spin rate Batman. [/quote]

lmao this is exactly what i said to myself when i saw those #s

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='npham' timestamp='1429712287' post='11414927']
You definitely need to fix that AoA. It's the reason your spin rate is so high and your carry isn't great for your clubhead speed.
[/quote]
Sort of, but not really. Lots of guys who are 5 and 6 down who still generate the ball speed at lower launch angles. The reason OP is getting such high spin is because he's hitting the ball below the center of gravity and getting alot of gear effect. The AoA is contributing but not the reason why. He's also not swinging steep and to the right either.....if anything it's the opposite. His swing direction is left and the ONLY reason his path ends up to the right is because he's way too flat. Super flat VSP's mean attack angle has a huge influence on the club path.

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1429716125' post='11415769']
[quote name='npham' timestamp='1429712287' post='11414927']
You definitely need to fix that AoA. It's the reason your spin rate is so high and your carry isn't great for your clubhead speed.
[/quote]
Sort of, but not really. Lots of guys who are 5 and 6 down who still generate the ball speed at lower launch angles. The reason OP is getting such high spin is because he's hitting the ball below the center of gravity and getting alot of gear effect. The AoA is contributing but not the reason why. He's also not swinging steep and to the right either.....if anything it's the opposite. His swing direction is left and the ONLY reason his path ends up to the right is because he's way too flat. Super flat VSP's mean attack angle has a huge influence on the club path.
[/quote]

So essentially you are saying he's hitting the ball too low on the face (thin) causing the gear effect, which is in turn generating massive amounts of back spin?

I question in an effort to learn not to argue.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1429718372' post='11416281']
[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1429716125' post='11415769']
[quote name='npham' timestamp='1429712287' post='11414927']
You definitely need to fix that AoA. It's the reason your spin rate is so high and your carry isn't great for your clubhead speed.
[/quote]
Sort of, but not really. Lots of guys who are 5 and 6 down who still generate the ball speed at lower launch angles. The reason OP is getting such high spin is because he's hitting the ball below the center of gravity and getting alot of gear effect. The AoA is contributing but not the reason why. He's also not swinging steep and to the right either.....if anything it's the opposite. His swing direction is left and the ONLY reason his path ends up to the right is because he's way too flat. Super flat VSP's mean attack angle has a huge influence on the club path.
[/quote]

So essentially you are saying he's hitting the ball too low on the face (thin) causing the gear effect, which is in turn generating massive amounts of back spin?

I question in an effort to learn not to argue.
[/quote]
Yep. Low launch angles and dynamic loft with high spin and a steep AoA all suggest vertical gear effect. What's unusual about OP's #s is that his vertical swing plane is extremely shallow/flat and typically when you see flat/shallow VSP's you also see flat/shallow/upward AoA's. You'd think, without seeing the swing, that OPs hands would have to be fairly high at impact to have a VSP in the 38 degree but usually that shallows the AoA.

[Golfrnut]

Agree with putter...

Impact location is problem #1. Excessive spin rates and lack of ball speed are both killers...and both a result of miss-hits.

AoA is not great...but not near the top of the list in terms of priorities...and not a root cause

[Ranchobob]

Hey guys, thank you for the thoughts & comments. I have been reading, but haven't had a moment to respond and I apologize.

 

If I have a specific miss on the face, it's more likely to be on the toe than the heel. Especially on my irons. I blame my head moving around and (I'm told) that my hands are higher at impact than they were at address. Ball flight until I recently added a layer of tape under the grip was a draw or hooky-draw that occasionally turned into a big hook. With the extra tape the miss is more likely to be a huge push-fade than a hook. Hmmmm.

 

I think that I come across the ball out-to-in, so I guess technically my ball flight is a pull-draw, eh?

 

Attached is a pic from a recent range session, albeit not that particular Trackman session.

 

I'll also try to post a video of my swing soon. That should be traumatic for all involved. :swoon:

 

[Hot Rod 71]

As soon as I saw the photo above I spotted your issue....

That r7 driver is waaaay to old....

A new driver will completely solve all of your problems....

[Golfrnut]

Hard to say with some of that....

Your personal driver looks to have been polar opposites of what they gave you at the fitting to swing. Your miss appears to be high center with your own driver, and all the ones from your fitting look to be low strikes judging by the spin/smash factors.

Comparatively speaking, it's hard to tell if you produced two different swings there or what was different between the equipment.

[Ajlepisto]

Were you hitting range practice balls or real golf balls during this session on Trackman?

[Ranchobob]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1429747888' post='11420335']
As soon as I saw the photo above I spotted your issue....

That r7 driver is waaaay to old....

A new driver will completely solve all of your problems....
[/quote]

Good grief. Seriously? You recognize the driver from that little information??? Egads. I'm impressed. (But it's an R7 Quad, not just an r7. Just saying.


[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1429755486' post='11421559']
Hard to say with some of that....

Your personal driver looks to have been polar opposites of what they gave you at the fitting to swing. Your miss appears to be high center with your own driver, and all the ones from your fitting look to be low strikes judging by the spin/smash factors.

Comparatively speaking, it's hard to tell if you produced two different swings there or what was different between the equipment.
[/quote]

If you want a guess, it was better swings during the Trackman, or, just as likely, my back wasn't acting up. Aging sucks, just saying.

But that said, each club was in quick succession from the other and the worst shot(s) with each were dropped. The worst were consistently big push-fades.

[quote name='Ajlepisto' timestamp='1429764042' post='11422403']
Were you hitting range practice balls or real golf balls during this session on Trackman?
[/quote]

Wait. Range balls aren't "real?"

(I keed, I keed. But yes, they were range balls. FWIW, it was a 300+ ball bucket and I grabbed the newest ones there were to be had. But no, I wasn't hitting Pro V1x or some such.)

[Ranchobob]

OK, as promised, for your comments, criticism and amusement:

http://vid399.photobucket.com/albums/pp80/double_entendreadv/Driver%202.mp4

http://vid399.photobucket.com/albums/pp80/double_entendreadv/Driver%201.mp4

Sorry they're not on Youtube, but I'm not anxious to toss 'em up there.

Thanks for your thoughts and input, folks!

Bob

[PutterKilledTheDream]

You should start with your hand path in the backswing. Hands working high and out... look how far your left arm separates from your torso half way back. It's getting you laid off at the top, but it appears that little extra move you may make to get more turn is sending the club way across the line at the top and also gets your right elbow out of position. From there, in transition everything is working out. Right shoulder and hip too high and your swing direction starts leftward. I see quite a bit of early extension at the bottom. Looks like the Tman #s...swing direction left, but you hit down and possibly the EE is resulting in such low VSP. IMO, if you work on getting your hands in more going back and shortening your backswing, you can start down without the re-routing OTT. FO would be nice to see but I also suspect you need more tilt away from the target coming down.

Ideally, these things would fix your swing direction and shallow out your AoA numbers.

[Smash Factors]

Almost 109 mph driver swing and carrying only 239 yards?

[Ranchobob]

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1430026930' post='11443629']
You should start with your hand path in the backswing. Hands working high and out... look how far your left arm separates from your torso half way back. It's getting you laid off at the top, but it appears that little extra move you may make to get more turn... [/quote]

Ah. That would be the little "bump" I do? It's like I finish my takeaway and then my brain says, "Not all the way to the top! Go more!" Le sigh.

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1430026930' post='11443629'] ...is sending the club way across the line at the top and also gets your right elbow out of position. From there, in transition everything is working out. Right shoulder and hip too high and your swing direction starts leftward. I see quite a bit of early extension at the bottom. [/quote]

Early extension at the bottom? I'm not sure I understand what you mean there. I absolutely agree that I like to try to get a lot of extension on the first 1/3 or so of the backswing and that it's a bad idea.

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1430026930' post='11443629']Looks like the Tman #s...swing direction left, but you hit down and possibly the EE is resulting in such low VSP.[/quote]

VSP?

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1430026930' post='11443629']IMO, if you work on getting your hands in more going back and shortening your backswing, you can start down without the re-routing OTT. FO would be nice to see but I also suspect you need more tilt away from the target coming down. [/quote]

FO? (Sorry, I don't hang in the instruction forum much--The idea of getting more swing thoughts in my head terrifies me.

[quote name='PutterKilledTheDream' timestamp='1430026930' post='11443629']Ideally, these things would fix your swing direction and shallow out your AoA numbers. [/quote]

Thank you so much for taking the time to look and think.

It drives me bonkers that 1) My pre-shot swing is a thing of beauty, but put a ball on the ground.... and 2) my swing speed is so high and yet I've got such mediocre distance.

[Ethandegraaf]

The spin rate with the ls tec g30 wtf

[Smash Factors]

Club head is wandering all over the place in that swing. All you need to work on is keeping your armpits closed and rely more on your shoulder turn to do the work rather than steering the club around with your arms.

Imagine a swing robot like the Iron Byron. It brings the club straight back on a perfect line. You don't have to be perfect, but it's a much easier way to think about what your back-swing should look like.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

when you reach for more and try to turn further the club gets across the line. From there you have to compensate which is getting you swinging too far left. Early extension means losing you posture down into impact, not the wide extension your trying for during the takeaway. It's your body's reaction to being in a bad position. VSP is one of the numbers in your Trackman session that was extremely shallow ( low number) and 'early extension' helps to shallow that out...you can see it as your hands raise through the hit. FO ( face on video) would help to see how much tilt away from the target you have and based on the DTL ( down the line video) it looks like you don't have nearly enough...mostly because you have to come OTT( over the top) from being so far across the line and your right shoulder and hip spin out a bit or pop out too high. That causes steep AoA's.

IMO start working on your takeaway and getting hands working in more and try to shorten your swing...it'll help your transition starting back down and allow you to get into a 'shallower' position to come into the ball without swinging so far left and down. You basically can't get the downswing plane moving in the right direction being so far across at the top. Right side needs to be able to work down more and less out and around as you start the downswing.


This where you are :

[attachment=2730459:Screen Shot 2015-04-26 at 1.50.51 PM.png]


Where you should stop:

[attachment=2730473:Screen Shot 2015-04-26 at 1.56.23 PM.png]