Pull the handle on the downswing

[Tanner25]

I know this goes against WRX common sense. But, has anyone had any success pulling the handle on the downswing? I have done this off and on over the years and recently stayed with it and had some success. With a bad back and former frozen shoulders, it seems this is the only way I can get some pop into the ball. Please, no suggestions on lessons. Thanks, Tanner

[DonMega884]

I think that's the thought of Sergio Garcia. He calls it pulling down the rope I believe

[juststeve]

Pulling the handle means different things to different people. I have a book at home in which Sam Snead says he triggers his downswing by pulling straight down with the last three fingers of his left hand. He calls it tolling the bell. On the other hand I have seen other people pull so much that they can never get the club back to square. Depends what you mean by "pulling the handle".

Steve

[PapaJohick]

Like the above poster said, it's how the user interprets that phrase. For some that will help shallow out the shaft or it can cause the player to come in really steep.

[MonteScheinblum]

It's something good players may feel they do to not over shallow the shaft.

Sergio is layer off and drops his arms. If he didn't yank he handle to steepen it some, he'd be in deep do do.

The vast majority ( well over 90%) of ams have trouble shallowing. They get a short term feel of false power and then the inevitable...

After you hit two consecutive balls in the heel...take the rest of the day off and never try again.

[TB07]

That's Monte's go to swing thought when he needs a little extra at the long drive championships.

[bph7]

Will make you steep. Especially bad if right arm is out of position at top. I'd recommend lessons if you actually want to get better. If you don't want to get better but rather just try random stuff that'll never stick, why not pull on the handle for a little while I guess? You can always change to a new thought after the next golf channel academy I guess.

[PapaJohick]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430866216' post='11505771']
That's Monte's go to swing thought when he needs a little extra at the long drive championships.
[/quote]

Especially when he wants to create a ton of lag because that's what the best and longest hitters do to be above everyone else haha

[Tanner25]

[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1430863849' post='11505539']
Pulling the handle means different things to different people. I have a book at home in which Sam Snead says he triggers his downswing by pulling straight down with the last three fingers of his left hand. He calls it tolling the bell. On the other hand I have seen other people pull so much that they can never get the club back to square. Depends what you mean by "pulling the handle".

Steve
[/quote]

Thanks, Steve. For me it is pulling the club down with my left hand only. This week I was watching a baseball game and the announcer was talking about the players injured wrist and how it affected his home run production. He said, that is where the power comes from - the bottom left wrist (rightie). I thought that was interesting and applicable to this swing style. Tanner

[Tanner25]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1430868844' post='11506017']
Will make you steep. Especially bad if right arm is out of position at top. I'd recommend lessons if you actually want to get better. If you don't want to get better but rather just try random stuff that'll never stick, why not pull on the handle for a little while I guess? You can always change to a new thought after the next golf channel academy I guess.
[/quote]

Thanks, BPH. I knew I can count on you for that comment. If you don't like my posts. Don't respond to them.

[TB07]

Pulling the handle is fine as long as you pull it in the correct direction, and the elbow doesn't work too far behind. Usually what happens when one thinks o pulling the handle is that the handle works too much down, and not enough out. This tends to get right elbow behind, or pointing horizontal, and steepens the shaft.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1430861743' post='11505329']
I know this goes against WRX common sense. But, has anyone had any success pulling the handle on the downswing? I have done this off and on over the years and recently stayed with it and had some success. With a bad back and former frozen shoulders, it seems this is the only way I can get some pop into the ball. Please, no suggestions on lessons. Thanks, Tanner
[/quote]

If it works - do it. If it stops working - try something different. If 90% of people don't like it - so what? Maybe you're the 10% that it works for.

I am guessing you're an amateur/weekend hacker like most of us. So the "journey" to find the things that work for your game is part of the fun of the game. You ought to know that all swing cues don't work for all people. Heck - ask Monte or any teacher on GolfWRX what works for them - and it simply won't be applicable to your/my game. You're the captain of your own swing - and as long as it allows you to play to your own SATISFACTION - that's pretty good IMO.

I have 3 cues that allow me to play my best (I've been as low as a 7 cap up to 13 over the past 10 years)...perfect for corporate golf and I'll fight any man that says different!!! (not really ). 1) keep my back to the target as long as I can; 2) "left ribcage up" to power the swing and 3) elbows lead the hands.

Do these cues make any difference to you? With respect... I doubt it - and I don't really care. But they make sense to me - and produce results that make me happy.

And that's what matters most to me and my game.

May the force be with you....!

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430913389' post='11508609']Pulling the handle is fine as long as you pull it in the correct direction, and the elbow doesn't work too far behind. Usually what happens when one thinks o pulling the handle is that the handle works too much down, and not enough out. This tends to get right elbow behind, or pointing horizontal, and steepens the shaft.[/quote]I like to think of pushing the handle(left hand) straight down from the top.The out happens too because arms are attached to a rotating torso.This thought is good for me because I tend to open shoulders quickly and not work down at all.So this thought with left arm helps to stop that action.My thought would not be good for everyone,obviously.

[bph7]

[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1430911883' post='11508547']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1430868844' post='11506017']
Will make you steep. Especially bad if right arm is out of position at top. I'd recommend lessons if you actually want to get better. If you don't want to get better but rather just try random stuff that'll never stick, why not pull on the handle for a little while I guess? You can always change to a new thought after the next golf channel academy I guess.
[/quote]

Thanks, BPH. I knew I can count on you for that comment. If you don't like my posts. Don't respond to them.
[/quote]

No prob man. What about my advice do you disagree with? Was just trying to help. Do you disagree that you will make another post about another YouTube or golf channel concept within a week or two?

[TB07]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430914941' post='11508727']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430913389' post='11508609']Pulling the handle is fine as long as you pull it in the correct direction, and the elbow doesn't work too far behind. Usually what happens when one thinks o pulling the handle is that the handle works too much down, and not enough out. This tends to get right elbow behind, or pointing horizontal, and steepens the shaft.[/quote]I like to think of pushing the handle(left hand) straight down from the top.The out happens too because arms are attached to a rotating torso.This thought is good for me because I tend to open shoulders quickly and not work down at all.So this thought with left arm helps to stop that action.My thought would not be good for everyone,obviously.
[/quote]

Should work down, out, and forward. Just down could get steep, and behind. That's said, everyone is different in what they need. If you have too much out, and not enough down, then yes. Also, if the elbow has been behind, and you are working more towards pitch, it will feel like elbow leads the hands. Which can have the FEEL, or illusion that the hands are working straight down.

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430918133' post='11508961'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430914941' post='11508727']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430913389' post='11508609']Pulling the handle is fine as long as you pull it in the correct direction, and the elbow doesn't work too far behind. Usually what happens when one thinks o pulling the handle is that the handle works too much down, and not enough out. This tends to get right elbow behind, or pointing horizontal, and steepens the shaft.[/quote]I like to think of pushing the handle(left hand) straight down from the top.The out happens too because arms are attached to a rotating torso.This thought is good for me because I tend to open shoulders quickly and not work down at all.So this thought with left arm helps to stop that action.My thought would not be good for everyone,obviously.
[/quote]

Should work down, out, and forward. Just down could get steep, and behind. That's said, everyone is different in what they need. If you have too much out, and not enough down, then yes. Also, if the elbow has been behind, and you are working more towards pitch, it will feel like elbow leads the hands. Which can have the FEEL, or illusion that the hands are working straight down.[/quote]Yes and I fell into the too out category with high right shoulder,which is why I had no prayer of shallowing.Arms would immediately start rotating closed because they had to in order to get to the ball.I am now realizing this stuff after 15 fruitless years of bad golf instruction.

[Grayback1973]

Oh...and trying to keep that right elbow bent 90 as long as possible.Good Lord,no wonder I got nowhere for so long.What a fool I was!

[Dave D]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430923977' post='11509651']
Oh...and trying to keep that right elbow bent 90 as long as possible.Good Lord,no wonder I got nowhere for so long.What a fool I was!
[/quote]
its an amazing thing when Dan sorts your swing out, its like a light bulb turning on after years of fumbling in the dark looking for the switch

[Grayback1973]

[quote name=' Dave D' timestamp='1430924613' post='11509721'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430923977' post='11509651']
Oh...and trying to keep that right elbow bent 90 as long as possible.Good Lord,no wonder I got nowhere for so long.What a fool I was!
[/quote]
its an amazing thing when Dan sorts your swing out, its like a light bulb turning on after years of fumbling in the dark looking for the switch[/quote]Yep,the simple concept of right arm straightening is never talked about.At least I have never seen it,yet every great swing it is happening.Still shot after still shot just continuously shows it happening.Now it just seems so fundamental and I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?

[joeunc]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430933134' post='11510707']
[quote name=' Dave D' timestamp='1430924613' post='11509721'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430923977' post='11509651']
Oh...and trying to keep that right elbow bent 90 as long as possible.Good Lord,no wonder I got nowhere for so long.What a fool I was!
[/quote]
its an amazing thing when Dan sorts your swing out, its like a light bulb turning on after years of fumbling in the dark looking for the switch[/quote]Yep,the simple concept of right arm straightening is never talked about.At least I have never seen it,yet every great swing it is happening.Still shot after still shot just continuously shows it happening.Now it just seems so fundamental and I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?
[/quote]


When/where do you feel your right arm straightening? Is it from the top like Monte's no turn cast drill or different. I like to think about it as my left hand and butt of the club are clearing past P6 as the hands must start working back up at the point.

Cause i know Dan likes to get you to get that left arm off the chest and get it forward, like slamming the butt end into a wall or similar.

thx

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430933134' post='11510707']
[quote name=' Dave D' timestamp='1430924613' post='11509721'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430923977' post='11509651']
Oh...and trying to keep that right elbow bent 90 as long as possible.Good Lord,no wonder I got nowhere for so long.What a fool I was!
[/quote]
its an amazing thing when Dan sorts your swing out, its like a light bulb turning on after years of fumbling in the dark looking for the switch[/quote]Yep,the simple concept of right arm straightening is never talked about.At least I have never seen it,yet every great swing it is happening.Still shot after still shot just continuously shows it happening.Now it just seems so fundamental and I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?
[/quote]

Because Higan had a very bent elbow...because he had to with his anatomy.

It's not rocket science. Elbow is bent around 90 at the top, less at impact and straight after impact.

The elbow is in process of straightening from the top.

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430934314' post='11510843'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430933134' post='11510707']
[quote name=' Dave D' timestamp='1430924613' post='11509721'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430923977' post='11509651']
Oh...and trying to keep that right elbow bent 90 as long as possible.Good Lord,no wonder I got nowhere for so long.What a fool I was!
[/quote]
its an amazing thing when Dan sorts your swing out, its like a light bulb turning on after years of fumbling in the dark looking for the switch[/quote]Yep,the simple concept of right arm straightening is never talked about.At least I have never seen it,yet every great swing it is happening.Still shot after still shot just continuously shows it happening.Now it just seems so fundamental and I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?
[/quote]

Because Higan had a very bent elbow...because he had to with his anatomy.

It's not rocket science. Elbow is bent around 90 at the top, less at impact and straight after impact.

The elbow is in process of straightening from the top.[/quote]Yeah I see that now as clear as day. There is a tremendous difference between trying to keep it very bent and trying to straighten it from the top.That difference is between steepening and shallowing,and if you are shallowing you have a much better chance of having descent misses whereas when you steepen it is a complete manipulation guessing game.

[Grayback1973]

JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.

[joeunc]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

Whatever do you mean by "curling a dumbbell one handed from the top", it has peaked my curiosity, and I hope I am not moving it like Christo :-)

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='joeunc' timestamp='1430935934' post='11511025'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

Whatever do you mean by "curling a dumbbell one handed from the top", it has peaked my curiosity, and I hope I am not moving it like Christo :-)[/quote]I posted a video where I demonstrate it.Its on the shallowing thread.That is my intent or feel.

[joeunc]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430936237' post='11511053']
[quote name='joeunc' timestamp='1430935934' post='11511025'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

Whatever do you mean by "curling a dumbbell one handed from the top", it has peaked my curiosity, and I hope I am not moving it like Christo :-)[/quote]I posted a video where I demonstrate it.Its on the shallowing thread.That is my intent or feel.
[/quote]

thanks.... link?

[CrabDaddy]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430933134' post='11510707']I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?[/quote]
Not necessarily "garbage". Ernie Els offered a tip to keep the elbow bent as long as possible. From personal experience, I could hit it very straight, but lost a good bit of distance with this intent. I think it promoted right side bend. Might also feel like leading with the right elbow for some. But, obviously, won't work for everybody.

[joeunc]

[quote name='CrabDaddy' timestamp='1430939462' post='11511441']
[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430933134' post='11510707']I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?[/quote]
Not necessarily "garbage". Ernie Els offered a tip to keep the elbow bent as long as possible. From personal experience, I could hit it very straight, but lost a good bit of distance with this intent. I think it promoted right side bend. Might also feel like leading with the right elbow for some. But, obviously, won't work for everybody.
[/quote]

true, when I think straighten the right arm early I have a tendency to dump the club early or drop kick it. If I carry my hands and the butt of the club deep enough in the downswing and then let it go I have no such issues.

[Tanner25]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1430914219' post='11508659']
[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1430861743' post='11505329']
I know this goes against WRX common sense. But, has anyone had any success pulling the handle on the downswing? I have done this off and on over the years and recently stayed with it and had some success. With a bad back and former frozen shoulders, it seems this is the only way I can get some pop into the ball. Please, no suggestions on lessons. Thanks, Tanner
[/quote]

If it works - do it. If it stops working - try something different. If 90% of people don't like it - so what? Maybe you're the 10% that it works for.

I am guessing you're an amateur/weekend hacker like most of us. So the "journey" to find the things that work for your game is part of the fun of the game. You ought to know that all swing cues don't work for all people. Heck - ask Monte or any teacher on GolfWRX what works for them - and it simply won't be applicable to your/my game. You're the captain of your own swing - and as long as it allows you to play to your own SATISFACTION - that's pretty good IMO.

I have 3 cues that allow me to play my best (I've been as low as a 7 cap up to 13 over the past 10 years)...perfect for corporate golf and I'll fight any man that says different!!! (not really ). 1) keep my back to the target as long as I can; 2) "left ribcage up" to power the swing and 3) elbows lead the hands.

Do these cues make any difference to you? With respect... I doubt it - and I don't really care. But they make sense to me - and produce results that make me happy.

And that's what matters most to me and my game.

May the force be with you....!
[/quote]

HeyChipDriver, Thanks, for the support and positive post. I am, all for trying simple swing keys. Appreciate you sharing yours! Tanner

edit: It seems your move creates a hip bump!

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='CrabDaddy' timestamp='1430939462' post='11511441'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430933134' post='11510707']I can't believe that a lot of these teachers are encouraging a bent right arm as long as possible! Where are they getting the idea to teach that garbage?[/quote]
Not necessarily "garbage". Ernie Els offered a tip to keep the elbow bent as long as possible. From personal experience, I could hit it very straight, but lost a good bit of distance with this intent. I think it promoted right side bend. Might also feel like leading with the right elbow for some. But, obviously, won't work for everybody.[/quote]Fair enough.I had horrible results for over a decade with this idea which is why I am a bit passionate against it.