Pull the handle on the downswing

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1430944271' post='11511965']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1430914219' post='11508659']
[quote name='Tanner25' timestamp='1430861743' post='11505329']
I know this goes against WRX common sense. But, has anyone had any success pulling the handle on the downswing? I have done this off and on over the years and recently stayed with it and had some success. With a bad back and former frozen shoulders, it seems this is the only way I can get some pop into the ball. Please, no suggestions on lessons. Thanks, Tanner
[/quote]

If it works - do it. If it stops working - try something different. If 90% of people don't like it - so what? Maybe you're the 10% that it works for.

I am guessing you're an amateur/weekend hacker like most of us. So the "journey" to find the things that work for your game is part of the fun of the game. You ought to know that all swing cues don't work for all people. Heck - ask Monte or any teacher on GolfWRX what works for them - and it simply won't be applicable to your/my game. You're the captain of your own swing - and as long as it allows you to play to your own SATISFACTION - that's pretty good IMO.

I have 3 cues that allow me to play my best (I've been as low as a 7 cap up to 13 over the past 10 years)...perfect for corporate golf and I'll fight any man that says different!!! (not really ). 1) keep my back to the target as long as I can; 2) "left ribcage up" to power the swing and 3) elbows lead the hands.

Do these cues make any difference to you? With respect... I doubt it - and I don't really care. But they make sense to me - and produce results that make me happy.

And that's what matters most to me and my game.

May the force be with you....!
[/quote]

HeyChipDriver, Thanks, for the support and positive post. I am, all for trying simple swing keys. Appreciate you sharing yours! Tanner

edit: It seems your move creates a hip bump!
[/quote]

No problem - my point was to do what works for you - despite what naysayers may warn.

As to your edit - it actually makes my point - you feel a "hip bump" with my cues.

I don't.

#1 prevents me from swaying, and my arms drop; #2 keeps my head/spine from dipping down; and #3 prevents me from throwing away my angle, and lag the club. They work for ME...so that's my story and I'm sticking to it. And they didn't come from the same pro.

Find your own way - and trust yourself. Play well.

[TB07]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

You have mentioned him a few times. What is his deal? Don't know much about him.

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430959385' post='11513463'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

You have mentioned him a few times. What is his deal? Don't know much about him.[/quote]He is a guy who is documenting his swing journey which is ultimately to swing like Hogan.He has a you tube channel with now hundreds of videos about his findings.I really like his stuff,not that I believe in all of it,but more his positive personality.Definitely entertaining and some of his thoughts are interesting.

[TB07]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430959940' post='11513521']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430959385' post='11513463'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

You have mentioned him a few times. What is his deal? Don't know much about him.[/quote]He is a guy who is documenting his swing journey which is ultimately to swing like Hogan.He has a you tube channel with now hundreds of videos about his findings.I really like his stuff,not that I believe in all of it,but more his positive personality.Definitely entertaining and some of his thoughts are interesting.
[/quote]

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if he was a teacher or not. His concepts seem to be the opposite of what you are working on though. But ithey does sound interesting.

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430960914' post='11513665'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430959940' post='11513521']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430959385' post='11513463'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

You have mentioned him a few times. What is his deal? Don't know much about him.[/quote]He is a guy who is documenting his swing journey which is ultimately to swing like Hogan.He has a you tube channel with now hundreds of videos about his findings.I really like his stuff,not that I believe in all of it,but more his positive personality.Definitely entertaining and some of his thoughts are interesting.
[/quote]

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if he was a teacher or not. His concepts seem to be the opposite of what you are working on though. But ithey does sound interesting.[/quote]He is really is just entertaining.I don't think I have ever tried implementing any of his concepts.I do give him a lot of credit though.He has drastically improved his game in the last 3 years.

[westcyderydin]

Here is my question:

As a left side dominant swinger (front arm/shoulder/hip/etc.) how do you get the club down in time with the arms?

I just don't hear a lot of tips for the front side...its mostly right elbow, right shoulder stuff.

[MonteScheinblum]

Left shoulder away from the target, left arm off the chest, left hip up and away from the ball.

[westcyderydin]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target, left arm off the chest, left hip up and away from the ball.
[/quote]

Thanks for responding, just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly...

- Left shoulder away from the target...in the backswing...
- Left arm of the chest...downswing...
- Left hip up and away from the ball...I see the away part...is the up part just because of the angle of the hip rotation?

Thanks, again.

[MonteScheinblum]

No, downswing.
Yes
Yes

[Tanner25]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430961830' post='11513777']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430960914' post='11513665'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430959940' post='11513521']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1430959385' post='11513463'][quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1430935163' post='11510951']
JoeUnc,
Your feel or thought on it is very similar to Christo Garcia's video about pulling the sword from the scabbard.My feel is like curling a dumbbell one handed from the top.
[/quote]

You have mentioned him a few times. What is his deal? Don't know much about him.[/quote]He is a guy who is documenting his swing journey which is ultimately to swing like Hogan.He has a you tube channel with now hundreds of videos about his findings.I really like his stuff,not that I believe in all of it,but more his positive personality.Definitely entertaining and some of his thoughts are interesting.
[/quote]

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if he was a teacher or not. His concepts seem to be the opposite of what you are working on though. But ithey does sound interesting.[/quote]He is really is just entertaining.I don't think I have ever tried implementing any of his concepts.I do give him a lot of credit though.He has drastically improved his game in the last 3 years.
[/quote]

He is talking about a pulling action here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZZ0doDjP6c

[gaz7788]

He has written quite a nice ebook about his journey too.

[Coat Jones]

Tanner25

If you want to get close to being able to sense that which you seek, and I would not go so far as calling it a direct pull, I would suggest studying Ernest Jones's Swing the Clubhead. Pay special attention to the use of the handkerchief as it enlightens by avoiding using a strong leverage sequence as a primary. Swinging that hankie properly, under low leverage, will tend to manifest in that feel sequence inquired about.

Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

[Tanner25]

[quote name='Coat Jones' timestamp='1431003417' post='11515837']
Tanner25

If you want to get close to being able to sense that which you seek, and I would not go so far as calling it a direct pull, I would suggest studying Ernest Jones's Swing the Clubhead. Pay special attention to the use of the handkerchief as it enlightens by avoiding using a strong leverage sequence as a primary. Swinging that hankie properly, under low leverage, will tend to manifest in that feel sequence inquired about.

Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
[/quote]

Thanks, Coat Jones. I'll check it out. Did you see this...

http://www.golfwrx.com/295275/revisiting-ernest-jones-swing-the-clubhead/

[FatReed]

Coat,

In the theme of Ernest Jones. . .

Seems you carry special interest, if not insight, with the approach of 'swinging the clubhead.'

I've periodically experimented with a very loose wrist hinge action or, as Ernest suggests, one free of leverage. For me, the key seems to be patience. Particularly with abbreviated (pitch/chip) shots, very easy to get 'yipish' (quick) with the trail hand; shanks and fats.

In the full swing, it seems particularly difficult to sync upper body with lower body pivot. Again, tendency to get 'yipish' (quick) with hands, typically coupled with a pivot stall.

For anyone new to this approach, and experiencing the above tendencies, what would you suggest toward improvement? For example, given Ernest was shy one lower limb, it would be fair to suggest pivot was not part of his swing. Does that imply one should negate any intent toward pivot? If so, it would seem to negate a massive power component to the golf swing?

Interested in your thoughts

[Wasted_Talent]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target
[/quote]

Can you explain this more? Thanks.

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1431082923' post='11521539'][quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target
[/quote]

Can you explain this more? Thanks.[/quote]I would assume that he means the shoulders stay closed off during transition for the most part.Most bad players open them too soon throwing the shaft out too much.The result is that they have to get steep in order to get back to the ball.

Correct me if I am wrong Monte.This is just my thought on what you are saying.

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430865457' post='11505685']
After you hit two consecutive balls in the heel...take the rest of the day off and never try again.
[/quote]
Where were you a year ago when I wasted twice as much time and hit four off the heel?

[jut111]

I'll take a stab.

Think about where your shoulders are at the top of the backswing. Feeling the left moving away from the target then promotes a 90 degree shoulder rotation around your tilted spine, while keeping the upper body behind the ball and also gets the arms/hands forward.

[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1431082923' post='11521539']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target
[/quote]

Can you explain this more? Thanks.
[/quote]

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1431096259' post='11522829'][quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430865457' post='11505685']
After you hit two consecutive balls in the heel...take the rest of the day off and never try again.
[/quote]
Where were you a year ago when I wasted twice as much time and hit four off the heel?[/quote]I hit them off of the heel for 17 years and found out why last summer.Now my misses are toward the toe.First time in my life!

[TB07]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1431095525' post='11522735']
[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1431082923' post='11521539'][quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target
[/quote]

Can you explain this more? Thanks.[/quote]I would assume that he means the shoulders stay closed off during transition for the most part.Most bad players open them too soon throwing the shaft out too much.The result is that they have to get steep in order to get back to the ball.

Correct me if I am wrong Monte.This is just my thought on what you are saying.
[/quote]

Lead shoulder opening would get hands further forward.

[Wasted_Talent]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1431097844' post='11523023']
[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1431095525' post='11522735']
[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1431082923' post='11521539'][quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target
[/quote]

Can you explain this more? Thanks.[/quote]I would assume that he means the shoulders stay closed off during transition for the most part.Most bad players open them too soon throwing the shaft out too much.The result is that they have to get steep in order to get back to the ball.

Correct me if I am wrong Monte.This is just my thought on what you are saying.
[/quote]

Lead shoulder opening would get hands further forward.
[/quote]

So, what is meant by keeping the lead shoulder away from the target on the downswing?

[TB07]

[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1431097984' post='11523049']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1431097844' post='11523023']
[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1431095525' post='11522735']
[quote name='Gawbage_man' timestamp='1431082923' post='11521539'][quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430962947' post='11513955']
Left shoulder away from the target
[/quote]

Can you explain this more? Thanks.[/quote]I would assume that he means the shoulders stay closed off during transition for the most part.Most bad players open them too soon throwing the shaft out too much.The result is that they have to get steep in order to get back to the ball.

Correct me if I am wrong Monte.This is just my thought on what you are saying.
[/quote]

Lead shoulder opening would get hands further forward.
[/quote]

So, what is meant by keeping the lead shoulder away from the target on the downswing?
[/quote]
Lead shoulder moves up, in, and back.

[Wasted_Talent]

Gotcha, as opposed to forward.

[starsail85]

as mentioned before, pulling is fine as a feel if you work it in the right direction.

for your typical OTT slicer down may work as a feel

for your stuck low handicaper out and forward may work better

[joeunc]

you can only pull it so much down because once your hands get about the right thigh in P6 the hands and the shaft and the left shoulder all have to start working up and away.

[TB07]

[quote name='joeunc' timestamp='1431107732' post='11524149']
you can only pull it so much down because once your hands get about the right thigh in P6 the hands and the shaft and the left shoulder all have to start working up and away.
[/quote]

Hands are working out well before p6.

[joeunc]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1431109221' post='11524279']
[quote name='joeunc' timestamp='1431107732' post='11524149']
you can only pull it so much down because once your hands get about the right thigh in P6 the hands and the shaft and the left shoulder all have to start working up and away.
[/quote]

Hands are working out well before p6.
[/quote]

right I know, they just can't work down but so long as they have to start going up so the club can go down

[kg1128]

don't pull the handle.

how are you gonna square up the clubface coming into impact?

oh, momentum will somehow take over and clubface will square up magically. BS. this magic is also known as flip.

[westcyderydin]

As a puller it feels like my left hand is pulling the club down through impact.

To a non-puller does it feel like the left hand starts the downswing, but then the right hand takes over somewhere...maybe around chest or hip high?

I'm tryin' to quit here...



[quote name='kg1128' timestamp='1431137329' post='11526593']

how are you gonna square up the clubface coming into impact?

oh, momentum will somehow take over and clubface will square up magically. BS. this magic is also known as flip.
[/quote]

Hips move too far forward in downswing without rotating correctly. No BS, hands forward no problem.......but front hip/back area always hurts, divots are deep and ballflight tends to be on the low side. Or at least that how it goes for me.

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1431097177' post='11522965'][quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1431096259' post='11522829'][quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1430865457' post='11505685']
After you hit two consecutive balls in the heel...take the rest of the day off and never try again.
[/quote]
Where were you a year ago when I wasted twice as much time and hit four off the heel?[/quote]I hit them off of the heel for 17 years and found out why last summer.Now my misses are toward the toe.First time in my life![/quote]
My miss is always toe, so when I hit heel once I thought "great!" And then when you see ball flight on these newer clubs.......on old blades, the heel is okay. Not so much on the new stuff!