Players and Golf Channel ripping the greens this morning

[braincramp52]

Chambers Bay is taking a beating this morning from everybody. Everybody has to play the course but the players are saying 40% of the greens are almost unputtable. Chamblee brought up a good point. He said if I have a 4 foot putt on Sunday on one side of the hole with no poana and someone else has a 4 foot on the other side that is full of it, it's not a fair test of our abilities.

[ThominOH]

I am so sick of the crying and whining about the greens at the US Open.. It's just another variable of playing that everyone has to deal with, and sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield.. Maybe the wind is calm now, but gust up to 30mph during my shot.. STUFF happens !!! This is no different then the unknown variable of going off in the morning or afternoon, as the weather changes during the day, there is always the unknown factor that you might get help or get screwed.. Now as for the greens.. ARE THEY F'ing kidding me, or have these spoiled snobs forgot about the "decades" of spike marks on the greens.. ( remember the decades of golf spikes before there were new modern soft spikes to wear? ).. How many times do we see one pro hit an errant shot 10 yards off the green and end up in a horrendous lie? While his playing partner hits a similar bad shot but ends up where the gallery has trampled down the rough and has a good lie? STUFF happens..

The media and players just need to accept it and deal with it and stop acting like spoiled babies.. Keep in mind too.. I bet there were as many putts that got a GOOD bump into the hole, when they should of actually missed it.. But that doesn't count does it? lol

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='lawsonman' timestamp='1434803501' post='11792142']
Chambers Bay is taking a beating this morning from everybody. Everybody has to play the course but the players are saying 40% of the greens are almost unputtable. Chamblee brought up a good point. He said if I have a 4 foot putt on Sunday on one side of the hole with no poana and someone else has a 4 foot on the other side that is full of it, it's not a fair test of our abilities.
[/quote]

There are imperfections in all greens and over 72 holes, all players will have had their share of putts with either no or a lot of poa annua.

[Smith65]

I saw a player three putt from about 25 feet yesterday. His first putt went about 25 feet towards the hole before it broke left and nearly took a U Turn. It ended up about 10 feet from where it began and the player still had some 20 feet left to putt. This all after hitting a great shot into that green. Too many great shots are being punished like this. Goofy golf.

[braincramp52]

[quote name='ThominOH' timestamp='1434804127' post='11792178']
I am so sick of the crying and whining about the greens at the US Open.. It's just another variable of playing that everyone has to deal with, and sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield.. Maybe the wind is calm now, but gust up to 30mph during my shot.. STUFF happens !!! This is no different then the unknown variable of going off in the morning or afternoon, as the weather changes during they there is always the unknown factor that you might get help or get screwed.. Now as for the greens.. ARE THEY F'ing kidding me, or have these spoiled snobs forgot about the "decades" of spike marks on the greens.. ( remember the decades of golf spikes before there were new modern soft spikes to wear? ).. How many times do we see one pro hit an errant shot 10 yards off the green and end up in a horrendous lie? While his playing partner hits a similar bad shot but ends up where the gallery has trampled down the rough and has a good lie? STUFF happens..

The media and players just need to accept it and deal with it and stop acting like spoiled babies.. Keep in mind too.. I bet there were as many putts that got a GOOD bump into the hole, when they should of actually missed it.. But that doesn't count does it? lol
[/quote]

I'm with ya. I was really surprised that so many were bashing it. They usually don't do it until after the tournament.

[bladehunter]

Yes but by that logic you want the player with the best luck to win the U.S. Open. Not the best putter this week ?! That isn't the best scenario in my opinion. These guys had 8 years to grow some grass on these greens. Thats what all the griping is about. The lack of preparedness.

[kro88]

The players and the media should be embarrassed. The complaining is absolutely unbelievable. There are plenty of guys under par and a 15 year old was able to shoot 77 on day 1. I don't understand why these guys don't shut up because it looks real bad for them.

This is the largest field in golf and guys have been trekking up and down the fairways for 2 weeks now. Greens will be bumpy.

At the end of the day it comes down to execution when it counts. And whoever is able to do that will win.

[cxx]

Does anyone really think that these greens are good? Would you want them on your course? Irregular greens are one of the worst flaws.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1434804641' post='11792220']
Yes but by that logic you want the player with the best luck to win the U.S. Open. Not the best putter this week ?! That isn't the best scenario in my opinion. These guys had 8 years to grow some grass on these greens. Thats what all the griping is about. The lack of preparedness.
[/quote]

Why should the best putter win the tournament ? It's overall skill, not just putting ...

I agree that the greens leave a lot to be desired, but the pros have complained about the poa annua greens at Pebble Beach for years,

Hit it closer to the hole and you'll have a better change over 72 holes of winning.

[Splitter]

I've already said that I think they are whining too much. Chamblee is just doing his normal bit of dumping fuel on the local fire so he can share in the light. He needs to find his own source of warmth instead of leeching it off others,

There was a thread a few weeks ago about how the pros would do on a muni course vs. a normal pga course. The consensus was that it wouldn't matter. While I tend to agree, I think this shows that the round would probably have a fair bit of pouting and 3' pick ups in it too.

[bladehunter]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1434805069' post='11792248'][quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1434804641' post='11792220']
Yes but by that logic you want the player with the best luck to win the U.S. Open. Not the best putter this week ?! That isn't the best scenario in my opinion. These guys had 8 years to grow some grass on these greens. Thats what all the griping is about. The lack of preparedness.
[/quote]

Why should the best putter win the tournament ? It's overall skill, not just putting ...

I agree that the greens leave a lot to be desired, but the pros have complained about the poa annua greens at Pebble Beach for years,

Hit it closer to the hole and you'll have a better change over 72 holes of winning.[/quote]


So your saying knock them all stiff ? Well that makes sense. Why didn't I think of that ? Now back to the real world where most will have 10-15 foot birdie putts it is down to luck of the draw for rolling them in. 8 years they have had to build a putting surface for this tournament. Epic fail for that reason.

[ChrisNH]

The bottom line is that many players feel that the greens are not good enough for them. Other players play the test for what it is and adapt their game to the test. Guess who will do better?

[birdie_hunter]

What are you guys talking about? Half of the greens are horrible with 1-4 inch patches of poana covering the greens like chickenpox on small child. I don't see greens this bad at my worst local muni and neither do most WRXers.

You almost never hear any of the pros talking bad about the course. Gotta think there's something to it when so many of the big names are saying the same thing.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1434805811' post='11792278']
[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1434805069' post='11792248'][quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1434804641' post='11792220']
Yes but by that logic you want the player with the best luck to win the U.S. Open. Not the best putter this week ?! That isn't the best scenario in my opinion. These guys had 8 years to grow some grass on these greens. Thats what all the griping is about. The lack of preparedness.
[/quote]

Why should the best putter win the tournament ? It's overall skill, not just putting ...

I agree that the greens leave a lot to be desired, but the pros have complained about the poa annua greens at Pebble Beach for years,

Hit it closer to the hole and you'll have a better change over 72 holes of winning.[/quote]


So your saying knock them all stiff ? Well that makes sense. Why didn't I think of that ? Now back to the real world where most will have 10-15 foot birdie putts it is down to luck of the draw for rolling them in. 8 years they have had to build a putting surface for this tournament. Epic fail for that reason.
[/quote]

I agree with you in that they should be better after having 8 years to prepare. But I'd like to hear from the USGA and the super before passing judgment. Seems modern era players always find something to complain about ... I call it spoiled. In the end, the USGA may never go back to Chambers Bay.

Wonder if Hogan, Snead and Lord Byron would be complaining about the greens ?

[braincramp52]

I think the biggest complaint is the speed consistency. A lot of the players are saying the speed from one green to another is bad. All I know is that if the greens at our local muni looked and putted that bad the superintendent would be gone.

[browne11]

I would be upset if I paid $300 and had to putt on these greens. Therefore, I can't really blame them for complaining. They look awful and much closer to the $25 muni greens around me than what the U.S. Open should be played on.

[JaNelson38]

It'd be one thing if the natural weather forced these course conditions. Problem is, these course and green conditions are products if the USGA and their a**-backwards thinking on what firm/fast and a "fair test of golf" is supposed to be. There's nothing "normal" about this.

The only way changes occur is if enough players speak out. Year in year out, the USGA destroys the integrity of each course they visit by altering conditions different than what the course is designed to do. As I said in another thread, I'm frightened to see what they're gonna do to Erin Hills, a true links style course built with strategy and with really no need to touch it to host a championship event.

If you think a course is worthy of a major championship, you should be able to largely leave it alone. It looks like they're playing in a desert out there, and putt after putt yesterday afternoon looked like they were bouncing on greens that had just been aerated. And it's not just the course...having two holes alternate between par 4 and par 5? Seriously?

It's our national championship. It's embarrassing that this is our "showcase" golf event.

[ChrisNH]

The speed inconsistancy is the big issue I think. They look blotchy but they seem to roll pretty smooth.

In any event, it's like complaining that there's not the right type of sand in the bunkers or the walk between holes is too long. Petty.

Play the test for what it is and stay focused. Multi millionaires complaining that the course isn't good enough for them to play on just sounds whiney.

[Triple-Double]

How does the actual selection process work for the site of the U.S. Open? Can pretty much anyone with enough property for all the infrastructure and enough money to bribe the USGA get a U.S. Open at their course?

[Cwing]

They are also ripping #18 as a par 4. Players, announcers, former players all coming out against.

[JaNelson38]

[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1434807060' post='11792382']
The speed inconsistancy is the big issue I think. They look blotchy but they seem to roll pretty smooth.

In any event, it's like complaining that there's not the right type of sand in the bunkers or the walk between holes is too long. Petty.

Play the test for what it is and stay focused. Multi millionaires complaining that the course isn't good enough for them to play on just sounds whiney.
[/quote]

These guys work their asses off to qualify for this event. They're well within their rights to state their opinions.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

While I've found this intriguing to watch because of its uniqueness, I hope they don't come back again anytime soon... Maybe never.

[Cwing]

[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1434807060' post='11792382']
The speed inconsistancy is the big issue I think. They look blotchy but they seem to roll pretty smooth.

In any event, it's like complaining that there's not the right type of sand in the bunkers or the walk between holes is too long. Petty.

Play the test for what it is and stay focused. Multi millionaires complaining that the course isn't good enough for them to play on just sounds whiney.
[/quote]

There complaints are about the roll, not just speed. They are not consistent and the balls do not hold the line. One commented that it was like putting on broccoli and it's not just one or two guys that are complaining

[shoeman]

The greens are in horrible shape!! Would you dish out a couple hundred dollars to play??? I wouldn't want to play under those conditions! Be realistic!!!!!

[bladehunter]

[quote name='Triple-Double' timestamp='1434807074' post='11792384']How does the actual selection process work for the site of the U.S. Open? Can pretty much anyone with enough property for all the infrastructure and enough money to bribe the USGA get a U.S. Open at their course?[/quote]

It's all political I'm sure. This venue was picked or rather built because it was Pacific Northwest. It's a marketing move by the usga plain and simple.

[Cwing]

The idea is to determine the best golfer for the week. Not the luckiest golfer for the week.

Golfer hits perfect putt to center of the cup. Ball hits uneven ground and veers shapely to the right and misses. That's not championship golf. Can it happy during normal conditions due to a random spike mark, etc...? Yes, every one understands that but it should not be the norm.

[Shilgy]

[quote name='ThominOH' timestamp='1434804127' post='11792178']
I am so sick of the crying and whining about the greens at the US Open.. It's just another variable of playing that everyone has to deal with, and sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield.. Maybe the wind is calm now, but gust up to 30mph during my shot.. STUFF happens !!! This is no different then the unknown variable of going off in the morning or afternoon, as the weather changes during the day, there is always the unknown factor that you might get help or get screwed.. Now as for the greens.. ARE THEY F'ing kidding me, or have these spoiled snobs forgot about the "decades" of spike marks on the greens.. ( remember the decades of golf spikes before there were new modern soft spikes to wear? ).. How many times do we see one pro hit an errant shot 10 yards off the green and end up in a horrendous lie? While his playing partner hits a similar bad shot but ends up where the gallery has trampled down the rough and has a good lie? STUFF happens..

The media and players just need to accept it and deal with it and stop acting like spoiled babies.. Keep in mind too.. I bet there were as many putts that got a GOOD bump into the hole, when they should of actually missed it.. But that doesn't count does it? lol
[/quote]Your comment about getting a lucky bump INTO the hole would probably be true if we were playing. But the better the putter the better they want greens to roll. A friend of mine used to say he understood why I fixed pitch marks on my line but he couldn't start a putt on line anyway so he left them going for a good bump lol.

[Power13]

[quote name='ThominOH' timestamp='1434804127' post='11792178']
I am so sick of the crying and whining about the greens at the US Open.. It's just another variable of playing that everyone has to deal with, and sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield.. Maybe the wind is calm now, but gust up to 30mph during my shot.. STUFF happens !!! This is no different then the unknown variable of going off in the morning or afternoon, as the weather changes during the day, there is always the unknown factor that you might get help or get screwed.. Now as for the greens.. ARE THEY F'ing kidding me, or have these spoiled snobs forgot about the "decades" of spike marks on the greens.. ( remember the decades of golf spikes before there were new modern soft spikes to wear? ).. How many times do we see one pro hit an errant shot 10 yards off the green and end up in a horrendous lie? While his playing partner hits a similar bad shot but ends up where the gallery has trampled down the rough and has a good lie? STUFF happens..

The media and players just need to accept it and deal with it and stop acting like spoiled babies.. Keep in mind too.. I bet there were as many putts that got a GOOD bump into the hole, when they should of actually missed it.. But that doesn't count does it? lol
[/quote]

Yes, there is always an unknown / uncontrollable element, but the greens should not be one of them. They should be consistent, which they are not.

Having played the greens last year, I can tell you they are pretty poor. Staff there readily admitted they were struggling with them and there were a couple holes using temporary greens as they tried to get them under control and up to snuff. Speeds were wildly inconsistent.

[braincramp52]

[quote name='Cwing' timestamp='1434807625' post='11792436']
[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1434807060' post='11792382']
The speed inconsistancy is the big issue I think. They look blotchy but they seem to roll pretty smooth.

In any event, it's like complaining that there's not the right type of sand in the bunkers or the walk between holes is too long. Petty.

Play the test for what it is and stay focused. Multi millionaires complaining that the course isn't good enough for them to play on just sounds whiney.
[/quote]

There complaints are about the roll, not just speed. They are not consistent and the balls do not hold the line. One commented that it was like putting on broccoli and it's not just one or two guys that are complaining
[/quote]


Phil was pretty diplomatic about them saying he knew a couple of weeks ago it was going to be "interesting". Hendrik Stenson didn't hold back.

[blufblufshuv]

This vine vid of Darren Clarke putting illustrates perfectly why the players are complaining. I mean, an inch from the hole that ball is in. https://vine.co/v/eiiZ2EZLduQ