Players and Golf Channel ripping the greens this morning

[Anchor44]

[quote name='bigred90gt' timestamp='1434819376' post='11793472']
[quote name='cxx' timestamp='1434804981' post='11792242']
Does anyone really think that these greens are good? Would you want them on your course? Irregular greens are one of the worst flaws.
[/quote]

They look almost EXACTLY like the greens on my course!
[/quote]

So you pay to play goofy golf?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

[quote name='King_Slender' timestamp='1434814550' post='11793044']
Challenge: find me a year that players didn't complain about a U.S. open course.

Pinehurst was a dust bowl and too many unfair pin positions.
Merion was too tricked up.
Congressional played too easy for a bomber like Rory when it was wet.
Etc. Etc.
[/quote]

Legend has it that if one complains about Pebble Beach, he gets shamed publicly by having to walk through King's Landing naked. But, that's the exception, and your point is well taken.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='King_Slender' timestamp='1434814550' post='11793044']
Challenge: find me a year that players didn't complain about a U.S. open course.

Pinehurst was a dust bowl and too many unfair pin positions.
Merion was too tricked up.
Congressional played too easy for a bomber like Rory when it was wet.
Etc. Etc.
[/quote]

While the greens do seem to be an issue this year, you are absolutely right. There will never be a US open where a large number of players don't complain, and it doesn't get called a "Joke" multiple times. It's happened pretty much every year i can remember

[golfheaven69]

Playing a major championship on crap greens is inexcusable. Balls are bouncing all over the place.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

The leaders aren't complaining and the guys who are in the back of the pack are. I'm SHOCKED?!

 

Spieth and Stenson aren't exactly bringing up the rear.

The leaders aren't complaining and the guys who are in the back of the pack are. I'm SHOCKED?!

 

 

Again. Gotta recap... Spieth who is tied for the lead said " 18 is the dumbest hole ive ever played in my life " yesterday. And stenson who was tied for lead after day one said " it's like putting on broccoli ". No words yet from any one in the back as far as I know. Nobody is interviewing those guys. Tiger excluded of course.

[rockinar]

It's amusing how this crappy course and the goat ranch greens are trying to be passed off as "an exciting challenge".



That course sucks and the greens are a joke. It must be totally miserable for amateurs.

[chrisgilly09]

Well done nike, po is so pervasive on the west coast its near impossible to keep out due to astronomical costs, ideal temps, etc. Plenty of places ive played that bounce like chambers, it sure sucks though

[jmvargas]

....i'm still waiting for the media to interview mike davis or some other usga official about all the negative comments they have been getting on the course and specially the greens...

..but i'm not holding my breath!

[Sean2]

You know, no one forces these guys to play in this tournament. Perhaps next year they should just skip it?

[widow-maker]

There are some grasses that poa mixes ok with. Fescue isn't one of them. The greens they redid last year look to be pretty good because the poa hasn't invaded them yet.

[smoky25]

Imagine this course with really pure bent grass greens rolling a 13 on the stimp. In other words, Augusta's greens. Might actually be enjoyable to watch.

[Sean2]

Every year it seems the US Open goes through some kind of complaint iteration. Excuse the pun, but it's par for the course.

[wy3134]

oakmont next year will be complaints about the general toughness...but you wont hear guys complaining about the greens being a putt putt course.

i love an open that has the winning score a +5 or so, because of how tough it really is. but that is tough fairly to the whole field, not some who hit a crappy drive, get a good kick and end up on the green, while others hit a good drive down the middle, get a bad kick and end up way out of position...ie. #12

[Oldplayer]

I agree the greens could be better and they are bad for viewing. The color makes the ball really hard to see on TV but.......
If it is all about luck on these greens how come the guy in number 1 on the putting stats this year is leading the tournament? (and holing puts)
The guy in 3rd position in the stats (Johnson) is doing ok also.

[Splitter]

[quote name='NikeNerd' timestamp='1434817858' post='11793330']
[quote name='Buddyroo' timestamp='1434811962' post='11792838']
[quote name='hell_is_chrome' timestamp='1434808858' post='11792560']
[quote name='Buddyroo' timestamp='1434808595' post='11792530']
I wish someone would ask Mike Davis why the greens weren't treated to eliminate the Poa? I'm not an agronomist but I know Poa can be eliminated from Bermuda greens with certain treatments. For a US Open, if Poa can be controlled, it should have been... unless letting Poa grow was part of the plan to make the greens more difficult. I wouldn't put that past the USGA.
[/quote]

If it's so easy to "control" poa why hasn't Pebble Beach or frankly any of the west coast PGA TOUR courses gotten rid of their poa?
[/quote]

Do you know it is difficult to control on the west coast? If so please explain why. I don't know. I've never played on the west coast. That's why I want to hear an explanation.
[/quote]

Here is a quick little agronomy lesson that may make this subject appear clearer. Poa Annua thrives on the west coast because most of these places (Especially Pebble) never experience extremes on the temperature scale. Poa can survive freezing temps to a degree, and handle 80+ degree days with proper management. In most parts of the country, there will be days that dip down into the 20s as well as the occasional 100 degree day. Things like this will KILL Poa Annua regardless of management. Thankfully for places like Pebble and Torrey Pines, these extremes are not part of the climate. So now as we talk about removing Poa, in most parts of the country poa will die out in the late spring/early summer all by itself. In fact, Bay Hill which has bermuda greens overseeds them annually with a similar species called Poa Trivialis. It provides a beautiful green color during the tournament and dies out in March/April in the Florida heat. In the PNW, Poa thrives year round because of the temperate climate. There ARE chemicals that selectively target Poa Annua but require many applications for severely infested greens. Also, killing the Poa leaves unsightly brown patches that the bent grass would then have to fill in. Here comes another problem, the fine fescue greens at Chambers Bay exhibit very slow lateral growth meaning these brown spots would actually have to be seeded in order to fill in over a reasonable time period. These brown patches and the seeding process bring on even more problems that Id rather not discuss. A lot of courses, especially in PNW, have simply decided to go with the flow and allow the greens to be full Poa Annua, like Pebble, Torrey, Olympic, Oakmont, Riviera, etc. it would take nothing short of a complete green renovation to remove the poa completely from Chambers Bay, and don't forget those pesky seeds can travel in the wind for miles and land on your uninfested golf course and germinate. Poa is a notorious seed head producer, meaning every year without a focus on Poa control will make the problem worse until there is no fine fescue left (yes, this will eventually happen if the same practices are continued). Hope this helps understand the problem this course is facing, however, I still think they have done a poor job preparing for the Open, they have had 5 years since the 2010 US Am and an almost unlimited budget compared to most courses. It is obvious that they simply did not dedicate enough time or money to limiting poa populations
[/quote]

Thanks for taking the time to clue in guys that don't understand the issue.

I've been told by a few greens keepers that you don't "put in" poa, it puts itself in over time. You can either fight it or let it win. The problem with fighting it is constant "issues" with the greens because you can't win. Some greens are worse than others, some literally pop up with infestations overnight, etc..

The problem with letting it win is the multi-year process of essentially letting the poa "kill" the green and take it over.. I'm not sure that Chambers even had enough time to let the poa win, even if they wanted it to.

I've never understood why any west coast track tries to fight it. I can't remember playing one that was able to fully control poa...

[playa]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1434804641' post='11792220']
Yes but by that logic you want the player with the best luck to win the U.S. Open. Not the best putter this week ?! That isn't the best scenario in my opinion. These guys had 8 years to grow some grass on these greens. Thats what all the griping is about. The lack of preparedness.
[/quote]
The best putter is leading right now. I agree that a US Open shouldn't be a crap shoot, but golf by it's very nature always involves luck. Two guys miss the same fairway in the same spot, one is sitting up the other is dead. Conditions between morning and afternoon groups, that doesn't set up for a fair and even contest. As usual Chamblee is talking through his arse. His four foot part hypothetical again shows how little he understands about golf at this level, it's the sort kf thing I would expect to hear from a 20 handicap at my local club.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I dig the fact that we don't have to listen to endless anecdotes about a stupid country club in the northeast with plaques in the ground or trees with names.

[rlynham]

I think people are jumping to the wrong conclusion regarding complaints about US Open layouts. The US Open seems to get more player complaints than all of the other majors put together,by far. If the players are whiners then why aren't they whining during the other majors the way they do for the US Open?

[Oldplayer]

[quote name='Ashley Schaeffer' timestamp='1434842445' post='11795782']
I dig the fact that we don't have to listen to endless anecdotes about a stupid country club in the northeast with plaques in the ground or [b]trees with names[/b].
[/quote] LOL!!!!!!

[ZAP]

Most of the guys playing are getting paid to play. I might be mad if I was an amateur who qualified (and shelled out a wad of cash) and then had to play those greens with no return on investment monetarily.
If you are getting paid to play a sport then maybe you should just be quiet till it's over.

[Power13]

[quote name='glk' timestamp='1434813110' post='11792908']
[quote name='Power13' timestamp='1434812404' post='11792872']
[quote name='Oldboy' timestamp='1434810723' post='11792748']
I'd be pretty upset if I were a local and it seems some are .. this can't be good for drumming up interest to play this $400 track
[/quote]

Already discussed ....it is not $400.

The course and settings are spectacular. The greens....not so much.
[/quote]

$299 + 5% admissions fee and 9.4% tax Caddy fee between $80-$100. $400 is not really that much off the mark.
[/quote]

Again...already discussed. Caddies are optional. You wanna drop the coin for one, that is your choice, but not required to play CB.

Rates also drop to $275 in 3 weeks.

[twixster888]

[quote name='birdie_hunter' timestamp='1434806322' post='11792326']
What are you guys talking about? Half of the greens are horrible with 1-4 inch patches of poana covering the greens like chickenpox on small child. I don't see greens this bad at my worst local muni and neither do most WRXers.

You almost never hear any of the pros talking bad about the course. Gotta think there's something to it when so many of the big names are saying the same thing.
[/quote]


these greens are real good. they look really bad on tv but it rolls true except few of the holes. i think players are forgetting that these greens do have some grain they need to take into consideration. i played the course right after the US Amateur in 2010. they were real good i thought. its a different surface than the ole bent grass. you just have to trust it.

[cxx]

[quote name='bigred90gt' timestamp='1434819376' post='11793472']
[quote name='cxx' timestamp='1434804981' post='11792242']
Does anyone really think that these greens are good? Would you want them on your course? Irregular greens are one of the worst flaws.
[/quote]

They look almost EXACTLY like the greens on my course!
[/quote]

Well, I'm sorry about that. You have played on other surfaces though, bent or new bermuda? Nothing beats a true roll.

[Aren]

As my dad used to say; "suck it up boys and get on with it". May the best man won today (my words�)

[ThominOH]

[quote name='Power13' timestamp='1434807996' post='11792464']
[quote name='ThominOH' timestamp='1434804127' post='11792178']
I am so sick of the crying and whining about the greens at the US Open.. It's just another variable of playing that everyone has to deal with, and sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield.. Maybe the wind is calm now, but gust up to 30mph during my shot.. STUFF happens !!! This is no different then the unknown variable of going off in the morning or afternoon, as the weather changes during the day, there is always the unknown factor that you might get help or get screwed.. Now as for the greens.. ARE THEY F'ing kidding me, or have these spoiled snobs forgot about the "decades" of spike marks on the greens.. ( remember the decades of golf spikes before there were new modern soft spikes to wear? ).. How many times do we see one pro hit an errant shot 10 yards off the green and end up in a horrendous lie? While his playing partner hits a similar bad shot but ends up where the gallery has trampled down the rough and has a good lie? STUFF happens..

The media and players just need to accept it and deal with it and stop acting like spoiled babies.. Keep in mind too.. I bet there were as many putts that got a GOOD bump into the hole, when they should of actually missed it.. But that doesn't count does it? lol
[/quote]

Yes, there is always an unknown / uncontrollable element, but the greens should not be one of them. They should be consistent, which they are not.

Having played the greens last year, I can tell you they are pretty poor. Staff there readily admitted they were struggling with them and there were a couple holes using temporary greens as they tried to get them under control and up to snuff. Speeds were wildly inconsistent.
[/quote]I think you are missing the issue.. The problem isn't that condition of the greens 5 minutes after they are mowed and groomed.. They are PERFECT at that moment.. The issue is the condition of the greens as the day goes on.. The types of turf used grow differently so those that are playing later in the day will have more issues then the first group out in the day.. This logic applies to weather conditions and foot traffic, and MOST OF ALL.. divots.. We all know that later groups will have a greater chance of finding a bad lie in a divot, which can effect the final outcome of who wins, or loses..

The fact is.. STUFF HAPPENS.. It's illogical to argue one area of bad luck, but excuse other areas as "part of the game"..