I have a question for everybody

[iteachgolf]

In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

 

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

 

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

 

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

 

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.

 

 

The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.

[goatbarn]

10%, 40%, 30%, 20%

[flipmode]

I would agree with goatbarn.

[PepsiDuck]

A golf lesson will have different priorities and %'s than a golf school; and presuming that a golf lesson is about an hour long while a golf school is a multi-hour/multi-day intensive experience, you can't treat them the same in terms of time spent on each category.

[u]Golf Lesson[/u]:

(1) Mechanics instruction: spend time here but not too much time (20-25%)

- You don't want to go overboard here going over too many things "wrong" or trying to reveal and fix too many things. Find one or two issues, explain the underlying cause and why it creates the various effects.

(2) Implementation of change: majority of time spent here (50-60%)

- This is what students want...now you've told me what is wrong, so how do I fix it on my own practice time, whether it be with feels, intents, drills, etc.? Feedback is necessary for each of the feels, intents, drills you introduce so we know what works and what doesn't before we leave the lesson.

(3) Supervised practice: least amount of time (10-15%)

- This is why a series of lessons is best. The supervision should occur over a period of time where we can go back on our own and figure things out. No need for a student to spend money for your time watching him practice for hours.

[u]Golf School[/u]:

Similar percentages for mechanics discussion, with less time spent on implementation and more time spent on supervised practice, especially when you have larger groups in the school. For on-course time, I'd like to see about 30% time devoted to course management and learning how to play the game with the sh*tty swing that I have. Of course, it also depends on the skill level of your students. The higher the overall skill level, the more time spent on-course.


My views are based on a series of lessons taken with Monte over about a year and a half, and each time I saw him, this was the approximate breakdown. Hope it hits the mark on what you were looking for...

[mschu24]

I would say at least 75% of the lesson should be spent on 2. and 3 with the majority of that on 2.

To me, 2. is the most important thing for helping the student actually make a substantial change to his golf game.

If the instructor is good at his job 3. shouldn't take too long. Good teachers are great at explaining what the student needs to hear to make the necessary change. In other words great instructors handle most of 3. in 2. by providing clear and specific "feels" and intentions.

[mikpga]

[i]Game Evaluation...[/i]

[i]Prioritizing Areas...[/i]

[i]Prescription...[/i]

[i]Practice Prescription...[/i]

[i]Supervised Practice...[/i]

[i]Transition to Course...[/i]

I think the first four that I list are the four most important...

[b]The student should be able to follow the Practice Prescription on his/her own...[/b]

[Schnee]

1. 10%- for a good teacher like you it shouldn't take long
2. 40% making the change and doing it on your own is the toughest part I'd say.
3. 20% important but shouldn't be over done. I don't like to pay to watch someone have me hit balls forever. However some supervised practice is definitely important to make sure I'm doing it right.
4 . 30%- very hard to take changes to the course.

[MonteScheinblum]

In an hour lesson, number one takes almost no time. Quite literally as little as a minute or two and not more than 5.

Number two, as long as it takes for an understanding to develop between myself and the client.

Number three is the rest of the time.

1. 10% or less
2. Hopefully not more than 20-30%
3. Hopefully 50% or more.


4. In my perfect world, at least every other lesson would be on course. Since that's not feasible....as often as possible. Those who have attended my 3 day clinics, most agree on course is the best of the 3 days.

[pmcuk]

1. 5%
2. 5%
3. 50%
4. 40% - pitching, chipping and bunker on a short game area.

[lv_2_hack]

1. 10%
2. 20%
3. 50%
4. 20%

IMO the meat and potatoes of the lesson are in #3. Most good instructors don't need much time to diagnose. It can take time to make sure the player understands but it still shouldn't take longer than 5-10 minutes. 2 and 3 will often blend together where discussion and implementation will be taking place simultaneously.

Obviously, golf schools are the best way to integrate 4. Hard to do in the 1-2 hour setting, especially if the student required big changes.

The best lessons are the ones that only require a small tweak that can be fixed in 10-15 minutes and the rest of the lesson can be spent on the golf course.

[JW223]

Lesson: 20% 20% 60%
School: 10% 10% 30% 50%

Those percentages would be based on the assumption that the instructor has somehow communicated what his/her swing philosophy is prior to the first lesson. With instructors like Dan or Monte, you know exactly what you are getting before you walk in the door thanks to GolfWRX, YouTube, personal websites, etc. I have seen them both in person and there were no surprises or disappointments. Perhaps a little off topic, but I believe the more transparency an instructor provides into their process, the better the long-term buy-in by students.

That said, if I was walking into a lesson a little more blindly due to lack of information or not doing my homework, the percentages above for my very first lesson would actually be flipped to 40% 40% 20%. I would want to know what the long-term path was before setting out to make a series of changes.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.

[TB07]

15%
20%
50%
15%

If it was my personal preference I wouldn't choose any course time and go... 15/20% 25% 55/60%.

Dan,
Let me pose the same question back at you. What would be your preference ?

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want

[triplebogeyblues]

Assuming it is just a lesson and no clinic/course time is involved, I say 5%, 35%, 60%. The student spends far more time away from the teacher than with them, so the most important thing to me is knowing I am practicing the necessary changes/drills correctly.

I guess it's the old adage, "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect".

[RRFireblade]

Honeslty. I'm not sure how one could generalize.

I'm not instructor but I'd need to know what the students goals and expectations are first. Then the lesson plan would have to tailor those wants/needs/desires.

Ex: Wants to go pro - Could be a swing overhaul, start from scratch kinda thing... Would be alot of #1 & #2 , heavy on #3 No rush to #4
Jsut wants to drop a few strokes - Could be light on #1, #2 and #4 and heavy on #3
Wants to gain more competitve focus - Heavy on #4 , light on the others.

Etc...

Plus every student is different. Some pick up mechanicals fast and you can blast right through that stuff and some struggle on the rest....some just the opposite.

I'm not sure the is one 'answer' to this question.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[juststeve]

I suspect it would vary greatly from student to student holding the teacher as a constant.

Steve

[Golfah]

I'm going to lean further to #1 than most others so far. I don't learn unless I see and understand the exact cause and effect of what I am doing wrong. Only when I completely understand why the incorrect move is having a negative effect, I can have lasting improvement. I am also completely blind to my own pattern unless someone points it out.

If I don't understand how I am going wrong and someone just tells me to do something else, when the problem inevitably comes back, I can't recognize and self-correct.

I also like to go away and work out things on my own, so my breakdown would be:

#1: 20%
#2: 50%
#3: 30% or less at the actual lesson, quick check-ups over a longer period of time would be more effective than standing over me for a long time as I work things out. The drift over time is what kills my long-term learning.

#4: never had a clinic

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440621656' post='12213898']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't agree with you its that its not applicable in this case. Student said not during lesson but afterwards that discussing things like block vs random practice, how much time to practice, how to structure the practice, mindset about practice (slow swings to create awareness vs trying to make changes at full speed) etc was "irrelevant and complete waste of time". Said entire 12 hours should have been on swing mechanics. The point of thread was to see others opinions and it certainly isn't the same for everyone, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

For the record I spend 10-25% of time on 1, 25-40% on 2, 25-30% on 3 and, 25-30% on 4. Varies with lots of factors but the how and why is far more important than the what and takes much longer.

[copperjeff]

I think that the average person has no clue on how to practice properly. I wouldn't know going into a lesson how different types of practice could effect the implementation of the lesson. I would expect a good teacher to callable my preconceived notions. After all, if what I was doing worked, why would I be getting a lesson?

To answer the original question, I would expect a few minutes to diagnose. Then most of the remaining time going over drills, ways to make sure they are implemented properly and showing how to ingrain the new movement (ie: how to practice)

Then some time spent on observation to make sure the prescribed drills and practicing are done correctly, I'd say maybe 25% of the total time.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440623184' post='12214056']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440621656' post='12213898']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't agree with you its that its not applicable in this case. Student said not during lesson but afterwards that discussing things like block vs random practice, how much time to practice, how to structure the practice, mindset about practice (slow swings to create awareness vs trying to make changes at full speed) etc was "irrelevant and complete waste of time". Said entire 12 hours should have been on swing mechanics. The point of thread was to see others opinions and it certainly isn't the same for everyone, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

For the record I spend 10-25% of time on 1, 25-40% on 2, 25-30% on 3 and, 25-30% on 4. Varies with lots of factors but the how and why is far more important than the what and takes much longer.
[/quote]

It was my mistake, I had a different definition of school and assumed there would be multiple participants. In general, I would disagree with what that student said. In learning coordinated movements, it is very important to discuss how practice should take place. However, there may be students out there who already have an approach that works for them and they need to get a handle on the content first and then process/practice it in their own way later. I've never encountered an individual who could productively engage with content knowledge only for 12 hours in a day.

[TB07]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440623184' post='12214056']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440621656' post='12213898']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't agree with you its that its not applicable in this case. Student said not during lesson but afterwards that discussing things like block vs random practice, how much time to practice, how to structure the practice, mindset about practice (slow swings to create awareness vs trying to make changes at full speed) etc was "irrelevant and complete waste of time". Said entire 12 hours should have been on swing mechanics. The point of thread was to see others opinions and it certainly isn't the same for everyone, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

For the record I spend 10-25% of time on 1, 25-40% on 2, 25-30% on 3 and, 25-30% on 4. Varies with lots of factors but the how and why is far more important than the what and takes much longer.
[/quote]

How did you respond to the student once they said that? Was it a first time student?

[airjammer]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440623184' post='12214056']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440621656' post='12213898']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440614591' post='12213100']
In a golf lesson/school how much time should be spent in % on each category below.

1. Actual swing mechanics instruction- meaning what's wrong with the swing. Anything about implementing the changes, drills, etc doesn't count. Strictly diagnosis and the explanation of the diagnosis.

2. Discussion on how to implement the change. So this would cover drills, what to practice, how to practice it properly, the correct mindset and expectations to have when practicing and similar. Going over types of practice, such as random vs block, and how much time and how often you should practice.

3. Supervised practice. So this would cover the teacher observing the student actually making the changes and filming then. Providing input on what could be done better, what was good, bad, whether needs to more or less of something etc. No new ideas are added here but different feels and images may be used to help further implement and ingrain the new mechanics learned in number 1

4. And for a golf school, on course time. This is spent further supervising the changes and providing input while also cover course management, chipping, pitching, putting, wedge play etc.


The only one where NEW swing mechanics are introduced is #1. All the rest are about implementing the changes and how to play and get better at the game of golf. Everyone has different ideas of what should happen and priorities. I just wanna see where people think time is best spent.
[/quote]

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't agree with you its that its not applicable in this case. Student said not during lesson but afterwards that discussing things like block vs random practice, how much time to practice, how to structure the practice, mindset about practice (slow swings to create awareness vs trying to make changes at full speed) etc was "irrelevant and complete waste of time". Said entire 12 hours should have been on swing mechanics. The point of thread was to see others opinions and it certainly isn't the same for everyone, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

For the record I spend 10-25% of time on 1, 25-40% on 2, 25-30% on 3 and, 25-30% on 4. Varies with lots of factors but the how and why is far more important than the what and takes much longer.
[/quote]

I going to say that I agree with the student on this one. Not because he is right but that is what he wanted. Not knowing anything about him, I would guess he is type A. Sounds like he wanted to know his swing faults and didn't want to do anything but work on changing those.

When I went to see Iteach I made the mistake in making in a buddy golf trip. Over the three days I learned a lot but playing everyday after the 4 hour lesson hindered my progress...nobody wants to play like crap even if they are going thru a swing change.

[TB07]

Disagree with you there, AirJammer. If students got what they thought they wanted it would be bad for the students and the instructors.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1440629063' post='12214510']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440623184' post='12214056']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440621656' post='12213898']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']


Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't agree with you its that its not applicable in this case. Student said not during lesson but afterwards that discussing things like block vs random practice, how much time to practice, how to structure the practice, mindset about practice (slow swings to create awareness vs trying to make changes at full speed) etc was "irrelevant and complete waste of time". Said entire 12 hours should have been on swing mechanics. The point of thread was to see others opinions and it certainly isn't the same for everyone, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

For the record I spend 10-25% of time on 1, 25-40% on 2, 25-30% on 3 and, 25-30% on 4. Varies with lots of factors but the how and why is far more important than the what and takes much longer.
[/quote]

How did you respond to the student once they said that? Was it a first time student?
[/quote]

Was 2 people who came together. One had never taken lessons and the other has been playing for 12 months or so and never had lessons. The one individual emailed 2 days after they left to say he was disappointed. I offered him a refund of the value he felt like he didn't receive. Obviously I didn't have to do anything but rather not deal with it. There is no way I'd ever meet his expectations and easier to never have to deal with it. The questions were to gauge what people thought was practical, whether I agreed or not. I have nearly 100 videos I filmed over a day and a half including nearly every full swing during the 9 holes they played but I wasn't "engaged or teaching" except for the 3 hours of actual mechanical info given. None of the course time or supervised practice or discussion how to practice counted as "teaching"

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='airjammer' timestamp='1440630478' post='12214612']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440623184' post='12214056']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440621656' post='12213898']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1440619065' post='12213602']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440618003' post='12213474']

Why not ask the group how they want the time to be spent? I've done clinics and masterclasses in music, and while I do have some core content that I include in every session, I do ask participants what else they want to know about. When they show up, the sign in process requires them to write down one "big" question they wanted answered during the presentation, and I would take that list with me to discuss during the introductions and then address everything I could during the presentation.
[/quote]

It wasn't a "group". And I don't ask because most people don't know what they need and how to get better. Many think all 1 is better than any 2 and 3. I tell students what they need to hear and what's in their best interest. If that matches what they want to hear is a different story all together but I won't overload someone with info and spend no time implementing it even if that's what they think they want
[/quote]

I used to think that way too. Good luck with whatever you decide.
[/quote]

It's not that I don't agree with you its that its not applicable in this case. Student said not during lesson but afterwards that discussing things like block vs random practice, how much time to practice, how to structure the practice, mindset about practice (slow swings to create awareness vs trying to make changes at full speed) etc was "irrelevant and complete waste of time". Said entire 12 hours should have been on swing mechanics. The point of thread was to see others opinions and it certainly isn't the same for everyone, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

For the record I spend 10-25% of time on 1, 25-40% on 2, 25-30% on 3 and, 25-30% on 4. Varies with lots of factors but the how and why is far more important than the what and takes much longer.
[/quote]

I going to say that I agree with the student on this one. Not because he is right but that is what he wanted. Not knowing anything about him, I would guess he is type A. Sounds like he wanted to know his swing faults and didn't want to do anything but work on changing those.

When I went to see Iteach I made the mistake in making in a buddy golf trip. Over the three days I learned a lot but playing everyday after the 4 hour lesson hindered my progress...nobody wants to play like crap even if they are going thru a swing change.
[/quote]

Says on my site clearly will cover all aspects of the game. We certainly worked on the swing faults. And course time wasn't playing. I didn't hit a shot and we weren't keeping score. Hitting 2-3 balls a hole and chipping all around the green. It was practicing on the course. So a driving range but with some sense of their being an outcome. You can have the opinion that student is always right but they are paying for my input and I refuse to overload someone with info and make them worse.

[airjammer]

[quote name='airjammer' timestamp='1440631402' post='12214690']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1440630858' post='12214642']
Disagree with you there, AirJammer. If students got what they thought they wanted it would be bad for the students and the instructors.
[/quote]

I agree with you but I was trying to say is that there probably should have been a little communication on both parties on what was going or expected to happen during the time there. They should have spoken up way before they finished.
[/quote]

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1440630858' post='12214642']
Disagree with you there, AirJammer. If students got what they thought they wanted it would be bad for the students and the instructors.
[/quote]

That hasn't been my experience. While true some of the time, it is hardly generalizable.

[TB07]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1440631695' post='12214718']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1440630858' post='12214642']
Disagree with you there, AirJammer. If students got what they thought they wanted it would be bad for the students and the instructors.
[/quote]

That hasn't been my experience. While true some of the time, it is hardly generalizable.
[/quote]

If instructors listen to a student in terms of what they think needs to be fixed, and how they think they should fix it, the instructor would be a 15 handicap at teaching golf. I believe in listening to the students concerns, and what they think, but ultimately the instructor makes the decision on what's best. Students are paying for expert advice on how to get better. Obviously what the students have been doing isn't working. ESPECIALLY beginners or higher handicaps.