Justin rose, left arm downswing

[MK7Golf21]

Saw this today, isn't this the same thing Sergio Garcia was talking about when he said he feels he pulls a chain straight down?

 

Justin says only thing he feels is left arm staying tight against chest and dropping straight down with closed shoulders. I've seen hunter practicing same thing for all his practice swings. They say rotation will bring arms out. Thoughts?

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

Here is o hair doing same thing, seems Sean teaches most of his players this

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlXQBuwW-_s

[PepsiDuck]

Similar to Monte's left arm off chest though I think Monte advocates more out and forward than straight down as the article seems to suggest...

[Golf nerd]

Would say they all try to speed up their arms to keep them in synch with body rotation. Most better folks have trouble with body moving ahead and arms try to catch up. How much out or in is determined by the individual swing idea/ball flight.

[HitBall]

Thanks for posting that article RedJeep. I was doing some camera work in my house and I got my backswing looking better, but handpath is definitely something I have neglected in the past. This article helps reiterate what Dan Carraher told me to start doing in an online lesson i.e. needing my arms/hands to work more in. Thanks for posting

[360_CS]

I thought Garcia said he "pulls the chain" with his right arm/hand.

[i*windows]

nice find. I strike the ball the best when I feel like my back is to the target through impact, its obviously not, just how it feels to me. If my ball striking goes wonky I always try to get back to this feeling of back to target.

[TB07]

Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

Yea I know with the hands moving straight down the shaft doesnt shallow as much but you have more room to hit the ball on the inside of it. Alot of times, when shallowing correctly and hands moving out the clubshaft will shallow more and clubhead move more out to in through impact.

I think its interesting, seems justin, ohair and hunter have this feeling, which is basically all Seans players. Its very similar to what Sergio does, not sure if I would use it though, Ive tried the feeling in the past and Im able to really hit from the inside but not really a feel Id want to use all the time. I don't fully understand why he would want all his players to do this.

[dbleag]

Sergio must be using the old fashioned toilet with the tank above - the chain releases the flush-water by gravity.

Those Spaniards.

[sheldonjhacker]

do you guys feel that the swing is more pulling with left hand/side...or pushing with right hand/side ?

[PepsiDuck]

[quote name='sheldonjhacker' timestamp='1441722862' post='12280724']
do you guys feel that the swing is more pulling with left hand/side...or pushing with right hand/side ?
[/quote]

I think both intents achieve the same end state. It's dependent on what feels better for you and gets you there more consistently. Left arm off chest = right elbow leads = etc.

[TB07]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1441722460' post='12280674']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

Yea I know with the hands moving straight down the shaft doesnt shallow as much but you have more room to hit the ball on the inside of it. Alot of times, when shallowing correctly and hands moving out the clubshaft will shallow more and clubhead move more out to in through impact.

I think its interesting, seems justin, ohair and hunter have this feeling, which is basically all Seans players. Its very similar to what Sergio does, not sure if I would use it though, Ive tried the feeling in the past and Im able to really hit from the inside but not really a feel Id want to use all the time. I don't fully understand why he would want all his players to do this.
[/quote]

The move is designed to keep the CLUBHEAD in front of the player and swing hard left. So it's an attempt to be less inside.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441724471' post='12280908']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1441722460' post='12280674']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

Yea I know with the hands moving straight down the shaft doesnt shallow as much but you have more room to hit the ball on the inside of it. Alot of times, when shallowing correctly and hands moving out the clubshaft will shallow more and clubhead move more out to in through impact.

I think its interesting, seems justin, ohair and hunter have this feeling, which is basically all Seans players. Its very similar to what Sergio does, not sure if I would use it though, Ive tried the feeling in the past and Im able to really hit from the inside but not really a feel Id want to use all the time. I don't fully understand why he would want all his players to do this.
[/quote]

The move is designed to keep the CLUBHEAD in front of the player and swing hard left. So it's an [b]attempt to be less inside[/b].
[/quote]

not according to Justin in this article, he says it allows him to hit from inside and not have to stand up through shot but I get what you are saying. I always thought o hair did it too much and couldnt hit fades anymore

[MK7Golf21]

maybe iteach can give his thoughts, I know he was around foley for a bit to learn from or something

[ej002]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

This makes no sense.

[TB07]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441729244' post='12281366']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

This makes no sense.
[/quote]

Club head out as in not stuck behind, and exiting left. When the hands work out the shaft shallows and club head releases more down down the line versus left.

[TB07]

When he says "inside" in the article I would think he's talking about before impact, especially early downswig. His goal, as he has said before, is to swing more left through impact.

[ej002]

You do realize realize that exiting left has little to do with the p5 alignment? That is why VJ is CP but still looks flippy, while guys like Mahan who is CF could still have the slicefixer "leveraged" release look. BTW, Mahan doesn't shift out and still shallows.

[duffer888]

[quote name='sheldonjhacker' timestamp='1441722862' post='12280724']
do you guys feel that the swing is more pulling with left hand/side...or pushing with right hand/side ?
[/quote]

For the life of me, I cannot hit with the right side. My ball striking goes to complete crap when I start using too much right hand/side. Much better and more consistent with left hand/side, but it doesn't 'feel' powerful, if you know what I mean.

[GaryRead]

I think this move steepens the shaft and throws the club head out more and in front of the golfer so the shaft points more towards the torso than the target

[TB07]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441730571' post='12281498']
You do realize realize that exiting left has little to do with the p5 alignment? That is why VJ is CP but still looks flippy, while guys like Mahan who is CF could still have the slicefixer "leveraged" release look. BTW, Mahan doesn't shift out and still shallows.
[/quote]

What I am saying is everything Rose is doing is designed to have more shaft lean, and exit more left to stabilize the club face. He's trying to avoid chasing down the line with a flippy release.

[ej002]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441731798' post='12281644']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441730571' post='12281498']
You do realize realize that exiting left has little to do with the p5 alignment? That is why VJ is CP but still looks flippy, while guys like Mahan who is CF could still have the slicefixer "leveraged" release look. BTW, Mahan doesn't shift out and still shallows.
[/quote]

What I am saying is everything Rose is doing is designed to have more shaft lean, and exit more left to stabilize the club face. He's trying to avoid chasing down the line with a flippy release.
[/quote]

I highly doubt he is interested in more shaft lien, but that is moving goal posts.

I think you are a bit confused here. You basically said that he is shifting out in an effort to swing more left. That is exactly what Tiger was doing with his goofy over the top practice move, which consequently gave him excess shaft lien and made him steep. Justin explains that he is doing the complete opposite. It is obvious from his comments about the shoulder and arm sequencing. I also doubt that the club head would kick out with what Justin is describing. It is possible, but again that is an entirely different piece that he would have to introduce.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441729471' post='12281390']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441729244' post='12281366']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

This makes no sense.
[/quote]

Club head out as in not stuck behind, and exiting left. When the hands work out the shaft shallows and club head releases more down down the line versus left.
[/quote]

Doesn't this depend on when the hands work out ? Snead/Hogan - hands out, club shallowing, release left.

[chigolfer1]

I think you guys are confusing the feel he uses with what actually happens in his swing. He even says in the article that he feels like his arm is tight against body and right elbow jabbing him - the latter being a shallowing move - but, in reality, it doesn't actually happen because "rotational force brings my arms and club in front of me." For an OTTr like myself that doesn't even have to be OTT but never realized how far behind me the arms feel compared to my old move, its exactly the "feel" I need.

I do wonder though what Iteach thinks about this since pinning the left arm so to speak is what he's trying to get most people out of doing.



[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1441722460' post='12280674']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441711887' post='12279806']
Arms staying tight and dropping straight down is to get the club kicking out, and moving left. It's the opposite of trying to shallow the shaft.
[/quote]

Yea I know with the hands moving straight down the shaft doesnt shallow as much but you have more room to hit the ball on the inside of it. Alot of times, when shallowing correctly and hands moving out the clubshaft will shallow more and clubhead move more out to in through impact.

I think its interesting, seems justin, ohair and hunter have this feeling, which is basically all Seans players. Its very similar to what Sergio does, not sure if I would use it though, Ive tried the feeling in the past and Im able to really hit from the inside but not really a feel Id want to use all the time. I don't fully understand why he would want all his players to do this.
[/quote]

[sheldonjhacker]

[quote name='duffer888' timestamp='1441731159' post='12281576']
[quote name='sheldonjhacker' timestamp='1441722862' post='12280724']
do you guys feel that the swing is more pulling with left hand/side...or pushing with right hand/side ?
[/quote]

For the life of me, I cannot hit with the right side. My ball striking goes to complete crap when I start using too much right hand/side. Much better and more consistent with left hand/side, but it doesn't 'feel' powerful, if you know what I mean.
[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean. Left side pulling feels softer and less powerful, but smoother and more accurate (better sweet spot contact) and my body feels like it is sequencing the swing better. Pro explains it as physics...a car pulls a trailer for control...it doesn't push it. BUT....I'm right handed...does this mean that my swing should be more right hand/side driven?

[PepsiDuck]

So let's say someone goes too much down and not enough out. What's the miss...?

[TB07]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441732639' post='12281726']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441731798' post='12281644']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1441730571' post='12281498']
You do realize realize that exiting left has little to do with the p5 alignment? That is why VJ is CP but still looks flippy, while guys like Mahan who is CF could still have the slicefixer "leveraged" release look. BTW, Mahan doesn't shift out and still shallows.
[/quote]

What I am saying is everything Rose is doing is designed to have more shaft lean, and exit more left to stabilize the club face. He's trying to avoid chasing down the line with a flippy release.
[/quote]

I highly doubt he is interested in more shaft lien, but that is moving goal posts.

I think you are a bit confused here. You basically said that he is shifting out in an effort to swing more left. That is exactly what Tiger was doing with his goofy over the top practice move, which consequently gave him excess shaft lien and made him steep. Justin explains that he is doing the complete opposite. It is obvious from his comments about the shoulder and arm sequencing. I also doubt that the club head would kick out with what Justin is describing. It is possible, but again that is an entirely different piece that he would have to introduce.
[/quote]

I'm not confused. The problem with this discussion is that it all depends when each move occurs. If you don't define when it's occurring almost any scenario can work. I don't really have any goal posts to move. He does say he's doing the opposite of what Tiger did, but I've seen him practice this in person and its not that different. When Rose over does it he hits a pull just like Tiger did. Here is Rose discussing it himself. You can skip to 10:15 and again around 6:15.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLvSkoUBfGM

[TB07]

PS

Pretty sure he talks about more shaft lean in there somewhere. Bonus points for whoever can find that.

PS

Pretty sure he talks about more shaft lean in there somewhere. Bonus points for whoever can find that.

[ej002]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1441736107' post='12281976']
I'm not confused. [b]The problem with this discussion is that it all depends when each move occurs.[/b] If you don't define when it's occurring almost any scenario can work. I don't really have any goal posts to move. He does say he's doing the opposite of what Tiger did, but I've seen him practice this in person and its not that different. When Rose over does it he hits a pull just like Tiger did. Here is Rose discussing it himself. You can skip to 10:15 and again around 6:15.

[url="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLvSkoUBfGM"]https://m.youtube.co...h?v=QLvSkoUBfGM[/url]
[/quote]

The timing is not a problem for this particular discussion, at least not for people that actually read the snippet of the article. The article clearly states that the move happens before the right shoulder comes out or down. Rose says he feels it when his "shoulders are closed."

The video you posted is a bit different than what he wrote but further illustrates that difference from the Tiger move. Tiger shifted waaay out and over, forcing him to then come down and around which steepened the club. Rose is going way down first then rotating. The moves couldn't be any different. In fact they are complete opposites resulting in opposite alignments.

Rose could hit pulls from there also, but for different reasons. Like the face being obscenely shut (maybe he was over bowing), he could rolls' #3 too early thus steeping the club, or if he screws up the sequencing and his shoulders rotate first before he tries to come down he could snipe it.