Thomas Pieters Doesn't Look at the Ball

[chigolfer1]

I have never heard a pro say this. Yes, I know its something that's been suggested for ball bound people and you've heard look at a blade of grass, etc. but Thomas comes right out and says "I have never looked at the ball and when I do I chunk it." The interviewer seems a little incredulous.

 

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golfing-world-big-interview-thomas-pieters-0/

 

 

[BenHoganSlam1953]

It is hard to tell from the video, but from what I saw he is referring to looking beyond the ball or he hits fat shots. I suspect when he looks at the ball he is also lowering his chin and thus causing fat shots from a bad setup restricting his shoulder rotation. I'll have to remember it too as I suffer from fat shots on all clubs and my last instructor mentioned my chin is low and too look out above the ball to compensate - which I often forget to do on the course.

[MMB1500]

I wasn't looking at the ball either. I was looking at Anna.

[DaveLeeNC]

I would guess that if you have been looking 'somewhere' for a long time, and suddenly move that spot backward (for example), you would have a tendency to hit it fat until you readjust. After that when you start 'looking forward' again, you will probably hit it thin for a while.

I believe that Peter Kostis recommends looking ahead of the ball during the swing.

dave

[blehnhard]

I think for all good players, the ball is in their field of vision, but is not the focus of their attention.

[deathbymuffin]

The only way I can hit decent short game shots is to sort of intentionally blur my vision and have my mind's eye focusing on the hole itself. If I do this, the body will naturally produce a very good shot. As soon as I become ball bound the chunks and shanks pop up.

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='blehnhard' timestamp='1446691388' post='12554702']
I think for all good players, the ball is in their field of vision, but is not the focus of their attention.
[/quote]That is definitely not the case. Ben Hogan said the ball wasn't just his focus, but a dimple on the ball.

FWIW, I yip putts when I focus on the ball. I need to pick a spot to roll it over out in front of the ball. I work on contact without looking at the ball a lot.

I've tried it with full shots. I'm somewhat proficient at it, but I don't normally have a problem with contact anyway.

[chigolfer1]

And now on Senior Tour Learning Center on TGC, Hale Irwin says he closes his eyes when he putts. These guys are a lot more ball bound than I realized. Interestingly enough, putting is the one thing I can do where I have zero ball bound issues. However, put me behind even a little chip with a wedge and I can flinch. I really need to come up with a system to stick to whether it be a blade of grass, blur vision, or whatever.

[jdb523]

There was an article in one of the golf magazines some years back about getting ball-bound and having yips. I think it was by Hank Haney. He said that it got so bad for him he had to focus on the bill of his cap when he hit his driver. Over the years I've had occasional issues and found that looking at a spot in front of the ball is helpful for irons and fairway woods. I also found that looking at a spot about six inches behind the ball works for driver. For putting, I've looked at the hole (ala Speith) and at my wrists. The only area I've never had issues with is chipping and pitching (yet).

[Shilgy]

[quote name='jdb523' timestamp='1446747387' post='12557318']
There was an article in one of the golf magazines some years back about getting ball-bound and having yips. I think it was by Hank Haney. He said that it got so bad for him he had to focus on the bill of his cap when he hit his driver. Over the years I've had occasional issues and found that looking at a spot in front of the ball is helpful for irons and fairway woods. I also found that looking at a spot about six inches behind the ball works for driver. For putting, I've looked at the hole (ala Speith) and at my wrists. The only area I've never had issues with is chipping and pitching (yet).
[/quote]I have tried the six inches behind the ball for tee shots as well and it helps me. I tend to get steep and with the focus behind the ball I get flatter or even somewhat up as the swing tends to bottom out at the spot of focus.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

has anyone tried shutting one eye to keep from moving head ahead of ball? had a bad habit of moving forward instead of keeping head behind ball at impact, so practiced wedge shots with right eye closed. if i moved forward lost vision of the ball. seems to have helped.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1446681634' post='12553932']
I have never heard a pro say this. Yes, I know its something that's been suggested for ball bound people and you've heard look at a blade of grass, etc. but Thomas comes right out and says "I have never looked at the ball and when I do I chunk it." The interviewer seems a little incredulous.


[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golfing-world-big-interview-thomas-pieters-0/"]http://www.golfchann...omas-pieters-0/[/url]
[/quote]

I have taught all of my students since 1993 to deliberately ignore the ball and to never look at it directly. To me, this is fundamental, since it is not just "some" golfers who are "ball-bound" but virtually all golfers struggle with that issue to varying degrees. Golf is not a hand-eye coordination sport since the ball is stationary. Now if your mechanics and timing and balance are poor, then of course you will need to focus on the ball and use hand-eye. But good luck with that! I have taught pro baseball players who found it more difficult to hit the stationary golf ball using hand-eye manipulation than they did hitting a 95mph fastball. Lots of reasons for why that is so....

[b.helts]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1446751578' post='12557584']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1446681634' post='12553932']
I have never heard a pro say this. Yes, I know its something that's been suggested for ball bound people and you've heard look at a blade of grass, etc. but Thomas comes right out and says "I have never looked at the ball and when I do I chunk it." The interviewer seems a little incredulous.


[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golfing-world-big-interview-thomas-pieters-0/"]http://www.golfchann...omas-pieters-0/[/url]
[/quote]

I have taught all of my students since 1993 to deliberately ignore the ball and to never look at it directly. To me, this is fundamental, since it is not just "some" golfers who are "ball-bound" but virtually all golfers struggle with that issue to varying degrees. Golf is not a hand-eye coordination sport since the ball is stationary. Now if your mechanics and timing and balance are poor, then of course you will need to focus on the ball and use hand-eye. But good luck with that! I have taught pro baseball players who found it more difficult to hit the stationary golf ball using hand-eye manipulation than they did hitting a 95mph fastball. Lots of reasons for why that is so....
[/quote]

Hi Jim,
How do you teach someone to not look at the ball? I've been playing a long time and if you asked me what I look at when I swing I honestly couldn't tell you. I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.
Thanks

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='b.helts' timestamp='1446751900' post='12557610']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1446751578' post='12557584']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1446681634' post='12553932']
I have never heard a pro say this. Yes, I know its something that's been suggested for ball bound people and you've heard look at a blade of grass, etc. but Thomas comes right out and says "I have never looked at the ball and when I do I chunk it." The interviewer seems a little incredulous.


[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/media/golfing-world-big-interview-thomas-pieters-0/"]http://www.golfchann...omas-pieters-0/[/url]
[/quote]

I have taught all of my students since 1993 to deliberately ignore the ball and to never look at it directly. To me, this is fundamental, since it is not just "some" golfers who are "ball-bound" but virtually all golfers struggle with that issue to varying degrees. Golf is not a hand-eye coordination sport since the ball is stationary. Now if your mechanics and timing and balance are poor, then of course you will need to focus on the ball and use hand-eye. But good luck with that! I have taught pro baseball players who found it more difficult to hit the stationary golf ball using hand-eye manipulation than they did hitting a 95mph fastball. Lots of reasons for why that is so....
[/quote]

Hi Jim,
How do you teach someone to not look at the ball? I've been playing a long time and if you asked me what I look at when I swing I honestly couldn't tell you. I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.
Thanks
[/quote]

First, there needs to be a shift in understanding away from "golf is a hit the ball with the clubhead sport" to "golf is a hit the target with the ball sport", ie accepting the premise that hand-eye is not needed or even desired. It leads to flinches and sometimes even the yips. Static or non-athletic hand-eye is similar to threading a needle, ie it leads to the Steering Impulse.

Second, where to focus your gaze, ie your foveal or focal point (narrow focus) vision. It is a simple choice where you gaze. On the ball directly leads to becoming ball-bound....so dont look there!

Third, where to focus your mind during the swing. Also a choice.

[MMB1500]

^ Jim, interesting stuff as always.

If one is not looking at the ball, do you recommend looking at the same place relative to the ball every time, for example two inches ahead? Also, would there be any issues if a player wasn't consistent in their application of where they were looking on every shot?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='WolfWRX' timestamp='1446769232' post='12558842']
^ Jim, interesting stuff as always.

If one is not looking at the ball, do you recommend looking at the same place relative to the ball every time, for example two inches ahead? Also, would there be any issues if a player wasn't consistent in their application of where they were looking on every shot?
[/quote]
\


It depends. In my e-book, I talk about and there is an illustration about how you can use different "gaze points" or "aim points" depending on club length, ie further away from ball with longer clubs, eg., 4-6 inches with a driver, and an inch with a wedge. And you can look at a spot outside the target line as well if you suffer from out to in path issues. Further away from ball delays your release - or at least it tends to do that. Hit Impulse is normally stronger with longer clubs, so that is the reasoning for this.

But for some folks that is too complicated, and in that case just pick a blade of grass always the same distance in front of the ball - around three inches is a happy medium.

I call this "locking down the visual" and it helps to quiet the mind so that it can engage 100% with your chosen mental focal point.

Putting and short game shots you can use a different spot than long game.

A lot of my students do well with chipping with a spot a half inch in front of the ball.

And you can look at the hole while putting.

[MMB1500]

Thanks Jim. Definitely something to work on. I've actually had some success with it in the past, mainly with putting, but for some reason went back to the conventional way. I guess with the specific ball position, it's about seeing what works for you and then establishing a level of trust in it, so it can be translated to the course.

[Burglar]

With a driver, if I look at the ball I'll slice it. If I look and swing at the ground behind it (aligned with my belt buckle), I hit it straight.

[Swednrox]

http://www.diyphotography.net/a-neat-trick-to-determine-your-dominant-eye/

[naval2006]

The other day I was talking about that with one of the best players at my club. We both agreed we didn't focus directly on the ball but the key to the swing was the position of and motion of the head during the swing. I don't know if I'm clear but pretty much it's what Jim refers to above.

[Jim Waldron]

Steady head goes along with steady gaze/vision, which helps not only with over-coming being "ball bound" but with Balance as well.

 

Part of this whole idea is learning to switch your orientation off of the "ball as target".

 

Tough to not succumb to the Hit or Steering Impulse or Helping Out at Impact or Scooping Impulses when you believe that the whole point of golf is to "hit the ball with the clubhead".

 

Switching that to "send the ball to the target" is a really Big Deal in improving your ballstriking and in lowering your scores.

[stryper]

I stumbled onto the idea of focusing on a spot in front of the ball a few years ago, after reading Bobby Clampett's Impact Zone. In keeping with his 4" forward swing bottom, I started looking at a spot roughly that far ahead of the ball along my target line, and my contact improved immediately. Oddly enough, even though I know it works, my eyes like to drift back to the ball over time without my brain realizing it. I only become aware of it when a series of fat shots start piling up. Then I'll hit the reset button, consciously move my focus forward, and the fatties go away.

 

As an aside, recently I'd been battling a bit of yippiness in my short game. Taking the ball out of the equation and focusing forward is the only solution I've found that works. But again, the eyes like to drift. Then I'll stub a couple of easy chips, wake up to what I was doing, and remind myself what a dumb*** I can be.

 

I look at the hole while putting, regardless of the length of the putt.

[mocokid]

what of players who release head to target in downswing, Annika, Duval ?

[finleysg]

I call this "locking down the visual" and it helps to quiet the mind so that it can engage 100% with your chosen mental focal point.

 

"quiet the mind" is a great way to describe it -- really hard to do some days given that most of us have lives and work outside of golf. And then there are those memories that want to crowd into the picture: memories of the last hook or the last shot where you hit the ball in the forehead.

[BdaGolfer]

I stumbled onto the idea of focusing on a spot in front of the ball a few years ago, after reading Bobby Clampett's Impact Zone. In keeping with his 4" forward swing bottom, I started looking at a spot roughly that far ahead of the ball along my target line, and my contact improved immediately. Oddly enough, even though I know it works, my eyes like to drift back to the ball over time without my brain realizing it. I only become aware of it when a series of fat shots start piling up. Then I'll hit the reset button, consciously move my focus forward, and the fatties go away.

 

As an aside, recently I'd been battling a bit of yippiness in my short game. Taking the ball out of the equation and focusing forward is the only solution I've found that works. But again, the eyes like to drift. Then I'll stub a couple of easy chips, wake up to what I was doing, and remind myself what a dumb*** I can be.

 

I look at the hole while putting, regardless of the length of the putt.

 

I'm basically the same (read the same book) except for putting, where I pick a spot between the ball and putter head at address.