DG S400U in a Persimmon driver

freddiec · November 21, 2015

I'm curious to hear how a S400U DG shaft normally plays in a 44 or 43.5 inch classic (Late 80s) persimmon driver. I don't have any experience hitting this shaft. My SS suites a R400, or S300 pretty well, but when I'm swinging well I've also hit a X100 well in one of my clubs. Does anybody have experience playing this shaft?

Davewn · November 21, 2015

I don't have any direct experience with the S400U but I do have a couple of questions for you: What type of installation are you contemplating? Is the shaft already installed and you are butt cutting to length or are you considering a reshaft with something you have on hand? How is the shaft tipped? Is the head a blind bore or through bore? Depending on how the shaft is tipped, one can make the shaft play softer if that is a concern. Extra length will soften flex as well, but only marginally.

freddiec · November 21, 2015

Dave, thanks for your response. I'm not installing. The shaft is original to my Texan, which I have not hit, just curious what to expect....the 1st step is 12 inches from the bottom of the bore. I have not had a chance to hit it yet, wanted info about the shaft. I'm assuming its stiffer and a S3, weaker than S5.. Just assumptions. Curious how it would play. i know some of my persimmon buddies are experts with questions like this... [attachment=3040680:T_soleplate.jpg]

Davewn · November 21, 2015

Beautiful club! Your assumption is correct- should play slightly stiffer than an S300, softer than an S500 or X100. What separates a Dynamic Gold from a plain old Dynamic shaft (when they were offered) is weight sorting. A set manufactured with Dynamic stiff shafts could have S100-500 all mixed throughout the set. The precision gram sorting step taken with the Golds assured a given set of shafts matched more closely with one another, based on the assumption that the slightly heavier shaft played slightly stiffer due to the presence of more steel in that shaft.

fluffy265 · November 21, 2015

Freddie,
I think much of how the club performs in your hands will depend on the shafts tipping. I've DG S400U's in both Yamaha & Spalding persimmon's of the same era. I can't hit the Spalding's to save myself, yet the Yammy is one of my favourite clubs. The Yamaha is tipped nearly two steps more.

J

freddiec · November 21, 2015

Thanks. I'm looking forward to getting out there hopefully this week and hitting the club. Its been tough for me to find the time lately. Will report back when I do...

rex235 · November 21, 2015

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1448130847' post='12628338']
I'm curious to hear how a S400U DG shaft normally plays in a 44 or 43.5 inch classic (Late 80s) persimmon driver. I don't have any experience hitting this shaft. My SS suites a R400, or S300 pretty well, but when I'm swinging well I've also hit a X100 well in one of my clubs. Does anybody have experience playing this shaft?
[/quote]

Fred-

My LH Cleveland Classic TC-15s have DG S400s in them, and they play very well.

They are all drill-thru hosels, which Cleveland didn't do for LH models (unless you asked....)

W/S · November 22, 2015

In the Dynamic days, before weight-sorting, S200, S300, and S400 weight shafts would all be labeled "S." The only differences between a Dynamic Gold S200 and S300 and S400 are a couple of grams' worth of weight. One can't tell the difference just from holding or swinging the club, and I don't think it really plays any stiffer.

But the "U" designation on the S400U is significant. It stands for "unitized," which means parallel (non-taper) tip. Taper tip shafts, which were the standard for persimmon, have a bit more feel in them, compared to parallel tip shafts. So the "U" shafts feel a bit stiffer/harsher than their respective taper-tip counterparts, in my opinion. The taper-tip shaft is one of the reasons why people always spoke so highly of the "feel" of blades like the Mizuno MP-14, for example. I'm not sure what the tip diameter of a TTDG "U" wood shaft would be; the "U" iron shafts were .370, instead of .355 in the taper tip. But traditionally, persimmon wood shafts had a smaller tip diameter; something like .295, I believe. Same thing for the shafts that went into the classic Titleist PT (Pro Trajectory) woods of the early-1990s, which were the purest fairway metals ever made.

NRJyzr · November 23, 2015

[quote name='W/S' timestamp='1448236670' post='12632692']
In the Dynamic days, before weight-sorting, S200, S300, and S400 weight shafts would all be labeled "S." The only differences between a Dynamic Gold S200 and S300 and S400 are a couple of grams' worth of weight. One can't tell the difference just from holding or swinging the club, and I don't think it really plays any stiffer.

But the "U" designation on the S400U is significant. It stands for "unitized," which means parallel (non-taper) tip. Taper tip shafts, which were the standard for persimmon, have a bit more feel in them, compared to parallel tip shafts. So the "U" shafts feel a bit stiffer/harsher than their respective taper-tip counterparts, in my opinion. The taper-tip shaft is one of the reasons why people always spoke so highly of the "feel" of blades like the Mizuno MP-14, for example. I'm not sure what the tip diameter of a TTDG "U" wood shaft would be; the "U" iron shafts were .370, instead of .355 in the taper tip. But traditionally, persimmon wood shafts had a smaller tip diameter; something like .295, I believe. Same thing for the shafts that went into the classic Titleist PT (Pro Trajectory) woods of the early-1990s, which were the purest fairway metals ever made.
[/quote]

The reason tapered Dynamic/DG shafts are preferred over the parallel version is only somewhat related to the tapering of the tip. They're completely different shafts. The tapered tip is only peripheral.

A parallel DG iron shaft is a constant .370" from the tip to the bottom of the first step. Tapered DG iron shafts are .355 at the tip, constantly tapering to .395 or so at the bottom of the first step. It's this larger diameter that creates the stiffer tip feeling many associate with tapered DG vs parallel DG.

If parallel DG were manufactured the same way, with each shaft distinctly manufactured, and with tip section ceasing its taper coming down from the bottom of the step at .370 and going parallel from there, they would largely be the same shaft. Could be argued this sort of parallel shaft would be slightly stiffer tipped, due to the larger diameter of more of the tip.

Also a consideration of sorts, tapered DG are a constant weight shaft. The implication being, more metal is in the walls of the shorter shafts in the set, making them marginally thicker. Theoretically, this produces a slightly steeper flex slope.

If the tapered wood shafts were manufactured in the same relative manner as tapered iron shafts, with the tip section being tapered from the .294 tip to wider than .335 at the bottom of the first step, it could be interesting. If they were .335 at the bottom of the first step, then tapering to the .294 tip, the tapered wood shaft wouldn't provide the same relative difference as the tapered vs parallel DG iron shaft comparison.