A scratch player against Phil Mickelson with a 700 yard advantage....

[Stall]

I don't post too much on WRX, 100 posts in 6 years or so but I enjoy reading it. This has been a great thread to read. Obee, you are one lucky guy to get to play with those two.

 

I've seen both up close on plenty occasions at Scottish and Open Championships and both always seem great guys. Playing golf with them would be some experience.

 

Out of interest, what course is it you play, and what was the reason that these two superstars came over? Was there a club ballot for you to be one of the chosen ones or did you organise it?

 

Either way, sounds a great experience. Very jealous!

[Forged4ever]

Our group ranges from +3 to 1. There are about 10-15 of us at the club in that range, and all of us our 40-60 years old. And that's not including the pros or the college kids!

You and Your Guys sound like our "scratches"

 

What I mean is Guys like You, my Bud Dave and even the past Tarheel, who on the board is a scratch or slightly either way a tad, are all serious Plus Players so I don't look at You as a true scratch, lol

 

You're capable of going red every time ya plant the tee and even though ya may not be Plus, day in and day out, if you come out firing on all cylinders, well, you're sub 70-

 

In other words, You, Dave and a few others are Pluses masquerading as scratches, LMAO-

 

I mean that as the highest complement :)

 

Versus in my mind, a "true" scratch is someone who's whittled their cap down to the scratch, yet mentally, they haven't gone red enough to, when they're in that position, instead of getting that positive adrenaline rush and focusing on the shot at hand and seeing the birdie or eagle, the "true" scratch "hopes" he hits the shot that you Guys KNOW ya can hit, because you've hit it thousands if times over the years, it's just a matter of if ya hit it-

 

There's a huge difference mentally and that's why I said what I said in your theoretical, lol

 

I'm thinkin the average "true" scratch who's not comfortable goin red and now he's gotta play Phil, and I don't care if he plays the reds-

 

Seriously....

 

But scratches comin the other way, from The Plus side?

 

You guys are the most dangerous and my nightmare(well, everyone's my nightmare now), haha

 

Stay Well My Friend & have a great season :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever,

RP

---------------

Later Editiion: 01/08/2015, 9:42am-> This is a post that I posted in "General" in the "How Good are the Guys Around You" thread. Obe's did respond though I'm lucky to copy/paste this without screwing it up ;)

 

Had I known that it was not actually theoretical, lol, I would say that it would be much closer, similar to the actual results and I would say that the Scratch, whether it be Obes, his Buds or my Bud, Dave, would take 2-3 outa 10 from Phil-

 

A "true" scratch??

 

Their goal should be not to vomit on themselves, lmao

 

And before some True Scratch gets their boxers in a knot, go out and either in money games or tourneys go sub 70 and take your cap to Plus then come call me an A**H*** and I'll agree :)

 

But by then, you'll be like Obes and Dave, and not a true scratch, lol

 

Listen to me, lmao

 

A "true" scratch??

 

I'm an idiot, ignore me :)

 

Goin to IVs, take care Bros

 

All the Best,

RP

[Royal Scott]

FIGJAM 100% of the time

[Loki]

Did Phil and Ricky make it look easy?

 

Did you get a sense of how hard they think the game is?

[RICKYBOBBY]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

 

I would say the scratch fits into the category of someone who doesn't have to play or practice multiple times a week to maintain his handicap. I would also say that a scratch played to about the top of his abilities(a scratch doesn't average even par) and that Phil played probably a bad round shooting somewhere between 3 under and even. I would guess the course rating is rough from the tips and the 700 yards makes a ton of difference as to how hard the course is. Some courses it being your home course and someone only having played it once or not at all makes a HUGE difference.

 

I would also say that is a hell of an accomplishment, to only lose by one to FIGJAM! I mean he isn't as good as he once was, but he is still Phil Freaking MIckelson. I have never had the stars align to play against/with such a big star and great player, I carry a plus handicap and haven't gotten within 3 of a guy who used to play on tour.

 

In all honesty, I did say 90 times out of 100. The player did come within 6, which is awesome.

 

Did you read Obee's post and the story of what actually happened in this real life scenario?

Here is a link:

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry12807362

 

I have now. I have never played with Phil or any other big name like him. I am going off what I saw from two up and coming players(Brown and Kisner) and one player that is over 50 and never won on the PGA tour but can still flat out play. I am a + handicap(right around scratch) and do not work at it. Every once in awhile I can throw up a 68 or so, but the chances are that most PGA Tour pros easily put that up as well.

 

Of course I have seen them play bad, and on a long course that is an average course in America they play bad on it and still shoot a couple under par. It sounds like the course in question is not such a course. It sounds a lot like Echelon north of Atlanta with a 74.9/150 rating and almost 7100 yards from one set of tees up from the tips. At the tips Echelon plays 77.8/154 at 7550 yards. Until you have played it 5 or 6 times it can jump and bite anyone very easily.

 

 

But you said there wasn't even a debate. So.....there is a debate?

[Obee]

Did Phil and Ricky make it look easy?

 

Did you get a sense of how hard they think the game is?

 

Rickie did. Phil was playing the course for only the second time and, again, the course is very difficult for the uninitiated. Phil has always been kind of a swashbuckling "rip at it" kind of guy. He's past parallel, he loves to work the ball and play different shots. His short game is very flashy and "cool" so, to me, Phil never looks like he's making it easy. He looks like he's attacking the course and the ball -- if that makes sense.

 

I don't think they think the game is hard at all, because it's not for them. Heck, it's not that hard for when I'm on and the course I'm playing is under 6600 yards. And don't take that the wrong way. I only mean that I hit a lot of greens and make a lot of pars and some birdies on relatively easy golf courses.

 

At least it doesn't feel hard some of the time. For them, I think they only time they think they game is truly hard is in really windy conditions, or at a course set up like the U.S. Open. Other than that, 90% of the time, they are just hitting a golf shot that they've hit thousands of times.

 

Honestly, two things amaze me about their games:

 

1) Their consistent length and accuracy off the tee (290 - 310 while hitting 65 - 80% of fairways and narrowly missing the others)

 

2) Their putting. They just don't miss the center of the putter, and that's something that most amateurs just don't understand. Their speed control and line control is just amazing. Of course they probably practice putting a minimum of 10 - 20 hours every week, 52 weeks a year, but that's beside the point -- they roll it soooo purely.

[clintwilli23]

Fantastic story...just wish I could have been there. I think it would be amazing to get these guys on the course on a regular day, no large crowd, no cameras, just golf with the guys...can't beat it.

[Hawkeye77]

Our group ranges from +3 to 1. There are about 10-15 of us at the club in that range, and all of us our 40-60 years old. And that's not including the pros or the college kids!

You and Your Guys sound like our "scratches"

 

What I mean is Guys like You, my Bud Dave and even the past Tarheel, who on the board is a scratch or slightly either way a tad, are all serious Plus Players so I don't look at You as a true scratch, lol

 

You're capable of going red every time ya plant the tee and even though ya may not be Plus, day in and day out, if you come out firing on all cylinders, well, you're sub 70-

 

In other words, You, Dave and a few others are Pluses masquerading as scratches, LMAO-

 

I mean that as the highest complement :)

 

Versus in my mind, a "true" scratch is someone who's whittled their cap down to the scratch, yet mentally, they haven't gone red enough to, when they're in that position, instead of getting that positive adrenaline rush and focusing on the shot at hand and seeing the birdie or eagle, the "true" scratch "hopes" he hits the shot that you Guys KNOW ya can hit, because you've hit it thousands if times over the years, it's just a matter of if ya hit it-

 

There's a huge difference mentally and that's why I said what I said in your theoretical, lol

 

I'm thinkin the average "true" scratch who's not comfortable goin red and now he's gotta play Phil, and I don't care if he plays the reds-

 

Seriously....

 

But scratches comin the other way, from The Plus side?

 

You guys are the most dangerous and my nightmare(well, everyone's my nightmare now), haha

 

Stay Well My Friend & have a great season :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever,

RP

---------------

Later Editiion: 01/08/2015, 9:42am-> This is a post that I posted in "General" in the "How Good are the Guys Around You" thread. Obe's did respond though I'm lucky to copy/paste this without screwing it up ;)

 

Had I known that it was not actually theoretical, lol, I would say that it would be much closer, similar to the actual results and I would say that the Scratch, whether it be Obes, his Buds or my Bud, Dave, would take 2-3 outa 10 from Phil-

 

A "true" scratch??

 

Their goal should be not to vomit on themselves, lmao

 

And before some True Scratch gets their boxers in a knot, go out and either in money games or tourneys go sub 70 and take your cap to Plus then come call me an A**H*** and I'll agree :)

 

But by then, you'll be like Obes and Dave, and not a true scratch, lol

 

Listen to me, lmao

 

A "true" scratch??

 

I'm an idiot, ignore me :)

 

Goin to IVs, take care Bros

 

All the Best,

RP

 

I deserve an award Richard. I worked my way through that entire post and understood it enough to know that my golf goal is apparently to get my handicap to a point where I hope I don't vomit on myself if I ever have the privilege of playing with Obee! Somehow that doesn't have the luster it had before. ;-)

[Hawkeye77]

Oh, and awesome thread!

[Forged4ever]

Our group ranges from +3 to 1. There are about 10-15 of us at the club in that range, and all of us our 40-60 years old. And that's not including the pros or the college kids!

I deserve an award Richard. I worked my way through that entire post and understood it enough to know that my golf goal is apparently to get my handicap to a point where I hope I don't vomit on myself if I ever have the privilege of playing with Obee! Somehow that doesn't have the luster it had before. ;-)

Our group ranges from +3 to 1. There are about 10-15 of us at the club in that range, and all of us our 40-60 years old. And that's not including the pros or the college kids!

You and Your Guys sound like our "scratches"

 

What I mean is Guys like You, my Bud Dave and even the past Tarheel, who on the board is a scratch or slightly either way a tad, are all serious Plus Players so I don't look at You as a true scratch, lol

 

You're capable of going red every time ya plant the tee and even though ya may not be Plus, day in and day out, if you come out firing on all cylinders, well, you're sub 70-

 

In other words, You, Dave and a few others are Pluses masquerading as scratches, LMAO-

 

I mean that as the highest complement :)

 

Versus in my mind, a "true" scratch is someone who's whittled their cap down to the scratch, yet mentally, they haven't gone red enough to, when they're in that position, instead of getting that positive adrenaline rush and focusing on the shot at hand and seeing the birdie or eagle, the "true" scratch "hopes" he hits the shot that you Guys KNOW ya can hit, because you've hit it thousands if times over the years, it's just a matter of if ya hit it-

 

There's a huge difference mentally and that's why I said what I said in your theoretical, lol

 

I'm thinkin the average "true" scratch who's not comfortable goin red and now he's gotta play Phil, and I don't care if he plays the reds-

 

Seriously....

 

But scratches comin the other way, from The Plus side?

 

You guys are the most dangerous and my nightmare(well, everyone's my nightmare now), haha

 

Stay Well My Friend & have a great season :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever,

RP

---------------

Later Editiion: 01/08/2015, 9:42am-> This is a post that I posted in "General" in the "How Good are the Guys Around You" thread. Obe's did respond though I'm lucky to copy/paste this without screwing it up ;)

 

Had I known that it was not actually theoretical, lol, I would say that it would be much closer, similar to the actual results and I would say that the Scratch, whether it be Obes, his Buds or my Bud, Dave, would take 2-3 outa 10 from Phil-

 

A "true" scratch??

 

Their goal should be not to vomit on themselves, lmao

 

And before some True Scratch gets their boxers in a knot, go out and either in money games or tourneys go sub 70 and take your cap to Plus then come call me an A**H*** and I'll agree :)

 

But by then, you'll be like Obes and Dave, and not a true scratch, lol

 

Listen to me, lmao

 

A "true" scratch??

 

I'm an idiot, ignore me :)

 

Goin to IVs, take care Bros

 

All the Best,

RP

 

I deserve an award Richard. I worked my way through that entire post and understood it enough to know that my golf goal is apparently to get my handicap to a point where I hope I don't vomit on myself if I ever have the privilege of playing with Obee! Somehow that doesn't have the luster it had before. ;-)

LMAO, Madison always tells me to stay off of the board for the first 60 minutes after my meds, lol.

 

When I violate the "60 minute rule," the above post is what occurs, lmao-

 

Thanks for being kind and forget about the vomit, lol-

 

Just visualize, breathe even and deep, and you'll be good to go Bro :)

 

Have a Great New Year and season ahead :)

 

My Best,

RP

[Bigbigrdg]

Best thread I've read on WRX..... My 2 favorite golfers to boot! So awesome, thanks for sharing!

[HoffTTM]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

[DavePelz4]

OB...without violating any confidences, were Rickie and Phil playing for...

 

What the average 'Merican makes in a week, month, year or 5-10 years?

[Obee]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

 

Some of us across the pond have indexes that don't change. I'm between a one and a plus one both here and if I was in the UK. My competition scores are actually a bit lower than my every day scores. And unless I am getting things wrong, that's really the only difference between the UK and the US: in the UK, only scores shot in competition count toward one's handicap. Is that correct?

[HoffTTM]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

 

Some of us across the pond have indexes that don't change. I'm between a one and a plus one both here and if I was in the UK. My competition scores are actually a bit lower than my every day scores. And unless I am getting things wrong, that's really the only difference between the UK and the US: in the UK, only scores shot in competition count toward one's handicap. Is that correct?

Once you get to below 5.5 you only get reduced .1 for each stroke you are under the days "Competition Scratch Score" so they are a lot less volatile. It takes a lot of very low rounds, very consistently to maintain a handicap of that level.

 

Also your buffer zone is only one stroke and anything over that gets .1 added back on.

[Obee]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

 

Some of us across the pond have indexes that don't change. I'm between a one and a plus one both here and if I was in the UK. My competition scores are actually a bit lower than my every day scores. And unless I am getting things wrong, that's really the only difference between the UK and the US: in the UK, only scores shot in competition count toward one's handicap. Is that correct?

Once you get to below 5.5 you only get reduced .1 for each stroke you are under the days "Competition Scratch Score" so they are a lot less volatile. It takes a lot of very low rounds, very consistently to maintain a handicap of that level.

 

Also your buffer zone is only one stroke and anything over that gets .1 added back on.

 

How was the competition scratch score determined? Is it a before the round thing or after the round thing? Is it just an average of the competitors, or a course rating for the day based upon the conditions, etc.?

[MacMia]

9 and 7.

9 and 7.

 

Anything else Tiger?

 

9 and 7.

 

Phil drills the scratch all day every day.

[HoffTTM]

Not remotely close, A USGA scratch is like a 2 or 3 over here bc of the way the systems work and i play plenty with players of that level from 6400-6500. The scratch player would be lucky to win 5% of the time.

 

Some of us across the pond have indexes that don't change. I'm between a one and a plus one both here and if I was in the UK. My competition scores are actually a bit lower than my every day scores. And unless I am getting things wrong, that's really the only difference between the UK and the US: in the UK, only scores shot in competition count toward one's handicap. Is that correct?

Once you get to below 5.5 you only get reduced .1 for each stroke you are under the days "Competition Scratch Score" so they are a lot less volatile. It takes a lot of very low rounds, very consistently to maintain a handicap of that level.

 

Also your buffer zone is only one stroke and anything over that gets .1 added back on.

 

How was the competition scratch score determined? Is it a before the round thing or after the round thing? Is it just an average of the competitors, or a course rating for the day based upon the conditions, etc.?

 

Its a modifier that is applied to the SSS (standard scratch score) which is similar to the USGA CR. There are tables to work it out but it basically depends on what percentage of players shot 2 over SSS or better in order to take conditions on the day into account

[Obee]

9 and 7.

9 and 7.

 

Anything else Tiger?

 

9 and 7.

 

Phil drills the scratch all day every day.

9 and 7???

 

With a 700 yard advantage?

[pappaf2]

9 and 7.

9 and 7.

 

Anything else Tiger?

 

9 and 7.

 

Phil drills the scratch all day every day.

 

It was 9 & 8 that tiger beat Ames by.

 

Also if you read Obee's story there was no drilling happening by Phil.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Obee your thread is keeping entertainment value based solely on the posters who read the OP and then don't bother with the rest. This thread gives in so many ways!

[gregflat9]

Awesome stuff...!

 

I'd have liked to see how the score would have compared off the same tees.

 

I guess the inference is still the same: Those Guys Are Really Good...!

[Obee]

Awesome stuff...!

 

I'd have liked to see how the score would have compared off the same tees.

 

I guess the inference is still the same: Those Guys Are Really Good...!

 

Pretty simple, just add 3-4 strokes to my average score and there you have it. :-)

 

I shoot 69 - 81 from the blacks with my normal range being 73-78. Phil would shoot 62 - 74, with his normal range being 65 - 70.

[Stall]

Awesome stuff...!

 

I'd have liked to see how the score would have compared off the same tees.

 

I guess the inference is still the same: Those Guys Are Really Good...!

 

Pretty simple, just add 3-4 strokes to my average score and there you have it. :-)

 

I shoot 69 - 81 from the blacks with my normal range being 73-78. Phil would shoot 62 - 74, with his normal range being 65 - 70.

 

If you had beat Phil, would you have cashed in your bet? I would'v been tempted to ask him to pay it as a rematch at an elite course - use his Augusta privileges? haha. He might laugh, but as the saying goes, god loves a trier after all......

[DON SVO]

Obee your thread is keeping entertainment value based solely on the posters who read the OP and then don't bother with the rest. This thread gives in so many ways!

 

It's thoroughly entertaining not only for the one-post-only readers but because every single person that comments in such a manner has missed one of THE coolest stories to grace this board.

[TheCityGame]

Obee could have started a thread, "4 scratch golfers playing a scramble from 5000 yards against Colt Knost playing 8000" and half the site would have been like "It's close, but probably Knost."

 

People think of pro golfers like those old Da Bears guys thought about Ditka.

 

"Could one Mike Ditka beat the New York Giants all by himself?"

 

"Twelve inch tall Ditka, or full size Ditka?"

 

They're not gods. Pros miss shots. Pros have bad rounds. Pros don't stick every wedge to 3 feet, and they don't make very many of their putts outside of 10 feet, no matter where they're playing. That doesn't change. 700 yards is a big advantage. I would have wanted maybe more like 1000, but 700 is a lot of yards. And people forget how good a scratch golfer is. I know guys who aren't even scratch golfers who will go hit 15-16 greens if they're playing 6300 yards. You know what pros scrambling percentage is from 20-30 yards on tour? About 50%. From 20-30 yards. Oh, right, but they're playing on 5% slopes with greens running 15 on the stimp.

 

And, everyone that guessed wrong is like, "oh, well it's the type of course you have to know." or "Obee isn't a NORMAL scratch golfer" or "Phil couldn't have been taking it too seriously". Anything people need to tell themselves so that they don't have to accept that their Gods are mortal. It's really a kind of cognitive dissonance.

 

Everyone is making a big deal about Phil not knowing the course. Well, he was playing with Rickie who knew the course pretty damn well. Whattyathink, Phil dunked one in a hazard and Rickie was like, "oh ya, forgot to tell you about that one."

 

These guys are awesome. I've seen 'em in person. They do it day in and day out all year long, but it's still golf. No 2000 rated chess player is going to beat Kasparov because you docked Kasparov a pawn. No club member is going to beat Federer if you gave him a wooden racket, but this is golf. When you figure in the tee difference, it probably made them at most 2-4 strokes different with the advantage to Phil. Big advantage. Wouldn't put money on the scratch, but not a "destroyed" advantage. Not an "all day every day".

 

9&7???? What's the thought process there? Phil birdies 10 of the first 11 holes from 7000 yards while the scratch player shoots +3 from short distance?

[Peanut191]

Cool write-up Obee. Thanks!

 

You mentioned Phil loves to talk golf equipment. Did he have any comments on your 6 hybrid?(just curious if he poked a little fun your way with in round banter or was genuinely interested in your use of so many hybrids, or if he even noticed)

[Obee]

Cool write-up Obee. Thanks!

 

You mentioned Phil loves to talk golf equipment. Did he have any comments on your 6 hybrid?(just curious if he poked a little fun your way with in round banter or was genuinely interested in your use of so many hybrids, or if he even noticed)

 

On our 12th hole, I was 170 and I hit my 6-hybrid to about 5 or 6 feet. I showed it to Phil as we were walking off the green and he just laughed.

 

We did talk about employing the 2-driver bag, which I will do on occasion. He still thinks it a good way to set up a bag for certain courses, although the "Phrankenwood" has made that not really necessary.

[DON SVO]

Obee... Someone mentioned the "Phil getting help from Fowler" thing earlier regarding course knowledge. Do you think their personal bet, which I can safely assume was way above the gross of the team bet, might have led Fowler to not divulge quality info regarding the course?

[Obee]

Rickie definitely told him the basics, but he certainly didn't read his putts for him or tell him where not to miss. LOL