A scratch player against Phil Mickelson with a 700 yard advantage....

[knock it close]

Haha I saw Rickie's snapchat the other day of him playing with Phil and the first thing I wondered was if Obee was peggin it with them again.

[cardoustie]

soon we'll see Obee at the Pebble Pro-Am with Phil .. playing off a 10. Just type in an extra 1 like that Japanese gent a few years back

[Obee]

soon we'll see Obee at the Pebble Pro-Am with Phil .. playing off a 10. Just type in an extra 1 like that Japanese gent a few years back

 

Never!! LOL

[Beastmode Broker]

wow just coming into this thread now

very cool and very jealous

thanks for sharing w us!!

[chicagolongball]

I've played with Adam Scott, who is a fair comparison I think. I was playing off +3.2 at the time and we had both played the course many times over. It was playing around 7200 yards and fairly firm. We both played off the same tees and, being honest, we were regularly within 5 yards of one another off the tee. I shot 69 and Adam shot 65. 64 is the course record. He left a couple shots out there, and could have easily been a shot or two better. My low round ever on that course is 67. If you moved me up 40 yards a hole, I could match his 65 on a great day, so it would be a game at that point. A scratch player would need that advantage and 2 a side, and that's if he can hold his nerves and is tournament tested. Play with a top 10 player in the world and see how much things tighten up. You feel it, trust me.

[Guest]

I have done this twice. A scratch may beat Phil 1/10 times, but it has more to do with Phil having a bad round than the scratch playing well.

 

For me ... Two different tour pros playing our tips at 7100 yards. Both were ranked between 100-150 on the PGA Tour money list. Both played in a couple of US Opens. Me (slightly better than scratch and played in college) from the whites at 6300 on my home course. We played match play, and both times I got beat by the 15th hole despite being 2-under and 4-under in the matches.

 

While I got about 20-30 yard advantages into the greens, frankly I was not even close to their consistency with the irons, especially over 150 yards. They don't miss, and when they do it's like 25 feet away. Both of them had 4-5 tap in birdies. I felt my short game was almost as good, but the ball striking is a world above. It's not just how close they hit it, it's how they work the ball like 2-3 yards in the air towards the target seemingly every time. Same ball flight every time. Always solid contact. At least all I lost was dinner.

[uscmex]

Played in a tournament in front of Phil at LA Jolla CC a few weeks ago along with Charlie Hoffman, local legend Harry Rudolph and the CC head pro. It was a beat the pro match.

 

He was easily 30-40 yards longer than the group and wasn't that sharp and his team shot 64. Saw a few shots of his and impressive but not out if this world lights out.

 

Played d1 golf, have a ton of friends who play professionally and on tour. The 700 yards is irrelevant. You're talking about 40 yards a hole. So at most a 2 club distance difference. So in stead of wedges it's 8/9 irons. Say he plays the par 5's in 3 instead of 2. I bet you his scores are the same on those. Wedges all day for Phil? Hmmmmm. Now let's say the par 3's. Instead of 5 irons it's 3 irons?

 

That being said I think a true scratch can keep up with Phil or any pro for that matter on his best day. A bad day at the local country club for Phil is a few over. A bad day for a scratch can be a lot more.

 

The bottom line is the scratch still has too much volatility in scoring to consistently best any pro.

[Gamble Gamble]

I'll bet on Phil...

 

PM me for my paypal address.

[lefebvma9]

Phil sucks though.....

[tickyboy]

I think everyone missed the boat... I'd use the 700 yards working from the green backwards. Get within 38.5 yards of the pin, walk to next tee.

 

Smoke Mick everytime

[proguy]

This reminds me of women. What if this, What if that?

[knock it close]

This reminds me of women. What if this, What if that?

Well if you read the thread you'd realize it actually happened, twice actually....

[clinkinfo]

Assuming it was a solid tournament scratch - like a former D1 player who works for a living and they are playing at 6500 on their home course vs Phil playing at 7200, I think the scratch guy takes it 60% of the time.

 

If it was your typical club scratch that has played at a high level - phil wins 90%

 

 

I agree with your separation of scratch types, but I think you're still giving both players too much. I think he beats the club scratch with no tournament experience pretty much every time, and the d1 player 90%+ of the time.

 

When watching the d1 guys in the college championship on the golf channel, they just aren't really in the same category as Phil IMO.

[CJenks95]

Phil is more than likely going to take it 9/10 times. I know plenty of "scratch" golfers who are only scratch at their own club. They can't produce at any other course, especially in tournaments. Now, if you have a scratch who has played at a higher level but works full time, id love to see what happens if you give him a month of practice at a specific course. He gets to play and practice all month while Phil gets 1 practice round. Still gets the 700 yard difference and greens are as stated above. That could be interesting. Maybe the scratch gets that edge back from his D1 days and beats phil 2,3 maybe 4 times? Out of 10. Someone call Phil and see if we can arrange this!

[golferdrmjr]

Does anyone read a whole thread through before they add their two cents? You can look pretty silly when you don't. :-)

[LCP]

Obviously, playing good vs. playing bad makes a difference, but I don't think you can generalize it. It depends on the course. If the club scratch is a long hitter that hits 300 (or is just as long as Mickelson), and the course gives him an advantage from hitting long from a shorter tee, then he has a real good chance to win. But, if all that does is make the club scratch have to hit a 3 wood off the tee to keep from overrunning the fairway, then he and Mickelson are essentially even in distance from the approach shot to the hole and Mickelson is going to win all day long. With a wide open track though, that long hitter club scratch golfer is going to be hitting wedges all day into par 4's and Mickelson's going to be hitting longer approach shots, giving the club scratch a better shot of being as close or closer to the hole for putts as Mickelson is hitting from further out. The long hitter club scratch from 6500 tees may also be going for it in two easily on all the par 5's. Plus that home-course scratch almost knows the break and speed on putts for all the hole locations and course conditions without even having to think, whereas Mickelson doesn't have a reference book of the green's break to look at. Also, what is the difference on the par 3 holes from the tees? 160 vs. 200 levels the playing field and maybe even tilts it to the club scratch, especially if he hits the ball the same distance Mickelson does. That makes it a lot easier to pick up a shot close to the hole with a makable birdie putt. 170 vs. 190 does not.

 

I'm not a good golfer, but I do hit it long. Playing shorter tees doesn't really help me shoot a lower score on any hole, except par 3's, reaching par 5's in two (more easily or at all on the longer ones), or maybe even letting me hit a hybrid off the tee that is guaranteed to be in the fairway vs. the driver from farther back that may be in trouble some of the time. Sometimes that driver works great from the shorter tees and I get to hit an easy sand wedge in to par 4 up close to the hole and that might result in an extra birdie that round, but it really only pays off about once per round. The extra stroke help is on the 3's I really notice, with a much greater likelihood of a par (or sometimes birdie) by hitting a wedge, 9 or 8 iron instead of a 7, 6 or 5 iron.

[dbigstick]

OB...you know I'm a fan because you're a classy guy...and you play a 6 hybrid! Of all the great threads on the site, your stories of playing with pros are among the very, very best. Congratulations for playing so very well and giving a sincere match to two of the top pros in the world. Not many on this site could bring their A game in that pairing. Well played Sir, well played.

 

+1

 

Ober is one of the classiest guys I have had the privilege of golfing with. We have some big personalities in the groups we typically play with, some good, some bad.. but Ober is definitely one of the most positive people out there. Not to mention, his game is very solid and he's always looking to help a fellow golfer. A lot of guys that are competitive amateurs are definitely not like Ober, in fact, they are the exact opposite.

 

Cheers Dave, you are the man, thankful to call you a friend! :drinks:

 

+1

 

Truer words have not been spoken. Congrats on a great round and an even better experience.

 

 

[jchaivre]

Tiger was a +6.8 at Isleworth which is one of the toughest courses in the country. If they went to a normal non PGA golf course that had a 7200 yard tee and a 0 handicap player played from 6500 Phil would play that guy for any bet he wanted. Phil's scoring average is sub 70 on the PGA tour. Taking slope and course rating his handicap with just tour rounds is at least +4. Phil would lay the hammer down on him everytime.

[bogeypro]

does this whole thread count as a passive brag?

[Obee]

does this whole thread count as a passive brag?

 

Never passive with me! This is an ACTIVE brag!! LOL

[dbigstick]

Obee, I am glad you are back healthy and look forward to teeing it up with you again at your track and donating some $$ for the lesson and privilege. ;)

[messtoph]

What I get out of this thread other than Obee must me one heck of a playa and person. Is to put money on Ricky to get a major this year!

[T.Wedge]

What about a very solid 5 handicapper playing every shot twice (sort of Texas Scramble with himself) vs Phil M? Is that not a very close match?

[Forged4ever]

A scratch player would need that advantage and 2 a side, and that's if he can hold his nerves and is tournament tested. Play with a top 10 player in the world and see how much things tighten up. You feel it, trust me.

Absolutely!!

 

Great story!!

 

Extremely Well Played!!

 

Stay Well My Friend :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever,

RP

[Forged4ever]

What about a very solid 5 handicapper playing every shot twice (sort of Texas Scramble with himself) vs Phil M? Is that not a very close match?

Probably not-

 

As ChiTown said, and I and others before, it depends one, if the individual is "tourney tested," as in USGA and Affiliated or Open Tounreys and two, if he's teed it up with A Top Tour Pro before-

 

It was weird because I got to Play with Arnie(he's a patient of my father's) and he was 77yo and I'm not going to get into it however I had Played with Top-5 Players before yet when I walked out onto the tee(Bay Hill) I didn't see the 77yo man. I literally in my mind saw the man below and my pulse quickened and I took a right turn and went through a breathing exercise that I do to relax me and drop my pulse-

 

It had been years and many many tournaments since I'd had to do that exercise-

 

However picturing Arnie as THAT man, s***, it's one of the two weirdest things that's ever happened to me on the course in 48 years, and no, I ain't talkin about the first, lol.

 

I turned around a distance away and stared intently at the man, imprinting the vision of a 77yo Gent in my mind and not the mental image that I had carried all of those years.

 

Anyhoo, ChiTown called it and if ya notice, it has nothin to do with physical game and everything to do with mental-

 

And this is where a -5 is lacking in comparison to his scratch and Plus Brethren :)

 

And take another look at the pic below please....

 

Arnie was one bad son of a b****!!!

 

Just my .01 worth

 

All the Best,

RP

[Forged4ever]

Obe's, I think the world of ya Bro, but you're a dinosaur, LMAO......

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-phil-mickelson-lost-dollar5000-to-ryan-ruffels-a-17-year-old-professional?mbid=nl_011716_daily_hitlist&CNDID=&spMailingID=8442151&spUserID=MTA4NzI5NDQ2Nzc3S0&spJobID=841865041&spReportId=ODQxODY1MDQxS0

 

Oh Lord, how the Game's a changin :)

 

Have a Great week Gents :)

 

Golfingly Yours,

RP

[MacMia]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you aren't really playing w Phil. You are playing behind him, or at least that's what happened the second time.

 

I contend that in a true head to head match a scratch with a 700 yard advantage will lose handily to a pro who is typically +5 or better. Comparing scores across groups isn't truly a match.

 

 

 

[HeadonaStick]

Absolutely great thread... thanks for sharing!

 

Does anyone read a whole thread through before they add their two cents? You can look pretty silly when you don't. :-)

 

I think the most entertaining part is those who post after you've mentioned it several times. Or those who failed to read it through, posted, and then try and justify what they had to say rather than just sucking it up and saying "my mistake... thanks for sharing."

 

This is one of those threads that was great, remains great, and just keeps on giving in so may ways.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Obee,

 

I had been tipped to this thread after you had provided the play by play, but wish I would have followed from the beginning. You are always good for a well thought out contribution.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences in vivid detail. I'll be thinking about this thread when shovelling my driveway and slogging through a day at the 'office' tomorrow.

 

Mike

[Obee]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you aren't really playing w Phil. You are playing behind him, or at least that's what happened the second time.

 

I contend that in a true head to head match a scratch with a 700 yard advantage will lose handily to a pro who is typically +5 or better. Comparing scores across groups isn't truly a match.

 

Played with him the first time, and behind him the second time.