A scratch player against Phil Mickelson with a 700 yard advantage....

[JustTheTips]

 

Let's say the course is rated 76 from the tees Phil is playing and 72 from the tees the scratch player is playing.

 

Have at it!!

 

(cool)

 

Lets keep it real simple: Do you think Phil is only 4 strokes better than the scratch player. I am guessing most people would put him at 6-8 better. Now either of them shooting a couple of shots better (scratch) or worse (phil) is in the realm of possibility so the scratch guy winning 1/10th of the time or so isn't an unreasonable guess.

 

Now the real question is how much does the scratch guy have to bet to get Phil interested.......

[Chomper]

Phil every day and twice on Sunday. Unless he is injured, then it might be 50/50. It would not even be close.

7200 yds for Phil is like 6500 yds for the scratch player, and the scratch would prob be a little nervous playing against Phil, even if he were tourney tested.

[drewtaylor21]

Can't wait to hear the story Obee!

 

(My money would be on Phil, I'm thinking Phil 67, Obee 70) :)

[munichop]

Phil- for him to get beat he would have to be less than 100 percent or auditioning some new equipment. Now if the greens were 8 on the stimp the scratch guy may have a shot...naw.

One of my friends played with Chez Reavie a few years back. They played Dobson in Mesa, AZ where they both grew up playing. Chez shot 65 but only because he left putts short all day. My friend is like that scratch guy, maybe a little better- won 2 mens club championships on this course- didn't sniff 65. Gotta make a lot of putts to shoot that much under par.

[golferdrmjr]

At 6,400-6,500 yards, even a short knocker like Obee has a very good chance against Phil, given the circumstances. :-)

 

I'll bet it was close if both of you were playing decent.

[DON SVO]

I'm screaming at my phone because of previous experiences involving Obee and awesome playing partners as well as a subtle name-drop made in another thread.

 

PS - I re-read the RF/TP thread just the other day. It is legitimately the best thread I've read on this site. I have a feeling this one might just be as good. Please let this one be as good!

[abrok99]

I'd say Phil gives 3 a side and it could be close. but it also depends on the course if it's your home course and Phil hasn't seen it you may get an advantage but nothing serious maybe 2 shots on him max from that. plus Phil loves him some action so I'm sure that'll count against you for something lol

[c5bubblechaser]

I'm confused by this. Does Phil not hold a handicap? I mean you say scratch which means 0 or even right? I never heard of these guys carrying a negative handicap which would make them the same "level". Maybe I'm wrong

 

If Phil did keep a USGA index, it would likely be in the +5 to +7 range most months. That, however, would convert to a course handicap (at a difficult, high-slope golf course) of somewhere between +6 and +10 depending on just how high the slope was.

damn that makes me sick to think how high my course handicap would be on one of those courses :P

[mallrat]

I would guess a lot would depend on course conditions. You give them a wide open course, average speed greens and rough not being a factor the scratch player could have a shot. Especially if given strokes.

 

Now you put them on a US Open course with US Open conditions, I say no shot. I would also think it would depend on the type of scratch player. Someone who practices a lot and plays a decent bit but no tournament experience vs. someone who has played at a high level and doesn't get rattled.

 

Let's say the course was playing "firm and fast," and the greens were perfect tour speed and firmness. 12ish and firm, but able to accept a well-struck shot. Hypothetically.

 

Maybe I should have clarified :) I was meaning a tighter course with ridiculous rough and a LOT of potential trouble (which could also be Phil's downfall).

[Obee]

Yep. LOL!

 

Here's the full chart in all it's glory. What's your index?

 

+9.6 to +9.0 +12

+8.9 to +8.2 +11

+8.1 to +7.4 +10

+7.3 to +6.6 +9

+6.5 to +5.9 +8

+5.8 to +5.1 +7

+5.0 to +4.3 +6

+4.2 to +3.5 +5

+3.4 to +2.8 +4

+2.7 to +2.0 +3

+1.9 to +1.2 +2

+1.1 to +0.4 +1

+0.3 to 0.3 0

0.4 to 1.1 1

1.2 to 1.9 2

2.0 to 2.7 3

2.8 to 3.4 4

3.5 to 4.2 5

4.3 to 5.0 6

5.1 to 5.8 7

5.9 to 6.5 8

6.6 to 7.3 9

7.4 to 8.1 10

8.2 to 8.9 11

9.0 to 9.6 12

9.7 to 10.4 13

10.5 to 11.2 14

11.3 to 11.9 15

12.0 to 12.7 16

12.8 to 13.5 17

13.6 to 14.3 18

14.4 to 15.0 19

15.1 to 15.8 20

15.9 to 16.6 21

16.7 to 17.4 22

17.5 to 18.1 23

18.2 to 18.9 24

19.0 to 19.7 25

19.8 to 20.5 26

20.6 to 21.2 27

21.3 to 22.0 28

22.1 to 22.8 29

22.9 to 23.6 30

23.7 to 24.3 31

24.4 to 25.1 32

25.2 to 25.9 33

26.0 to 26.7 34

26.8 to 27.4 35

27.5 to 28.2 36

28.3 to 29.0 37

29.1 to 29.7 38

29.8 to 30.5 39

30.6 to 31.3 40

31.4 to 32.1 41

32.2 to 32.8 42

32.9 to 33.6 43

33.7 to 34.4 44

34.5 to 35.2 45

35.3 to 35.9 46

36.0 to 36.7 47

36.8 to 37.5 48

37.6 to 38.3 49

38.4 to 39.0 50

39.1 to 39.8 51

39.9 to 40.4 52

[Obee]

I would guess a lot would depend on course conditions. You give them a wide open course, average speed greens and rough not being a factor the scratch player could have a shot. Especially if given strokes.

 

Now you put them on a US Open course with US Open conditions, I say no shot. I would also think it would depend on the type of scratch player. Someone who practices a lot and plays a decent bit but no tournament experience vs. someone who has played at a high level and doesn't get rattled.

 

Let's say the course was playing "firm and fast," and the greens were perfect tour speed and firmness. 12ish and firm, but able to accept a well-struck shot. Hypothetically.

 

Maybe I should have clarified :) I was meaning a tighter course with ridiculous rough and a LOT of potential trouble (which could also be Phil's downfall).

 

The course is not very tight. It's a second shot golf course for sure, with trouble looming on basically every single approach. Rough in the winter is quite manageable since it's dormant Bermuda, but in the winter, the greens firm up and chipping/pitching gets pretty difficult.

[lumberman2462]

Yep. LOL!

 

Here's the full chart in all it's glory. What's your index?

 

+9.6 to +9.0 +12

+8.9 to +8.2 +11

+8.1 to +7.4 +10

+7.3 to +6.6 +9

+6.5 to +5.9 +8

+5.8 to +5.1 +7

+5.0 to +4.3 +6

+4.2 to +3.5 +5

+3.4 to +2.8 +4

+2.7 to +2.0 +3

+1.9 to +1.2 +2

+1.1 to +0.4 +1

+0.3 to 0.3 0

0.4 to 1.1 1

1.2 to 1.9 2

2.0 to 2.7 3

2.8 to 3.4 4

3.5 to 4.2 5

4.3 to 5.0 6

5.1 to 5.8 7

5.9 to 6.5 8

6.6 to 7.3 9

7.4 to 8.1 10

8.2 to 8.9 11

9.0 to 9.6 12

9.7 to 10.4 13

10.5 to 11.2 14

11.3 to 11.9 15

12.0 to 12.7 16

12.8 to 13.5 17

13.6 to 14.3 18

14.4 to 15.0 19

15.1 to 15.8 20

15.9 to 16.6 21

16.7 to 17.4 22

17.5 to 18.1 23

18.2 to 18.9 24

19.0 to 19.7 25

19.8 to 20.5 26

20.6 to 21.2 27

21.3 to 22.0 28

22.1 to 22.8 29

22.9 to 23.6 30

23.7 to 24.3 31

24.4 to 25.1 32

25.2 to 25.9 33

26.0 to 26.7 34

26.8 to 27.4 35

27.5 to 28.2 36

28.3 to 29.0 37

29.1 to 29.7 38

29.8 to 30.5 39

30.6 to 31.3 40

31.4 to 32.1 41

32.2 to 32.8 42

32.9 to 33.6 43

33.7 to 34.4 44

34.5 to 35.2 45

35.3 to 35.9 46

36.0 to 36.7 47

36.8 to 37.5 48

37.6 to 38.3 49

38.4 to 39.0 50

39.1 to 39.8 51

39.9 to 40.4 52

 

I'll bet it took a long time to type all of that....(John Forbes Nash could probably find a secret code in all those numbers)

[playa]

Phil every day without raising a sweat. 700 yards doesn't make up the 6 or 7 shots that Phil has on him handicap wise. There is no player on pga or web.com tour that wouldn't destroy the scratch golfer, never mind an elite pro like Phil.

[cagecitizen]

If you're suggesting that Phil Mickelson is only allowed to play with his wedges and putter, and gets clubbed in the knee by Jeff Gillooly somewhere on the back nine, then yes, the scratch player has a terrific chance of beating him.

[BMC]

Tour Pros don't always shoot 65s. Different days, different outcomes. Scratch guy has to have his best day to win, though.

[Your-away!]

Phil by 10..atleast!

[27x10.5]

You just said in another thread you played with Rickie and Phil...so what were the results?

[Scooterboy59]

Not even close.

[mark m]

How many rounds?

 

If just one, the scratch may stand a chance if Phil plays poorly. But otherwise, the scratch would be in big trouble.

 

A true scratch (0.0 Index) would average the course rating of 72 on the best half of his rounds. His real average (if this was the only course and tee he played) would be 2-3 above that, or between 74-75. (You could perhaps move that up a tad and say 74-76 as the average score is ESC adjusted. Although scratches typically do not have to adjust scores very often.)

 

Last year Phil averaged 70.585 (or 70.86) in 70 rounds on the tour. His better half of scores would probably average in the 60's. Phil should be about 3-5 shots better per round. A plus 3 or plus 4 would be a better match with this yardage difference.

 

If we use 72.0/136 as a rating, what handicap would a player need to average around 70.5 on a 72.0 rated course?

 

If he shoots 68:

 

Differential = 68 - 72.0 x 113 / 136 = +3.3

 

If he averages 68 on his best half, the Index = +3.1, +3.1 gives a course handicap of +4 on 72.0/136

 

So, a +3 to +4 Index will probably average around 70.5 or so for all scores played at 72.0/136. (Right about what Phil should average on a 76 rated course)

 

Remember Phil did not have a good season in 2015. Zero wins.

[jimwgt26]

I have three related stories:

 

1) I grew up caddying at The Country Club (Brookline) from 1987-1993. One of the guys who worked in the Pro Shop was Phil's teammate at ASU. He was the best player I'd ever seen at that point. He brought Phil to play. If I'm not mistaken, Phil had won the amateur and in Phoenix, but I'm not sure if he had turned pro. Phil was amazing. The difference between him and another division 1 player was night and day.

 

2) Once a summer they would set up the US Open routing. Brookline has 27 holes. The Open course is a combination. I never saw any of the best players in the club break 80.

 

Phil destroys a scratch player even giving up 700 yards.

 

3) I played Division 1 lacrosse in college, and played with many All Americans. Only one was1st team. He was incredible. His senior year there were four 1st team AA's at his position. Two of them were the Gait's. They're are arguably the two best players in the history of the game. The difference between them and my teammate was enormous.

 

There's a point to my boring you with these details. In every endeavor there're many greats, but there're only a few elite, world class, top of the mountain players.

[jimwgt26]

I'm screaming at my phone because of previous experiences involving Obee and awesome playing partners as well as a subtle name-drop made in another thread.

 

PS - I re-read the RF/TP thread just the other day. It is legitimately the best thread I've read on this site. I have a feeling this one might just be as good. Please let this one be as good!

 

 

Can you provide a link to the RF/TP thread?

 

[NV825]

Just a casual round with nothing on the line, the scratch player may have a shot if the planet's are aligned. If there's money on the line, Phil is foaming at the mouth and no way he loses.

[rjp322]

Phil wins 100/100 times regardless of the conditions. A scratch player is absolutely terrible if we are comparing scratch to a tour pro

[vtnerf]

If Phil's not playing for a couple of Hundies, he gets bored and it's close. Throw $500 on it, and Philly Mick closes it out on 13 or so.

[Forged4ever]

Hey Obe's, Happy New Year Bro :)

 

No chance.....,,,

 

NONE!!

 

Have a Great Year and Season My Friend,

RP

[joey2aces]

I have three related stories:

 

1) I grew up caddying at The Country Club (Brookline) from 1987-1993. One of the guys who worked in the Pro Shop was Phil's teammate at ASU. He was the best player I'd ever seen at that point. He brought Phil to play. If I'm not mistaken, Phil had won the amateur and in Phoenix, but I'm not sure if he had turned pro. Phil was amazing. The difference between him and another division 1 player was night and day.

 

2) Once a summer they would set up the US Open routing. Brookline has 27 holes. The Open course is a combination. I never saw any of the best players in the club break 80.

 

Phil destroys a scratch player even giving up 700 yards.

 

3) I played Division 1 lacrosse in college, and played with many All Americans. Only one was1st team. He was incredible. His senior year there were four 1st team AA's at his position. Two of them were the Gait's. They're are arguably the two best players in the history of the game. The difference between them and my teammate was enormous.

 

There's a point to my boring you with these details. In every endeavor there're many greats, but there're only a few elite, world class, top of the mountain players.

 

I grew up watching the Gait's here in 'Cuse. They were simply awesome.

[farmer]

Obie, we're waiting!

[PZero]

So you're trying to say you beat Phil, Obee?

[Obee]

Obie, we're waiting!

 

At the doctor. Full round report coming soon!!

[bazinky]

Not all 700 yard course differences are equal, as sometimes the yardage difference between tees is primarily concentrated on a few holes.

 

However, I'm trying to come up with a scenario in my mind where that 700 yards is enough to make a difference against Phil, and I just can't do it.