A scratch player against Phil Mickelson with a 700 yard advantage....

[Obee]

Come on. No one is going to call them out for playing as a fivesome? ;)

 

Awesome writeup.

 

Why would anyone care... its a private club that allows that level of play on "MONDAY". I am sure, nobody in that group was nearly as slow as many on Golfwrx.

 

We play FAST. 3:30 is normal for our fivesome and we are always pushing the group in front of us.

[dcmidnight]

Obee you were always my favorite poster back in the 4GEA days and your writeups have gotten even better if thats even possible.

 

Going back I dont know, 10 years or so, I've always been most jealous that you can remember so much fricking detail in your rounds.

 

Awesome writeup as always.

[Forged4ever]

I have three related stories:

 

1) I grew up caddying at The Country Club (Brookline) from 1987-1993. One of the guys who worked in the Pro Shop was Phil's teammate at ASU. He was the best player I'd ever seen at that point. He brought Phil to play. If I'm not mistaken, Phil had won the amateur and in Phoenix, but I'm not sure if he had turned pro. Phil was amazing. The difference between him and another division 1 player was night and day.

 

2) Once a summer they would set up the US Open routing. Brookline has 27 holes. The Open course is a combination. I never saw any of the best players in the club break 80.

 

Phil destroys a scratch player even giving up 700 yards.

 

3) I played Division 1 lacrosse in college, and played with many All Americans. Only one was1st team. He was incredible. His senior year there were four 1st team AA's at his position. Two of them were the Gait's. They're are arguably the two best players in the history of the game. The difference between them and my teammate was enormous.

 

There's a point to my boring you with these details. In every endeavor there're many greats, but there're only a few elite, world class, top of the mountain players.

Loved the stories and the point!!

 

Extremely Well Played Bro :)

 

Happy New Year

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

[Forged4ever]

Thanks for sharing Bro!!

 

Extremely Well Played :)

 

Continued Success!!

 

Fairways & Greens, Pins & Cups 4ever My Friend,

RP

[Obee]

So, scorewise, here's each of our "ranges" at Bear Creek, Phil from the blacks, and me from the Blues (assuming "normalish" conditions - little wind, moderate temp neither player battling an injury):

 

Phil: 62 - 75/ 65 - 70 "live-in"

 

Obee (blues): 66 -78/70-74 "live-in"

Obee (blacks): 69 - 82/73-78 "live-in"

 

That's pretty darn accurate right there. That's the real difference on a pretty difficult (75.7/146) course.

 

Any other difference in score for a true "traveling/tournament scratch" would be due to nerves, or due the the scratch player being an inconsistent player.

 

I've been as low as a +3.5, but that was 10 years ago. My LI of the las 12 months is +1.1 and I'm currently a 0.2.

 

 

 

[Chief Illiniwek]

Also will add my thanks to you Obee for sharing your story. Fantastic read!

[bmfgolf]

Does someone have a link to the other Rickie Fowler RF TP post? Saw on an early page that it was a great read.

[jimwgt26]

Does someone have a link to the other Rickie Fowler RF TP post? Saw on an early page that it was a great read.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1116159-Another-%22Pros-versus-Ams%22-thread%2E-This-time-it%27s-a-hypothetical%2E%2E%2E%2E

[Kylekoz17]

 

6) 152/114 par 3. Tiny, very shallow green. Trouble short and long.

 

OBEE: Cut GW to back right pin to 5 feet. BIRDIE, 1-UNDER

 

PHIL: 9-iron over green to back pin. Makes an amazing up and down to save PAR, 1-UNDER

 

RICKIE: Pulls his tee shot just a tad and has 25 feet EDIT: I think Rickie actually knocked it fairly close here and birdied it. BIRDIE, 4-UNDER. I was fuzzy about the details on a couple holes as the match was two weeks ago and I've played a few rounds since.

 

 

7) 437/370 par 4. Trees Left, hazard right, but not especially tight. 2nd shot is to an elevated green that can play tough.

 

OBEE: Drive down the middle. Cut 9-iron from 128 to 12 feet. Barely miss the birdie and settle for PAR, EVEN

 

PHIL: Drive down the middle. 9-iron(?) to 10 feet. BIRDIE, 2-UNDER

 

RICKIE: Drive down the middle. 9-iron(?) to 20 feet. 2 putts for PAR, 4-UNDER

 

 

Awesome read!! But just one question and maybe someone already brought this up, but you went from 1 under on 6 to even on 7 after making a par. Or am I missing something?

[mosesgolf]

I'm going with Phil.

Torrey Pines at 6300 yards for a scratch vs 7300 yards for Phil playing the South Course I'd take Phil all day long. Same goes for Bethpage etc. Phil everytime.

[Obee]

 

6) 152/114 par 3. Tiny, very shallow green. Trouble short and long.

 

OBEE: Cut GW to back right pin to 5 feet. BIRDIE, 1-UNDER

 

PHIL: 9-iron over green to back pin. Makes an amazing up and down to save PAR, 1-UNDER

 

RICKIE: Pulls his tee shot just a tad and has 25 feet EDIT: I think Rickie actually knocked it fairly close here and birdied it. BIRDIE, 4-UNDER. I was fuzzy about the details on a couple holes as the match was two weeks ago and I've played a few rounds since.

 

 

7) 437/370 par 4. Trees Left, hazard right, but not especially tight. 2nd shot is to an elevated green that can play tough.

 

OBEE: Drive down the middle. Cut 9-iron from 128 to 12 feet. Barely miss the birdie and settle for PAR, EVEN

 

PHIL: Drive down the middle. 9-iron(?) to 10 feet. BIRDIE, 2-UNDER

 

RICKIE: Drive down the middle. 9-iron(?) to 20 feet. 2 putts for PAR, 4-UNDER

 

 

Awesome read!! But just one question and maybe someone already brought this up, but you went from 1 under on 6 to even on 7 after making a par. Or am I missing something?

 

The 18-hole scores are all correct. As are almost all of the shots. I think I must have missed a short birdie putt on 3 or 6. Think it was 6.

[Pure745]

Obee - loved reading this. I think one of the main things you're not portraying enough is how HARD your course is from the tips. Reading through the shot by shot by you, Phil, and Ricky made it seem like a ho-hum walk in the park. On some of the holes it's worth noting that some of the greens are next to impossible if on the wrong tier. Some approaches to greens, impossible for a birdie look, and being off the green on many holes leave almost no chance to get up and down. My best round there was 71 last year in the Nicklaus Cup and lost to Pernice by 1. But knowing how well I played to score that from the tips, compared to some other rounds where I have made a mess show how good you really have to be playing to be at par or better there.

 

:)

[Obee]

Obee - loved reading this. I think one of the main things you're not portraying enough is how HARD your course is from the tips. Reading through the shot by shot by you, Phil, and Ricky made it seem like a ho-hum walk in the park. On some of the holes it's worth noting that some of the greens are next to impossible if on the wrong tier. Some approaches to greens, impossible for a birdie look, and being off the green on many holes leave almost no chance to get up and down. My best round there was 71 last year in the Nicklaus Cup and lost to Pernice by 1. But knowing how well I played to score that from the tips, compared to some other rounds where I have made a mess show how good you really have to be playing to be at par or better there.

 

:)

 

That's true, bud. From the tips, it's a course that any pro on any given day could shoot 74 and really not have played that poorly.

 

It's no joke to say that a pro could make double bogey on every single hole out there.

[KPH808]

Great read and a very cool story. Really enjoyed reading this.

[joey2aces]

Come on. No one is going to call them out for playing as a fivesome? ;)

 

Awesome writeup.

 

Why would anyone care... its a private club that allows that level of play on "MONDAY". I am sure, nobody in that group was nearly as slow as many on Golfwrx.

 

agreed.... now if Furyk or Tiger were in the group then people behind them would need to shave again by 15... ;)

[driveandputtmachine]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

[2putttom]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

Well spank me and call me Martha.... :swoon:

[TheCityGame]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

[vtnerf]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

[driveandputtmachine]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

 

I would say the scratch fits into the category of someone who doesn't have to play or practice multiple times a week to maintain his handicap. I would also say that a scratch played to about the top of his abilities(a scratch doesn't average even par) and that Phil played probably a bad round shooting somewhere between 3 under and even. I would guess the course rating is rough from the tips and the 700 yards makes a ton of difference as to how hard the course is. Some courses it being your home course and someone only having played it once or not at all makes a HUGE difference.

 

I would also say that is a hell of an accomplishment, to only lose by one to FIGJAM! I mean he isn't as good as he once was, but he is still Phil Freaking MIckelson. I have never had the stars align to play against/with such a big star and great player, I carry a plus handicap and haven't gotten within 3 of a guy who used to play on tour.

 

In all honesty, I did say 90 times out of 100. The player did come within 6, which is awesome.

[fowlerscousin]

watch the crossfield/westwood video. crossfield is probably better than scratch and was beaten soundly playing the same tees. but if crossfield had a 700 yard advantage i just dont see him losing in that sample size of 1. its close and the scratch player does have a fighting chance.

[pappaf2]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

 

I would say the scratch fits into the category of someone who doesn't have to play or practice multiple times a week to maintain his handicap. I would also say that a scratch played to about the top of his abilities(a scratch doesn't average even par) and that Phil played probably a bad round shooting somewhere between 3 under and even. I would guess the course rating is rough from the tips and the 700 yards makes a ton of difference as to how hard the course is. Some courses it being your home course and someone only having played it once or not at all makes a HUGE difference.

 

I would also say that is a hell of an accomplishment, to only lose by one to FIGJAM! I mean he isn't as good as he once was, but he is still Phil Freaking MIckelson. I have never had the stars align to play against/with such a big star and great player, I carry a plus handicap and haven't gotten within 3 of a guy who used to play on tour.

 

In all honesty, I did say 90 times out of 100. The player did come within 6, which is awesome.

 

Did you read Obee's post and the story of what actually happened in this real life scenario?

Here is a link:

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1273358-a-scratch-player-against-phil-mickelson-with-a-700-yard-advantage/page__st__60#entry12807362

[DavePelz4]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

Well spank me and call me Martha.... :swoon:

You wish!

[golfer523]

the key would be defense...if the scratch can get phil to the 2-4 footer range every hole than i like his chances lol yip yip hooray!

 

jk phil prob beat him with right handed clubs!

[PJ72]

Great post Obee! I think this could be my favourite story and thread on the site. Thanks for sharing.

 

Really great scoring too, Obee, just a shot behind Phil was it? Although it seemed like Phil was having a slight off day, or perhaps didn't know the course as well as he would in a tournament. When he shot over that green and had to go back and replay the shot - do you think that was just a yardage error? Were you hitting your second shots from around the same place on the fairway?

 

My impressions of this round is that the tour pros always hit the ball well, like solid centre strikes but they're not knocking out the pins like some on here would like you to believe. They make mistakes with yardage; don't get up and down from anywhere; don't hole every 10 footer; solid strikes are a given but they often miss left, right and long; they don't break course records on non tournament set-ups.

 

Maybe they need the competitive juices flowing to really get them going - I mean in a tournament with all the hullabaloo that goes with that (crowd, TV, money etc), they must get fired up.

 

Also, what a great pair of guys Ricky and Phil are, playing a casual round with a couple strangers, how cool is that? I wouldn't have imagined that a couple of current (what, top 20 players?) would just rock up to a course and involve a couple of members. Awesome.

 

Great stuff. (sorry for all the questions, I don't want answers to them all!)

[Obee]

Great post Obee! I think this could be my favourite story and thread on the site. Thanks for sharing.

 

Really great scoring too, Obee, just a shot behind Phil was it? Although it seemed like Phil was having a slight off day, or perhaps didn't know the course as well as he would in a tournament. When he shot over that green and had to go back and replay the shot - do you think that was just a yardage error? Were you hitting your second shots from around the same place on the fairway

 

Yes, were were pretty close to each other on that hole. Phil's miss was one that all good players hit from time to time: He was aiming for a cut, and just close the face down on the ball and the ball went longer than he was trying to hit it. He got screwed with a bad cartpath bounce, or he probably makes pare and maybe (10%?) even birdie, though he would have head a really tough up and down.

 

My impressions of this round is that the tour pros always hit the ball well, like solid centre strikes but they're not knocking out the pins like some on here would like you to believe. They make mistakes with yardage; don't get up and down from anywhere; don't hole every 10 footer; solid strikes are a given but they often miss left, right and long; they don't break course records on non tournament set-ups.

 

As a previous commenter who has played our course mentioned: My home course is very, very difficult (75.1/146) and quirky -- especially some of the green complexes. We can make it play as tough as we want, and on any given day, there are usually four or five pin positions that give even the best players in the world a tough time.

 

Maybe they need the competitive juices flowing to really get them going - I mean in a tournament with all the hullabaloo that goes with that (crowd, TV, money etc), they must get fired up.

 

No, the course is just really difficult for the uninitiated (which Phil was). Remember that Rickie did shoot 67 that day, a very good score (and has shot as low as 62 there (the course record is 61 by a 2nd stage Q-school guy a few years back), but Rickie has also shot 73, 74, 75 there also. Having been at the course many times when he's played, I'd say Rickie's average score there would be 67ish, which is ridiculous if you were to actually play the course from the tips.

 

Also, what a great pair of guys Ricky and Phil are, playing a casual round with a couple strangers, how cool is that? I wouldn't have imagined that a couple of current (what, top 20 players?) would just rock up to a course and involve a couple of members. Awesome.

 

It used to be Rickie's home course when he lived in California. They didn't exactly "rock up" and play. ;-)

 

Great stuff. (sorry for all the questions, I don't want answers to them all!)

[Obee]

Good job Obee. I knew the story and stayed on the sidelines as this thread developed.

Obviously its' better for Obee to leave the course name out of it, so lets' respect that.

One thing I know though, the par fives were a big advantage for the pros length, but on many

of the par fours, I would imagine the approach shots weren't that much different?

 

Good story!

 

The approach shots were, on average, pretty close. Most of the holes I was right there with them, but a few, if I missed it and they really let the shaft out, I was well behind, even from the blues.

 

They carry the ball 285 - 295. I carry the ball 235 - 250. They are consistently 40-60 yards by me unless they hit 3-wood or hybrid on a hole that pinches or where driver just doesn't make sense.

 

One of my buddies in the group has 110ish clubhead speed, so if he really caught one, then he would outdrive both of them from the blues on most holes.

[Pepperturbo]

Obee - loved reading this. I think one of the main things you're not portraying enough is how HARD your course is from the tips. Reading through the shot by shot by you, Phil, and Ricky made it seem like a ho-hum walk in the park. On some of the holes it's worth noting that some of the greens are next to impossible if on the wrong tier. Some approaches to greens, impossible for a birdie look, and being off the green on many holes leave almost no chance to get up and down. My best round there was 71 last year in the Nicklaus Cup and lost to Pernice by 1. But knowing how well I played to score that from the tips, compared to some other rounds where I have made a mess show how good you really have to be playing to be at par or better there.

 

:)

 

That's true, bud. From the tips, it's a course that any pro on any given day could shoot 74 and really not have played that poorly.

 

It's no joke to say that a pro could make double bogey on every single hole out there.

 

I agree.. There's a reason it's history includes US Open and PGA qualifying, and a Q-rd where only a member broke par.

[rangersgoalie]

Scores at Champions Q school were pretty high there

[driveandputtmachine]

There isn't even a debate here.

 

I played a lot with Hugh Royer III (won multiple times on the Nike and played multiple years on the PGA Tour)

I have played with both Scott Brown and Kevin Kisner

 

I was a +0.8 t the time. We did play the same tees but I could not even get close. I am experienced in Tournament golf having played in College and US and State amateur tournaments. The last round I remember with each.......

 

Hugh....we played a round where I played really well grinding each hole, I shot 1 under. Hugh screwed around, hitting 7 iron from 100, to not really paying attention to some putts and shot 4 under not even trying.

 

Kisner and Brown.....played the same tees and I played OK, grinding every hole to a three over for me. Neither of them were playing "hard" and both shot 5 under or better, this was before either were full time on the PGA. Now they are even better.

 

There is NO CHANCE a scratch (USGA official handicap) comes within 6 of Phil unless they pull a Tonya Harding on him. Or the scratch plays the round of his life and Phil has mind altering drugs/injury/only one club(some major penalty) or one of the worst rounds of his life and then the scratch may have a chance. Phil wins it 90 times out of 100.

 

Now if you are talking a national amateur player, 700 yards and the amateurs home course vs Phil then there is a much better chance. Or a scratch who rarely plays, but was a really good amateur, and could be much better if he practiced it is similar. Your scratch who practices/plays multiple times a week to maintain a scratch has no chance.

What if I told you the scratch came within one stroke of Phil, and Phil picked up on one hole? Would you think I was CRAAAAZY!!!!!

 

I would say the scratch fits into the category of someone who doesn't have to play or practice multiple times a week to maintain his handicap. I would also say that a scratch played to about the top of his abilities(a scratch doesn't average even par) and that Phil played probably a bad round shooting somewhere between 3 under and even. I would guess the course rating is rough from the tips and the 700 yards makes a ton of difference as to how hard the course is. Some courses it being your home course and someone only having played it once or not at all makes a HUGE difference.

 

I would also say that is a hell of an accomplishment, to only lose by one to FIGJAM! I mean he isn't as good as he once was, but he is still Phil Freaking MIckelson. I have never had the stars align to play against/with such a big star and great player, I carry a plus handicap and haven't gotten within 3 of a guy who used to play on tour.

 

In all honesty, I did say 90 times out of 100. The player did come within 6, which is awesome.

 

Did you read Obee's post and the story of what actually happened in this real life scenario?

Here is a link:

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry12807362

 

I have now. I have never played with Phil or any other big name like him. I am going off what I saw from two up and coming players(Brown and Kisner) and one player that is over 50 and never won on the PGA tour but can still flat out play. I am a + handicap(right around scratch) and do not work at it. Every once in awhile I can throw up a 68 or so, but the chances are that most PGA Tour pros easily put that up as well.

 

Of course I have seen them play bad, and on a long course that is an average course in America they play bad on it and still shoot a couple under par. It sounds like the course in question is not such a course. It sounds a lot like Echelon north of Atlanta with a 74.9/150 rating and almost 7100 yards from one set of tees up from the tips. At the tips Echelon plays 77.8/154 at 7550 yards. Until you have played it 5 or 6 times it can jump and bite anyone very easily.